---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/10/06: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:24 AM - Essex area (Chelmsford): Trailer loan request, AdvTHANKSance (Alan Stewart) 2. 03:40 AM - Re: front wing pins (Keith Hickling) 3. 04:06 AM - Re: Woodcomp CS curved propeller type (ivor.phillips) 4. 06:47 AM - Re: Essex area (Chelmsford): Trailer loan request, AdvTHANKSance (tony.bale@virgin.net) 5. 07:26 AM - Europa front wing pins (Fergus Kyle) 6. 08:55 AM - Essex area (Chelmsford): Trailer loan request (Richard Holder) 7. 09:46 AM - Prop. bolts (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 8. 12:23 PM - Laddingford Fly-In (David Watts) 9. 01:49 PM - Re: Woodcomp CS curved propeller type (Graham Singleton) 10. 04:00 PM - Re: Flying on Salt (danbish) 11. 05:14 PM - Re: Flying on Salt (Steve Crimm) 12. 05:31 PM - First Run Up (astills) 13. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: Flying on Salt (SteveD) 14. 09:59 PM - Re: Flying on Salt (danbish) 15. 10:08 PM - Re: First Run Up (danbish) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:24:57 AM PST US From: "Alan Stewart" Subject: Europa-List: Essex area (Chelmsford): Trailer loan request, AdvTHANKSance Does anyone in the Essex area own a Europa trailer or similar, suitable for the carriage of a Mark 1, Europa ? I need to transport my aircraft and would like to borrow the trailer for a couple of days. Very happy to make a contribution towards its upkeep, and I shall treat it with the same care as the item it's transporting ! Thanks in advance, Alan ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:43 AM PST US From: Keith Hickling Subject: Re: Europa-List:front wing pins --> Europa-List message posted by: Keith Hickling Dan and Dave, Many thanks for your replies. It is very reassuring to have this kind of help when the manual seems to contradict itsself. Regards, Keith Hickling. New Zealand. ----- Original Message ----- From: "danbish" Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 5:28 AM Subject: Europa-List: RE: Europa front wing pins > Hi Keith, > > I had a devil of a time with this step so I can speak from experience. The > short answer to your question is that you don't really have to worry about > marking the fuselage. If the pins don't contact the fuselage, you don't > need a hole. Just mix up some redux, set the incidence, and bond the > socket to the fuse. Read below for more detail on this. > > Now, since you brought it up, I thought I'd relate my experience so other > builders might benefit when they get to this stage. This applies mostly to > those whose pins [i:79927d94d9][b:79927d94d9]do > [/b:79927d94d9][/i:79927d94d9] contact the fuselage and hopefully this > message will appear when they search on the subject. > > First, I'm assuming that you have been able to get the wings in the > fuselage with the pins full through both port & starboard sides. If you > haven't already, make up guides out of tufnol to support and guide the > spars/wings into the correct position. This isn't mentioned in the manual > but is shown in great detail in photos on Bob Borger's album on the Europa > Owner's gallery. (Thanks Bob for making those available. They were > invaluable!). There's just no way to keep the wings held in the right > position throughout the process of setting the incidence without these, > IMHO. > > I'm also assuming you've already made the cutouts at the trailing edge > (TE) socket on the wings that allow you to access the pin in the TE > socket. > > Now, on to fixing the problem. I, too, followed the manual and reduxed in > the bolts. Then I discovered there was just no way of getting a good mark > on the fuse to set the incidence. So, I heated up my bolts and removed > them. This was easily accomplished by using a plumber's cloth that I got > at the local plumbing supply. It's a black cloth that takes heat to > something like a bizillion degrees and will protect the area around the > pin. I cut a small hole in the cloth, pushed it over the pin, then heated > with a butane torch until it loosened. You'll mar the pin a bit with your > wrench, but that can be buffed out. > > Then I got 2-12mm (I think that was the size) bolts from the hardware > store and screwed them in place of the LE pins. You might have to re-tap > the threads to clean out the old redux. > > Next, with the help of another builder, Gary, we set up the fuse level in > all directions as best as we could and put supports under each wing. > > Put a small dot of a paint or dye on the head of the LE bolts. I used that > orange stuff you put on nuts & bolts to indicate slippage. Screw the bolts > into the wing so they won't touch the fuselage and then put the wings back > in place and pin them. Get the correct incidence set, carefully place > supports under the wings, then reach in and unscrew the bolts until the > dot of color contacts the fuselage. > > You now have your mark for placement of the LE socket. If your pins do > contact the fuse, drill your hole on this mark now. If not, don't drill- > you don't need it. Mix up some redux, coat the back of the LE socket and > the appropriate amount of shim, coat the TE socket and shims, then push > the wings in place. > > Check your incidence again (and again) then add some more redux around the > sockets. Gary sanded down a mixing stick so it'd go into the gap between > the wing and the fuse. Works a treat. > > Now, check the incidence a couple of more times until you KNOW you have it > all set correctly and leave undisturbed until it cures. > > A couple of things that might not occur to