---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/13/06: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:17 AM - First flight LN-SKJ (Justin Kennedy) 2. 02:26 AM - Xenon pics, cowling holes (Raimo Toivio) 3. 08:14 AM - Re: First flight LN-SKJ (JEFF ROBERTS) 4. 08:15 AM - Re: Moving fiberglass (Fred Klein) 5. 08:28 AM - [Fw: Release of REVISED MANDATORY Rotax Service Bulletins And NEW Service Instructions For 912 & 914 Series Engines] (Gilles Thesee) 6. 08:30 AM - Re: landinglight. (Fred Klein) 7. 08:52 AM - Re: First flight LN-SKJ (JEFF ROBERTS) 8. 11:05 AM - Re: Re: Wing Walk Tape (Raimo Toivio) 9. 11:47 AM - Re: prop bolts (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 10. 11:56 AM - Re: Moving fiberglass (JEFF ROBERTS) 11. 12:01 PM - Re: First flight LN-SKJ (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 12. 12:10 PM - Re: First flight LN-SKJ (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 13. 12:14 PM - Re: First flight LN-SKJ (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 14. 01:06 PM - Nosewheel shimmy (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 15. 01:20 PM - Re: First flight LN-SKJ (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 16. 01:26 PM - Re: Nosewheel shimmy (Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com) 17. 02:41 PM - Re: prop bolts (Paul Stewart) 18. 03:17 PM - Re: First flight LN-SKJ (Graham Singleton) 19. 03:39 PM - Re: Nosewheel shimmy (Richard Iddon) 20. 06:11 PM - Re: Moving fiberglass (Fred Klein) 21. 06:45 PM - Re: Nosewheel shimmy (Rman) 22. 06:52 PM - Re: Moving fiberglass (Steve Hagar) 23. 07:04 PM - Dodgy Regulator - Update (MJKTuck@cs.com) 24. 08:43 PM - Re: Moving fiberglass (JEFF ROBERTS) 25. 09:48 PM - Re: Nosewheel shimmy (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:17:02 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ From: "Justin Kennedy" Well done Svein. Nothing quite like that feeling? I have been flying mine for a year and I still have the grin. It may need to be surgically removed. On the subject of the "heavy" left wing. My monowheel G-ZTED had a heavy right wing and I went through all the aileron trim device ideas. Simon Smith was doing his test flying in his new Trigear at our airfield at Perth (Scotland not Australia) and he had the same. He told me that he had just put a few mixing sticks behind the flap on the heavy side so that it did not retract the last wee bit and that solved it. He will no doubt fit a more permanent arrangement. As a result of this Pearl of Wisdom (thanks Simon) I then spent an afternoon making my left wing flap retract forwards a further 3mm by taking off a few high spots on the top of the flap close out and sanding down the stops I had put in. I found the high spots by sliding old fashioned typists carbon paper behind the closed flap. I am told if the flaps are retracted slightly more than the design position you get more speed. Well, I don't know about that but I have completely solved the heavy wing problem. No need for aileron trim and the associated weight/complication/mod permission that goes with it. I am no expert but this did seem like a neat solution. I think I am right in saying that the build the accuracy of the closed flap is what determines the setting of the fully retracted position. The 3mm for and aft translates to slightly less than 2mm up and down at the trailing edge. This built in inaccuracy made for a heavy enough wing to spoil the fun. All better now. I still can't believe how much fun this aeroplane is to fly. Justin Kennedy G-ZTED Europa Classic Monowheel 912S Airmaster Edinburgh Scotland ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:26:29 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Europa-List: Xenon pics, cowling holes Ron and all, here is a link, if you want to look my Xenon intallation. I feel an Experimental mode. Scroll down a while and you will find some Europa related pics and some other nice aviation pics. There should appear 6 pcs of Xenon pics. If you want to know more, I am here... http://www.rwm.fi/t_u_o_t_t_e_e_t_photogallery/muut_toiminnot_links/ One notice more: all the hardware is fitted to plane itself - so the cowlings are removable w/o unconnecting ANY wires etc (only two 2" airpipe must remove from lower cowling). My idea is to NOT make any acces doors to the upper cowling and keep it=B4s surface as clean as possible. Upper cowling is fitted by Cam Locks so it is away in a minute. And when it is away man can check easily all the other thing also with water and oil. All together 10 holes (+ prop!) are definetely enough - no more please. Kind Regards, Raimo ================ Raimo M W Toivio OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417 (last night heat exchanger under the silencer...) OH-CVK C172 Skyhawk OH-BLL Beechcraft C45 w radial engines (grounded) 37500 Lempaala Finland tel + 358 3 3753 777 fax + 358 3 3753 100 gsm + 358 40 590 1450 raimo.toivio@rwm.fi www.rwm.fi ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:48 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Hi Jeff, Unfortunately, Ken hasn't done any fly-ins this year but he said anytime I want to invite people to fly-in and camp they are very welcome. Just let me know if you and Mary want to come up for a private camp out and some cold ones. As far as excitement for flying it's been a bit sidelined as we are very close to completing our hanger / Apartment on the 10 acres I showed you. Riding my bike around the block to fly out of T-Top is just around the corner. By the time I drive to Smyrna airport and get around their increasing security, take the 3 mile, 15 MPH road around the airport through the