Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:16 AM - Europa front wing pins (Keith Hickling)
2. 06:12 AM - Re: prop bolts (Rowland Carson)
3. 09:36 AM - laddingford Fly-In (David Watts)
4. 10:29 AM - Re: Europa front wing pins (danbish)
5. 11:21 AM - Laddingford Fly-In (Richard Holder)
6. 12:12 PM - Laddingford Fly-In (David Watts)
7. 12:28 PM - Re: Laddingford Fly-In (David Watts)
8. 12:30 PM - Re: Re: Europa front wing pins (Fred Klein)
9. 01:54 PM - Re: prop bolts (Karl Heindl)
10. 02:44 PM - Re: prop bolts (Rowland Carson)
11. 10:11 PM - Flying on Salt (Thomas Scherer)
12. 11:35 PM - Re: prop bolts (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Europa front wing pins |
Hi everyone,
I bonded the wing and flap pins in yesterday, and today did a trial fit
of the wings as described in the manual. After setting the wing
incidence to 2.5 deg, I marked the wing root profile on the fuselage.
The manual then says to mark where the front wing pins touch the
fuselage, remove the wings, and drill a 13 mm hole in the fuselage
(through the hardpoint) for the pins. My pins do not touch the fuselage
- even with the wings pushed right into the spar caps and the spar
bushes aligned with the seatback alignment bushes, there is about 3 mm
clearance between the fuse and the tip of the pins. And I am a little
confused, because the manual then goes on to describe possibly having to
make shims to fill the gap between the socket and the fuselage. If that
is necessary, I can't see that the pins would be going to pass through
the shims and the fuselage (unless perhaps longer pins were used
previously). And the figures in the manual do not show a hole through
the shims as would be needed if the pins go through the fuselage.
Can you help my confusion here? Do other's front wing pins go through
the fuselage?
Keith Hickling,
New Zealand.
Kit 613..
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
At 2006-09-07 18:58 +0200 Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote:
>I have attached (I hope it comes through!) a rough sketch
>illustrating the principle.
Svein - your diagram is excellent and clearly shows what you mean to
do - but I'm having trouble understanding how this ensures correct
torque at the prop bolt.
Initially, I thought it was fine, but when I try to analyse what is
happening in terms of the forces that are being applied at various
points, I don't seem to be able to extract a sensible answer.
I also imagined a different geometry - such as the torque wrench in
line with the ring spanner - and it seems that wouldn't work unless
the torque setting was adjusted to allow for the relative lengths of
the torque wrench and spanner.
Can you (or anyone else) offer an explanation of why the 90-degree
geometry works?
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson PFA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/
| 750 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | laddingford Fly-In |
I have already put out a message about the Laddingford Fly-In in Kent,
UK this coming Sunday which is due some very good weather, but a couple
of points that will be of interest to those attending.
Anybody approaching from the South, watch out for the TRA near the
MAYfield VOR.
Also at the Hop Farm , which is under the base leg of runway 11 at
Laddingford will be Terry Wogan hosting a Proms In The Park. This in
itself is of no real concern, but I have heard through the grapevine
that the Red Arrows may be doing a fly past at 2 pm so keep a good
lookout at that time.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY
Laddingford Airfield Manager.
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | RE: Europa front wing pins |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "danbish" <n914rb@earthlink.net>
Hi Keith,
I had a devil of a time with this step so I can speak from experience. The short
answer to your question is that you don't really have to worry about marking
the fuselage. If the pins don't contact the fuselage, you don't need a hole.
Just mix up some redux, set the incidence, and bond the socket to the fuse. Read
below for more detail on this.
Now, since you brought it up, I thought I'd relate my experience so other builders
might benefit when they get to this stage. This applies mostly to those whose
pins [i:79927d94d9][b:79927d94d9]do [/b:79927d94d9][/i:79927d94d9] contact
the fuselage and hopefully this message will appear when they search on the subject.
First, I'm assuming that you have been able to get the wings in the fuselage with
the pins full through both port & starboard sides. If you haven't already,
make up guides out of tufnol to support and guide the spars/wings into the correct
position. This isn't mentioned in the manual but is shown in great detail
in photos on Bob Borger's album on the Europa Owner's gallery. (Thanks Bob for
making those available. They were invaluable!). There's just no way to keep
the wings held in the right position throughout the process of setting the incidence
without these, IMHO.
I'm also assuming you've already made the cutouts at the trailing edge (TE) socket
on the wings that allow you to access the pin in the TE socket.
Now, on to fixing the problem. I, too, followed the manual and reduxed in the bolts.
Then I discovered there was just no way of getting a good mark on the fuse
to set the incidence. So, I heated up my bolts and removed them. This was easily
accomplished by using a plumber's cloth that I got at the local plumbing
supply. It's a black cloth that takes heat to something like a bizillion degrees
and will protect the area around the pin. I cut a small hole in the cloth,
pushed it over the pin, then heated with a butane torch until it loosened. You'll
mar the pin a bit with your wrench, but that can be buffed out.
