---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/12/06: 39 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:31 AM - landinglight. (Raimo Toivio) 2. 12:48 AM - Re: Landing Lights (Raimo Toivio) 3. 01:02 AM - Re: prop bolts (Paul Stewart) 4. 05:33 AM - Re: Wing Walk Tape (Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com) 5. 06:02 AM - vacuum problems (danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk) 6. 06:59 AM - Re: Wing Walk Tape (Peter Zutrauen) 7. 07:16 AM - Wing Walk Tape (Fergus Kyle) 8. 07:31 AM - Re: Woodcomp CS curved propeller type (Michael Grass) 9. 07:57 AM - Out-rigger Tube (William Mills) 10. 08:48 AM - Moving fiberglass (Steve Hagar) 11. 08:52 AM - Re: prop bolts (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 12. 09:08 AM - Re: prop bolts (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 13. 09:25 AM - Re: Moving fiberglass (Trevpond@aol.com) 14. 09:35 AM - First flight LN-SKJ (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 15. 09:40 AM - Can someone share experience tuning static port? () 16. 09:48 AM - Re: Moving fiberglass (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 17. 10:06 AM - Re: First flight LN-SKJ (JEFF ROBERTS) 18. 10:07 AM - Re: First flight LN-SKJ (Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com) 19. 10:45 AM - Re: prop bolts (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 20. 11:12 AM - Re: prop bolts (Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com) 21. 12:16 PM - Re: First flight LN-SKJ (R.C.Harrison) 22. 12:16 PM - Re: prop bolts (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 23. 12:35 PM - Re: prop bolts (Ralph Hallett) 24. 01:07 PM - Re: First flight LN-SKJ (Graham Singleton) 25. 01:29 PM - Re: Moving fiberglass (Steve Hagar) 26. 01:30 PM - Re: Moving fiberglass (jimpuglise@comcast.net) 27. 01:48 PM - Re: Moving fiberglass (Steve Hagar) 28. 01:58 PM - Re: vacuum problems (Tim Ward) 29. 02:14 PM - Re: First flight LN-SKJ (Steven Pitt) 30. 02:16 PM - Re: First flight LN-SKJ (Tim Ward) 31. 02:21 PM - Re: Moving fiberglass (JEFF ROBERTS) 32. 02:37 PM - Re: First flight LN-SKJ (Graham Singleton) 33. 02:39 PM - Re: Woodcomp CS curved propeller type (Graham Singleton) 34. 02:49 PM - Re: First flight LN-SKJ (Raimo Toivio) 35. 03:35 PM - Re: Moving fiberglass (Jerry Rehn) 36. 03:55 PM - Re: Wing Walk Tape (steve v.) 37. 07:42 PM - Re: First flight LN-SKJ (Rman) 38. 07:42 PM - Re: First flight LN-SKJ (Rman) 39. 07:49 PM - Re: Moving fiberglass (Terry Seaver (terrys)) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:31:25 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Europa-List: landinglight. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Raimo Toivio" Hi Ron Sorry for delay - I was a week in an archipelago having a camp school with 23 about 11 years old kids, among them my daughter Arla... Landing light: it is installed through light alloy air duct below prop. It is looking up (7 degrees!) when on the ground (monowheel!) but about levelled when flying some day. High voltage ballast has been installed on the firewall front of the pilots legs. By the way I fixed that Xenon by extraordinary way. No bolts and nuts at all - only by Sikaflex 221 adhesive sealant system (I hardly can wait when my supervisor will see it!). The distance to the silencer is about 30 mm and I am little worried. Maybe I have to put some heat barrier between them. Taxi light: it is installed on the co-pilot side fire wall (yes - inside the cowlings!). It is lurking through that extra Naca inlet which locates stbd side, lower cowling (I have no turbo so I hope it is extra for me!). The ballast is fixed on the side stiffener of the cooling air duct. When on the taxi position, the hottest spot of that light beam is about 15 metres front of the plane. I was there playing games with them last night and really they were like sun itself - two of them. I estimate those 35 W Xenons are equal like 500 W halogen lights in my work shop. The light beam reaches more than 100 m /300 feets. Still I can keep my hand on the glass of the Xenon w/o burn, it is almost cool. Noise problem? I suppose you are talking about radio problems or what? Honestly I do not know yet, my radios has been tested before Xenons. When connecting on the Xenons man can hear quite a sexy sound for a while but not very long, unfortunately. I took some pics and let you know the link soon, hope tomorrow. My highly recommendation... Regards, Raimo ========== Raimo M W Toivio OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417 OH-CVK C172 Skyhawk OH-BLL Beechcraft C45 w radial engines (grounded) 37500 Lempaala Finland tel + 358 3 3753 777 fax + 358 3 3753 100 gsm + 358 40 590 1450 raimo.toivio@rwm.fi www.rwm.fi ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 2:32 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: landinglight. > --> Europa-List message posted by: > > Hello Raimo > > "I have Hella Xenon-lights, both landing and taxilights. > They are extremely powerfull, long-life enough, vibration resistant and > take only 3A. > Also its size is reasonable,the lenght is about 100 mm and diameter about > 50 mm you can purchase round or square model if you like). > Of course they heavier than those led-toys but less than man can guess." > > Where did you install them in your Europa? > Have a picture? > Any noise problems? > > Thx. > Ron Parigoris > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:48:34 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Landing Lights --> Europa-List message posted by: "Raimo Toivio" Dear Karl, I am never brave enough to fly to Oshkosh;) here is an air traffic jam when there is two or three Cessnas in circuit. If a commercial plane is coming, all the others had to fly to the waiting pattern and fly round and round to the ethernity. Most of the runways are 1500-3000 feet, untowered, unlighted, unpopulated and middle of the forest faraway from everywhere. Only real city airport is in Helsinki but "they" will destroy it. If you like to eat 300$ hamburger, it is easy but you must grill it by yourself. Here is a link for saving Malmi airport: http://pelastamalmi.org/fi/index.html Welcome to the European Alaska, Finland. With or without lights... Regard, Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Heindl" Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:42 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Landing Lights > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" > > > Dear Raimo, > > I am very happy for you, I didn't really want to be critical. Actually, I > did install allthe wiring etc. for landing lights, but then never found a > strong reason to install the light itself. Those xenon lights really seem > the business. I am not brave enough to fly at night, although I had the > training. In the US, where I got my original licence in Colorado, night > flying is very popular, but there are long runways almost everywhere within > gliding distance. It was fun to turn the airport lights on and off to check > your position. But then, if you fly into Oshkosh, they tell you to turn off > your lights. > > Best regards, > > karl > > > > > >From: "Raimo Toivio" > >To: > >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Landing Lights > >Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 00:15:28 +0300 > > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Raimo Toivio" > > > >Dear Karl, > > > >in my case the night flight > >is the best part of flying. > >And in Finland when it is dark > >it is really dark. And almost > >all the runways are unlit and > >those with lights are saving energy... > > > >I have to say when landing in the night > >and your plane falls to the total darkness > >between trees you miss good light. > >That is Xenon light. > > > >The 100 W halogen bulb of my Cessnas > >landing light is like grand mamas candle > >lantern when comparing to the 35 W Xenon. > > > >And for those day-time-only-pilots landing > >light is extra safety. When on you are very > >visible. > > > >For me personally those lights are necessary. > >No matter how much they cost, drink or weigh. > > > >"I wish (some Xenon) light for the people > >which wanders in the darkness" > > > >Regards, Raimo > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Karl Heindl" > >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 9:33 PM > >Subject: RE: Europa-List: Landing Lights > > > > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" > > > > > > > > > I remember John Hurst saying: what do you need landing lights for ? He > >was a > > > frequent night flyer. > > > Why carry that extra junk when 99.9 % of the time you are flying at > >daytime > > > anyway. And you are unlikely to land on an unlit runway. > > > > > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu > > > >To: europa-list@matronics.com > > > >Subject: Europa-List: Landing Lights > > > >Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:55:33 -0400 > > > > > > > > There are substantial differences (orders of