---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/05/06: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:22 AM - Re: Monday DOTH (or Tuesday?) (Richard Holder) 2. 01:55 AM - Re: Fuel smell (G-IANI) 3. 01:56 AM - Re: Monday DOTH (or Tuesday?) (William Mills) 4. 02:14 AM - Re: Fuel smell (G-IANI) 5. 07:06 AM - Re: Re: Dodgy Regulator? (BEBERRY@aol.com) 6. 08:56 AM - Landing Lights (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu) 7. 09:33 AM - Re: Skydrive on/off control (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 8. 09:58 AM - Re: Re: Dodgy Regulator? (Mike Baker) 9. 10:40 AM - Re: PROBABLE SPAM> oil lines (Paul Stewart) 10. 11:16 AM - Reflexed control surfaces (Fred Klein) 11. 11:21 AM - Re: Re: Dodgy Regulator? (Alexander Kaarsberg) 12. 11:21 AM - Re: Re: Dodgy Regulator? (William Daniell) 13. 11:34 AM - Re: Landing Lights (Karl Heindl) 14. 12:11 PM - Re: Landing Lights (Fred Klein) 15. 12:17 PM - Re: *** SPAM *** Re: Skydrive on/off control (Duncan McFadyean) 16. 12:23 PM - Re: *** SPAM *** Re: Landing Lights (Duncan McFadyean) 17. 01:19 PM - Re: Skydrive on/off control (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 18. 02:54 PM - Re: *** SPAM *** Re: Skydrive on/off control (Duncan McFadyean) 19. 03:02 PM - Re: Dodgy Regulator? (steve v.) 20. 03:16 PM - Re: PROBABLE SPAM> Re: Landing Lights (Paul McAllister) 21. 03:48 PM - Re: Re: Dodgy Regulator? (BEBERRY@aol.com) 22. 05:03 PM - Re: PROBABLE SPAM> Re: Landing Lights (Karl Heindl) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:22:47 AM PST US From: Richard Holder Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monday DOTH (or Tuesday?) --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder Richard Iddon wrote: > 07:45 Monday. Low cloud at Blackpool this morning and rain coming > across the NW later today so will defer DOTH until Tuesday. > Richard Iddon G-RIXS (still vibrating) Is this still happening ? And ... What is vibrating ? Richard Holder G-OWWW ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:55:43 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel smell --> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Singleton Sent: 04 September 2006 21:30 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel smell --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton --> Karl & everyone A few of us were talking about this at the PFA Rally couple of weeks ago, someone pointed out that there is another possible source of smells. The tank breather. When the aircraft climbs, air in the tank and breather system has to expand. When refueling some fuel gets pushed into the breather pipe, (I've seen it many times.) After take off any air trapped in the tank will expand as the aircraft climbs, the only way it can do that is up the tank breather so fuel will get pushed out the breather, hence the blue stains on the fuselage. The same thing happens if the aircraft is refueled cold, then the sun comes out and we warm up. Paul McA and I put the breather syphon break into the top of the XS filler trunk which should prevent any fuel being expelled. Graham Karl Heindl wrote: > Guys, > Before blaming the carb heater for the fuel smell, why not be 100 % > sure before adding mods. Just disable the coolant flow by putting a > clamp on one hose for one or two test flights, and get the engine nice > and hot. > I have fuel smells, too. But in my case one source is the old hoses, > some of which I will change at the next annual. > Karl ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:49 AM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monday DOTH (or Tuesday?) --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" Richard is on his way to Blackpool at the moment (9.55), so he will go to Enstone if it is flyable. XC Forecast for Blackpool shows low level crud at present, but may very well burn off soon. Regards, William Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Holder" Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 9:18 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monday DOTH (or Tuesday?) > --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder > > Richard Iddon wrote: > >> 07:45 Monday. Low cloud at Blackpool this morning and rain coming across >> the NW later today so will defer DOTH until Tuesday. > >> Richard Iddon G-RIXS (still vibrating) > > Is this still happening ? > > And ... > > What is vibrating ? > > Richard Holder > G-OWWW > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:14:41 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel smell --> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" Graham has said "When refuelling some fuel gets pushed into the breather pipe, (I've seen it many times.) After take off any air trapped in the tank will expand as the aircraft climbs, the only way it can do that is up the tank breather so fuel will get pushed out the breather, hence the blue stains on the fuselage. The same thing happens if the aircraft is refuelled cold, then the sun comes out and we warm up." My recent experience with G-IANI and G-IRON is that the smell is from fuel trapped in the breather. Remember the inside end of the breather is turned up so any fuel which enters is trapped in the "U" created before the breather turns up to the roof (or top of filler neck). This means the connection of the F09B fitting to the vent tube is wet with fuel for long periods. Even with a good clip the seal between the F09B and the plastic tube is very poor (this seems to be because of the way the F09B is machined). We realised this when the joint was actually wet with fuel when G-IRON was accidentally slightly over filled. We have replaced the lower end of the vent pipe (from the F09B fitting to half way up the filler neck) with rubber pipe which seals well on to the F09B. This introduces another connector (and so potential source of leak) but seams to have cured the problem. Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:24 AM PST US From: BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Dodgy Regulator? What is a 'DUKE' please? Patrcick ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:56 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Landing Lights From: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu There are substantial differences (orders of magnitude) in light flux between what is useful as a recognition or anti-collision light and a useful landing light. I have been looking for years at automotive auxillary halogen lights (the 35 or 50 watt) variety and even bought two different pairs to evaluate. In my opinion, they are not useful as actual landing lights. Landing lights like the GE 4509 PAR are just much more bright and appropriately collimated to the specific task by the reflector housing. I mentioned last year that Lo Presti Speed Merchants have GA (TSO quality for retrofit to commercial) Xenon systems for approximately $350 for the homebuilt version. The offer is still good as of Oshkosh 06. Xenon is really the best way to go at present, very long life, vibration resistant, a quarter or less current draw vs the old GE, and no RFI with appropriate shielding. Certainly for a Nose Gear mount, Xenon would be first choice. Ira N224XS ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:27 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Hi, We have a mono-wheel XS with 912S and have had the Skydrive carb heat since first flight, 5 years and 450 hours ago. At first we had the carb heat on all the time, but after a year or so installed the supplied water valve because of problems with hot starts in warm weather. Installing the valve (and turning off carb heat during the taxi back) cured our hot start problem. Once we had the valve installed, we were able to carefully measure time to climb as a check of any lost performance due to carb heat on vs off. There was no measurable difference in climb performance. Also, once we had the ability to fly with carb heat off, we found that we could get carb icing, on the ground and in the air, even on what seemed fairly moderate days. When the carb temp came down to a few degrees (C) above zero, carb ice was a definite possibility. Turning on the carb heat water cured the rough running in seconds. As others have mentioned, we mounted our carb heat water valve on top of the port side foot well, with relatively short water tubing runs to the valve, and ran a stiff wire through the firewall for control from the cockpit. Regards, Terry Seaver -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:09 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control --> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" Tim, That is what I thought, but it is actually not true. When on the ground, and you have a long taxi run, especially on a grass field and/or on a very hot day, the hot coolant will cause the fuel to boil in the carburator bowls. You can easily verify this by looking at the clear carb vent tube through the stbd cowling door, and you will see the fuel bubbling up into the airbox. You will not be able to start your engine at this stage as the carbs are flooded. I've proven it by putting a clamp on the coolant hose to stop circulation. The local Rotax agent educated me about the Skydrive. He also claims that because the added collar moves the carburator further from the engine, it contributes to vibration problems. And lastly, I don't believe that hot air and hot fuel going into the combustion, does not affect engine performance. You have a 914, so you wouldn't know. Best regards, karl >From: "Tim Ward" >To: >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control >Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 13:45:58 +1200 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Ward" > >Karl, >Just keep the carb heat on all the time, no performance penalty. Having >a switch is just another thing to go wrong and fix! >Cheers, >Tim >Tim Ward >12 Waiwetu Street, >Fendalton, >Christchurch, 8052 >New Zealand > >Ph +64 3 3515166 >Mobile 021 0640221 >ward.t@xtra.co.nz >----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Heindl" >To: >Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:20 PM >Subject: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control > > >>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" >> >> >> >>Does anyone know of an inline valve, controlled electrically, for >>controlling the coolant flow in the Skydrive carb heater ? >>I know they exist for central heating systems, but are the wrong voltage. >> >>thanks in advance, >> >>Karl >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:58:49 AM PST US From: Mike Baker Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Dodgy Regulator? --> Europa-List message posted by: Mike Baker http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft%20performance/Beech/duke.htm --- BEBERRY@aol.com wrote: > What is a 'DUKE' please? > > Patrcick > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:03 AM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Re: PROBABLE SPAM> Europa-List: oil lines Thanks Paul - always an inspiration taking a wander through your web pages. Paul On 5 Sep 2006, at 02:52, Paul McAllister wrote: > Paul, > > Take a look at http://europa363.versadev.com/ under Jan 2004. 