---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/24/06: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:41 AM - Re: heavy wing (Roger Anderson) 2. 10:53 AM - Re: heavy wing (=?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Guerner?=) 3. 11:12 AM - Re: heavy wing (=?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Guerner?=) 4. 01:46 PM - Re: heavy wing (R.C.Harrison) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:41:09 AM PST US From: "Roger Anderson" Subject: Re: Europa-List: heavy wing R=C3=A9mi, I have had a similar problem of a pronounced inclination to roll to the left on a particular day. Likewise I could find no reason and I haven't had a re-occurrence. I rig my aircraft every day and I put it down to the flap pin not engaging fully on one side on that particular day, such that the flap was slightly more outboard than it would normally be. I always make a point now of pulling the flaps firmly up against the fuselage as soon as the wing is engaged. Kind regards, Roger (G-BXTD) ----- Original Message ----- From: R=C3=A9mi Guerner To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: Europa-List: heavy wing Hello all, During my vacation in the french Alps, I had the following incident: after take of from a rough mountain strip, I felt a strong roll tendency to the right, just after having retracted the landing gear. The airplane was controllable with a significant effort on the stick. I first thought I had a control jamming but in fact there were no jamming, but only a heavy wing feeling. Rolling to the left was very difficult. Looking at the control surfaces, I could not see anything unusual. Reducing the airspeed decreased the effort to keep the wings level. Cycling the landing gear / flaps did not change the situation. I decided not to land on the closest airstrip but instead fly to a bigger airfield were I new I could find help. After half an hour of a stressful flight and a direct approach in order to avoid turning left in the pattern, the landing was uneventful. On the ground the controls were absolutely normal. I decided I would not take off again without having checked the integrity of all the roll control system. With the help of friends, we removed the wings so that I could inspect all control rods, bellcranks, torque tubes, bearings and quick connect system. We found absolutely nothing. We put the plane back together and off I went. Everything was back to normal. I flew a dozen times since that day without experiencing the problem again. What could have caused this heavy wing? I see one possibility: during the take off roll, a stone may have been thrown by the main wheel or outrigger wheel and ended up in the left outrigger mechanism or the left flap slot, therefore preventing the left flap to fully retract and causing the airplane to roll to the right. Cycling the gear did not dislodge the stone but the bump on landing did. Has anyone experienced a similar problem ? Remi Guerner F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 425 hours ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:53:41 AM PST US From: =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Guerner?= Subject: Europa-List: Re: heavy wing William, I confirm there were nothing like an aileron up and the other one down. The ailerons are very effective in the Europa, so a few millimeter deflection was probably enough to keep the wing level. A few milimeter cannot be detected visually in flight. I cannot be sure the roll tendency was present with the flaps down, as my judgment was disturbed by the stress. I believe now it was not. I do not have the speed kit fairing and I agree this would prevent foreign objects to jam the outrigger mechanism. I am planning to fit them one day. Regards Remi Remi, I am not offering any suggestions, but I am intrigued as to your description of the control surfaces looking normal. When you looked at the control surfaces with the flaps up and with the heavy right wing, were the ailerons in line with the flaps and the wing tips on both wings, or was the right aileron slightly down and the left one up to counteract the tendency to roll right? With the flaps / wheel down for landing was the aircraft back in balance? If the left flap had not fully retracted, I would have thought the aileron and flap would not have lined up, particularly on the left wing. If it were a stone that had caused the problem, perhaps speed kit fairings would have guarded the hinges and outrigger mechanisms against that. I presume you have not fitted them? Best wishes, William ----- Original Message ----- From: R=C3=A9mi Guerner To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: Europa-List: heavy wing Hello all, During my vacation in the french Alps, I had the following incident: after take of from a rough mountain strip, I felt a strong roll tendency to the right, just after having retracted the landing gear. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:12:39 AM PST US From: =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Guerner?= Subject: Europa-List: Re: heavy wing Graham, I am not sure now that the roll was present with the flaps/gear down, probably not. No mud , no ice for sure. Remi If the roll was present with flaps/gear down, then that would indicate right flap not fully down. Flaps up indicates left flap not fully up. What about the ailerons? Mud on the bottom surface of the right aileron? Mud on the leading edge? Any ice about? Graham Rmi Guerner wrote: > Hello all, > > During my vacation in the french Alps, I had the following incident: after > take of from a rough mountain strip, I felt a strong roll tendency to the > right, just after having retracted the landing gear. The airplane was > controllable with a significant effort on the stick. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:46:18 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: heavy wing Hi! Remi/Roger. I have had occasions, when rigging, that the flap pin hasn=92t engaged but my clearances between flap outboard end and inboard end of the ailerons are tight and they both foul up when pushed together making the complaint obvious to the feel on the control stick, I could imagine it would make for very stiff control. However in my case even if the pin hasn=92t engaged the flap extension has a taper tube down which the drive shaft locates for single man rigging so the flap would still drive anyway. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Anderson Sent: 24 August 2006 09:39 Subject: Re: Europa-List: heavy wing R=E9mi, I have had a similar problem of a pronounced inclination to roll to the left on a particular day. Likewise I could find no reason and I haven't had a re-occurrence. I rig my aircraft every day and I put it down to the flap pin not engaging fully on one side on that particular day, such that the flap was slightly more outboard than it would normally be. I always make a point now of pulling the flaps firmly up against the fuselage as soon as the wing is engaged. Kind regards, Roger (G-BXTD) ----- Original Message ----- From: R=E9mi Guerner Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: Europa-List: heavy wing Hello all, During my vacation in the french Alps, I had the following incident: after take of from a rough mountain strip, I felt a strong roll tendency to the right, just after having retracted the landing gear. The airplane was controllable with a significant effort on the stick. I first thought I had a control jamming but in fact there were no jamming, but only a heavy wing feeling. Rolling to the left was very difficult. Looking at the control surfaces, I could not see anything unusual. Reducing the airspeed decreased the effort to keep the wings level. Cycling the landing gear / flaps did not change the situation. I decided not to land on the closest airstrip but instead fly to a bigger airfield were I new I could find help. After half an hour of a stressful flight and a direct approach in order to avoid turning left in the pattern, the landing was uneventful. On the ground the controls were absolutely normal. I decided I would not take off again without having checked the integrity of all the roll control system. With the help of friends, we removed the wings so that I could inspect all control rods, bellcranks, torque tubes, bearings and quick connect system. We found absolutely nothing. We put the plane back together and off I went. Everything was back to normal. I flew a dozen times since that day without experiencing the problem again. What could have caused this heavy wing? I see one possibility: during the take off roll, a stone may have been thrown by the main wheel or outrigger wheel and ended up in the left outrigger mechanism or the left flap slot, therefore preventing the left flap to fully retract and causing the airplane to roll to the right. Cycling the gear did not dislodge the stone but the bump on landing did. Has anyone experienced a similar problem ? Remi Guerner F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 425 hours