Europa-List Digest Archive

Mon 09/25/06


Total Messages Posted: 4



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:46 AM - Starter engagement (Fergus Kyle)
     2. 08:20 AM - Re: Starter engagement (William Daniell)
     3. 07:04 PM - Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? (gdh)
     4. 09:38 PM - FW: Flying is good! (Steve Hagar)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:46:55 AM PST US
    From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
    Subject: Starter engagement
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca> Will: "From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Anyone install battery aft of Baggage bay bulkhead Err another question "maximum time of starter engagement" Whats this? Will" Sorry, I may have created more discussion than planned..... I meant that every aircraft I have ever started made it plain there was a limiy to the number of electrons which occasionally leapt from battery to starter. The argument seemed to imply that although both the wire and the starter motor were capable of carrying the starter current, they wouldn't happily do it for an eon. At a certain point, one of them would get warmer than planned, and failure would ensue. In the case of a small personal homebuilt, the risk is only when the #$%^ engine fails to start - the pilot remembers he has left the tub running - and departure delay is threatened. In that scenario, the first need is to remember the starter time restrictions - unobtrusive in smaller machines and vital when the engine in question is 106 feet from the starter button. That may be why I mentioned the limits to starter engagement .......because I have changed the wiring, I should consider the new risks. Ferg Kyle Europa A064 914 Classic PS: As a corollary, my thanks to Ron Parigoris for properly displaying the technical details of my rambling remark. ...makes it more useable. Because I put the Ground Power receptacle portside for security, the heavy electrics require little more than half the length of his choosing but the principle remains the same.


    Message 2


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    Time: 08:20:19 AM PST US
    From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
    Subject: Starter engagement
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co> Ah - now I think I understand Thanks Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle Sent: 25 September, 2006 08:45 Subject: Europa-List: Starter engagement --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca> Will: "From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Anyone install battery aft of Baggage bay bulkhead Err another question "maximum time of starter engagement" Whats this? Will" Sorry, I may have created more discussion than planned..... I meant that every aircraft I have ever started made it plain there was a limiy to the number of electrons which occasionally leapt from battery to starter. The argument seemed to imply that although both the wire and the starter motor were capable of carrying the starter current, they wouldn't happily do it for an eon. At a certain point, one of them would get warmer than planned, and failure would ensue. In the case of a small personal homebuilt, the risk is only when the #$%^ engine fails to start - the pilot remembers he has left the tub running - and departure delay is threatened. In that scenario, the first need is to remember the starter time restrictions - unobtrusive in smaller machines and vital when the engine in question is 106 feet from the starter button. That may be why I mentioned the limits to starter engagement .......because I have changed the wiring, I should consider the new risks. Ferg Kyle Europa A064 914 Classic PS: As a corollary, my thanks to Ron Parigoris for properly displaying the technical details of my rambling remark. ...makes it more useable. Because I put the Ground Power receptacle portside for security, the heavy electrics require little more than half the length of his choosing but the principle remains the same.


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:04:06 PM PST US
    From: "gdh" <gdh@isp.com>
    Subject: Re: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead?
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "gdh" <gdh@isp.com> Nigel, Good info! Thanks, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: "nigel charles" <nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk> Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:37 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay bulkhead? > --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk> > > It is too easy to get carried away adding weight to the aircraft. This > was especially a problem when the MTOW was only 1300lb. Just how > important it is depends a lot on pilot and passenger weights. If you can > carry at least 50lb baggage and full fuel with 2 people on board and > stay within MTOW the use of the Europa as a cruising has not been > compromised. > > When it comes to allowing for weight of fuel be aware that many of the > fuel tanks expand with age. My tank started off with a 69 litre > capacity. It now holds 76 litres. This is good for range (about another > 25 minutes flying) but it does add about another 5lb to the fuel weight. > > Regards > > Nigel Charles > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul > McAllister > Sent: 23 September 2006 13:49 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Anyone install battery aft of baggage bay > bulkhead? > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > <paul.mcallister@qia.net> > > Nigel, > > I used #4 welding cable which was nice and flexible and not very > expensive, > but I remember when I was bringing the 25' roll home thinking "darn this > stuff weighs a lot" > > I suspect that the thick flame proof rubber insulation added a weight > penalty over the cable you used. I really wished I weighed it at the > time..... maybe I'll buy a short section and do a rough calculation. > > I tried to pay attention to weight in my aircraft, it came out at 860lb, > about average for a 914 mono, but I often think until you have built an > aircraft you really don't have a great appreciation of its importance. > Some > people have built 914 monowheels that have come in at 790 lbs..... I > sure > wish mine weighed that. > > I look forward to seeing your calculations of the "battery in the back" > weight trade off. > > Regards, Paul > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk> > >>No for the following reasons: > >>1. I already had some a/c quality #4 cable, as used with C130 a/c >>generators. >>2. The oval plastic ducting available for domestic house electrics in >>the UK provides a perfect fit to enable end feeding the cable from the >>battery to the engine bay. >>3. As the total weight penalty was about 1.5lb then the difference >>between types of cable wasn't going to be significant. > >>Thanks for the info. I will bear it in mind for any future projects. > >>Nigel > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:38:25 PM PST US
    From: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
    Subject: FW: Flying is good!
    Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Hagar Sent: 9/26/2006 5:14:19 PM Subject: Flying is good! I put almost 3 hours on N40SH yesterday. It was a fairly cool morning, at least for Arizona. I actually had to leave the choke on for about a minute to warm it up. Up to now choke for start then push it right in. The 914 has started first time and every time so far. Take offs do not seem to pose any problem just require more concentration than a nose dragger. The high powersetting and slipstream give good rudder authority and you lift off before getting in any real trouble. I have yet to take off under full boost, just no need to even with a good load. Landings however would be hair raising if I had any hair. I have not come close to ground looping but there is a lot of squawling tire and rubber smell with left and right action. You have to read the situation good and I have has some windy ones. Though it is entirely learnable. It took me 11 hours of straight touch and goes when I had my initial tailwheel training. About at that time the eyes, ass, and feet figured out how to handle the situations. It just possibly will take the same in the Monowheel. I have been spending time up to now checking stability, stall characteristics and working out bugs after each flight. Several touch and goes get thrown in at the end of each flight. Next flights will involve intense T & G's at different fields in my flying areas. The biggest being 150 ft wide and the smallest being 50 ft wide. The plane motored effortlessly up to 12,500ft without overtemping. The air is cool (50F) and smooth up there even over the desert. 125 to 130 kt cruises at lower altitudes were accomplished at 31" of MP though I wasn't trying for any speed runs. Did not stay long at high alt, just wanted to check it out, I need an O2 bottle for that to verify 17,500 ft cruising characteristics. Pulled into the gas station on the way home and bought 11 gallons of high test of $2.45/ gal for 2.8 hours of flying. Now if I only had a hangar so I wouldn't have to drag this thing around. Steve Hagar A143 N40SH Flying off the hours. Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net




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