Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:25 AM - Re: coolant issues? (Gilles Thesee)
2. 03:36 AM - Re: coolant issues? (Gilles Thesee)
3. 05:48 AM - First Flight N108EA (sldpileit@aol.com)
4. 06:10 AM - Re: First Flight N108EA (Dean Seitz)
5. 06:20 AM - Re: coolant issues? (Brian Davies)
6. 06:29 AM - Re: coolant issues? (Gilles Thesee)
7. 06:30 AM - BandC 20amp alternator (Fergus Kyle)
8. 07:27 AM - Rotax matters (Fred Klein)
9. 08:36 AM - Re: First Flight N108EA ()
10. 08:47 AM - Re: First Flight N108EA (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
11. 10:04 AM - BRS/CAPS (William Daniell)
12. 12:05 PM - Re: First Flight N108EA (sldpileit@aol.com)
13. 12:29 PM - Re: Rotax matters (Jos Okhuijsen)
14. 12:36 PM - Re: Rotax matters (Jos Okhuijsen)
15. 12:44 PM - Re: coolant issues? (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
16. 12:59 PM - Re: coolant issues? (Gilles Thesee)
17. 01:52 PM - Re: BRS/CAPS (Fred Klein)
18. 01:55 PM - Re: Rotax matters (Rob Housman)
19. 02:35 PM - Re: Rotax matters (BEBERRY@aol.com)
20. 03:37 PM - Re: First Flight N108EA (Rman)
21. 04:28 PM - Re: First Flight N108EA (rlborger)
22. 06:24 PM - Re: BRS/CAPS (R.C.Harrison)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: coolant issues? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Ralph,
> "...I just heard today that the new waterless fluid is flammable. I
> saw it burn today/ Stemme has issued an urgent SB to remove the stuff
> - I heard 2 fatalities of coolant leak catching fire. The 50 - 50
> solution will not burn. Oh well! Have you heard anything about this? I
> also discovered that the 100% solution of antifreeze burns too..."
Yes glycols are flammable. Remember those WWII air combat stories ?
The NPG+ consists of a blend of different glycols (propylene glycol
seems to be the main component, as in the regular NPG coolant).
Propylene glycol (1,2 propanediol) has a 107C flash point.
Please see SDS here http://www.sargentwelch.com/pdf/msds/sch94661.pdf
In my opinion, the main hazard is with mists and fumes. A pinpoint leak
may well produce some heavier-than-air flammable mist under the cowling.
Do you have additional info on this Stemme SB ?
Nowadays, very few people in Civil Aviation Authorities, if any, have a
clear understanding of what is involved in internal combustion engine
cooling...
From a pure technical point of view, there is little to be gained by
using those water-free coolants.
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: coolant issues? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> "...I just heard today that the new waterless fluid is flammable. I
> saw it burn today/ Stemme has issued an urgent SB to remove the stuff -
Found the SB :
http://www.stemme.de/daten/d/service/a3110076_01a_easa_ad.pdf
FWIW,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 3
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| Subject: | First Flight N108EA |
After 5 years my conventional gear Europa N108EA took to the skys over Zephrhills
Florida 16 Sep 2006. At the controls was test pilot Lee Orminick. All went
very well and I owe many thanks to the Guys at Flightcrafters for helping me relize
my dream. I have a 912s for power, Dyno EFIS, and EMS systems, also a 2
axis auto pilot tied into a Garmin 296 GPS. Thanks again guys!
MSGT SCOTT L. DINGMAN RRT,USAFR
SLDPILEIT@AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________
Message 4
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| Subject: | First Flight N108EA |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dean Seitz" <daseitz@cfl.rr.com>
Are you going to be based at Zepherhills? If so we will have to get
together. I'm at Titusville. Onlya short jump over there.
Dean Seitz
A284A XS TRI 914
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
sldpileit@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA
After 5 years my conventional gear Europa N108EA took to the skys over
Zephrhills Florida 16 Sep 2006. At the controls was test pilot Lee Orminick.