magnitude) in light > >flux > > > >between what is useful > > > >as a recognition or anti-collision light and a useful landing light. I > > > >have been looking for years > > > >at automotive auxillary halogen lights (the 35 or 50 watt) variety and > > > >even bought two > > > >different pairs to evaluate. In my opinion, they are not useful as > >actual > > > >landing lights. > > > > > > > >Landing lights like the GE 4509 PAR are just much more bright and > > > >appropriately collimated > > > >to the specific task by the reflector housing. > > > > > > > >I mentioned last year that Lo Presti Speed Merchants have GA (TSO > >quality > > > >for retrofit to commercial) > > > >Xenon systems for approximately $350 for the homebuilt version. The > >offer > > > >is still good as of Oshkosh 06. > > > >Xenon is really the best way to go at present, very long life, > >vibration > > > >resistant, a quarter or less current > > > >draw vs the old GE, and no RFI with appropriate shielding. > > > > > > > >Certainly for a Nose Gear mount, Xenon would be first choice. > > > > > > > >Ira N224XS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:39 AM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Re: Europa-List: prop bolts --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart Svein Many thanks for your solution - torqued up the airmaster last night no problem at all. Even did a bench test with and without the spanner just to get the 90 degree pull correct. Regards Paul G-GIDY ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:58 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape From: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com Steve, If it's a tri-gear, you might find it easier to sit on the front of the wing, and enter that way. Seems safer than having people stepping over the flaps. Dave C-FBZI - Transport Canada removing the initial flight restrictions tomorrow, I hope "steve v." Sent by: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com 09/11/2006 05:02 PM Please respond to europa-list To: cc: Subject: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape --> Europa-List message posted by: "steve v." Hi, has anyone got approximate dimentions for placing the wing walk tape or a picture of the upper wing surface ,i cant seem to find it in the manual , also , the factory tape is white, has anyone used black? steve vestuti #573 ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:19 AM PST US From: "danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk" Subject: Europa-List: vacuum problems --> Europa-List message posted by: "danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk" Hi All, Just started plumbing the vacuum system. I find I'm having problems fitting the connectors to the back of the AH and the DI. I'm using falcon gauges, GH02V-3 and DG02V-3. also the vacuum pump kit supplied by Europa. fitting the connector on the inlet on the AH would touch the firewall and therefore the pipe would bend and restrict the vacuum. The connectors for the DI have"T" pieces on then to connect to the gauge, I can screw one in but the "T" piece stops me screwing in the other. Hope this makes sense. Those who have done this job will probably understand what I'm going on about. Any ideas and help would be most welcome. Danny G-c.e.r.i ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:33 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape From: "Peter Zutrauen" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" "Transport Canada removing the initial flight restrictions tomorrow, I hope " Hey Dave, congrats!! I'm sure you'll have a blast drilling distant holes in the sky with your beautiful ship. I'm curious how that tape held up on the rudder hinge - did the high pressure on full right rudder blow it off? I'm grinding through my honey-do list to enable me to get back to having fun playing with Europa parts :-) Cheers, Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com Sent: Tue 12/09/2006 8:32 AM To: europa-list@matronics.com Cc: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape Steve, If it's a tri-gear, you might find it easier to sit on the front of the wing, and enter that way. Seems safer than having people stepping over the flaps. Dave C-FBZI - Transport Canada removing the initial flight restrictions tomorrow, I hope "steve v." Sent by: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com 09/11/2006 05:02 PM Please respond to europa-list To: cc: Subject: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape --> Europa-List message posted by: "steve v." Hi, has anyone got approximate dimentions for placing the wing walk tape or a picture of the upper wing surface ,i cant seem to find it in the manual , also , the factory tape is white, has anyone used black? steve vestuti #573 ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:05 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" ""One of the nice things about building our own aircraft is that we can introduce the small personal touches here and there: Instead of wing walk tape, which I fear will accumulate dust and dirt over time (the purpose is to put your shoes on it, right?) I bought two suitably sized pieces of dark blue anti-skid table cloth (like very open knit, made of synthetic material) at a boating store, sewed a one inch wide piece of red baggage strap to them, with the other end of the strap tied inside the luggage bay. Easy to reach from outside to put in place for entering the cockpit, and impossible to forget to take in before take-off because you cannot close the door with the red strap hanging over the lower sill. When parked, the entire white wing shines white. Best regards, Svein"" Svein, Brilliant! I carry some of this material to prevent sliding on the passenger shelf, but never thought about it as wingwalk. The temporary fitting of it through the door is also bright. The beauty is you can often acquire bits at workshop stores which sell it as desktop anti-slider for routing etc. Thanks for the idea! Ferg Kyle Europa A064 914 Classic ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:02 AM PST US From: "Michael Grass" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp CS curved propeller type --> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Grass" Graham, That would be great. Jim is my TC and he lives about 30 minutes from my house. I have not talked to him for a good year. Actually this is good timing because I was going to contact him to have another look at my progress. I might put you to work too if you don't mind. I just am almost ready to close my wings but my fuselage has progressed quite a bit with the landing gear installed and the top bonded on. I am building a little bit out of sequence because of space considerations. Michael Grass ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Singleton" Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:49 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp CS curved propeller type > --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton > > > Michael > who is your tech councillor? I am going to visit with Jim Price at Pontiac > Sep 28th. Jim was TC for Thomas Scherer. Maybe we could call and swap > stories? We will fly to Rough River Friday, back Sunday weather > permitting. > Graham > > Michael Grass wrote: > >> All, >> thanks for the replies. This prop looks promising with the preliminary >> data and, Fred I agree, very cool on the aircraft. I have ordered it now. >> :<)) >> The sad part is: It will still take a while before I can give a report >> on the performance because of my building progress. :<( >> Good part is that I still enjoy the building :<)) . >> I always wonder what ex builders do when their are finished and not >> flying. >> Thanks again >> Michael Grass >> Europa XS 914 Trigear >> Detroit >> >>* >>* >> > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:00 AM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Europa-List: Out-rigger Tube Someone asked me for a piece of 5/16" out-rigger tube, but I have lost his name and email address. It has just arrived, so If it is you, please email me off forum with your postal address and I will send you a length. Regards, William ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:04 AM PST US From: "Steve Hagar" Subject: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass This issue had come up before some time ago and I need my memory refreshed. Am flying around in the hot AZ sun and differential expansion is rearing its ugly head. This is especially true on the fuselage right around the area where the fuel filler maniflod is attached to the inside. Some very prominent waves have developed in the skin here. I am hesitant on filling these to smooth things out. I am assuming that it is reasonable to expect that things will keep on moving through temperature cycling. Does anyone have any history out there with flying in very hot weather and having the fiberglass move around? Have you found this to settle down after some time? Has