Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:36 AM - Engine Assistance Please (Alan Burrows)
2. 03:56 AM - Re: Engine Assistance Please (BEBERRY@aol.com)
3. 06:54 AM - Re: Engine Assistance Please (ivor.phillips)
4. 07:00 AM - Re: Engine Assistance Please (AlStills)
5. 09:33 AM - batteries (Paul Stewart)
6. 09:53 AM - Re: batteries (Gilles Thesee)
7. 09:53 AM - Re: batteries (Graham Singleton)
8. 10:02 AM - Re: batteries (Gilles Thesee)
9. 10:30 AM - Trailering (Jerry Rehn)
10. 10:42 AM - Re: batteries (Peter Rees)
11. 11:27 AM - Re: batteries (Paul Stewart)
12. 11:30 AM - Re: batteries (R.C.Harrison)
13. 11:32 AM - Re: Engine Assistance Please (Fred Klein)
14. 11:37 AM - Re: batteries (Raimo Toivio)
15. 11:56 AM - Re: batteries (Pete Lawless)
16. 12:01 PM - Rotax oil pressure sender (=?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Guerner?=)
17. 01:12 PM - Re: Fuel cap / Cobra reinforcement (Garry)
18. 02:26 PM - Re: Trailering (Tom Friedland)
19. 03:35 PM - Re: Trailering (Jerry Rehn)
20. 04:50 PM - Re: batteries (Kingsley Hurst)
21. 05:42 PM - Re: batteries (SPurpura@aol.com)
22. 05:43 PM - Re: Fuel cap / Cobra reinforcement ()
23. 06:02 PM - Re: Trailering (Craig Ellison)
24. 11:54 PM - Re: Trailering (Steven Pitt)
Message 1
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Subject: | Engine Assistance Please |
I have a friend who is looking to buy an XS Trigear fitted with a Jabaru
engine, does anyone have any advise on the installation or hints on what to
watch out for. Is it a good option or shall I "pursuade" him to stay with
the more traditional Rotax. I dont want to start a debate on the merits or
drawbacks of the various options, just help a friend with little or no
Europa experience buy the right aircraft.
Thanks Guys
Alan
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Engine Assistance Please |
I have no experience of the Jabiru but try Pete Jeffers who knows quite a
bit.
Patrick
Message 3
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Subject: | Engine Assistance Please |
Alan
The obvious man to ask is Bob Harrison as he was the first to use the Jabiru
in the UK, In a Europa Tri- Gear
regards
Ivor
I have a friend who is looking to buy an XS Trigear fitted with a Jabaru
engine, does anyone have any advise on the installation or hints on what to
watch out for
Do not archive
Message 4
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Subject: | Engine Assistance Please |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "AlStills" <astills@cox.net>
Alan,
I'm currently running taxi test's on my trigear with the Jabiur 3300 engine
and would be more than happy to share what I know. Contact me off line at
astills@cox.net
Al Stills
N625AZ
Message 5
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
Can anyone give me some help with batteries? I've just priced up a
17AH 'Red Top' at 121 GBP. I can get hold of YUASA 17AH leads acid
gel batteries for 37GBP. THe only obvious difference to me is that
the Red Top product claims 625A cranking power at 20 degC and the
YUASA 450A. Would this lower power be enough for cranking the 914 or
am I missing another reason for spending an extra 100 quid?
Regards
Paul
G-GIDY
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Paul Stewart a crit :
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
>
> Can anyone give me some help with batteries? I've just priced up a
> 17AH 'Red Top' at 121 GBP. I can get hold of YUASA 17AH leads acid
> gel batteries for 37GBP. THe only obvious difference to me is that
> the Red Top product claims 625A cranking power at 20 degC and the
> YUASA 450A. Would this lower power be enough for cranking the 914 or
> am I missing another reason for spending an extra 100 quid?
Paul,
A small four years old Hawker 7 Ah SBS-8 has ample power to lawlessly
crank our Rotax 914. I tested it from -14C to +37C.
The advertised cranking power is circa 300-400 A. The Rotax starter
doesn't exceed one hundred peak amps.
So I believe there is no need to worry.
