Europa-List Digest Archive

Thu 09/21/06


Total Messages Posted: 14



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 11:58 AM - Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? ()
     2. 12:29 PM - Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? (Simon Smith)
     3. 12:41 PM - Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? (Karl Heindl)
     4. 12:44 PM - Trim Servo Ind. RF Cable Again... (steve v.)
     5. 01:57 PM - Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? (Graham Singleton)
     6. 02:19 PM - Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? (Terry Seaver (terrys))
     7. 02:31 PM - mass balance [was: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead?] (Rowland Carson)
     8. 02:42 PM - Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? ()
     9. 03:20 PM - Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? (danbish)
    10. 03:34 PM - Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? (SteveD)
    11. 04:02 PM - EuropaOwners is Moving (SteveD)
    12. 04:24 PM -  Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? (Paul McAllister)
    13. 08:37 PM - Secure ring of Andair 375 gasculator ()
    14. 08:51 PM - Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? ()
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 11:58:52 AM PST US
    Subject: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead?
    From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? Do you find access through D panel a real pain? What battery, what size wire did you run, was starter performance acceptable? Any pictures? Any opinion if I should make choice to mount battery there now or wait till build is complete? I suspect my XS Monowheel will tend to be on the nose heavy side. 914 HD Starter Intercooler Oil Thermostat Exhaust wrapped CS Airmaster Cooling air baffle B+C ND Alternator Full interior Panel that is pretty full Structural up stop, 3/4" marine ply and glassed to tunnel (both sides) aluminium just forward of tyre Probably inflight adjustable cowl flaps and landing light in cowl First fly with short wings, then will build glider wings (more nose heavy) Tail heavy stuff Have extended range fuel tank that will be used intermittent 2 Andair 375 Gasculators aft of Baggage bay ribs in a box and cover/latch Tank water drains just aft of box Series pumps with bypass valves Mod 70 which is heavier, also 2 turnbuckles, cables and butterfly Rudder cable turnbuckles Repaired stabilators (inner and outer bushings) stuck from bottom, (extra glass and flox) Stabilator drive bushing repair (redux/flox/washer) T-Bar guide, balsa and 2 BID Glassed foam support to maintain width dimension above mass balance arm 2nd antenna and wiring ELT Kunzleman strobe box and LED position/Strobe on wingtips Roll servo and associated TE Probe and associated on rudder


    Message 2


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    Time: 12:29:25 PM PST US
    From: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk>
    Subject: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead?
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk> Mine is under the baggage bay so can't really comment on that. What I can say is that wrapping the exhausts is a big no-no. It causes them to crack. It was mentioned in a factory newsletter quite a while back. Secondly, the purpose of the mass balance arm is to balance the Stab'. If Mod 70 is heavier them surely it will be out of balance??? Simon -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sent: 21 September 2006 19:57 Subject: Europa-List: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? --> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? Do you find access through D panel a real pain? What battery, what size wire did you run, was starter performance acceptable? Any pictures? Any opinion if I should make choice to mount battery there now or wait till build is complete? I suspect my XS Monowheel will tend to be on the nose heavy side. 914 HD Starter Intercooler Oil Thermostat Exhaust wrapped CS Airmaster Cooling air baffle B+C ND Alternator Full interior Panel that is pretty full Structural up stop, 3/4" marine ply and glassed to tunnel (both sides) aluminium just forward of tyre Probably inflight adjustable cowl flaps and landing light in cowl First fly with short wings, then will build glider wings (more nose heavy) Tail heavy stuff Have extended range fuel tank that will be used intermittent 2 Andair 375 Gasculators aft of Baggage bay ribs in a box and cover/latch Tank water drains just aft of box Series pumps with bypass valves Mod 70 which is heavier, also 2 turnbuckles, cables and butterfly Rudder cable turnbuckles Repaired stabilators (inner and outer bushings) stuck from bottom, (extra glass and flox) Stabilator drive bushing repair (redux/flox/washer) T-Bar guide, balsa and 2 BID Glassed foam support to maintain width dimension above mass balance arm 2nd antenna and wiring ELT Kunzleman strobe box and LED position/Strobe on wingtips Roll servo and associated TE Probe and associated on rudder