anyone come up with a different mounting routine for the manifold after getting the ripples? Steve Hagar N40 SH A143 13 hrs Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:34 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Re: Europa-List: prop bolts --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Paul: Glad to be of help. All: If for some reason you should find the 90 degree orientation awkward for some application, where the spanner and wrench in straight line would be better, here's the equation to use for setting the adjusted torque limit on the wrench if you do not have a table for your wrench: Twa = T x Lw / (Lw + Ls) where Twa = adjusted torque wrench setting T = specified torque for the bolt Lw = length of the torque wrench (from center of connection to the spanner to the middle of the grip of your hand) Ls = length of spanner (from center of bolt to center of connection to wrench) Examples: Wrench and spanner of equal length then set wrench to 1/2 of the specified torque. Wrench twice the length of the spanner then set wrench to 2/3 of the specified torque. Again: Direction of your pull vs. wrench is not an issue (need not be 90 degr.), but the spanner and the wrench must be aligned. Somewhat sensitive to where your grip is on the handle, but if you mark with tape or felt pen and measure to the middle you should be all right for the applications in question. Best regards, Svein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Stewart" Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:04 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: prop bolts > --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart > > Svein > > > Many thanks for your solution - torqued up the airmaster last night no > problem at all. Even did a bench test with and without the spanner just > to get the 90 degree pull correct. > > Regards > > Paul > G-GIDY ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:57 AM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: prop bolts Svein and Others, I'm not sure I agree with this method. I don't think the torque wrench knows how long a handle is exerting the force. I think that it will still "click" at the setting you set it at. If the proper setting is 50 inch lbs (EU's have to do the conversion) and you set it the torque wrench for 25 inch lbs, then the wrench is going to click when you have 25 inch lbs exerted on it. And your bolt is only torqued to 25 inch lbs, not 50. Making the handle longer only allows you to have to exert 1/2 the pressure to get that 50 inch lbs to the torque wrench. Am I missing something here? Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300 Sensenich R64Z N Ground Adjustable Prop ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:42 AM PST US From: Trevpond@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass Hi Steve, Nev Eyre wrote a fix for this fairly recently, suggest you email him direct. Trev Pond G-LINN ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:55 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ All, Late this morning I took my Europa XS trigear on its first flight from Kjeller airfield outside Oslo (ENKJ, known to some of the readers of this forum from visits with their Europas). I followed the first flight program recommended in Europa Owner's Manual, but I must admit that I had a very strong urge to take it on a really long flight! Although I have flown the Europa at a demo flight in Lakeland, I still find it an amazing aircraft to fly. So nimble yet so stable. I was checked out on the Diamond Katana a couple of weeks ago - not even close to Europa when it comes to "fun to fly". Left wing is a bit heavy when letting go of the stick, and so am I but whether this is the reason will be checked out on subsequent flights with more equal loading. Clean stall at abt 51 kt, full flap stall at abt 42 kt (to be reconfirmed later in the test program). Left wing drop in both configurations but quite undramatic all told and very easy and quick to recover from the stall. Duration 20 minutes in the air, absolutely uneventful except some shimmy of the nosewheel on touchdown. I have evidenty loosened the shimmy damper nut too much to get easy steering, so this will have to be tightened up a bit. The engine sings like it enjoys what it is doing, and the temps etc. were all well within limits. The only problem occured when opening the canopy afterwards for the photographer. I wanted a "cool" picture of myself, but that well-known Europa flier grin just sat there! So the stats, Rowland: - Europa XS trigear - Kit no. A225 - Rotax 912ULS - Airmaster A332 with Warp blades - Build time 4 years 9 months - 3300 hrs of which 300 filling and sanding (should have filled less and sanded more, see next item!) - Empty weight, with fairings and all the options plus some, steel nosewheel springs, heavy leather interior trim: 966 lbs (the good thing, though, is that CG is right where it should be at 60.2 in and that the Norwegian CAA has approved 1450 lbs MTOW) A profound "thank you" goes to all on this forum for help and support through the building period; to Andy (whose address I unfortunately do not have), Roger and John at Europa; to Neville (who is worth his weight in gold); and last but not least to my fellow builders here in Norway for invaluable contributions leading up to this most fantastic day! Best regards, Svein LN-SKJ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:48 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Can someone share experience tuning static port? From: --> Europa-List message posted by: Can someone share experience tuning static port? How did you determine when it was correct? What distance was neutral point for O-Ring? Does moving O-Ring forward from neutral increase static pressure? What size O-Ring did you use, did size make much a difference? Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:46 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Hi Steve, I believe what you are seeing is what I have been calling print-thru, not heat/expansion related. Print-thru happens on foam cored surfaces that have something glassed to its back, like the fiber glass reinforcing for your fuel filler neck. As your plane ages, you will find more print-thru on the fuse and wings. regards, Terry Seaver ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hagar Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 8:52 AM Subject: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass This issue had come up before some time ago and I need my memory refreshed. Am flying around in the hot AZ sun and differential expansion is rearing its ugly head. This is especially true on the fuselage right around the area where the fuel filler maniflod is attached to the inside. Some very prominent waves have developed in the skin here. I am hesitant on filling these to smooth things out. I am assuming that it is reasonable to expect that things will keep on moving through temperature cycling. Does anyone have any history out there with flying in very hot weather and having the fiberglass move around? Have you found this to settle down after some time? Has anyone come up with a different mounting routine for the manifold after getting the ripples? Steve Hagar N40 SH A143 13 hrs Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:29 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ Congratulations Svein! You have just found out what this is all about. Quite possibly we all have the nicest 2 seat plane on the planet. Others building will find it out and thoses of us flying know it. Again congratulations you've joined the ranks of the flying! Best Regards Jeff N128LJ Gold Rush @ 37.7 hours. Hold on Jeff I'm coming! On Sep 12, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote: > All, > - > Late this morning I took my Europa XS trigear on its first flight from > Kjeller airfield outside Oslo (ENKJ, known to some of the readers of > this forum from visits with their Europas). > - > I followed the first flight program recommended in Europa Owner's > Manual, but I must admit that I had a very strong urge to take it on a > really long flight! > - > Although I have flown the Europa at-a demo flight in Lakeland, I still > find it-an amazing aircraft to fly.- So nimble yet so stable.- I was > checked out on the Diamond Katana a couple of weeks ago - not even > close to Europa when it comes to "fun to fly".- > - > Left wing is a-bit heavy when letting go of the stick, and so am I-but > whether this is the-reason will be checked out-on subsequent flights > with more equal loading.- Clean stall at abt 51 kt, full flap stall at > abt 42-kt (to be reconfirmed later in the test program).--Left wing > drop in both-configurations but quite undramatic all told and very > easy and quick to recover from the stall. > - > Duration 20 minutes in the air, absolutely uneventful except some > shimmy of the nosewheel on touchdown.