If it were my airplane, I would go for a smaller and lighter battery.
I believe that the Yuasa battery is rather of the Absorbed Glass Mat, or
Recombinant Gas type, and not of the gel model. Gel batteries are best
suited for traction (wheel chairs, fork lifts, etc...)
If you're not afraid of reading French, you'll find some info on AGM
batteries at
http://contrails.free.fr/elec_bat_rg.php
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
Paul
imho the Yuasa should be adequate, if you want the best it probably has
to be an Oddysey
Graham
Paul Stewart wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
>
> Can anyone give me some help with batteries? I've just priced up a
> 17AH 'Red Top' at 121 GBP. I can get hold of YUASA 17AH leads acid
> gel batteries for 37GBP. THe only obvious difference to me is that
> the Red Top product claims 625A cranking power at 20 degC and the
> YUASA 450A. Would this lower power be enough for cranking the 914 or
> am I missing another reason for spending an extra 100 quid?
>
> Regards
>
> Paul
>
> G-GIDY
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>
> A small four years old Hawker 7 Ah SBS-8 has ample power to lawlessly
> crank our Rotax 914.
Should read "flawlessly"...
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com>
For over 5 years I have been hangering and seldom using trailer. I may have
used it 3 times in 6 years. Each time it is a real chore getting everything
lined up and pins in etc. I am very close to airport and am considering
trailering more often . I know there are those of you that have got it
figured out. I need your help. I still have the brochures that show the
Europa on the trailer (pg7) behind the Land Rover gasing up- what a concept!
I could be that person! Except for the Rover! Thanks for help.
Jerry
914 Mono
w/trailer
Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" <peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi Paul
We fitted an Odyssey PC680 which I got from
http://www.tayna.co.uk/catalog/295/0/Enersys-ODYSSEY-Batteries-Enersys-ODYSSEY-Batteries-page1.html
which was the cheapest outlet at the time at 80 - Seems to work a treat
(and about 6lbs lighter than the battery we took out.
Regards
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Stewart" <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 5:34 PM
Subject: Europa-List: batteries
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
>
> Can anyone give me some help with batteries? I've just priced up a 17AH
> 'Red Top' at 121 GBP. I can get hold of YUASA 17AH leads acid gel
> batteries for 37GBP. THe only obvious difference to me is that the Red
> Top product claims 625A cranking power at 20 degC and the YUASA 450A.
> Would this lower power be enough for cranking the 914 or am I missing
> another reason for spending an extra 100 quid?
>
> Regards
>
> Paul
>
> G-GIDY
>
>
>
Message 11
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
Thanks to all re batteries
Paul
Message 12
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Paul , I can't help you with technical comparisons but having the
Jabiru 3300 (it has six cylinders so two are coming on compression
together) and with two 13 AH red tops in parallel they have worked
flawlessly for in excess of six years and even with very negative temps
gave an immediate "light up" every time.
I always had to fly for up to an hour to be fully charged though and
after 3 starts within one hour it could need a second attempt.
All this was after it was necessary to perform jump starts from a plant
battery during the test flying. After which I moved the battery location
from the back to the P1 Foot well with welding wire leads.
Red Tops profess to be "starter" batteries so they give a remarkably
instantaneous discharge as is required for the starter.
Robt.C.Harrison G-PTAG in conversion to Rotax 914 !
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Stewart
Sent: 13 October 2006 17:35
Subject: Europa-List: batteries
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart
<europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
Can anyone give me some help with batteries? I've just priced up a
17AH 'Red Top' at 121 GBP. I can get hold of YUASA 17AH leads acid
gel batteries for 37GBP. THe only obvious difference to me is that
the Red Top product claims 625A cranking power at 20 degC and the
YUASA 450A. Would this lower power be enough for cranking the 914 or
am I missing another reason for spending an extra 100 quid?
Regards
Paul
G-GIDY
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Engine Assistance Please |
John Lawton at "TELEDYNMCS@aol.com" would be an excellent resource.