National Guard area to my full hanger. Move my buddies airplane I've used up 45 minutes to an hour. Soon I'll be able to get to the cockpit in under 5 minutes. With my schedule it will make a BIG difference in flying time. I will be installing the coolant shutoff soon and be back in the air. Ah second thought after seeing the forcast for the end of the week I think I'll wait and fly the last 2.3 hours off first. OK I guess I'm excited! I'll let you know when the leash is off Gold Rush. Regards, Jeff On Sep 12, 2006, at 9:40 PM, Rman wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: Rman > > Jeff, with 2.3 hours left to freedom, how do you sleep at night? :) > Time for T Top, again... > > Jeff > Baby Blue - 213 hours and flying every week... > > do not archive > > JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > >> Congratulations Svein! >> You have just found out what this is all about. Quite possibly we all >> have the nicest 2 seat plane on the planet. Others building will find >> it out and thoses of us flying know it. Again congratulations you've >> joined the ranks of the flying! >> Best Regards >> Jeff >> N128LJ Gold Rush @ 37.7 hours. Hold on Jeff I'm coming! >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:04 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass From: Fred Klein --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein Jeff, Can you more fully describe the "slice of foam"...thickness?...extent? Was it bonded to the fuselage?...or does it "float" in some fashion? Fred On Tuesday, September 12, 2006, at 02:19 PM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > Steve, > It looks like the lay-up under the skin has come through as promised > to me if I didn't place a slice of foam under the skin before I > glassed the fuel filler in. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:13 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Europa-List: [Fwd: Release of REVISED MANDATORY Rotax Service Bulletins And NEW Service Instructions For 912 & 914 Series Engines] --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee Hear ye, FWIW, Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr -------- Message original -------- Sujet: Release of REVISED MANDATORY Rotax Service Bulletins And NEW Service Instructions For 912 & 914 Series Engines De: updates@rotax-owner.com Rpondre : updates@rotax-owner.com Pour: gilles.thesee@free.fr Dear Registered User; The following REVISED MANDATORY SERVICE BULLETINS have been released by Rotax: SB-912-043 SB-914-029 SB-912-043UL SB-914-029UL CHANGE OF COOLANT SPECIFICATION ON ROTAX ENGINE TYPE 912 AND 914 (SERIES) These new Service Bulletins may be downloaded from www.rotax-owner.com SB-912-043 - http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/getdoc.asp?USERID=aiprt&DOCID=SB-912-043&S_TYPE=NW SB-914-029 - http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/getdoc.asp?USERID=aiprt&DOCID=SB-914-029&S_TYPE=NW SB-912-043UL - http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/getdoc.asp?USERID=aiprt&DOCID=SB-912-043UL&S_TYPE=NW SB-914-029UL - http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/getdoc.asp?USERID=aiprt&DOCID=SB-914-029UL&S_TYPE=NW ** Important Note! Rotax releases separate Service Bulletins for non-certified engine models. These service bulletins only contain information regarding the non-certified engine models affected by the service bulletin. Full service bulletin information and instructions are found in the certified service bulletin (without the UL designator). Owners and operators of non-certified engine models must download and review both the certified and UL versions of the service bulletin to obtain complete service information. SB-912-043 R1 /SB-914-029 R1 also requires the revision of several operator's and installation manuals. As service to Rotax Owners Association News users, these manual updates have been posted to the Rotax Owners Association News web site ( www.rotax-owner.com/manualrev/09_11_2006/mrSB9_043_029R1.htm ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ In addition the following NEW SERVICE INSTRUCTIONS have been released by Rotax: SI-912-016 SI-914-019 SELECTION OF SUITABLE OPERATING FLUIDS FOR ROTAX ENGINE TYPE 912 AND 914 (SERIES) These new Service Instructions may be downloaded from www.rotax-owner.com SI-912-016 - http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/getdoc.asp?USERID=aiprt&DOCID=SI-912-016&S_TYPE=NW SI-914-019 - http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/getdoc.asp?USERID=aiprt&DOCID=SI-914-019&S_TYPE=NW ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Supplemental Information for Rotax Service Bulletins SB-912-043 R1 / SB-914-029 R1 This supplemental information is intended to provide additional background regarding the changes to the coolant specification as set out in Rotax Service Bulletins SB-912-043 R1 / SB-914-029 R1. THIS SUPPLEMENTAL INFORMATION IS GENERAL IN NATURE AND IS NOT INTENDED TO REPLACE THE INFORMATION PROVIDED IN THE SERVICE BULLETINS. ALL OWNERS, OPERATORS AND MAINTENANCE PERSONNEL SHOULD OBTAIN AND CAREFULLY REVIEW THE FULL TEXT OF EACH SERVICE BULLETIN. After an investigation into a few isolated field reports, it was discovered that in some instances conventional 50/50 water - glycol coolant mixture could begin to boil off before the maximum cylinder head temperature was reached. To address this issue and maintain the highest level of flight safety, Rotax issued the initial version of Service Bulletin SB-912-043 / SB-914-029 in September 2004. This bulletin changed the coolant specification for the 912 & 914 engines from a 50 / 50 water - glycol mixture to a 'waterless' coolant