- I have evidenty loosened the > shimmy damper nut too much to get easy steering, so this will have to > be tightened up a bit. > The engine sings like it enjoys what it is doing, and the temps etc. > were all well within limits. > - > The only problem occured when opening the canopy afterwards for the > photographer.- I wanted a "cool" picture of myself, but that > well-known Europa flier grin just sat there! > - > So the stats, Rowland: > - > - Europa XS trigear > - Kit no. A225 > - Rotax 912ULS > - Airmaster A332 with Warp blades > - Build time 4 years 9 months - 3300 hrs of which 300 filling and > sanding (should have filled less and sanded more, see next item!) > - Empty weight, with fairings and all the options plus some, steel > nosewheel springs, heavy leather interior trim:- 966 lbs > -- (the good thing, though, is that CG is right where it should be at > 60.2 in and that the Norwegian CAA has approved 1450 lbs MTOW) > - > A profound "thank you" goes to all on this forum for help and support > through the building period; to Andy (whose address I unfortunately do > not have), Roger and John at Europa; to Neville (who is worth his > weight in gold); and last but not least to my fellow builders here in > Norway for invaluable contributions leading up to this most fantastic > day! > - > - > Best regards, > Svein > LN-SKJ > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ From: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com Congratulations Svein, I hope test flying goes well, and that winter does not come too early in your part of the world. I had a heavy left wing, as did the other Europa at my local airport, both cured with a small tab on the right aileron. Perhaps it was the build, but I think it has more to do with the prop rotation. Dave C-FBZI, tri-gear, 912S, woodcomp Do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:28 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Re: Europa-List: prop bolts Mike, Yes, with respect - assuming you refer to the "spanner and wrench in straight line" method: Conider the case when you set the torque for 25 in lbs: - Assume that the wrench is 10 in long (distance from grip to attachment to spanner) - A fraction of force before the wrench clicks, the pull then is a fraction less than 2.5 lbs (10 in x 2.5 lbs = 25 in lbs) - Assume that the spanner also is 10 in long. - Just before the wrench clicks, the force of 2.4999999 lbs has a lever of 10 in (wrench) + 10 in (spanner) = 20 in on the bolt, i.e. a torque of 20 in x 2.5 = 50 in lbs. - Look at it this way: Just before the wrench clicks, the set-up does not know that it is about to break. There is therefore only one stiff piece between your pull of 2.5 lbs and the bolt, and that piece is 20 in long. Using a torque wrench as an extension to the spanner limits your maximum pull, you might say, in this case to 2.5 lbs so that the torque on the bolt cannot exceed 50 in lbs - the click breaks any stronger pull. Best regards, Svein ----- Original Message ----- From: DuaneFamly@aol.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 6:07 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: prop bolts Svein and Others, I'm not sure I agree with this method. I don't think the torque wrench knows how long a handle is exerting the force. I think that it will still "click" at the setting you set it at. If the proper setting is 50 inch lbs (EU's have to do the conversion) and you set it the torque wrench for 25 inch lbs, then the wrench is going to click when you have 25 inch lbs exerted on it. And your bolt is only torqued to 25 inch lbs, not 50. Making the handle longer only allows you to have to exert 1/2 the pressure to get that 50 inch lbs to the torque wrench. Am I missing something here? Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300 Sensenich R64Z N Ground Adjustable Prop ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:56 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: prop bolts From: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com Still makes more sense to me to buy a set of crowsfoot socket wrenches. They only add about an inch to the length of the torque wrench, so a huge mathematical error is unlikely. Mine came from offshore, but excellent quality and only about $15 Canadian Dave ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:13 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ Hi! Svein, Congratulations on your achievement. Just this afternoon I was with Roger Cullum who built the original G-OGAN polystyrene wings . He is currently assisting the build of another Europa XS and we believe that the wings are from an =93accelerated=94 build kit, he was checking out the washout of both wings whilst he still hasn=92t closed them out with the last bottom skin. We are given to understand that on the accelerated kit the leading edge and upper surfaces are allowed to cure in a mould. ( we expect two moulds one for each wing) On checking the underside of each of the wings we found that the washout on the Starboard wing is =BD degree under the requisite 2 =BD degrees. Compared to the Port wing being correct. I suggested that prop wash may either compensate or indeed aggravate the difference but we didn=92t have time to closely consider the matter. Hearing about your =93left=94 wing drop makes me wonder if our =93wash out differing wings=94 may be a common issue on all accelerated wings? Were you totally confident of identical wing washout on your bird? And was it =93ACCELLERATED FACTORY BUILT WINGS.? Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MK1.Kit 337. Robt.C.Harrison -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein Johnsen Sent: 12 September 2006 17:32 Subject: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ All, Late this morning I took my Europa XS trigear on its first flight from Kjeller airfield outside Oslo (ENKJ, known to some of the readers of this forum from visits with their Europas). I followed the first flight program recommended in Europa Owner's Manual, but I must admit that I had a very strong urge to take it on a really long flight! Although I have flown the Europa at a demo flight in Lakeland, I still find it an amazing aircraft to fly. So nimble yet so stable. I was checked out on the Diamond Katana a couple of weeks ago - not even close to Europa when it comes to "fun to fly". Left wing is a bit heavy when letting go of the stick, and so am I but whether this is the reason will be checked out on subsequent flights with more equal loading. Clean stall at abt 51 kt, full flap stall at abt 42 kt (to be reconfirmed later in the test program). Left wing drop in both configurations but quite undramatic all told and very easy and quick to recover from the stall. Duration 20 minutes in the air, absolutely uneventful except some shimmy of the nosewheel on touchdown. I have evidenty loosened the shimmy damper nut too much to get easy steering, so this will have to be tightened up a bit. The engine sings like it enjoys what it is doing, and the temps etc. were all well within limits. The only problem occured when opening the canopy afterwards for the photographer. I wanted a "cool" picture of myself, but that well-known Europa flier grin just sat there! So the stats, Rowland: - Europa XS trigear - Kit no. A225 - Rotax 912ULS - Airmaster A332 with Warp blades - Build time 4 years 9 months - 3300 hrs of which 300 filling and sanding (should have filled less and sanded more, see next item!) - Empty weight, with fairings and all the options plus some, steel nosewheel springs, heavy leather interior trim: 966 lbs (the good thing, though, is that CG is right where it should be at 60.2 in and that the Norwegian CAA has approved 1450 lbs MTOW) A profound "thank you" goes to all on this forum for help and support through the building period; to Andy (whose address I unfortunately do not have), Roger and John at Europa; to Neville (who is worth his weight in gold); and last but not least to my fellow builders here in Norway for invaluable contributions leading up to this most fantastic day! Best regards, Svein LN-SKJ ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:14 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: prop bolts Svein, Please have no fear at offending me as I feel this is a very good example of a learning discussion and I appreciate your input. Now back to the discussion, I understand your point and equations in this discussion. My only concern is changing the setting of the torque wrench. I feel that no matter what length spanner is added to the end of the torque wrench, the only thing that changes is the amount of force your hand needs to exert in order to achieve the torque wrench setting and get the click. If a bolt needs to be torqued at 50 inch lbs, then the torque wrench needs to be set at 50 inch lbs. Unless you are saying that the spanner extension is on the bolt and then the torque wrench is attached to the end of the spanner? My idea is that the torque wrench is on the bolt. Is this the difference in our points of view? Mike Duane Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:35:18 PM PST US From: Ralph Hallett Subject: Re: Europa-List: prop bolts --> Europa-List message posted by: Ralph Hallett Maybe I can help. Take a look at this website, it may assist you with the use of a crows foot. http://www.norbar.