    Message 3


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    Time: 12:41:28 PM PST US
    From: "Karl Heindl" <kheindl@msn.com>
    Subject: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead?
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" <kheindl@msn.com> I did just that recently in order to shift the cg because of the new cs prop, which is adding 4.2kg to the front end. It is an Odyssey 680, with #6 gaugewiring, although #4 is recommended. Starting is much better than before, and I don't even have the new starter yet. It is a compact battery (see catalog), and weighs exactly 15 pounds plus whatever tray you make up for it. The wire run is relatively short: straight from the stbd firewall, under the door sill, and through the bulkhead. I made a platform out of fiberglass and plywood, and a criss/cross aluminum bracket to hold the battery in place. There is also a purpose madebracket available from ACS. Sorry, no pictures. It is mounted (using Redux) on the floor next to the rudder cable and is easy to reach. Karl >From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> >To: <europa-list@matronics.com> >Subject: Europa-List: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:56:47 -0000 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> > >Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? Do you find access >through D panel a real pain? What battery, what size wire did you run, was >starter performance acceptable? > >Any pictures? > >Any opinion if I should make choice to mount battery there now or wait >till build is complete? > >I suspect my XS Monowheel will tend to be on the nose heavy side. > >914 >HD Starter >Intercooler >Oil Thermostat >Exhaust wrapped >CS Airmaster >Cooling air baffle >B+C ND Alternator >Full interior >Panel that is pretty full >Structural up stop, 3/4" marine ply and glassed to tunnel (both sides) >aluminium just forward of tyre >Probably inflight adjustable cowl flaps and landing light in cowl > >First fly with short wings, then will build glider wings (more nose heavy) > >Tail heavy stuff >Have extended range fuel tank that will be used intermittent >2 Andair 375 Gasculators aft of Baggage bay ribs in a box and cover/latch >Tank water drains just aft of box >Series pumps with bypass valves >Mod 70 which is heavier, also 2 turnbuckles, cables and butterfly >Rudder cable turnbuckles >Repaired stabilators (inner and outer bushings) stuck from bottom, (extra >glass and flox) >Stabilator drive bushing repair (redux/flox/washer) >T-Bar guide, balsa and 2 BID >Glassed foam support to maintain width dimension above mass balance arm >2nd antenna and wiring >ELT >Kunzleman strobe box and LED position/Strobe on wingtips >Roll servo and associated >TE Probe and associated on rudder > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 12:44:07 PM PST US
    Subject: Trim Servo Ind. RF Cable Again...
    From: "steve v." <s.vestuti@virgin.net>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "steve v." <s.vestuti@virgin.net> Hi Guys, I know this has been recently discussed, but, I'm just testing my panel B4 fitting the upholstery and it appears I'm a victim of the TRIM SERVO IND. doing a very good impression of CRISTMASTREE LIGHTS on Transmit! I followed Europas direcions on routing the RF cable- i've run it on the opposite side of the fuselage to the servo cable but, THEY MEET AT THE TOP OF THE REAR BULKHEAD, so, what i need to know is, as i cannot reroute the RF cable, has anyone had any success with additional shielding between the two cables? or, any other suggestions , Steve Vestuti #573 ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/


    Message 5


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    Time: 01:57:19 PM PST US
    From: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead?
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> Simon the Stab MUST be balanced. Otherwise you risk short period oscillation. After mod 70 is fitted you should check and adjust the balance. The new mod 70 will have its own CG at less radius than the old one, so you need more weight Graham Simon Smith wrote: >Secondly, the purpose of the mass balance arm is to balance the Stab'. If >Mod 70 is heavier them surely it will be out of balance??? > >Simon >


