Today's Message Index:
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1. 11:58 AM - Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? ()
2. 12:29 PM - Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? (Simon Smith)
3. 12:41 PM - Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? (Karl Heindl)
4. 12:44 PM - Trim Servo Ind. RF Cable Again... (steve v.)
5. 01:57 PM - Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? (Graham Singleton)
6. 02:19 PM - Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? (Terry Seaver (terrys))
7. 02:31 PM - mass balance [was: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead?] (Rowland Carson)
8. 02:42 PM - Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? ()
9. 03:20 PM - Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? (danbish)
10. 03:34 PM - Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? (SteveD)
11. 04:02 PM - EuropaOwners is Moving (SteveD)
12. 04:24 PM - Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? (Paul McAllister)
13. 08:37 PM - Secure ring of Andair 375 gasculator ()
14. 08:51 PM - Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? ()
Message 1
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Subject: | Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? Do you find access
through D panel a real pain? What battery, what size wire did you run, was
starter performance acceptable?
Any pictures?
Any opinion if I should make choice to mount battery there now or wait
till build is complete?
I suspect my XS Monowheel will tend to be on the nose heavy side.
914
HD Starter
Intercooler
Oil Thermostat
Exhaust wrapped
CS Airmaster
Cooling air baffle
B+C ND Alternator
Full interior
Panel that is pretty full
Structural up stop, 3/4" marine ply and glassed to tunnel (both sides)
aluminium just forward of tyre
Probably inflight adjustable cowl flaps and landing light in cowl
First fly with short wings, then will build glider wings (more nose heavy)
Tail heavy stuff
Have extended range fuel tank that will be used intermittent
2 Andair 375 Gasculators aft of Baggage bay ribs in a box and cover/latch
Tank water drains just aft of box
Series pumps with bypass valves
Mod 70 which is heavier, also 2 turnbuckles, cables and butterfly
Rudder cable turnbuckles
Repaired stabilators (inner and outer bushings) stuck from bottom, (extra
glass and flox)
Stabilator drive bushing repair (redux/flox/washer)
T-Bar guide, balsa and 2 BID
Glassed foam support to maintain width dimension above mass balance arm
2nd antenna and wiring
ELT
Kunzleman strobe box and LED position/Strobe on wingtips
Roll servo and associated
TE Probe and associated on rudder
Message 2
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Subject: | Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk>
Mine is under the baggage bay so can't really comment on that.
What I can say is that wrapping the exhausts is a big no-no. It causes them
to crack. It was mentioned in a factory newsletter quite a while back.
Secondly, the purpose of the mass balance arm is to balance the Stab'. If
Mod 70 is heavier them surely it will be out of balance???
Simon
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
Sent: 21 September 2006 19:57
Subject: Europa-List: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead?
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? Do you find access
through D panel a real pain? What battery, what size wire did you run, was
starter performance acceptable?
Any pictures?
Any opinion if I should make choice to mount battery there now or wait
till build is complete?
I suspect my XS Monowheel will tend to be on the nose heavy side.
914
HD Starter
Intercooler
Oil Thermostat
Exhaust wrapped
CS Airmaster
Cooling air baffle
B+C ND Alternator
Full interior
Panel that is pretty full
Structural up stop, 3/4" marine ply and glassed to tunnel (both sides)
aluminium just forward of tyre
Probably inflight adjustable cowl flaps and landing light in cowl
First fly with short wings, then will build glider wings (more nose heavy)
Tail heavy stuff
Have extended range fuel tank that will be used intermittent
2 Andair 375 Gasculators aft of Baggage bay ribs in a box and cover/latch
Tank water drains just aft of box
Series pumps with bypass valves
Mod 70 which is heavier, also 2 turnbuckles, cables and butterfly
Rudder cable turnbuckles
Repaired stabilators (inner and outer bushings) stuck from bottom, (extra
glass and flox)
Stabilator drive bushing repair (redux/flox/washer)
T-Bar guide, balsa and 2 BID
Glassed foam support to maintain width dimension above mass balance arm
2nd antenna and wiring
ELT
Kunzleman strobe box and LED position/Strobe on wingtips
Roll servo and associated
TE Probe and associated on rudder
Message 3
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Subject: | Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" <kheindl@msn.com>
I did just that recently in order to shift the cg because of the new cs
prop, which is adding 4.2kg to the front end.
It is an Odyssey 680, with #6 gaugewiring, although #4 is recommended.
Starting is much better than before, and I don't even have the new starter
yet. It is a compact battery (see catalog), and weighs exactly 15 pounds
plus whatever tray you make up for it. The wire run is relatively short:
straight from the stbd firewall, under the door sill, and through the
bulkhead. I made a platform out of fiberglass and plywood, and a criss/cross
aluminum bracket to hold the battery in place. There is also a purpose
madebracket available from ACS. Sorry, no pictures. It is mounted (using
Redux) on the floor next to the rudder cable and is easy to reach.
Karl
>From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Europa-List: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead?
>Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:56:47 -0000
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
>Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? Do you find access
>through D panel a real pain? What battery, what size wire did you run, was
>starter performance acceptable?
>
>Any pictures?
>
>Any opinion if I should make choice to mount battery there now or wait
>till build is complete?
>
>I suspect my XS Monowheel will tend to be on the nose heavy side.
>
>914
>HD Starter
>Intercooler
>Oil Thermostat
>Exhaust wrapped
>CS Airmaster
>Cooling air baffle
>B+C ND Alternator
>Full interior
>Panel that is pretty full
>Structural up stop, 3/4" marine ply and glassed to tunnel (both sides)
>aluminium just forward of tyre
>Probably inflight adjustable cowl flaps and landing light in cowl
>
>First fly with short wings, then will build glider wings (more nose heavy)
>
>Tail heavy stuff
>Have extended range fuel tank that will be used intermittent
>2 Andair 375 Gasculators aft of Baggage bay ribs in a box and cover/latch
>Tank water drains just aft of box
>Series pumps with bypass valves
>Mod 70 which is heavier, also 2 turnbuckles, cables and butterfly
>Rudder cable turnbuckles
>Repaired stabilators (inner and outer bushings) stuck from bottom, (extra
>glass and flox)
>Stabilator drive bushing repair (redux/flox/washer)
>T-Bar guide, balsa and 2 BID
>Glassed foam support to maintain width dimension above mass balance arm
>2nd antenna and wiring
>ELT
>Kunzleman strobe box and LED position/Strobe on wingtips
>Roll servo and associated
>TE Probe and associated on rudder
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Trim Servo Ind. RF Cable Again... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "steve v." <s.vestuti@virgin.net>
Hi Guys,
I know this has been recently discussed, but, I'm just testing my panel
B4 fitting the upholstery and it appears I'm a victim of the TRIM SERVO IND. doing
a very good impression of CRISTMASTREE LIGHTS on Transmit!
I followed Europas direcions on routing the RF cable- i've run it on the
opposite side of the fuselage to the servo cable but, THEY MEET AT THE
TOP OF THE REAR BULKHEAD, so, what i need to know is, as i cannot
reroute the RF cable, has anyone had any success with additional shielding between
the two cables? or, any other suggestions ,
Steve Vestuti #573
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Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
Simon
the Stab MUST be balanced. Otherwise you risk short period oscillation.
After mod 70 is fitted you should check and adjust the balance. The new
mod 70 will have its own CG at less radius than the old one, so you need
more weight
Graham
Simon Smith wrote:
>Secondly, the purpose of the mass balance arm is to balance the Stab'. If
>Mod 70 is heavier them surely it will be out of balance???
>
>Simon
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com>
We mounted a 25 Amp hour battery under the starboard side baggage bay
access panel, and used 4 gauge wire up under the door sill and through
the firewall, using the Europa optional wiring kit. We have never had a
problem with starter performance with this location. We chose a larger
battery (25 Ahr) because we intend motor gliding some day, and expect to
power minimal electrics for hours with the engine off.
Regards,
Terry Seaver
A135/N135TD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:57 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay
bulkhead?
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? Do you find access
through D panel a real pain? What battery, what size wire did you run,
was starter performance acceptable?
Any pictures?
Any opinion if I should make choice to mount battery there now or wait
till build is complete?
I suspect my XS Monowheel will tend to be on the nose heavy side.
914
HD Starter
Intercooler
Oil Thermostat
Exhaust wrapped
CS Airmaster
Cooling air baffle
B+C ND Alternator
Full interior
Panel that is pretty full
Structural up stop, 3/4" marine ply and glassed to tunnel (both sides)
aluminium just forward of tyre Probably inflight adjustable cowl flaps
and landing light in cowl
First fly with short wings, then will build glider wings (more nose
heavy)
Tail heavy stuff
Have extended range fuel tank that will be used intermittent
2 Andair 375 Gasculators aft of Baggage bay ribs in a box and
cover/latch Tank water drains just aft of box Series pumps with bypass
valves Mod 70 which is heavier, also 2 turnbuckles, cables and butterfly
Rudder cable turnbuckles Repaired stabilators (inner and outer bushings)
stuck from bottom, (extra glass and flox) Stabilator drive bushing
repair (redux/flox/washer) T-Bar guide, balsa and 2 BID Glassed foam
support to maintain width dimension above mass balance arm 2nd antenna
and wiring ELT Kunzleman strobe box and LED position/Strobe on wingtips
Roll servo and associated TE Probe and associated on rudder
Message 7
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Subject: | mass balance [was: Anyone install battery aft of baggage |
bay bulkhead?]
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
At 2006-09-21 20:27 +0100 Simon Smith wrote:
>the purpose of the mass balance arm is to balance the Stab'. If
>Mod 70 is heavier them surely it will be out of balance
Simon - the overall weight of the mass balance arm is increased by
the mod, since stuff has been added to it. The whole assembly has to
be re-balanced, and if the weight is just moved fore & aft on the arm
to achieve this, the (new, higher) overall weight will not be
affected. It is left as an exercise for the student (as the old maths
books used to delight in saying) to prove that balancing by removing
material from the weights will also result in a higher mass than the
original. [clue - weight has been added to the arm, closer to the
torque tube than where the big weights are]
regards
Rowland
--
| Wilma & Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/
| <rowil@clara.net> ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
Message 8
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Subject: | Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hello Simon
Thx. for the reply.