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php Ralph DuaneFamly@aol.com wrote: > Svein and Others, > > I'm not sure I agree with this method. I don't think the torque wrench > knows how long a handle is exerting the force. I think that it will > still "click" at the setting you set it at. If the proper setting is > 50 inch lbs (EU's have to do the conversion) and you set it the torque > wrench for 25 inch lbs, then the wrench is going to click when you > have 25 inch lbs exerted on it. And your bolt is only torqued to 25 > inch lbs, not 50. Making the handle longer only allows you to have to > exert 1/2 the pressure to get that 50 inch lbs to the torque wrench. > > Am I missing something here? > > Mike Duane A207A > Redding, California > XS Conventional Gear > Jabiru 3300 > Sensenich R64Z N > Ground Adjustable Prop > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:12 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton Svein Congratulations, I envy you the opportunity to fly all over Scandinavia. Say hello to Jos for me when you get to Ivalo ;-) A "gurney flap" is the easy way to correct a heavy wing. That is around 150mm of P section draft excluder stuck under the trailing edge of the right aileron (for a left wing heavy) Adjust the the length of strip to trim level in the cruise. It has the advantage that no one will notice it except you. Graham Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote: > All, > > Late this morning I took my Europa XS trigear on its first flight from > Kjeller airfield outside Oslo (ENKJ, known to some of the readers of > this forum from visits with their Europas). > > I followed the first flight program recommended in Europa Owner's > Manual, but I must admit that I had a very strong urge to take it on a > really long flight! > > Although I have flown the Europa at a demo flight in Lakeland, I still > find it an amazing aircraft to fly. So nimble yet so stable. I was > checked out on the Diamond Katana a couple of weeks ago - not even > close to Europa when it comes to "fun to fly". > > Left wing is a bit heavy when letting go of the stick, and so am I but > whether this is the reason will be checked out on subsequent flights > with more equal loading. Clean stall at abt 51 kt, full flap stall at > abt 42 kt (to be reconfirmed later in the test program). Left wing > drop in both configurations but quite undramatic all told and very > easy and quick to recover from the stall. > > Duration 20 minutes in the air, absolutely uneventful except some > shimmy of the nosewheel on touchdown. I have evidenty loosened the > shimmy damper nut too much to get easy steering, so this will have to > be tightened up a bit. > The engine sings like it enjoys what it is doing, and the temps etc. > were all well within limits. > > The only problem occured when opening the canopy afterwards for the > photographer. I wanted a "cool" picture of myself, but that > well-known Europa flier grin just sat there! > > So the stats, Rowland: > > - Europa XS trigear > - Kit no. A225 > - Rotax 912ULS > - Airmaster A332 with Warp blades > - Build time 4 years 9 months - 3300 hrs of which 300 filling and > sanding (should have filled less and sanded more, see next item!) > - Empty weight, with fairings and all the options plus some, steel > nosewheel springs, heavy leather interior trim: 966 lbs > (the good thing, though, is that CG is right where it should be at > 60.2 in and that the Norwegian CAA has approved 1450 lbs MTOW) > > A profound "thank you" goes to all on this forum for help and support > through the building period; to Andy (whose address I unfortunately do > not have), Roger and John at Europa; to Neville (who is worth his > weight in gold); and last but not least to my fellow builders here in > Norway for invaluable contributions leading up to this most fantastic day! > > > Best regards, > Svein > LN-SKJ > >* > > >* > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:43 PM PST US From: "Steve Hagar" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass Terry : I have seen what you are talking about, this seems to be a little more extreme, I have attached a photo. Steve. Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Seaver (terrys) Sent: 9/12/2006 9:55:19 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass Hi Steve, I believe what you are seeing is what I have been calling print-thru, not heat/expansion related. Print-thru happens on foam cored surfaces that have something glassed to its back, like the fiber glass reinforcing for your fuel filler neck. As your plane ages, you will find more print-thru on the fuse and wings. regards, Terry Seaver From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hagar Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 8:52 AM Subject: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass This issue had come up before some time ago and I need my memory refreshed. Am flying around in the hot AZ sun and differential expansion is rearing its ugly head. This is especially true on the fuselage right around the area where the fuel filler maniflod is attached to the inside. Some very prominent waves have developed in the skin here. I am hesitant on filling these to smooth things out. I am assuming that it is reasonable to expect that things will keep on moving through temperature cycling. Does anyone have any history out there with flying in very hot weather and having the fiberglass move around? Have you found this to settle down after some time? Has anyone come up with a different mounting routine for the manifold after getting the ripples? Steve Hagar N40 SH A143 13 hrs Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:11 PM PST US From: jimpuglise@comcast.net Subject: RE: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass Steve- This was one of the topics discussed in the Aeropoxy forum at Oshkosh this year. They are a big proponent of post-curing prior to painting. They claim that all fiberglass should be post-cured. I am a long way from being an expert; that is why I was in the forum. They suggest something like 140 degrees for several hours. Those of us living in the heat (AZ, FL, etc.) could probably get there by putting the pieces in the attic for a day. You may want to talk to them about your problem. The other thing they pointed out is that most of the organizations selling their, and other, products are not well qualified to address problems such as print through. You may want to try contacting them and see if they have a fix prior to doing anything. Jim Puglise, A-283 -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Hi Steve, I believe what you are seeing is what I have been calling print-thru, not heat/expansion related. Print-thru happens on foam cored surfaces that have something glassed to its back, like the fiber glass reinforcing for your fuel filler neck. As your plane ages, you will find more print-thru on the fuse and wings. regards, Terry Seaver From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hagar Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 8:52 AM Subject: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass This issue had come up before some time ago and I need my memory refreshed. Am flying around in the hot AZ sun and differential expansion is rearing its ugly head. This is especially true on the fuselage right around the area where the fuel filler maniflod is attached to the inside. Some very prominent waves have developed in the skin here. I am hesitant on filling these to smooth things out. I am assuming that it is reasonable to expect that things will keep on moving through temperature cycling. Does anyone have any history out there with flying in very hot weather and having the fiberglass move around? Have you found this to settle down after some time? Has anyone come up with a different mounting routine for the manifold after getting the ripples? Steve Hagar N40 SH A143 13 hrs Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net
Steve-
 
This was one of the topics discussed in the Aeropoxy forum at Oshkosh this year.  They are a big proponent of post-curing prior to painting.  They claim that all fiberglass should be post-cured.  I am a long way from being an expert; that is why I was in the forum.  They suggest something like 140 degrees for several hours.  Those of us living in the heat (AZ, FL, etc.) could probably get there by putting the pieces in the attic for a day.  You may want to talk to them about your problem.  The other thing they pointed out is that most of the organizations selling their, and other, products are not well qualified to address problems such as print through.  You may want to try contacting them and see if they have a fix prior to doing anything.