you until it's too late: > > 1) Since you're setting the incidence relative to the fuse being level > (measured at the window sill) we discovered that my kit wasn't exactly the > same on both sides and couldn't be leveled this way. We decided that this > was due to some variances in manufacturing and used the port window seal > as our constant and set both wings to that. > > 2) Put plenty of grease on the LE pin and in the socket as redux will get > in there during cure and you don't want to have the pin reduxed into the > socket. If this happens, a little heat from a heat gun will help followed > by a nice hard jerk on the wing. (personal experience here :oops: ) No > jokes about the jerk on the wing... > > 3) Use a digital level if you have one but know that it's still tough to > get this set EXACTLY right. I got both my wings set to 2.6 deg and just > have to accept that. At least they're both set the same. Like Gary says, > "measure with a micrometer, mark with a crayon, cut with a hatchet" > :lol:. It's something like that but I'm a bit of a perfectionist and feel > we did a good job of setting this as correctly as we could. > > Alright, that's about it. Now, this is what worked for me. Proceed at your > own risk! And let me know if you need clarification on anything. > Good luck! > > Dan > Subject: Setting wing incidence > ---------------- > Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:04 AM PST US From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Woodcomp CS curved propeller type Hi Michael If you go to Mark Burton website http://www.smartavionics.com/ You can download the Manual's for the Propeller controller; additionally the CSC-1 can show MAP as well, Further reducing your number of instruments if your panel is tight for space, Regards Ivor _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Grass Sent: 09 September 2006 19:46 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp CS curved propeller type All, thanks for the replies. This prop looks promising with the preliminary data and, Fred I agree, very cool on the aircraft. I have ordered it now. :<)) The sad part is: It will still take a while before I can give a report on the performance because of my building progress. :<( Good part is that I still enjoy the building :<)) . I always wonder what ex builders do when their are finished and not flying. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:18 AM PST US From: "tony.bale@virgin.net" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Essex area (Chelmsford): Trailer loan request, AdvTHANKSance --> Europa-List message posted by: "tony.bale@virgin.net" Alan, Jamie had a trailer at the strip and it was their for a while, worth a call probably, I think his contact number is on the notice board. Where have you been ?? Tony G-CCUL Original Message: ----------------- From: Alan Stewart alan.stewart@blueyonder.co.uk Subject: Europa-List: Essex area (Chelmsford): Trailer loan request, AdvTHANKSance Does anyone in the Essex area own a Europa trailer or similar, suitable for the carriage of a Mark 1, Europa ? I need to transport my aircraft and would like to borrow the trailer for a couple of days. Very happy to make a contribution towards its upkeep, and I shall treat it with the same care as the item it's transporting ! Thanks in advance, Alan -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:19 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: Europa front wing pins --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Fred, I read the above exchange and cringe at the time I took to accurately set the angle (I think we were taught as the "rigger's angle of Incudence" but not sure). Slow learner! Anyway, just a thought - it might be a good idea to log your found horizontal datum, and to photograph the 2.5deg (or whatever) on the incliometer for the inspector's ease of mind. I did this for both wings and am glad I did as my inspector seemed most relieved to see proof. Ferg Kyle Europa A064 914 Classic ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:04 AM PST US From: Richard Holder Subject: Europa-List: Essex area (Chelmsford): Trailer loan request --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder Alan Stewart wrote: > Does anyone in the Essex area own a Europa trailer or > similar, suitable for the carriage of a Mark 1, Europa > ? > I need to transport my aircraft and would like to > borrow the trailer for a couple of days. I have a flat trailer with appendages to transport a tri-gear. It is a 14 ft by 6ft 6 and heavy - you would need a 4 x 4 to pull it I think. Unfortunately the appendages will not support a monowheel ! Richard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS) Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842804 (fax) Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile) SG12 8SH email : richard.holder@avnet.