with a much higher boiling point. This change was made to insure that coolant boil off could not occur in any circumstances provided that the engine CHT limits were respected. Subsequent to the initial release of Service Bulletin SB-912-043 / SB-914-029, Rotax has continued to examine this issue, and now recognizes that for some 912 & 914 engine installations conventional 50/50 water - glycol mixture coolant may be a viable alternative. Conventional 50/50 water - glycol coolant solution is inexpensive, readily available and has excellent heat transfer properties. Understanding the benefits provided by conventional water - glycol coolant in some applications, Rotax has now released a new revision of Service Bulletin SB-912-043 / SB-914-029. With the release Service Bulletin SB-912-043 R1 / SB-914-029 R1, use of conventional 50/50 water - glycol coolant is once again allowed, provided certain conditions can be met. In order for a 912 or 914 series engine to be safely operated with conventional water - glycol coolant, SB-912-043 R1 / SB-914-029 R1 mandates that both cylinder head temperatures AND coolant exit temperature must be monitored at all times. Coolant exit temperature must never exceed the boiling point of 50/50 water - glycol coolant mixture AND engine cylinder head temperatures must never exceed the maximum permissible values set out in the appropriate engine Operators Manual. To meet these requirements a coolant temperature sensor and cockpit mounted coolant temperature gauge must be installed in addition to CHT instrumentation. The coolant temperature sensor must be installed in the coolant line between the outlet of the expansion tank and the inlet of the coolant radiator (please refer to the Cooling System section of the appropriate engine installation manual for more details). Installation of the coolant temperature sensor must not impede or restrict the coolant flow. The installed coolant temperature gauge must be appropriately marked with the maximum allowable coolant exit temperature. Installation of the coolant temperature sensor and gauge will allow the pilot to monitor the coolant temperature throughout the entire engine operational range. If for any reason the coolant temperature approaches or exceeds the maximum permissible value (approx. 120? C (248? F) in a cooling system pressurized to 18 psi (1.2 bar)) the pilot will be able to take the appropriate action (reduce power setting and / or terminate flight). Once again, installation of a coolant temperature gauge DOES NOT alter the requirements for the monitoring of engine cylinder head temperatures and respecting published CHT limits. In some aircraft installations, the liquid cooling system may not be able to maintain a coolant exit temperature below the boiling point of conventional 50/50 water - glycol coolant. This may be due to the size of the coolant radiator, the design of the engine cowling, operating profile, or other related factors. In applications where the coolant exit temperature may exceed the boiling point of conventional water - glycol coolant, SB-912-043 R1 / SB-914-029 R1 requires the use of 'waterless' coolant only. When 'waterless' coolant is used, monitoring of the coolant exit temperature is not required. The boiling point of the 'waterless' coolant is higher than the maximum allowable cylinder head temperature, therefore the coolant cannot be boiled off without exceeding the engine CHT limits. Use of 'waterless' coolant DOES NOT alter the requirements for the monitoring of engine cylinder head temperatures and respecting published CHT limits. In cases where 'waterless' coolant is used and engine cylinder head temperatures exceed the maximum permissible values, the coolant system must be repaired or modified in such a manner as to increase the cooling capacity of the system. More information regarding coolants for 912 & 914 series engines, including recommended brand names, can be found in Rotax Service Information SI-912-016 / SI-914-019 (August 2006). All owners & operators of 912 & 914 series engines should obtain a copy of this Service Information document. If there is any question regarding the selection of the correct coolant for a particular engine installation, the engine owner / operator is strongly encouraged to contact the nearest authorized Rotax Service Center or their aircraft manufacturer. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail update is provided as a free service to registered users. Register with Rotax Owners Association News today! ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: landinglight. From: Fred Klein --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein For those of you with my polycarbonate wingtip lighting covers, I've just spoken w/ Bill VonDane @ www.creativair.com and he will have a Xenon landing/taxi light option available in a couple of weeks as a substitute for the Halogen bulbs in his units which allow a combination of LED position lights, landing/taxi lights, and low profile strobes, all of which will fit within the wingtip. Fred A194 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:38 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Sorry guy's. I meant for the last message to Jeff R-MAN to go direct but hit the wrong button. Do Not Archive. Jeff R. On Sep 13, 2006, at 10:06 AM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS > > Hi Jeff, > Unfortunately, Ken hasn't done any fly-ins this year but he said > anytime I want to invite people to fly-in and camp they are very > welcome. Just let me know if you and Mary want to come up for a > private camp out and some cold ones. > As far as excitement for flying it's