"What I can say is that wrapping the exhausts is a big no-no. It causes
them to crack. It was mentioned in a factory newsletter quite a while
back."
The 914 exhaust is different from the 912 or 912S exhaust. Rotax provides
the exhaust. That said the 914 exhaust changed material it was made out of
a while back. I forget if it is now 309 or 308SS. Many certifier 914
installs, like the Xamango and Katana wrap their exhausts. The older ones
did have a tendency to crack. The newer ones are much more robust.
Lockwood recommends wrapping.
"Secondly, the purpose of the mass balance arm is to balance the Stab'. If
Mod 70 is heavier them surely it will be out of balance???"
The mass balance arm of Mod 70 is made out of a heavier wall tube with a
additional tube about half way, and the threaded lower fastener is heavier
than the original. The extra weight of all is not at the tip where the
weights are which has a large moment arm. My build is new so it does not
matter, I suspect a retrofit if needing to adjust weight amount at all
would be little. You could add all the weight you want to the center of
the stabilator TT without affecting balance, but an oz or 2 at the tip of
the mass balance arm will affect.
Do Not Archive
Ron Parigoris
Message 9
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Subject: | RE: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "danbish" <n914rb@earthlink.net>
Ron,
For what it's worth, here's a photo from Paul Boulet's plane, the battery was installed
by Phoenix Composites on the starboard side. Haven't gotten to this stage
yet.
Dan
----------------
This Email contains Photos or Attachments located at the following link:
http://www.europaowners.org/viewtopic.php?p=12727#12727
----------------
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Message 10
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Subject: | RE: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
Here's my aft battery and Kevlar battery holder. ( I order the wrong stuff by mistake
and was determined to use it someplace )
http://www.europaowners.org/modules/gallery/albums/album20/DSCN3928.sized.jpg
Steved
----------------
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Message 11
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Subject: | EuropaOwners is Moving |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
Jos has made available to us his shiny new server. As with all things new and shiny
it can run faster and jump higher. So, some time in the next day or so were
going to make the jump, all 3. something gig. If everything works right nobody
will even know. If you do notice some odd site behavior give it an hour or
so and try again, if it's still acting up, please email me directly or post a
note under General Discussion to help keep the traffic off the matronics list.
http://www.europaowners.org/viewforum.php?f=17
EuropaForum@comcast.net
Thanks, Chat Later
Steved
----------------
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Message 12
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Subject: | Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Ron,
I installed a 16AH Odyssey battery under the starboard side baggage bay. I
used #4 welding cable and it works fine. If you wanted to go further back
it wouldn't really be a problem.
About 22' of welding cable was required to put it under the baggage bay and
that stuff weights a lot. If I was to do it over again I would calculate
out what would happen if I put the battery on the fire wall and offset it
with lead in the tail. My hypothesis is that net weight gain would be less
because you would eliminate a long run of heavy cable.
Just my 2 cents worth
Paul
Message 13
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Subject: | Secure ring of Andair 375 gasculator |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
I have 2 Andair 375 gasculators in a box just aft of the baggage bay ribs
accessible from outside the plane.
Even though the cover has 2 rubber cones resting on the bottom of the
gasculator bowls that pseudo would secure the bowls in the event the rings
loosened I didn't like it very much.
I bent up 2 precision .025" Spring Stainless Steel wire that fits into two
of the holes drilled in the ring for safety wire.
Works great, have a loop that extends down bout 1/2" that I catch with a
spring to side of box.
In case anyone is in the same boat, send me a self addressed stamped
envelope and I will make one or 2 for you while it is still fresh in my
mind and give you the part number of the Stainless Steel Springs I am
using from McMaster Carr.
Just need to thread my part through 2 holes, bend over end and cut it.
Figuring the shape, what to make it out of was the secret.
Ron Parigoris
44 Carriage drive
Kings Park, New York 11754
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Thanks to all for your replies.
Paul
"My hypothesis is that net weight gain would be less because you would
eliminate a long run of heavy cable."
I did the math and moving the battery aft nets to a more aft CG if the
battery is under the baggage bay cover using a Odyssey 545. Any battery
heavier, or if you move it more aft works even better. I compared with
battery mounted on the starboard foot-well, and the extra weight of the
cables mounted on the sternpost.
In addition I am not using a electro/magnetic battery contactor, but a
Flaming River Combo Battery and Alternator Kill switch:
http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/Category_ID=133/home_id=76/mode=cat/cat133.htm
It is on the back of Starboard headrest easily accessible by pilot. Turn
knob 1/4 turn to turn on, hit in center pops it off. Nice piece of
hardware.
Ron Parigoris
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