Then I got 2-12mm (I think that was the size) bolts from the hardware store and
screwed them in place of the LE pins. You might have to re-tap the threads to
clean out the old redux.
Next, with the help of another builder, Gary, we set up the fuse level in all directions
as best as we could and put supports under each wing.
Put a small dot of a paint or dye on the head of the LE bolts. I used that orange
stuff you put on nuts & bolts to indicate slippage. Screw the bolts into the
wing so they won't touch the fuselage and then put the wings back in place and
pin them. Get the correct incidence set, carefully place supports under the
wings, then reach in and unscrew the bolts until the dot of color contacts the
fuselage.
You now have your mark for placement of the LE socket. If your pins do contact
the fuse, drill your hole on this mark now. If not, don't drill- you don't need
it. Mix up some redux, coat the back of the LE socket and the appropriate amount
of shim, coat the TE socket and shims, then push the wings in place.
Check your incidence again (and again) then add some more redux around the sockets.
Gary sanded down a mixing stick so it'd go into the gap between the wing
and the fuse. Works a treat.
Now, check the incidence a couple of more times until you KNOW you have it all
set correctly and leave undisturbed until it cures.
A couple of things that might not occur to you until it's too late:
1) Since you're setting the incidence relative to the fuse being level (measured
at the window sill) we discovered that my kit wasn't exactly the same on both
sides and couldn't be leveled this way. We decided that this was due to some
variances in manufacturing and used the port window seal as our constant and
set both wings to that.
2) Put plenty of grease on the LE pin and in the socket as redux will get in there
during cure and you don't want to have the pin reduxed into the socket. If
this happens, a little heat from a heat gun will help followed by a nice hard
jerk on the wing. (personal experience here :oops: ) No jokes about the jerk
on the wing...
3) Use a digital level if you have one but know that it's still tough to get this
set EXACTLY right. I got both my wings set to 2.6 deg and just have to accept
that. At least they're both set the same. Like Gary says, "measure with a micrometer,
mark with a crayon, cut with a hatchet" :lol:. It's something like
that but I'm a bit of a perfectionist and feel we did a good job of setting this
as correctly as we could.
Alright, that's about it. Now, this is what worked for me. Proceed at your own
risk! And let me know if you need clarification on anything.
Good luck!
Dan
Subject: Setting wing incidence
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Laddingford Fly-In |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
> Anybody approaching from the South, watch out for the
> TRA near the MAYfield VOR.
> Also at the Hop Farm , which is under the base leg of
> runway 11 at Laddingford will be Terry Wogan hosting a
> Proms In The Park. This in itself is of no real
> concern, but I have heard through the grapevine that
> the Red Arrows may be doing a fly past at 2 pm so keep
> a good lookout at that time.
Both are shown as NOTAMS.
However the Hop Farm NOTAM is for 1800 - 1830 UTC, not 2 pm.
NotamPlot is wonderful !
Richard Holder
G-OWWW who is planning to come if now still welcome :-)
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Laddingford Fly-In |
I have just read the latest notams and now they are saying that there
will be an aerobatic display at the Hop Farm from 18.00 to 18.30 so
again be careful if attending our Fly-In.
Dave Watts
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Laddingford Fly-In |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Watts" <dg.watts@talktalk.net>
The 18.00 -18.30 Hop Farm Notam is for the aerobatic display and not the Red
Arrows as my information is that they will just perform a flypast which will
not be notamed
Dave Watts
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holder" <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:16 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Laddingford Fly-In
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
>
>> Anybody approaching from the South, watch out for the
>> TRA near the MAYfield VOR.
>
>> Also at the Hop Farm , which is under the base leg of
>> runway 11 at Laddingford will be Terry Wogan hosting a
>> Proms In The Park. This in itself is of no real
>> concern, but I have heard through the grapevine that
>> the Red Arrows may be doing a fly past at 2 pm so keep
>> a good lookout at that time.
>
> Both are shown as NOTAMS.
>
> However the Hop Farm NOTAM is for 1800 - 1830 UTC, not 2 pm.
>
> NotamPlot is wonderful !
>
> Richard Holder
> G-OWWW who is planning to come if now still welcome :-)
>
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Europa front wing pins |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Dan,
Thanks much for your thorough and detailed posting...it's a keeper!
Fred
A194
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On Friday, September 8, 2006, at 10:28 AM, danbish wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "danbish" <n914rb@earthlink.net>
>
> Hi Keith,
>
> I had a devil of a time with this step so I can speak from experience.
> The short answer to your question is that you don't really have to
> worry about marking the fuselage. If the pins don't contact the
> fuselage, you don't need a hole. Just mix up some redux, set the
> incidence, and bond the socket to the fuse. Read below for more detail
> on this.
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" <kheindl@msn.com>
I have seen a licenced aircraft engineer do same on my aircraft. It makes
sense to me, but I guess someone could provide the mathematics. My Woodcomp
nuts are 1/2 inch, and the torque wrench can also be set up for 1/2 inch.