been a bit sidelined as we are > very close to completing our hanger / Apartment on the 10 acres I > showed you. Riding my bike around the block to fly out of T-Top is > just around the corner. By the time I drive to Smyrna airport and get > around their increasing security, take the 3 mile, 15 MPH road around > the airport through the National Guard area to my full hanger. Move my > buddies airplane I've used up 45 minutes to an hour. Soon I'll be able > to get to the cockpit in under 5 minutes. With my schedule it will > make a BIG difference in flying time. I will be installing the coolant > shutoff soon and be back in the air. Ah second thought after seeing > the forcast for the end of the week I think I'll wait and fly the last > 2.3 hours off first. OK I guess I'm excited! > I'll let you know when the leash is off Gold Rush. > Regards, > Jeff > > On Sep 12, 2006, at 9:40 PM, Rman wrote: > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: Rman >> >> Jeff, with 2.3 hours left to freedom, how do you sleep at night? :) >> Time for T Top, again... >> >> Jeff >> Baby Blue - 213 hours and flying every week... >> >> do not archive >> >> JEFF ROBERTS wrote: >> >>> Congratulations Svein! >>> You have just found out what this is all about. Quite possibly we >>> all have the nicest 2 seat plane on the planet. Others building will >>> find it out and thoses of us flying know it. Again congratulations >>> you've joined the ranks of the flying! >>> Best Regards >>> Jeff >>> N128LJ Gold Rush @ 37.7 hours. Hold on Jeff I'm coming! >>> >>> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:05:07 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Wing Walk Tape --> Europa-List message posted by: "Raimo Toivio" What a nice idea! I found "Premium Grip Liner - Multi Purpose non-slip super-grip liner". One roll is in my hand just now. Machine washable. Non adhesive. White or black. The size is 20in X 5ft. Enough for two wings. Price just 10 euros or about 15$. Manufacturer is Henkel Cheshire UK. Please check Consumer Services technical.services@henkel.co.uk Regards, Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve v." Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:55 AM Subject: Europa-List: RE: Wing Walk Tape > --> Europa-List message posted by: "steve v." > > Thanks for the replies, > i hadnt thought of a removable surface! - im going to look into it B4 > i go any further. > > thanks again, steve #573 . > ---------------- > Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:47:11 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Re: Europa-List: prop bolts Mike, Indeed - that is the difference! This thread started with a question on what to do if one could not get the wrench directly onto the bolt because of tight space. That was the concept I had in my head when I replied to you. Best regards Svein LN-SKJ ----- Original Message ----- From: DuaneFamly@aol.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:15 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: prop bolts Svein, Please have no fear at offending me as I feel this is a very good example of a learning discussion and I appreciate your input. Now back to the discussion, I understand your point and equations in this discussion. My only concern is changing the setting of the torque wrench. I feel that no matter what length spanner is added to the end of the torque wrench, the only thing that changes is the amount of force your hand needs to exert in order to achieve the torque wrench setting and get the click. If a bolt needs to be torqued at 50 inch lbs, then the torque wrench needs to be set at 50 inch lbs. Unless you are saying that the spanner extension is on the bolt and then the torque wrench is attached to the end of the spanner? My idea is that the torque wrench is on the bolt. Is this the difference in our points of view? Mike Duane Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:07 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Fred, It was a piece like the one under the door sill. We bonded it to the fuselage then covered it in 2 layers of bid. The goal is that the filler tube is not in direct contact with the skin. I cannot answer why this has kept the outside skin straight but I have never seen a problem. Others that have gone through the Florida build center have said the same. Regards, Jeff A258 Headed to the airport tonight! On Sep 13, 2006, at 10:14 AM, Fred Klein wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein > > Jeff, > > Can you more fully describe the "slice of foam"...thickness?...extent? > Was it bonded to the fuselage?...or does it "float" in some fashion? > > Fred > > On Tuesday, September 12, 2006, at 02:19 PM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > >> Steve, >> It looks like the lay-up under the skin has come through as promised >> to me if I didn't place a slice of foam under the skin before I >> glassed the fuel filler in. > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:10 PM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ Bob, Interesting thought, but the wash-out is not the cause in my case. I am not familiar with the term "accellerated factory built wings". The kit I bought from the factory 5 years ago came with the wing ribs in place (but not reinforced to the beam and bottom panel), bottom panel, leading edge and top panel (actually, the seam between bottom and top panel is at the l.e.). Apart from bid reinforcements, aileron weight boxes, meachanics, etc, the only major thing was to glue on the top panel. For this weights (sand bags) were used, and if one did not support the underside of the wing in the process, one could conceivably introduce