 
Jim Puglise, A-283
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com>
Hi Steve,
 
I believe what you are seeing is what I have been calling print-thru, not heat/expansion related.  Print-thru happens on foam cored surfaces that have something glassed to its back, like the fiber glass reinforcing for your fuel filler neck.  As your plane ages, you will find more print-thru on the fuse and wings.
 
regards,
Terry Seaver
 
 
 

From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hagar
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 8:52 AM
To: europa-list
Subject: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass

 

This issue had come up before some time ago and I need my memory refreshed.  Am flying around in the hot AZ sun and differential expansion is rearing its ugly head.  This is especially true on the fuselage right around the area where the fuel filler maniflod is attached to the inside.  Some very prominent waves have developed in the skin here.  I am hesitant on filling these to smooth things out.  I am assuming that it is reasonable to expect that  things  will keep on moving through temperature cycling.  Does anyone have any history out there with flying in very hot weather and having the  fiberglass move around?  Have you found this to settle down after some time?   Has anyone come up with a different mounting routine for the manifold after getting the ripples?
 
Steve Hagar
N40 SH
A143
13 hrs
 
 
Steve Hagar
 
________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:22 PM PST US From: "Steve Hagar" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass During the 6 yr build in AZ it recieved that of curing and more. However the curing they are talking about is the post curing done on the fiberglassyou lay up. The gelcoated fuselage and wings are basically fully processed once you get them. Other than the fiberglass bits and pieces you add to them. Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: 9/12/2006 1:35:24 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass Steve- This was one of the topics discussed in the Aeropoxy forum at Oshkosh this year. They are a big proponent of post-curing prior to painting. They claim that all fiberglass should be post-cured. I am a long way from being an expert; that is why I was in the forum. They suggest something like 140 degrees for several hours. Those of us living in the heat (AZ, FL, etc.) could probably get there by putting the pieces in the attic for a day. You may want to talk to them about your problem. The other thing they pointed out is that most of the organizations selling their, and other, products are not well qualified to address problems such as print through. You may want to try contacting them and see if they have a fix prior to doing anything. Jim Puglise, A-283 -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Hi Steve, I believe what you are seeing is what I have been calling print-thru, not heat/expansion related. Print-thru happens on foam cored surfaces that have something glassed to its back, like the fiber glass reinforcing for your fuel filler neck. As your plane ages, you will find more print-thru on the fuse and wings. regards, Terry Seaver From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hagar Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 8:52 AM Subject: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass This issue had come up before some time ago and I need my memory refreshed. Am flying around in the hot AZ sun and differential expansion is rearing its ugly head. This is especially true on the fuselage right around the area where the fuel filler maniflod is attached to the inside. Some very prominent waves have developed in the skin here. I am hesitant on filling these to smooth things out. I am assuming that it is reasonable to expect that things will keep on moving through temperature cycling. Does anyone have any history out there with flying in very hot weather and having the fiberglass move around? Have you found this to settle down after some time? Has anyone come up with a different mounting routine for the manifold after getting the ripples? Steve Hagar N40 SH A143 13 hrs Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:22 PM PST US From: "Tim Ward" Subject: Re: Europa-List: vacuum problems --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Ward" Danny, Long time ago since doing it however I think I used elbows (90 degree connectors). Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand Ph +64 3 3515166 Mobile 021 0640221 ward.t@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:01 AM Subject: Europa-List: vacuum problems > --> Europa-List message posted by: "danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk" > > > Hi All, > Just started plumbing the vacuum system. I find I'm having > problems fitting the connectors to the back of the AH and the DI. I'm > using falcon gauges, GH02V-3 and DG02V-3. also the vacuum pump kit > supplied by Europa. fitting the connector on the inlet on the AH would > touch the firewall and therefore the pipe would bend and restrict the > vacuum. The connectors for the DI have"T" pieces on then to connect to the > gauge, I can screw one in but the "T" piece stops me screwing in the > other. Hope this makes sense. Those who have done this job will probably > understand what I'm going on about. > Any ideas and help would be most welcome. > > Danny G-c.e.r.i > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:30 PM PST US From: "Steven Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steven Pitt" Graham Can you explain more about the 'gurney flap'. My Europa trigear has a heavy stbd wing and I have (crudely) added an aileron trim to the stbd wing (bent upwards). I have been meaning to look at the science of this situation - can you point me in the appropriate direction. Regards Steve Pitt ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:28 PM PST US From: "Tim Ward" Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ Svein, Congratulations, well done. It is truly a lovely aircraft to fly. A number of Europe's here have the heavy left wing. Easily fixed with an aluminium tab fixed to the port aileron and bent upwards as much as is required. About 100mm x 40mm protruding. Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand Ph +64 3 3515166 Mobile 021 0640221 ward.t@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: JEFF ROBERTS To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 5:05 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ Congratulations Svein! You have just found out what this is all about. Quite possibly we all have the nicest 2 seat plane on the planet. Others building will find it out and thoses of us flying know it. Again congratulations you've joined the ranks of the flying! Best Regards Jeff N128LJ Gold Rush @ 37.7 hours. Hold on Jeff I'm coming! On Sep 12, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote: All, Late this morning I took my Europa XS trigear on its first flight from Kjeller airfield outside Oslo (ENKJ, known to some of the readers of this forum from visits with their Europas). I followed the first flight program recommended in Europa Owner's Manual, but I must admit that I had a very strong urge to take it on a really long flight! Although I have flown the Europa at a demo flight in Lakeland, I still find it an amazing aircraft to fly. So nimble yet so stable. I was checked out on the Diamond Katana a couple of weeks ago - not even close to Europa when it comes to "fun to fly". Left wing is a bit heavy when letting go of the stick, and so am I but whether this is the reason will be checked out on subsequent flights with more equal loading. Clean stall at abt 51 kt, full flap stall at abt 42 kt (to be reconfirmed later in the test program). Left wing drop in both configurations but quite undramatic all told and very easy and quick to recover from the stall. Duration 20 minutes in the air, absolutely uneventful