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:14 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Europa-List: Prop. bolts WARNING: Only for the keenly interested! Philip, I take it that the chart you refer to is unique for each torque wrench (or rather, wrench handle length), and that it gives adjusted torque setting as a function of spanner length. You are correct in that the angle of pull makes no difference, PROVIDED the wrench handle is on a straight line extension of the spanner. Pulling at any angle other than at right angle to the handle will then set up only an axial force in the wrench/spanner combo and a shear force on the bolt head, not an added torque. If the wrench handle is at an angle to the spanner, however, it will matter which angle you pull at and the correction factor in the table cannot be used. Any handle angle away from straight line makes the effective distance from your pull to the bolt shorter (reduced moment arm), i.e. reduces the torque on the bolt even if the wrench torque setting remains unchanged. Wrench and spanner at right angles: As you will see from my attached illustration, the spanner length becomes immaterial, as it does not contribute to the torque acting on the bolt if you pull parallel to it (it does not contribute to the pull's moment arm). The advantage of the method I described is that you do not need a correction table, you can set the prescribed bolt torque directly on whichever suitable wrench you have at hand. If you decide to change to a different length spanner you do not have to remember to re-set the torque limit. The only thing to remember is that your pull must be parallel to the spanner. It makes no difference if the wrench is not at right angle to the spanner, but it is more natural to pull at right angle to the wrench handle and therefore right angle orientation of the two tools is recommended. An illustration of the result of not pulling parallel to the spanner is attached, to emphasize the importance of this point. Best regards, Svein PS: In case anyone should question why it does not in itself matter if the wrench is not at right angle to the spanner as long as your pull is parallel to the spanner: The moment arm does become smaller, but as you are still pulling parallel to the spanner (Rule 1 and the only rule!), now at an angle other than 90 degr to the handle, your pull must be correspondingly stronger to reach the torque limit set on the wrench. Once the limit is reached, the moment "travelling" down to the prop.bolt is the same as set on the wrench. Example: If the wrench is at 45 degr to the spanner but your pull is still parallel to it, the effective moment arm (effective wrench handle length) is 1/1.41 of the handle's actual length, and you must pull 1.41 times harder to reach the torque limit set on the wrench. Can of course be proven mathematically, but trust this suffices! ----- Original Message ----- From: "philip george" Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 12:44 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: prop bolts > --> Europa-List message posted by: "philip george" > > Rowland I was at one time a Snap on tools dealer and Snap on used to > produce a chart for use with torque adaptors for use in this situation ie. > any adaptor offsetting the torque length as used on for example . V12 Jag > cylinder heads when the casting overhangs the head bolts . the angle that > the torque wrench is pulled makes no difference (unless someone corrects me) > any Snap on dealer should be able to supply the chart . Philip George > > > >From: Rowland Carson > >To: europa-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Europa-List: prop bolts > >Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 11:00:01 +0100 > > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson > > > >At 2006-09-07 18:58 +0200 Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote: > > > >>I have attached (I hope it comes through!) a rough sketch illustrating the > >>principle. > > > >Svein - your diagram is excellent and clearly shows what you mean to do - > >but I'm having trouble understanding how this ensures correct torque at the > >prop bolt. > > > >Initially, I thought it was fine, but when I try to analyse what is > >happening in terms of the forces that are being applied at various points, > >I don't seem to be able to extract a sensible answer. > > > >I also imagined a different geometry - such as the torque wrench in line > >with the ring spanner - and it seems that wouldn't work unless the torque > >setting was adjusted to allow for the relative lengths of the torque wrench > >and spanner. > > > >Can you (or anyone else) offer an explanation of why the 90-degree geometry > >works? > > > >regards > > > >Rowland > >-- > >| Rowland Carson PFA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/ > >| 750 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:16 PM PST US From: "David Watts" Subject: Europa-List: Laddingford Fly-In Thank you to everybody who came to our Laddingford Fly-In today. We had a total of 39 aircraft of which 20 were Europas. Great to see you all. The barbecue went well and we managed to take nearly 40 people for an air experience flight. Also, although I was the only one left to see it, the day was rounded off very nicely by the Hawker Hurricane that did the flying display for the Proms in The Park at 7.00 pm with most of the performance right over our heads as the Hop Farm Park is under our base leg for runway 11. Thanks again, and looking forward to next year, Dave Watts G-BXDY Laddingfirld Airfield Manager ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:49:16 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp CS curved propeller type --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton Michael who is your tech councillor? I am going to visit with Jim Price at Pontiac Sep 28th. Jim was TC for Thomas Scherer. Maybe we could call and swap stories? We will fly to Rough River Friday, back Sunday weather permitting. Graham Michael Grass wrote: > All, > > thanks for the replies. This prop looks promising with the preliminary > data and, Fred I agree, very cool on the aircraft. I have ordered it > now. :<)) > > The sad part is: It will still take a while before I can give a report > on the performance because of my building