The open end then of a common garden wrench fits onto the torque wrench, and
the other end fits onto the nut. Torque is then applied at right angle.
Karl
>From: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: prop bolts
>Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 11:00:01 +0100
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
>
>At 2006-09-07 18:58 +0200 Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote:
>
>>I have attached (I hope it comes through!) a rough sketch illustrating the
>>principle.
>
>Svein - your diagram is excellent and clearly shows what you mean to do -
>but I'm having trouble understanding how this ensures correct torque at the
>prop bolt.
>
>Initially, I thought it was fine, but when I try to analyse what is
>happening in terms of the forces that are being applied at various points,
>I don't seem to be able to extract a sensible answer.
>
>I also imagined a different geometry - such as the torque wrench in line
>with the ring spanner - and it seems that wouldn't work unless the torque
>setting was adjusted to allow for the relative lengths of the torque wrench
>and spanner.
>
>Can you (or anyone else) offer an explanation of why the 90-degree geometry
>works?
>
>regards
>
>Rowland
>--
>| Rowland Carson PFA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/
>| 750 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
>
>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
At 2006-09-08 11:00 +0100 Rowland Carson wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
>
>At 2006-09-07 18:58 +0200 Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote:
>
>>I have attached (I hope it comes through!) a rough sketch
>>illustrating the principle.
>Can you (or anyone else) offer an explanation of why the 90-degree
>geometry works?
Apologies for replying to my own post, but the penny has finally dropped!
Consider (as they say in all the best textbooks) a virtual lever
going diagonally from the handle end of the torque wrench to the
centre of the prop bolt. This will be longer than the actual torque
wrench, but the component of force effective at right angles to its
axis will be smaller than the force exerted by the operator, in the
exact proportion required to apply the required torque to the prop
bolt.
All I had to do was remember that the torque-wrench & spanner
assembly is a rigid body (at least until the torque wrench clicks)
and sketch the components of the operator force. Sorry to be so slow
on the uptake, and apologies, Svein, for casting doubt on your
suggestion!
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson PFA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/
| 750 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Just to report about the last flight of N81EU ...
I was asked by a German motorcycle team who was participating in the
Bonneville Salt Flat Speed Trials 2006 to fly the Camera team. Took my
magic carpet to Wendover Airport in Utah / Nevada and landed on the Utah
Salt lake. This basically is a 35 * 35 mile runway of flat salt. Fitted
a TV camera to the elevator and flew 17 times off the Salt. What a ball
!
Later in the day I flew the National Geographic team for the new land
speed record (the bike was faster than the Europa at 375 Mph ...)
Hope the images comes through.
be well - happy landings !
<Thomas, N81EU>
35 Mile runway - 5 miles wide. How is that ?!?
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
Rowland,
You did not cast doubt on my suggestion, you only wanted to be certain that
you fully understood what you might be doing to your aircraft!
Your looking at the set-up as one rigid unit explains it in
easier-to-understand terms than if I had started explaining how a bending
moment (the torque) applied at one end of a cantilevered beam (the spanner
placed on the prop.nut) without any transverse force (since your hand pull
is axial on the spanner) sets up the same bending moment at all points along
the length of the beam and at its fixed end, i.e. onto the prop. bolt.
Your way of looking at it prompts one word of caution, however: It is
important to apply the hand force parallel to the spanner. If applied at an
angle, the transverse (to the spanner) component of this force acts at the
outer end of the spanner (where the torque wrench is affixed), giving an
additional torque moment on the prop.bolt (equal to the transverse force
component multiplied by the spanner length). This is the reason for
recommending that the torque wrench is orientated at right angle to the
spanner before you begin to apply hand force - it is natural to pull on the
torque wrench handle at right angle and thus the pull is approximately
parallel to the spanner.
Best regards,
Svein
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rowland Carson" <rowil@clara.net>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: prop bolts
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
>
> At 2006-09-08 11:00 +0100 Rowland Carson wrote:
>
> >--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
> >
> >At 2006-09-07 18:58 +0200 Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote:
> >
> >>I have attached (I hope it comes through!) a rough sketch
> >>illustrating the principle.
>
> >Can you (or anyone else) offer an explanation of why the 90-degree
> >geometry works?
>
> Apologies for replying to my own post, but the penny has finally dropped!
>
> Consider (as they say in all the best textbooks) a virtual lever
> going diagonally from the handle end of the torque wrench to the
> centre of the prop bolt. This will be longer than the actual torque
> wrench, but the component of force effective at right angles to its
> axis will be smaller than the force exerted by the operator, in the
> exact proportion required to apply the required torque to the prop
> bolt.
>
> All I had to do was remember that the torque-wrench & spanner
> assembly is a rigid body (at least until the torque wrench clicks)
> and sketch the components of the operator force. Sorry to be so slow
> on the uptake, and apologies, Svein, for casting doubt on your
> suggestion!
>
> regards
>
> Rowland
> --
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|