except some shimmy of the nosewheel on touchdown. I have evidenty loosened the shimmy damper nut too much to get easy steering, so this will have to be tightened up a bit. The engine sings like it enjoys what it is doing, and the temps etc. were all well within limits. The only problem occured when opening the canopy afterwards for the photographer. I wanted a "cool" picture of myself, but that well-known Europa flier grin just sat there! So the stats, Rowland: - Europa XS trigear - Kit no. A225 - Rotax 912ULS - Airmaster A332 with Warp blades - Build time 4 years 9 months - 3300 hrs of which 300 filling and sanding (should have filled less and sanded more, see next item!) - Empty weight, with fairings and all the options plus some, steel nosewheel springs, heavy leather interior trim: 966 lbs (the good thing, though, is that CG is right where it should be at 60.2 in and that the Norwegian CAA has approved 1450 lbs MTOW) A profound "thank you" goes to all on this forum for help and support through the building period; to Andy (whose address I unfortunately do not have), Roger and John at Europa; to Neville (who is worth his weight in gold); and last but not least to my fellow builders here in Norway for invaluable contributions leading up to this most fantastic day! Best regards, Svein LN-SKJ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://wiki.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution --> http://forums.matronics.com http://wiki.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:11 PM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass Steve, It looks like the lay-up under the skin has come through as promised to me if I didn't place a slice of foam under the skin before I glassed the fuel filler in. This is what we did at Flight Crafters as per their recommendation because of that very same thing. Your picture is the first time I've seen it. Is this the only place your experiencing it? I believe this is one of those manual fixes that needed to happen years ago. It's a problem everyone new about but never printed the fix. Do not archive, Jeff A258 Flying off the 40 On Sep 13, 2006, at 3:53 PM, Steve Hagar wrote: > During the 6 yr build in AZ it recieved-that of curing and more.- > However the curing they are talking about is the post curing done on > the fiberglassyou lay up.-- The gelcoated fuselage and wings are > basically fully processed- once you get them.- Other than the > fiberglass bits and pieces you add to them. > - > Steve Hagar > hagargs@earthlink.net > - > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Sent: 9/12/2006 1:35:24 PM > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass > > > Steve- > - > This was one of the topics discussed in the Aeropoxy forum at Oshkosh > this year.- They are a big proponent of post-curing prior to > painting.- They claim that all fiberglass should be post-cured.- I am > a long way from being an expert; that is why I was in the forum.- They > suggest something like 140 degrees for several hours.- Those of us > living in the heat (AZ, FL, etc.) could probably get there by putting > the pieces in the attic for a day.- You may want to talk to them about > your problem.- The other thing they pointed out is that most of the > organizations selling their, and other, products are not well > qualified to address problems such as print through.- You may want to > try contacting them and see if they have a fix prior to doing > anything. > - > Jim Puglise, A-283 > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" > > Hi Steve, > - > I believe what you are seeing is what I have been calling print-thru, > not heat/expansion related.- Print-thru happens on foam cored surfaces > that have something glassed to its back, like the fiber glass > reinforcing for your fuel filler neck.- As your plane ages, you will > find more print-thru on the fuse and wings. > - > regards, > Terry Seaver > - > - > - > > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve > Hagar > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 8:52 AM > To: europa-list > Subject: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass > > - > > This issue had come up before some time ago and-I need my memory > refreshed.- Am flying around in the hot AZ sun and differential > expansion is rearing its ugly head.- This is especially true on the > fuselage right around the area where the fuel filler maniflod is > attached to the inside.- Some very prominent waves have developed in > the skin here.- I am hesitant on filling these to smooth things out.- > I am assuming that it is reasonable to expect that- things- will keep > on moving through temperature cycling.- Does anyone have any history > out there with flying in very hot weather and having the- fiberglass > move around?- Have you found this to settle down after some time?-- > Has anyone come up with a different mounting routine for the manifold > after getting the ripples? > - > Steve Hagar > N40 SH > A143 > 13 hrs > - > - > Steve Hagar > hagargs@earthlink.net > - > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:11 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton Steve not much science really, the gurney flap deflects the airflow under the aileron downwards slightly, which will of course push the aileron up. Thus you should add the flap to the wing that is light to push it down a bit. It definitely works and is much more elegant than bits of aluminium hanging out the back. Easier to adjust too, just add a bit more until it's balanced. Graham Steven Pitt wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steven Pitt" > >Graham >Can you explain more about the 'gurney flap'. My Europa trigear has a heavy >stbd wing and I have (crudely) added an aileron trim to the stbd wing (bent >upwards). I have been meaning to look at the science of this situation - can >you point me in the appropriate direction. >Regards >Steve Pitt > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:29 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp CS curved propeller type --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton Michael we might have time to call, talk to Jim. He will have a better idea of plans. We hope to fly to RR Friday coming back Sunday, I fly back to UK on Wednesday. Graham Michael Grass wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Grass" > > Graham, > > That would be great. Jim is my TC and he lives about 30 minutes from > my house. I have not talked to him for a good year. Actually this is > good timing because I was going to contact him to have another look > at my progress. I might put you to work too if you don't mind. I just > am almost ready to close my wings but my fuselage has progressed quite > a bit with the landing gear installed and the top bonded on. I am > building a little bit out of sequence because of space considerations. > > Michael Grass ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:04 PM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ Svein, I am happy for you and wish you plenty of safe, fast and pleasurerich flights. At least one of them could have a destination EFTP...welcome to show your bird Kilo Juliet to us. Regards, Raimo ============ Raimo M W Toivio OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417, today the heatexchanger went under the silencer. OH-CVK C172 Skyhawk OH-BLL Beechcraft C45 w radial engines (grounded) 37500 Lempaala Finland tel + 358 3 3753 777 fax + 358 3 3753 100 gsm + 358 40 590 1450 raimo.toivio@rwm.fi www.rwm.fi ----- Original Message ----- From: Sidsel & Svein Johnsen To: Europa List ; roger@europa-aircraft.com ; John Wheeler Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:32 PM Subject: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ All, Late this morning I took my Europa XS trigear on its first flight from Kjeller airfield outside Oslo (ENKJ, known to some of the readers of this forum from visits with their Europas). I followed the first flight program