a twist, i.e. change the washout. On my wings I checked the washout and it was fine. I did not check it in absolute terms because I did not have a proper template for the tip section, but I checked that the tip on both wings had the same difference in angle between root and tip when placing the flap installation template on the two positions. Also, I checked the aileron and flap washout (factory built, termed "accellerated kit") and they had exactly the same and correct washout as per the manual. Finally, I rechecked the washout on my wings this afternoon, and even with a very accurate bubble level I could not see any difference. So maybe the incidence angle of the whole left wing on my plane is the cause of this wing being "heavy" in my case? No, the left wing is actually a small fraction more up at the root than the right one (whether this is the cause of the left wing drop in stall I cannot say for sure, but theoretically it should stall just a little before the right one). Best regards Svein LN-SKJ ----- Original Message ----- From: R.C.Harrison To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:11 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ Hi! Svein, Congratulations on your achievement. Just this afternoon I was with Roger Cullum who built the original G-OGAN polystyrene wings . He is currently assisting the build of another Europa XS and we believe that the wings are from an "accelerated" build kit, he was checking out the washout of both wings whilst he still hasn't closed them out with the last bottom skin. We are given to understand that on the accelerated kit the leading edge and upper surfaces are allowed to cure in a mould. ( we expect two moulds one for each wing) On checking the underside of each of the wings we found that the washout on the Starboard wing is =BD degree under the requisite 2 =BD degrees. Compared to the Port wing being correct. I suggested that prop wash may either compensate or indeed aggravate the difference but we didn't have time to closely consider the matter. Hearing about your "left" wing drop makes me wonder if our "wash out differing wings" may be a common issue on all accelerated wings? Were you totally confident of identical wing washout on your bird? And was it "ACCELLERATED FACTORY BUILT WINGS.? Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MK1.Kit 337. Robt.C.Harrison ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:10:44 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Hi Svein, I think it may be a little soon to say you actually have a 'heavy wing', since (as I understand it) you haven't flown with two people of equal weight. Even with two people of almost the same weight, our plane would bank in the direction of the person weighing just 10 pounds more than the other, right or left. regards, Terry Seaver ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein Johnsen Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 12:00 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ Bob, Interesting thought, but the wash-out is not the cause in my case. I am not familiar with the term "accellerated factory built wings". The kit I bought from the factory 5 years ago came with the wing ribs in place (but not reinforced to the beam and bottom panel), bottom panel, leading edge and top panel (actually, the seam between bottom and top panel is at the l.e.). Apart from bid reinforcements, aileron weight boxes, meachanics, etc, the only major thing was to glue on the top panel. For this weights (sand bags) were used, and if one did not support the underside of the wing in the process, one could conceivably introduce a twist, i.e. change the washout. On my wings I checked the washout and it was fine. I did not check it in absolute terms because I did not have a proper template for the tip section, but I checked that the tip on both wings had the same difference in angle between root and tip when placing the flap installation template on the two positions. Also, I checked the aileron and flap washout (factory built, termed "accellerated kit") and they had exactly the same and correct washout as per the manual. Finally, I rechecked the washout on my wings this afternoon, and even with a very accurate bubble level I could not see any difference. So maybe the incidence angle of the whole left wing on my plane is the cause of this wing being "heavy" in my case? No, the left wing is actually a small fraction more up at the root than the right one (whether this is the cause of the left wing drop in stall I cannot say for sure, but theoretically it should stall just a little before the right one). Best regards Svein LN-SKJ ... ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:32 PM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Graham, Appreciate your suggestion re. wing drop cure (may ask you for some more details if I go that route), but what about risk of introducing flutter in the aileron?? I would like to make some kind of arrangement, and there are some suggestions on this forum in addition to yours, but I also have the Navaid wing leveller installed. Will try it next time, but I am anxious to find out if the stick vibration I get on the ground is gone when there is some load on the ailerons (I cannot understand why they have made with such a small deadband on the servo feedback - they even write about it in the manual - - - ). Best regards, Svein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Singleton" Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:06 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ > --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton > > > Svein > Congratulations, I envy you