On Friday, October 13, 2006, at 03:34 AM, Alan Burrows wrote:
> I have a friend who is looking to buy an XS Trigear fitted with a
> Jabaru engine, does anyone have any advise on the installation or
> hints on what to watch out for. Is it a good option or shall I
> =93pursuade=94 him to stay with the more traditional Rotax. I dont
want to
> start a debate on the merits or drawbacks of the various options, just
> help a friend with little or no Europa experience buy the right
> aircraft.
>
> Thanks Guys
>
> -
>
> Alan
>
>
Message 14
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
I highly agree. I am very happy with my Odyssey.
It is over one year old and only once charged.
I have played almost every night with my panel...
The voltage over pins stays always 12,68V
(just like advertised). Notice never cranked /flied so far.
Raimo
oh-xrt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Singleton" <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: batteries
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>
> Paul
> imho the Yuasa should be adequate, if you want the best it probably has
> to be an Oddysey
> Graham
>
> Paul Stewart wrote:
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
> >
> > Can anyone give me some help with batteries? I've just priced up a
> > 17AH 'Red Top' at 121 GBP. I can get hold of YUASA 17AH leads acid
> > gel batteries for 37GBP. THe only obvious difference to me is that
> > the Red Top product claims 625A cranking power at 20 degC and the
> > YUASA 450A. Would this lower power be enough for cranking the 914 or
> > am I missing another reason for spending an extra 100 quid?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > G-GIDY
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" <pete@lawless.info>
Good I have never been known for cranking 914s!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles Thesee
Sent: 13 October 2006 18:02
Subject: Re: Europa-List: batteries
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>
> A small four years old Hawker 7 Ah SBS-8 has ample power to lawlessly
> crank our Rotax 914.
Should read "flawlessly"...
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 16
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Subject: | Rotax oil pressure sender |
I replaced the VDO oil pressure sender last week after 430 engine hours. The indicated
pressure on the Flydat with the old unit was gradually going down from
4 bars to 2.8 bars and was still indicating 2.8 bars after the engine was shut
down, even after a few days or weeks. The old unit had the brass ring, the new
one does not. I purchased the new one from the French Rotax dealer for 63
Euros. With the new sender, the oil pressure now oscillates from 3.3 to 3.6
bars, probably due to vibration. This is not satisfactory. Although I am reluctant
to add another hose to the two dozens already under the cowling, I am planning
to move the sender to the firewall using flexible hose, as on every Lycoming
installation. This should greatly reduce the risk of failure.
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 434 hours
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Fuel cap / Cobra reinforcement |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" <garrys@tampabay.rr.com>
Sorry, but what's a "Cobra"?
Garry Stout
----- Original Message -----
From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> Just finished up my fuel cap / Cobra reinforcement tonight.
Message 18
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Hi Jerry
Tom Friedland with XS Mono/Jabiru/Airmaster now in Ellensburg. (Was in BLI)
There is a guy in Canada that makes a one man wing dolly on wheels that you
can wheel the wing from the trailer to the aircraft and pivot the wing to a
horizontal position. And of course the other way around. I have the web
site somewhere if you are interested. I think that they were around $750.
Is there any chance of flying with you sometime? I flew in a mono once in
1998 and mine is almost ready to go so I would like to see what it is like.
Tom
On 10/13/06, Jerry Rehn <rehn@rockisland.com> wrote:
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com>
>
> For over 5 years I have been hangering and seldom using trailer. I may
> have
> used it 3 times in 6 years. Each time it is a real chore getting
> everything
> lined up and pins in etc. I am very close to airport and am considering
> trailering more often . I know there are those of you that have got it
> figured out. I need your help. I still have the brochures that show the
> Europa on the trailer (pg7) behind the Land Rover gasing up- what a
> concept!
> I could be that person! Except for the Rover! Thanks for help.
>
> Jerry
> 914 Mono
> w/trailer
>
>
Message 19
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Hi Tom
I'm looking for the methods and things folks have done to make the wings
easier to re-rig. It is always a hit and miss to line up pins spars and
all. I find two of us taking quite some time and much frustration.
Perhaps it will get better as I do it more but I recall others resorting
to other techniques and mods to make it much easier.