recommended in Europa Owner's Manual, but I must admit that I had a very strong urge to take it on a really long flight! Although I have flown the Europa at a demo flight in Lakeland, I still find it an amazing aircraft to fly. So nimble yet so stable. I was checked out on the Diamond Katana a couple of weeks ago - not even close to Europa when it comes to "fun to fly". Left wing is a bit heavy when letting go of the stick, and so am I but whether this is the reason will be checked out on subsequent flights with more equal loading. Clean stall at abt 51 kt, full flap stall at abt 42 kt (to be reconfirmed later in the test program). Left wing drop in both configurations but quite undramatic all told and very easy and quick to recover from the stall. Duration 20 minutes in the air, absolutely uneventful except some shimmy of the nosewheel on touchdown. I have evidenty loosened the shimmy damper nut too much to get easy steering, so this will have to be tightened up a bit. The engine sings like it enjoys what it is doing, and the temps etc. were all well within limits. The only problem occured when opening the canopy afterwards for the photographer. I wanted a "cool" picture of myself, but that well-known Europa flier grin just sat there! So the stats, Rowland: - Europa XS trigear - Kit no. A225 - Rotax 912ULS - Airmaster A332 with Warp blades - Build time 4 years 9 months - 3300 hrs of which 300 filling and sanding (should have filled less and sanded more, see next item!) - Empty weight, with fairings and all the options plus some, steel nosewheel springs, heavy leather interior trim: 966 lbs (the good thing, though, is that CG is right where it should be at 60.2 in and that the Norwegian CAA has approved 1450 lbs MTOW) A profound "thank you" goes to all on this forum for help and support through the building period; to Andy (whose address I unfortunately do not have), Roger and John at Europa; to Neville (who is worth his weight in gold); and last but not least to my fellow builders here in Norway for invaluable contributions leading up to this most fantastic day! Best regards, Svein LN-SKJ ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 03:35:33 PM PST US From: "Jerry Rehn" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass Hi Steve Mine has done the same thing and is very visible. I believe in time they all will do this if exposed to heat (and I live in the not so sunny northwest) and assuming the same construction , I know a few years ago Andy "fixed" the US demo before a show by sanding down and applying fill and bid and refinishing. I believe he also went inside and reduced the attached area of the fuel filler. I also believe he said that structurally there was no issue. Mine has not been "fixed" yet and I tend not to notice it after 4 years. Jerry 645XS Mono 914 ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Hagar To: europa-list Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 8:52 AM Subject: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:51 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: Wing Walk Tape From: "steve v." --> Europa-List message posted by: "steve v." Thanks for the replies, i hadnt thought of a removable surface! - im going to look into it B4 i go any further. thanks again, steve #573 . ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:36 PM PST US From: Rman Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ --> Europa-List message posted by: Rman Jeff, with 2.3 hours left to freedom, how do you sleep at night? :) Time for T Top, again... Jeff Baby Blue - 213 hours and flying every week... do not archive JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > Congratulations Svein! > You have just found out what this is all about. Quite possibly we all > have the nicest 2 seat plane on the planet. Others building will find > it out and thoses of us flying know it. Again congratulations you've > joined the ranks of the flying! > Best Regards > Jeff > N128LJ Gold Rush @ 37.7 hours. Hold on Jeff I'm coming! > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:47 PM PST US From: Rman Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ Svein, Congratulations on what is the finest hour of your journy. Enjoy! Jeff N55XS - Baby Blue Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote: > All, > > Late this morning I took my Europa XS trigear on its first flight from > Kjeller airfield outside Oslo (ENKJ, known to some of the readers of > this forum from visits with their Europas). > > I followed the first flight program recommended in Europa Owner's > Manual, but I must admit that I had a very strong urge to take it on a > really long flight! > > Although I have flown the Europa at a demo flight in Lakeland, I still > find it an amazing aircraft to fly. So nimble yet so stable. I was > checked out on the Diamond Katana a couple of weeks ago - not even > close to Europa when it comes to "fun to fly". > > Left wing is a bit heavy when letting go of the stick, and so am I but > whether this is the reason will be checked out on subsequent flights > with more equal loading. Clean stall at abt 51 kt, full flap stall at > abt 42 kt (to be reconfirmed later in the test program). Left wing > drop in both configurations but quite undramatic all told and very > easy and quick to recover from the stall. > > Duration 20 minutes in the air, absolutely uneventful except some > shimmy of the nosewheel on touchdown. I have evidenty loosened the > shimmy damper nut too much to get easy steering, so this will have to > be tightened up a bit. > The engine sings like it enjoys what it is doing, and the temps etc. > were all well within limits. > > The only problem occured when opening the canopy afterwards for the > photographer. I wanted a "cool" picture of myself, but that > well-known Europa flier grin just sat there! > > So the stats, Rowland: > > - Europa XS trigear > - Kit no. A225 > - Rotax 912ULS > - Airmaster A332 with Warp blades > - Build time 4 years 9 months - 3300 hrs of which 300 filling and > sanding (should have filled less and sanded more, see next item!) > - Empty weight, with fairings and all the options plus some, steel > nosewheel springs, heavy leather interior trim: 966 lbs > (the good thing, though, is that CG is right where it should be at > 60.2 in and that the Norwegian CAA has approved 1450 lbs MTOW) > > A profound "thank you" goes to all on this forum for help and support > through the building period; to Andy (whose address I unfortunately do > not have), Roger and John at Europa; to Neville (who is worth his > weight in gold); and last but not least to my fellow builders here in > Norway for invaluable contributions leading up to this most fantastic day! > <> > Best regards, > Svein > LN-SKJ > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:41 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Hi Steve, A picture IS worth a thousand words, this does not look like ours. Our 'print-thru' areas are exact replications of the glass bonded to the other (inside) side of the skin. Yours seems more like ripples in the fuselage. I haven't seen anything like it before. regards, Terry ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hagar Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:35 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass Terry : I have seen what you are talking about, this seems to be a little more extreme, I have attached a photo. Steve. Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Seaver (terrys) To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: 9/12/2006 9:55:19 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass Hi Steve, I believe what you are seeing is what I have been calling print-thru, not heat/expansion related. Print-thru happens on foam cored surfaces that have something glassed to its back, like the fiber glass reinforcing for your fuel filler neck. As your plane ages, you will find more print-thru on the fuse and wings. regards, Terry Seaver