the opportunity to fly all over Scandinavia. > Say hello to Jos for me when you get to Ivalo ;-) > A "gurney flap" is the easy way to correct a heavy wing. That is around > 150mm of P section draft excluder stuck under the trailing edge of the > right aileron (for a left wing heavy) Adjust the the length of strip to > trim level in the cruise. It has the advantage that no one will notice it > except you. > Graham > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:10 PM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Europa-List: Nosewheel shimmy --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" All with trigear: I mentioned in my brief report on my first flight yesterday that I experienced shimmy in the nosewheel on touchdown, and assumed that I had loosened the castle nut on top too much. What I found today was that the force required to turn the nosewheel was only abt. 7 lbs vs 18-20 as recommended in the Builders Manual . Main reason: The whole top surface of the friction disk was covered by grease - the o-ring evidently had not provided a good enough seal against the grease pressed into the bearing above. I cleaned it carefully and set the friction as per the B.M. and did a taxi test. Slow taxi around the hangars and fuelling station etc. requires of course more active use of the differential brakes, but I did not find this to be as awkward as when I started the ground testing - one does get used to it. The good thing is that the steering was very responsive by use of rudder only when rolling down the runway at speed, even at idle like after landing. So I will leave it that setting and hopefully the shimmy is gone. - Checking for grease will definitely be done frequently, does not take long anyway. Best regards, Svein LN-SKJ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:08 PM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ Hi Terry, Interesting input, supporting my first thought expressed in my message yesterday. That is what David Bossomworth called the "cookie test" , I think it was, when he took me up as passenger: " Now I will let go of the stick, and the plane will tell who ate the most cookies" . Right wing drop! Best regards, Svein LN-SKJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Seaver (terrys) To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 9:09 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ Hi Svein, I think it may be a little soon to say you actually have a 'heavy wing', since (as I understand it) you haven't flown with two people of equal weight. Even with two people of almost the same weight, our plane would bank in the direction of the person weighing just 10 pounds more than the other, right or left. regards, Terry Seaver ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein Johnsen Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 12:00 PM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ Bob, Interesting thought, but the wash-out is not the cause in my case. I am not familiar with the term "accellerated factory built wings". The kit I bought from the factory 5 years ago came with the wing ribs in place (but not reinforced to the beam and bottom panel), bottom panel, leading edge and top panel (actually, the seam between bottom and top panel is at the l.e.). Apart from bid reinforcements, aileron weight boxes, meachanics, etc, the only major thing was to glue on the top panel. For this weights (sand bags) were used, and if one did not support the underside of the wing in the process, one could conceivably introduce a twist, i.e. change the washout. On my wings I checked the washout and it was fine. I did not check it in absolute terms because I did not have a proper template for the tip section, but I checked that the tip on both wings had the same difference in angle between root and tip when placing the flap installation template on the two positions. Also, I checked the aileron and flap washout (factory built, termed "accellerated kit") and they had exactly the same and correct washout as per the manual. Finally, I rechecked the washout on my wings this afternoon, and even with a very accurate bubble level I could not see any difference. So maybe the incidence angle of the whole left wing on my plane is the cause of this wing being "heavy" in my case? No, the left wing is actually a small fraction more up at the root than the right one (whether this is the cause of the left wing drop in stall I cannot say for sure, but theoretically it should stall just a little before the right one). Best regards Svein LN-SKJ ... ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nosewheel shimmy From: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com Hi Svein, Did you check out Steve V's posting of 26/05/06 regarding Nyeogel 744VH damping grease ? Dave do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:16 PM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Re: Europa-List: prop bolts I seem to have started a very learned discussion on this topic. As the person who asked what to do when you can't get the wrench directly on the bolt all I can say is Svein's solution works what ever the theory. Using the spanner/wrench combination, the torque wrench 'clicks' at exactly the same point as torque wrench alone on my simple bench comparison. Many congratulations on your first flight Svein - perhaps one day we will follow suit. Regards Paul G-GIDY On 13 Sep 2006, at 19:46, Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote: > Mike, > > Indeed - that is the difference! This thread started with a > question on what to do if one could not get the wrench directly > onto the bolt because of tight space. That was the concept