Glad to see your close by. We'll try arrange a flight one day
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Friedland
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trailering
Hi Jerry
Tom Friedland with XS Mono/Jabiru/Airmaster now in Ellensburg. (Was
in BLI)
There is a guy in Canada that makes a one man wing dolly on wheels
that you can wheel the wing from the trailer to the
Message 20
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
> Jabiru 3300 (it has six cylinders so two are coming on compression
> together)
??? Respectfully Bob, I don't think that statement is correct.
Six cylinder engines have a compression event every 120 degrees of rotation
of the crankshaft whereas a four cylinder has one every 180 degrees.
IOW, your Jab 6 cyl has 3 compressions per revolution and the Rotax has 2.
I assume the pistons in the 6 cyl Jab are larger in diameter than the Rotax
engines.(hence larger top surface area) If this is so, this could also
contribute to the 6 cyl Jab being harder to turn over than the Rotax subject
to the their relative compression ratios of course.
Cheers
Kingsley
do not archive (in case I'm wrong !)
Message 21
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|
I agree with Graham,get an Oddysey,they are much lighter and hold a charge
longer.
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Fuel cap / Cobra reinforcement |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hello Garry
"Sorry, but what's a "Cobra"?"
The "Cobra" is the roto molded piece of white plastic that goes between
the filler cap and the fuel tank rubber elbow, it looks like the snake.
Ron Parigoris
Message 23
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Hi Tom,
I'm down in Silverton, OR just a bit south of Portland. Would love to
hook up with a fellow builder and future pacific NW Europa flyer
sometime I currently have 59hr on my XSmono/Rotax914/Airmaster Europa
and loving every min of it. Give me a call and we'll go flying when the
weather permits.
craig ellison
A205
N205CN
503-508-5198
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Friedland
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trailering
Hi Jerry
Tom Friedland with XS Mono/Jabiru/Airmaster now in Ellensburg. (Was
in BLI)
There is a guy in Canada that makes a one man wing dolly on wheels
that you can wheel the wing from the trailer to the aircraft and pivot
the wing to a horizontal position. And of course the other way around.
I have the web site somewhere if you are interested. I think that they
were around $750.
Is there any chance of flying with you sometime? I flew in a mono
once in 1998 and mine is almost ready to go so I would like to see what
it is like.
Tom
On 10/13/06, Jerry Rehn <rehn@rockisland.com> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com
>
For over 5 years I have been hangering and seldom using trailer. I
may have
used it 3 times in 6 years. Each time it is a real chore getting
everything
lined up and pins in etc. I am very close to airport and am
considering
trailering more often . I know there are those of you that have got
it
figured out. I need your help. I still have the brochures that show
the
Europa on the trailer (pg7) behind the Land Rover gasing up- what a
concept!
Message 24
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|
Jerry
I have only just completed my aircraft and newly flown it so I can only
report on the short experience I have of trailering and putting
together. I have a closed trailer for my XS Trigear.
Firstly, two is better than one IMHO - it is more fun but you need to be
relaxed about getting the aircraft in and out of the trailer. Never rush
as that is when you make mistakes and create the hanger rash that you
don't want.
Putting the aircraft together does get easier and I now find my wings
slot in and the pins engage with a little bit of jiggling. Certainly it
can be done within about 15 minutes without breaking out into too much
sweat.
For wing rigging I made a 3 wheeled dolly, which does work, just in case
I get stuck without the second pair of hands. It is not as big and
elegant as some I have seen but I have tested it on rough ground and
with a wind blowing and it was stable enough to cope. Trestles were used
for turning and positioning. The flap engagement was the worst bit as I
have not yet fitted self aligning funnels to make the job easier.
Taking the aircraft apart should definitely not be done in a rush but
savoured after a good days flying. You are probably tired and thoughful
of what has gone before so take your time. This stage takes me 1/2 hour
plus if I am truthful.
I must admit there have been times when I have cursed the design which
allows it to be trailered but then I think of the costs and the ability
to work at home. With a winch fitted I can now get the fuselage out on
my own and back and work when the weather and time suits.
I appreciate this is very general and I will photograph the dolly
eventually. If you want any more info contact me off list.
Regards
Steve Pitt G-SMDH
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