All went very well and I owe many thanks to the Guys at Flightcrafters for
helping me relize my dream. I have a 912s for power, Dyno EFIS, and EMS
systems, also a 2 axis auto pilot tied into a Garmin 296 GPS. Thanks again
guys!
MSGT SCOTT L. DINGMAN RRT,USAFR
SLDPILEIT@AOL.COM
________________________________
Message 5
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
I am surprised they were not aware it was flamable. So is pure glycol. As
long as you dont let it beyond the firewall it is surely no different to
the oil (flamable) and the fuel (very flamable).
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles Thesee
Sent: 17 October 2006 11:34
Subject: Re: Europa-List: coolant issues?
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee
--> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> "...I just heard today that the new waterless fluid is flammable. I
> saw it burn today/ Stemme has issued an urgent SB to remove the stuff
> -
Found the SB :
http://www.stemme.de/daten/d/service/a3110076_01a_easa_ad.pdf
FWIW,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
--
--
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: coolant issues? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Brian Davies a crit :
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
>
> I am surprised they were not aware it was flamable. So is pure glycol. As
> long as you dont let it beyond the firewall it is surely no different to
> the oil (flamable) and the fuel (very flamable).
>
Having a fire in flight, even on the "right" side of the firewall, would
be a real concern for me ;-)
Seriously, Rotax are just protecting themselves against lawsuits with
these Evans SBs.
There is technically no point in using the NPG+, so why bother ?
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 7
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| Subject: | BandC 20amp alternator |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
I note the subject ND20 is not much greater in size than the SD8 and wonder
if anyone has planned its installation in a 914 mono package?
Cheers,
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
Message 8
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Googling "UltraFlight Radio" will bring you TODAY the following
discussion of interest:
> Mike Stratman, California Power Systems, Inc.
> Mike Stratman clears up the differences between the Rotax 912 S and
> 912 ULS engines. Even thought they are basically the same engine, one
> is for certified and S-LSA aircraft and the other isn't. One can be
> worked on by anyone and the other needs special training. Mike can
> also answer your four stroke and two stroke ultralight aircraft engine
> questions. Do you have questions? When the show is live, call your
> questions in at (866) 613-1612 or you can IM them in on AOL or Yahoo
> Instant Messenger to UFRadio. California Power Systems
Fred
A194
Message 9
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| Subject: | First Flight N108EA |
Many congratulations Scott. Now the fun really begins! For the records,
can you tell me the weight of the aircraft, the propeller system and the
airport details. Total build hours would be helpful too. The records show
your aircraft was a monowheel. Conventional gear is normally a standard
tail dragger. Have you converted it?
I know you would rather be flying than answering questions but it would help
future builders .
Best regards
Brian Davies
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
sldpileit@aol.com
Sent: 17 October 2006 13:47
Subject: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA
After 5 years my conventional gear Europa N108EA took to the skys over
Zephrhills Florida 16 Sep 2006. At the controls was test pilot Lee Orminick.
All went very well and I owe many thanks to the Guys at Flightcrafters for
helping me relize my dream. I have a 912s for power, Dyno EFIS, and EMS
systems, also a 2 axis auto pilot tied into a Garmin 296 GPS. Thanks again
guys!
MSGT SCOTT L. DINGMAN RRT,USAFR
SLDPILEIT@AOL.COM
_____
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Europa-List
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
--
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight N108EA |
Hi, Scott,
Congratulations - just been there, know the feeling!
Enjoy!
Best regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
----- Original Message -----
From: sldpileit@aol.com
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:46 PM
Subject: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA
After 5 years my conventional gear Europa N108EA took to the skys over
Zephrhills Florida 16 Sep 2006. At the controls was test pilot Lee
Orminick. All went very well and I owe many thanks to the Guys at
Flightcrafters for helping me relize my dream. I have a 912s for power,
Dyno EFIS, and EMS systems, also a 2 axis auto pilot tied into a Garmin
296 GPS. Thanks again guys!
MSGT SCOTT L. DINGMAN RRT,USAFR
SLDPILEIT@AOL.COM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 11
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
Anyone tried to install a CAPS (complete airplane recovery system) like the
cirrus?