    Message 6


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    Time: 02:19:44 PM PST US
    Subject: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead?
    From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com> We mounted a 25 Amp hour battery under the starboard side baggage bay access panel, and used 4 gauge wire up under the door sill and through the firewall, using the Europa optional wiring kit. We have never had a problem with starter performance with this location. We chose a larger battery (25 Ahr) because we intend motor gliding some day, and expect to power minimal electrics for hours with the engine off. Regards, Terry Seaver A135/N135TD -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:57 AM Subject: Europa-List: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? --> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? Do you find access through D panel a real pain? What battery, what size wire did you run, was starter performance acceptable? Any pictures? Any opinion if I should make choice to mount battery there now or wait till build is complete? I suspect my XS Monowheel will tend to be on the nose heavy side. 914 HD Starter Intercooler Oil Thermostat Exhaust wrapped CS Airmaster Cooling air baffle B+C ND Alternator Full interior Panel that is pretty full Structural up stop, 3/4" marine ply and glassed to tunnel (both sides) aluminium just forward of tyre Probably inflight adjustable cowl flaps and landing light in cowl First fly with short wings, then will build glider wings (more nose heavy) Tail heavy stuff Have extended range fuel tank that will be used intermittent 2 Andair 375 Gasculators aft of Baggage bay ribs in a box and cover/latch Tank water drains just aft of box Series pumps with bypass valves Mod 70 which is heavier, also 2 turnbuckles, cables and butterfly Rudder cable turnbuckles Repaired stabilators (inner and outer bushings) stuck from bottom, (extra glass and flox) Stabilator drive bushing repair (redux/flox/washer) T-Bar guide, balsa and 2 BID Glassed foam support to maintain width dimension above mass balance arm 2nd antenna and wiring ELT Kunzleman strobe box and LED position/Strobe on wingtips Roll servo and associated TE Probe and associated on rudder


    Message 7


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    Time: 02:31:55 PM PST US
    From: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
    Subject: mass balance [was: Anyone install battery aft of baggage
    bay bulkhead?] --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net> At 2006-09-21 20:27 +0100 Simon Smith wrote: >the purpose of the mass balance arm is to balance the Stab'. If >Mod 70 is heavier them surely it will be out of balance Simon - the overall weight of the mass balance arm is increased by the mod, since stuff has been added to it. The whole assembly has to be re-balanced, and if the weight is just moved fore & aft on the arm to achieve this, the (new, higher) overall weight will not be affected. It is left as an exercise for the student (as the old maths books used to delight in saying) to prove that balancing by removing material from the weights will also result in a higher mass than the original. [clue - weight has been added to the arm, closer to the torque tube than where the big weights are] regards Rowland -- | Wilma & Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/ | <rowil@clara.net> ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...


    Message 8


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    Time: 02:42:15 PM PST US
    Subject: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead?
    From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> Hello Simon Thx. for the reply. "What I can say is that wrapping the exhausts is a big no-no. It causes them to crack. It was mentioned in a factory newsletter quite a while back." The 914 exhaust is different from the 912 or 912S exhaust. Rotax provides the exhaust. That said the 914 exhaust changed material it was made out of a while back. I forget if it is now 309 or 308SS. Many certifier 914 installs, like the Xamango and Katana wrap their exhausts. The older ones did have a tendency to crack. The newer ones are much more robust. Lockwood recommends wrapping. "Secondly, the purpose of the mass balance arm is to balance the Stab'. If Mod 70 is heavier them surely it will be out of balance???" The mass balance arm of Mod 70 is made out of a heavier wall tube with a additional tube about half way, and the threaded lower fastener is heavier than the original. The extra weight of all is not at the tip where the weights are which has a large moment arm. My build is new so it does not matter, I suspect a retrofit if needing to adjust weight amount at all would be little. You could add all the weight you want to the center of the stabilator TT without affecting balance, but an oz or 2 at the tip of the mass balance arm will affect. Do Not Archive Ron Parigoris