I had in > my head when I replied to you. > > > Best regards > Svein > LN-SKJ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DuaneFamly@aol.com > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:15 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: prop bolts > > Svein, > > Please have no fear at offending me as I feel this is a very good > example of a learning discussion and I appreciate your input. > > Now back to the discussion, I understand your point and equations > in this discussion. My only concern is changing the setting of the > torque wrench. I feel that no matter what length spanner is added > to the end of the torque wrench, the only thing that changes is the > amount of force your hand needs to exert in order to achieve the > torque wrench setting and get the click. If a bolt needs to be > torqued at 50 inch lbs, then the torque wrench needs to be set at > 50 inch lbs. > > Unless you are saying that the spanner extension is on the bolt and > then the torque wrench is attached to the end of the spanner? My > idea is that the torque wrench is on the bolt. Is this the > difference in our points of view? > > > Mike Duane > Redding, California > XS Conventional Gear > Jabiru 3300 > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List_- > ============================================================ _- > forums.matronics.com_- > ============================================================ _- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > =========================================================== > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:02 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight LN-SKJ --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton Svein In fact there will be less risk of flutter, or more correctly "short period oscillation". The boundary layer at the trailing edge is thick, maybe 20 or 30mm? (guess) Flutter is caused by resonance, the aileron bouncing against the stable part of the airflow. The gurney flap, maybe it should be called a single side Flettner Strip, bites into the streamlined airflow sooner than the plain trailing edge. This was exactly why the full flettner strip on the elevator trim tab cured the short period oscillation of the elevator. Ivan and I found it on an early flight in G-YURO, I let go the stick a fraction of a second before Ivan took hold, with a little bit of stick force. Very odd feeling! I know what you mean about Navaids rattling on the ground. Never did understand it though, Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" > > > Graham, > > Appreciate your suggestion re. wing drop cure (may ask you for some > more details if I go that route), but what about risk of introducing > flutter in the aileron?? > > I would like to make some kind of arrangement, and there are some > suggestions on this forum in addition to yours, but I also have the > Navaid wing leveller installed. Will try it next time, but I am > anxious to find out if the stick vibration I get on the ground is gone > when there is some load on the ailerons (I cannot understand why they > have made with such a small deadband on the servo feedback - they even > write about it in the manual - - - ). > > Best regards, > Svein ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:14 PM PST US From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Nosewheel shimmy I have used Neogel damping or friction grease on my nosewheel and taxiing is much easier now. Most of the time I can taxi just using rudder. Only if downwind or at very slow speeds do I need to use the brakes. No nose wheel shimmy either. Richard Iddon. G-RIXS -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com Sent: 13 September 2006 21:27 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nosewheel shimmy Hi Svein, Did you check out Steve V's posting of 26/05/06 regarding Nyeogel 744VH damping grease ? Dave do not archive "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Europa-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion -- 12/09/2006 -- 12/09/2006 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass From: Fred Klein --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein Jeff, By referencing the piece of foam "under the door sill", I take it you're referring to the 1/8" thick foam sheet...(?) Fred On Wednesday, September 13, 2006, at 11:55 AM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS > > Fred, > It was a piece like the one under the door sill. We bonded it to the > fuselage then covered it in 2 layers of bid. The goal is that the > filler tube is not in direct contact with the skin. I cannot answer > why this has kept the outside skin straight but I have never seen a > problem. Others that have gone through the Florida build center have > said the same. > Regards, > Jeff > A258 Headed to the airport tonight! ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:33 PM PST US From: Rman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nosewheel shimmy My experience pretty much mirrors Richards. The only shimmy I've experienced, since using the Nyogel is when I let the nose down a bit soon/hard. It stops when I lighten the pressure on the nose and let is rest, naturally, as the plane loses airspeed. Steering is much improved... Jeff Baby Blue Richard Iddon wrote: > I have used Neogel damping or friction grease on my nosewheel and > taxiing is much easier now. Most of the time I can taxi just using > rudder. Only if downwind or at very slow speeds do I need to use the > brakes. No nose wheel shimmy either. > > > > Richard Iddon. G-RIXS > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com > Sent: 13 September 2006 21:27 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nosewheel shimmy > > > > > Hi Svein, > > Did you check out Steve V's posting of 26/05/06 regarding Nyeogel > 744VH damping grease ? > > Dave > > do not archive > > > > > > - The Europa-List Email Forum - > > --> > > - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > > --> > > - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - > > --> > > - List Contribution Web Site - > > Thank you for your generous support! > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > --> > > > > > -- > 12/09/2006 > > > -- > 12/09/2006 > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:31 PM PST US From: "Steve Hagar" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" Alasdair: After thinking about it for awhile I have come to that conclusion. The plan is to get the dremel tool out and cut the straps attaching the manifold to the fuselage skin. Push the beast out in the driveway under the AZ sun for a weekend and see if it flows out back. I put a couple of good ripples in my wing by carrying it improperly and the fiberglass flowed out and smoothed nicely on a balmy 105F day. The manifiold will be then gingerly attached with some pliable RTV type material or a single strap with a very large radius stress relief in it. Thanks, Steve Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: A B Milne > To: > Date: 9/13/2006 12:03:19 AM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass > > --> Europa-List message posted by: A B Milne > > The version of the wrinkling or waving of the fuselage skin on my aircraft was > below the filler and before the joint line of the fuselage halves. It was > caused by the fuel tank permanently distorting by the weight of fuel and > pulling on the filler tube via the 'flexible' hose. The builder's manual > instructs the builder to strap this filler tube to the fuselage skin in the > wrinkled area. The cure was to cut this strap and free the tube from the > fuselage. The wrinkles came out over a period of days in hot weather (for the > UK: max about 32C). So far after 3 months I have seen no other effects around > the filler and the filler to fuselage seal. > > Alasdair Milne G-CBYN > > Quoting Steve Hagar : > > > This issue had come up before some time ago and I need my memory > > refreshed. Am flying around in the hot AZ sun and differential > > expansion is rearing its ugly head. This is especially true on the > > fuselage right around the area where the fuel filler maniflod is > > attached to the inside. Some very prominent waves have developed in > > the skin here. I am hesitant on filling these to smooth things out. > > I am assuming that it is reasonable to expect that things will keep > > on moving through temperature cycling. Does anyone have any history > > out there with flying in very hot weather and having the fiberglass > > move around? Have you found this to settle down after some time? > > Has anyone come up with a different mounting routine for the manifold > > after getting the ripples? > > > > Steve Hagar > > N40 SH > > A143 > > 13 hrs > > > > > > Steve Hagar > > hagargs@earthlink.net > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:06 PM PST US From: MJKTuck@cs.com Subject: Europa-List: Dodgy Regulator - Update Hi Folks, I fitted my new regulator today - oh why did I use regular stiff nuts on those bolts which meant I had to remove the panel?! Ah yes, the joy of removing the panel. If I had to do it again I would do a whole lot of things differently/better - maybe we ought to compile a database? Anyway, test flown and all is well - a steady 14 volts indicated throughout the whole flight, which incidentally took me to my highest altitude ever in my Europa 11,500 ft. Not bad for a 912 with a fixed prop. I was still doing 300 fpm. Thanks for all the advice on the subject. Regards, Martin Tuck Europa N152MT Wichita, Kansas ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:42 PM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Moving fiberglass --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Yes. It's been a couple of years but it was about the same. Jeff A258 Just had the best evening of flying in the central USA in months! On Sep 13, 2006, at 8:09 PM, Fred Klein wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein > > Jeff, > > By referencing the piece of foam "under the door sill", I take it > you're referring to the 1/8" thick foam sheet...(?) > > Fred > > On Wednesday, September 13, 2006, at 11:55 AM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS >> >> Fred, >> It was a piece like the one under the door sill. We bonded it to the >> fuselage then covered it in 2 layers of bid. The goal is that the >> filler tube is not in direct contact with the skin. I cannot answer >> why this has kept the outside skin straight but I have never seen a >> problem. Others that have gone through the Florida build center have >> said the same. >> Regards, >> Jeff >> A258 Headed to the airport tonight! > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:18 PM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nosewheel shimmy Dave, Thanks for reminding me of that one. Yes, I did at the time check for damping grease here in Norway but without luck. I am afraid that sourcing it from overseas will mean expensive freight due to "oily" products, but I will look into that. Do you happen to know of any internet supplier? Best regards, Svein ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 10:26 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nosewheel shimmy Hi Svein, Did you check out Steve V's posting of 26/05/06 regarding Nyeogel 744VH damping grease ? Dave do not archive