progress. :<( > > Good part is that I still enjoy the building :<)) . > > I always wonder what ex builders do when their are finished and not > flying. > > Thanks again > > Michael Grass > Europa XS 914 Trigear > Detroit > >* >* > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:05 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: Flying on Salt From: "danbish" --> Europa-List message posted by: "danbish" Hi Thomas, Sounds like fun but I don't see a link to the photos. Dan ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:35 PM PST US From: "Steve Crimm" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Flying on Salt Thomas,l >From 1978 till 1983 I flew helicopters (Bell 206's) in Salt Lake City for a local television station KUTV. Whenever the lake (Bonneville) was dry, most of the time it was 6 to 12 inches underwater, we would fly out to Bonneville and watch those interested in either trying to kill themselves or break speed records. Sometime I think they both were synonymous with each other. Whether is was motor cycles, stockers, the local kids car or rocket/jet cars they all went faster than my slow ass helicopter. My 130 MPH was a drop in the bucket when these guys got rolling, especially the 250+ MPH'ers. The biggest thing I think was just that much speed on the ground instead of in the air where we are used to going fast being accomplished.. I also flew helicopters to film unlimited hydrofoil boats and they too ran away from me when they were at idle it seemed like. The only time during a race when I could even get close to them was catch them in the corners/turns when they had to slow down to around 150 or so and watch them blow by me. BTW, make sure you give your bird a good bath, the salt out on the flats is very concentrated and more corrosive that what you normally would encounter. Steve _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Scherer Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 01:10 Subject: Europa-List: Flying on Salt Just to report about the last flight of N81EU ... I was asked by a German motorcycle team who was participating in the Bonneville Salt Flat Speed Trials 2006 to fly the Camera team. Took my magic carpet to Wendover Airport in Utah / Nevada and landed on the Utah Salt lake. This basically is a 35 * 35 mile runway of flat salt. Fitted a TV camera to the elevator and flew 17 times off the Salt. What a ball ! Later in the day I flew the National Geographic team for the new land speed record (the bike was faster than the Europa at 375 Mph ...) Hope the images comes through. be well - happy landings ! 35 Mile runway - 5 miles wide. How is that ?!? ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:14 PM PST US From: "astills" Subject: Europa-List: First Run Up Thought some of you might want to hear of my first start up today. I have a Tri-gear with 3300 Jabiru engine and newly designed cowl. I turned on the fuel pump and put pressure on the line for a few seconds and turned on the engine. After about 10 seconds of no start I turned the fuel pump on again and let it pump up the pressure on the line. I then turned it off and started the engine with the choke closed and the carb opened just a bit. It caught right away and started up. U ran the CHT's up to 290 Deg F and shut it down. It ran so smooth with the Airmaster prop it was really unbelievable. I started it up again after about 30 min's and left it heat up to about the same CHT temperatures. After the first startup we checked for any fuel or oil leaks and any problems....None. After running the engine for about 3-5 minutes the second time we let it cool down while we adjusted the Carb linkage. I then put the top of the cowl on and we started it up again running for about 5 minutes. In all I ran the engine about 10 minutes. I let the CHT's get to 290 Deg F (middle cylinders), and ran the RPM's up to about 1600, The reason I say about 1600 is my EIS didn't register the RPM's I guess due to a wiring problem. Overall I am amazed how quick to start the engine is, how little vibration with the Jabiru and Airmaster combo and how quiet the engine is. After taking care of the RPM problem and a couple of other small Items I'll be doing some higher RPM runs and then slow and fast taxi tests. Myself and my mechanics impression of the Jabiru engine so far is Wow... Al Stills N625AZ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:13 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: RE: Flying on Salt From: "SteveD" --> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" > Hi Thomas, > Sounds like fun but I don't see a link to the photos. > Dan Hi Dan, I moved the photos to the EuropaOwner Gallery: http://www.europaowners.org/Salt or you can see them embedded in the post: http://www.europaowners.org/viewtopic.php?p=12502#12502 Chat Later, Steved ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:50 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: Flying on Salt From: "danbish" --> Europa-List message posted by: "danbish" Thanks Steve! DO NOT ARCHIVE ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:12 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: First Run Up From: "danbish" --> Europa-List message posted by: "danbish" Way to go Al! Glad to hear it went well. Got my AirMaster prop in the other day and looking forward to that step in the process. Won't be able to get up there before Copperstate but hope you're either flying by then and will have your bird there or we can get by your hangar to see it. How'd the paint job turn out? Dan ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/