    Message 9


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    Time: 03:20:49 PM PST US
    Subject: RE: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead?
    From: "danbish" <n914rb@earthlink.net>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "danbish" <n914rb@earthlink.net> Ron, For what it's worth, here's a photo from Paul Boulet's plane, the battery was installed by Phoenix Composites on the starboard side. Haven't gotten to this stage yet. Dan ---------------- This Email contains Photos or Attachments located at the following link: http://www.europaowners.org/viewtopic.php?p=12727#12727 ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/


    Message 10


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    Time: 03:34:23 PM PST US
    Subject: RE: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead?
    From: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net> Here's my aft battery and Kevlar battery holder. ( I order the wrong stuff by mistake and was determined to use it someplace ) http://www.europaowners.org/modules/gallery/albums/album20/DSCN3928.sized.jpg Steved ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/


    Message 11


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    Time: 04:02:26 PM PST US
    Subject: EuropaOwners is Moving
    From: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net> Jos has made available to us his shiny new server. As with all things new and shiny it can run faster and jump higher. So, some time in the next day or so were going to make the jump, all 3. something gig. If everything works right nobody will even know. If you do notice some odd site behavior give it an hour or so and try again, if it's still acting up, please email me directly or post a note under General Discussion to help keep the traffic off the matronics list. http://www.europaowners.org/viewforum.php?f=17 EuropaForum@comcast.net Thanks, Chat Later Steved ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/


    Message 12


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    Time: 04:24:04 PM PST US
    From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
    Subject: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead?
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net> Ron, I installed a 16AH Odyssey battery under the starboard side baggage bay. I used #4 welding cable and it works fine. If you wanted to go further back it wouldn't really be a problem. About 22' of welding cable was required to put it under the baggage bay and that stuff weights a lot. If I was to do it over again I would calculate out what would happen if I put the battery on the fire wall and offset it with lead in the tail. My hypothesis is that net weight gain would be less because you would eliminate a long run of heavy cable. Just my 2 cents worth Paul


    Message 13


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    Time: 08:37:19 PM PST US
    From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
    Subject: Secure ring of Andair 375 gasculator
    --> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> I have 2 Andair 375 gasculators in a box just aft of the baggage bay ribs accessible from outside the plane. Even though the cover has 2 rubber cones resting on the bottom of the gasculator bowls that pseudo would secure the bowls in the event the rings loosened I didn't like it very much. I bent up 2 precision .025" Spring Stainless Steel wire that fits into two of the holes drilled in the ring for safety wire. Works great, have a loop that extends down bout 1/2" that I catch with a spring to side of box. In case anyone is in the same boat, send me a self addressed stamped envelope and I will make one or 2 for you while it is still fresh in my mind and give you the part number of the Stainless Steel Springs I am using from McMaster Carr. Just need to thread my part through 2 holes, bend over end and cut it. Figuring the shape, what to make it out of was the secret. Ron Parigoris 44 Carriage drive Kings Park, New York 11754


    Message 14


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    Time: 08:51:07 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead?
    From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> Thanks to all for your replies. Paul "My hypothesis is that net weight gain would be less because you would eliminate a long run of heavy cable." I did the math and moving the battery aft nets to a more aft CG if the battery is under the baggage bay cover using a Odyssey 545. Any battery heavier, or if you move it more aft works even better. I compared with battery mounted on the starboard foot-well, and the extra weight of the cables mounted on the sternpost. In addition I am not using a electro/magnetic battery contactor, but a Flaming River Combo Battery and Alternator Kill switch: http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/Category_ID=133/home_id=76/mode=cat/cat133.htm It is on the back of Starboard headrest easily accessible by pilot. Turn knob 1/4 turn to turn on, hit in center pops it off. Nice piece of hardware. Ron Parigoris




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