2.5 > years / 500 hours on the hoses don't seem to be showing any signs > of stress. > > Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa- > list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Stewart > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:17 PM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: PROBABLE SPAM> Europa-List: oil lines > > Can anyone suggest how to route the oil line from tank banjo to the > oil pump - I guess staying as far away from the stbd exhaust pipes > > > Regards > > Paul Stewart > G-GIDY > > > PS 914 installation > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:23 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Reflexed control surfaces From: Fred Klein --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein I've noted posting which advocate reflexing ailerons to a position (I believe) 1/2" above the wingtip trailing edge. My question is when doing so, is it also advisable to set the flap control linkage to allow for the same reflexing of the flaps? Fred A194 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Dodgy Regulator? From: "Alexander Kaarsberg" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alexander Kaarsberg" > What is a 'DUKE' please? > > Patrcick > Ducati, the motorbike from which the voltage regulator for the Rotax comes. Alex ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:15 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: RE: Dodgy Regulator? Oh please...Ducati :-) _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BEBERRY@aol.com Sent: 05 September, 2006 09:04 Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Dodgy Regulator? What is a 'DUKE' please? Patrcick ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:09 AM PST US From: "Karl Heindl" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Landing Lights --> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" I remember John Hurst saying: what do you need landing lights for ? He was a frequent night flyer. Why carry that extra junk when 99.9 % of the time you are flying at daytime anyway. And you are unlikely to land on an unlit runway. do not archive >From: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: Landing Lights >Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:55:33 -0400 > > There are substantial differences (orders of magnitude) in light flux >between what is useful >as a recognition or anti-collision light and a useful landing light. I >have been looking for years >at automotive auxillary halogen lights (the 35 or 50 watt) variety and >even bought two >different pairs to evaluate. In my opinion, they are not useful as actual >landing lights. > >Landing lights like the GE 4509 PAR are just much more bright and >appropriately collimated >to the specific task by the reflector housing. > >I mentioned last year that Lo Presti Speed Merchants have GA (TSO quality >for retrofit to commercial) >Xenon systems for approximately $350 for the homebuilt version. The offer >is still good as of Oshkosh 06. >Xenon is really the best way to go at present, very long life, vibration >resistant, a quarter or less current >draw vs the old GE, and no RFI with appropriate shielding. > >Certainly for a Nose Gear mount, Xenon would be first choice. > >Ira N224XS ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Landing Lights From: Fred Klein --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein The strips I fly into w/ lighted runways typically do not have lighted taxiways, and even where the taxiways are lit up, I would not venture into them without landing/taxi lights on my aircraft, for situational awareness if nothing else...consequently, while installing the wing tip LED position/strobe lights by www.creativair.com, I have opted to include their combo units which include 75 w. halogen landing/taxi lights. Fred Ai94 do not archive On Tuesday, September 5, 2006, at 11:33 AM, Karl Heindl wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" > > > I remember John Hurst saying: what do you need landing lights for ? He > was a frequent night flyer. > Why carry that extra junk when 99.9 % of the time you are flying at > daytime anyway. And you are unlikely to land on an unlit runway. > > do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:13 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** RE: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <> I thought ice was a possibility at any carb temp below 20C? Have you experienced carb ice at carb body temps much above 0C too? Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 5:32 PM Subject: *** SPAM *** RE: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" > > > Hi, > > We have a mono-wheel XS with 912S and have had the Skydrive carb heat > since first flight, 5 years and 450 hours ago. At first we had the carb > heat on all the time, but after a year or so installed the supplied > water valve because of problems with hot starts in warm weather. > Installing the valve (and turning off carb heat during the taxi back) > cured our hot start problem. > Once we had the valve installed, we were able to carefully measure > time to climb as a check of any lost performance due to carb heat on vs > off. There was no measurable difference in climb performance. > Also, once we had the ability to fly with carb heat off, we found > that we could get carb icing, on the ground and in the air, even on what > seemed fairly moderate days. When the carb temp came down to a few > degrees (C) above zero, carb ice was a definite possibility. Turning on > the carb heat water cured the rough running in seconds. > As others have mentioned, we mounted our carb heat water valve on top > of the port side foot well, with relatively short water tubing runs to > the valve, and ran a stiff wire through the firewall for control from > the cockpit. > > Regards, > Terry Seaver > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:09 AM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" > > > Tim, > > That is what I thought, but it is actually not true. > When on the ground, and you have a long taxi run, especially on a grass > field and/or on a very hot day, the hot coolant will cause the fuel to > boil in the carburator bowls. You can easily verify this by looking at > the clear carb vent tube through the stbd cowling door, and you will see > the fuel bubbling up into the airbox. You will not be able to start your > engine at this stage as the carbs are flooded. I've proven it by putting > a clamp on the coolant hose to stop circulation. The local Rotax agent > educated me about the Skydrive. He also claims that because the added > collar moves the carburator further from the engine, it contributes to > vibration problems. > And lastly, I don't believe that hot air and hot fuel going into the > combustion, does not affect engine performance. You have a 914, so you > wouldn't know. > > Best regards, > > karl > > >>From: "Tim Ward" >>To: >>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control >>Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 13:45:58 +1200 >> >>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Ward" >> >>Karl, >>Just keep the carb heat on all the time, no performance penalty. Having > >>a switch is just another thing to go wrong and fix! >>Cheers, >>Tim >>Tim Ward >>12 Waiwetu Street, >>Fendalton, >>Christchurch, 8052 >>New Zealand >> >>Ph +64 3 3515166 >>Mobile 021 0640221 >>ward.t@xtra.co.nz >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Heindl" >>To: >>Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:20 PM >>Subject: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control >> >> >>>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" >>> >>> >>> >>>Does anyone know of an inline valve, controlled electrically, for >>>controlling the coolant flow in the Skydrive carb heater ? >>>I know they exist for central heating systems, but are the wrong > voltage. >>> >>>thanks in advance, >>> >>>Karl >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:23:36 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** RE: Europa-List: Landing Lights --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" Because "nine out of ten" air traffic controllers say that aircraft are far more visible with a landing light than a strobe in a daytime circuit . Or was that because strobes are useless except in twilight? That would be another debate! Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Heindl" Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 7:33 PM Subject: *** SPAM *** RE: Europa-List: Landing Lights > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" > > > I remember John Hurst saying: what do you need landing lights for ? He was > a frequent night flyer. > Why carry that extra junk when 99.9 % of the time you are flying at > daytime anyway. And you are unlikely to land on an unlit runway. > > do not archive > > >>From: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu >>To: europa-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Europa-List: Landing Lights >>Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:55:33 -0400 >> >> There are substantial differences (orders of magnitude) in light flux >>between what is useful >>as a recognition or anti-collision light and a useful landing light. I >>have been looking for years >>at automotive auxillary halogen lights (the 35 or 50 watt) variety and >>even bought two >>different pairs to evaluate. In my opinion, they are not useful as actual >>landing lights. >> >>Landing lights like the GE 4509 PAR are just much more bright and >>appropriately collimated >>to the specific task by the reflector housing. >> >>I mentioned last year that Lo Presti Speed Merchants have GA (TSO quality >>for retrofit to commercial) >>Xenon systems for approximately $350 for the homebuilt version. The offer >>is still good as of Oshkosh 06. >>Xenon is really the best way to go at present, very long life, vibration >>resistant, a quarter or less current >>draw vs the old GE, and no RFI with appropriate shielding. >> >>Certainly for a Nose Gear mount, Xenon would be first choice. >> >>Ira N224XS > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:56 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Hi Duncan, We did not have carb ice very often, and as I recall, the carb temp was always just a few degrees above 0 degC. I am not an expert in this area, but I believe you are referring to air temp when you say 20C. The carb temp (at certain throttle settings) associated with icing would be close to zero due to the venturi effect. We can see the carb temp change considerably (5+ degC delta, as I recall) as we go from cruise power to idle, for example. The carb temp gauge we are using is the one that came with our Skydrive kit, and plugs into the supplied heating block. Regards, Terry Seaver -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Duncan McFadyean Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 12:16 PM Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** RE: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" --> <> I thought ice was a possibility at any carb temp below 20C? Have you experienced carb ice at carb body temps much above 0C too? Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 5:32 PM Subject: *** SPAM *** RE: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" > > > Hi, > > We have a mono-wheel XS with 912S and have had the Skydrive carb heat > since first flight, 5 years and 450 hours ago. At first we had the carb > heat on all the time, but after a year or so installed the supplied > water valve because of problems with hot starts in warm weather. > Installing the valve (and turning off carb heat during the taxi back) > cured our hot start problem. > Once we had the valve installed, we were able to carefully measure > time to climb as a check of any lost performance due to carb heat on vs > off. There was no measurable difference in climb performance. > Also, once we had the ability to fly with carb heat off, we found > that we could get carb icing, on the ground and in the air, even on what > seemed fairly moderate days. When the carb temp came down to a few > degrees (C) above zero, carb ice was a definite possibility. Turning on > the carb heat water cured the rough running in seconds. > As others have mentioned, we mounted our carb heat water valve on top > of the port side foot well, with relatively short water tubing runs to > the valve, and ran a stiff wire through the firewall for control from > the cockpit. > > Regards, > Terry Seaver > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:09 AM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" > > > Tim, > > That is what I thought, but it is actually not true. > When on the ground, and you have a long taxi run, especially on a grass > field and/or on a very hot day, the hot coolant will cause the fuel to > boil in the carburator bowls. You can easily verify this by looking at > the clear carb vent tube through the stbd cowling door, and you will see > the fuel bubbling up into the airbox. You will not be able to start your > engine at this stage as the carbs are flooded. I've proven it by putting > a clamp on the coolant hose to stop circulation. The local Rotax agent > educated me about the Skydrive. He also claims that because the added > collar moves the carburator further from the engine, it contributes to > vibration problems. > And lastly, I don't believe that hot air and hot fuel going into the > combustion, does not affect engine performance. You have a 914, so you > wouldn't know. > > Best regards, > > karl > > >>From: "Tim Ward" >>To: >>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control >>Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 13:45:58 +1200 >> >>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Ward" >> >>Karl, >>Just keep the carb heat on all the time, no performance penalty. Having > >>a switch is just another thing to go wrong and fix! >>Cheers, >>Tim >>Tim Ward >>12 Waiwetu Street, >>Fendalton, >>Christchurch, 8052 >>New Zealand >> >>Ph +64 3 3515166 >>Mobile 021 0640221 >>ward.t@xtra.co.nz >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Heindl" >>To: >>Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:20 PM >>Subject: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control >> >> >>>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" >>> >>> >>> >>>Does anyone know of an inline valve, controlled electrically, for >>>controlling the coolant flow in the Skydrive carb heater ? >>>I know they exist for central heating systems, but are the wrong > voltage. >>> >>>thanks in advance, >>> >>>Karl >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:21 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** RE: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" That's odd. I've never seen my carb temp go below 18C (+6C gauge correction = 24C); the probe is bonded in to the side of the carb. But I don't have the carb heater. Rather, the proximity of the (Classic style) exhaust header and under-cowl air intake. I'd like to take air from outside, (which results in +400rpm on staticengine speed!) but haven't had the confidence that this would not result in icing. I seem to recall others reporting icing at much higher carb body temps. Your data is useful. Thanks. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 8:50 PM Subject: *** SPAM *** RE: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" > > > Hi Duncan, > > We did not have carb ice very often, and as I recall, the carb temp was > always just a few degrees above 0 degC. I am not an expert in this > area, but I believe you are referring to air temp when you say 20C. The > carb temp (at certain throttle settings) associated with icing would be > close to zero due to the venturi effect. We can see the carb temp > change considerably (5+ degC delta, as I recall) as we go from cruise > power to idle, for example. The carb temp gauge we are using is the one > that came with our Skydrive kit, and plugs into the supplied heating > block. > > Regards, > Terry Seaver > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Duncan > McFadyean > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 12:16 PM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** RE: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" > --> > > < degrees (C) above zero, carb ice was a definite possibility.>> > > I thought ice was a possibility at any carb temp below 20C? > Have you experienced carb ice at carb body temps much above 0C too? > > Duncan McF. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 5:32 PM > Subject: *** SPAM *** RE: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" >> >> >> Hi, >> >> We have a mono-wheel XS with 912S and have had the Skydrive carb > heat >> since first flight, 5 years and 450 hours ago. At first we had the > carb >> heat on all the time, but after a year or so installed the supplied >> water valve because of problems with hot starts in warm weather. >> Installing the valve (and turning off carb heat during the taxi back) >> cured our hot start problem. >> Once we had the valve installed, we were able to carefully measure >> time to climb as a check of any lost performance due to carb heat on > vs >> off. There was no measurable difference in climb performance. >> Also, once we had the ability to fly with carb heat off, we found >> that we could get carb icing, on the ground and in the air, even on > what >> seemed fairly moderate days. When the carb temp came down to a few >> degrees (C) above zero, carb ice was a definite possibility. Turning > on >> the carb heat water cured the rough running in seconds. >> As others have mentioned, we mounted our carb heat water valve on > top >> of the port side foot well, with relatively short water tubing runs to >> the valve, and ran a stiff wire through the firewall for control from >> the cockpit. >> >> Regards, >> Terry Seaver >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl > Heindl >> Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:09 AM >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control >> >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" >> >> >> Tim, >> >> That is what I thought, but it is actually not true. >> When on the ground, and you have a long taxi run, especially on a > grass >> field and/or on a very hot day, the hot coolant will cause the fuel to >> boil in the carburator bowls. You can easily verify this by looking at >> the clear carb vent tube through the stbd cowling door, and you will > see >> the fuel bubbling up into the airbox. You will not be able to start > your >> engine at this stage as the carbs are flooded. I've proven it by > putting >> a clamp on the coolant hose to stop circulation. The local Rotax agent >> educated me about the Skydrive. He also claims that because the added >> collar moves the carburator further from the engine, it contributes to >> vibration problems. >> And lastly, I don't believe that hot air and hot fuel going into the >> combustion, does not affect engine performance. You have a 914, so you >> wouldn't know. >> >> Best regards, >> >> karl >> >> >> >> >> >>>From: "Tim Ward" >>>To: >>>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control >>>Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 13:45:58 +1200 >>> >>>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Ward" >>> >>>Karl, >>>Just keep the carb heat on all the time, no performance penalty. > Having >> >>>a switch is just another thing to go wrong and fix! >>>Cheers, >>>Tim >>>Tim Ward >>>12 Waiwetu Street, >>>Fendalton, >>>Christchurch, 8052 >>>New Zealand >>> >>>Ph +64 3 3515166 >>>Mobile 021 0640221 >>>ward.t@xtra.co.nz >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Heindl" >>>To: >>>Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:20 PM >>>Subject: Europa-List: Skydrive on/off control >>> >>> >>>>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Does anyone know of an inline valve, controlled electrically, for >>>>controlling the coolant flow in the Skydrive carb heater ? >>>>I know they exist for central heating systems, but are the wrong >> voltage. >>>> >>>>thanks in advance, >>>> >>>>Karl >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:30 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: Dodgy Regulator? From: "steve v." --> Europa-List message posted by: "steve v." 900 SSD , Very Nice ! , I'm afraid i'm one of the "latest whatever it is now " brigade... anyway, talking of the 916, on the lower section of the front RH fairing is a carbon copy of the Europa cowling ducts, this directs outside air directly over the regulator - the duct is about 2-3" away from the reg. face... now then, back to scatching my head over this upholstry. Steve Vestuti #573 ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:51 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: RE: PROBABLE SPAM> RE: Europa-List: Landing Lights --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Hi all I don't have a landing light and I haven't needed one for night landings. What I do need though is a good taxi light. I will only land at my home airport at night because I know my way around, anywhere else would be courting disaster. I plan to fit something in the cowl this winter as the ones I fitted in the outriggers turned out to be worse than useless. I intend to try the new Xe lights, however I am still undecided what colour temperature to use. 6000k would hardly be visible as a recognition light. Just my 2 cents worth. Paul do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:48:01 PM PST US From: BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Dodgy Regulator? O.K. thanks I know Ducatis - even had one umpteen years ago but am not up to date with the jargon. Patrick ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:51 PM PST US From: "Karl Heindl" Subject: RE: PROBABLE SPAM> RE: Europa-List: Landing Lights --> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" Wouldn't it be a lot easier and more flexible to carry one of these highpowered flashlights that you can aim from the cockpit. Or would there be reflections from the windows ? >From: "Paul McAllister" >To: >Subject: RE: PROBABLE SPAM> RE: Europa-List: Landing Lights >Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 17:16:22 -0500 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > >Hi all > >I don't have a landing light and I haven't needed one for night landings. >What I do need though is a good taxi light. I will only land at my home >airport at night because I know my way around, anywhere else would be >courting disaster. > >I plan to fit something in the cowl this winter as the ones I fitted in the >outriggers turned out to be worse than useless. > >I intend to try the new Xe lights, however I am still undecided what colour >temperature to use. 6000k would hardly be visible as a recognition light. > >Just my 2 cents worth. > >Paul > >do not archive > >