Will
Almost finished redoing my 0/90 screwup
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles Thesee
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 08:29
Subject: Re: Europa-List: coolant issues?
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Brian Davies a crit :
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
>
> I am surprised they were not aware it was flamable. So is pure glycol.
As
> long as you dont let it beyond the firewall it is surely no different to
> the oil (flamable) and the fuel (very flamable).
>
Having a fire in flight, even on the "right" side of the firewall, would
be a real concern for me ;-)
Seriously, Rotax are just protecting themselves against lawsuits with
these Evans SBs.
There is technically no point in using the NPG+, so why bother ?
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight N108EA |
I'm based near Dayton Ohio, but look forward to running into you someday. Maybe
at Sun N Fun
MSGT SCOTT L. DINGMAN RRT,USAFR
SLDPILEIT@AOL.COM
-----Original Message-----
From: daseitz@cfl.rr.com
Sent: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 9:07 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dean Seitz" <daseitz@cfl.rr.com>
Are you going to be based at Zepherhills? If so we will have to get
together. I'm at Titusville. Onlya short jump over there.
Dean Seitz
A284A XS TRI 914
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
sldpileit@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA
After 5 years my conventional gear Europa N108EA took to the skys over
Zephrhills Florida 16 Sep 2006. At the controls was test pilot Lee Orminick.
All went very well and I owe many thanks to the Guys at Flightcrafters for
helping me relize my dream. I have a 912s for power, Dyno EFIS, and EMS
systems, also a 2 axis auto pilot tied into a Garmin 296 GPS. Thanks again
guys!
MSGT SCOTT L. DINGMAN RRT,USAFR
SLDPILEIT@AOL.COM
________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax matters |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Fred,
No need to google ultrafight, it spams itself to anybody on the list.
Please do not support spammers.
--
Kind Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http:www.europaowners.org/kit600
mono xs, top on, gear in, tail wheel in, wings set, flapdrive in, tail
closed, tailwheel in, tail top in, blue stuff filled, sanded and primed,
fuel system in, doors done, windows in, sanding and filling the fuse and
wings.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax matters |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Hi Fred,
And fot the valuable content: The engines are part for part the same.
Certified engines can be worked on only by certified engeneers, or loose
their certification. Non certified engines can be worked on by anybody,
they won't loose the certification they don't have. The difference is only
in the paperwork, and maybe in the run-in/testing in the factory. But you
were joking weren't you?
--
Kind Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http:www.europaowners.org/kit600
mono xs, top on, gear in, tail wheel in, wings set, flapdrive in, tail
closed, tailwheel in, tail top in, blue stuff filled, sanded and primed,
fuel system in, doors done, windows in, sanding and filling the fuse and
wings.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: coolant issues? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Or that the 912 was originally designed and approved to run on 100% Ethylene
Glycol!!
Duncan McF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: coolant issues?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
>
> I am surprised they were not aware it was flamable. So is pure glycol.
> As
> long as you dont let it beyond the firewall it is surely no different to
> the oil (flamable) and the fuel (very flamable).
>
> Brian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles Thesee
> Sent: 17 October 2006 11:34
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: coolant issues?
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee
> --> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>
>>
>> "...I just heard today that the new waterless fluid is flammable. I
>> saw it burn today/ Stemme has issued an urgent SB to remove the stuff
>> -
>
> Found the SB :
>
> http://www.stemme.de/daten/d/service/a3110076_01a_easa_ad.pdf
>
> FWIW,
> Regards,
> Gilles Thesee
> Grenoble, France
> http://contrails.free.fr
>
>
> --
>
>
> --
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: coolant issues? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Duncan,
>
> Or that the 912 was originally designed and approved to run on 100%
> Ethylene Glycol!!
The 912 designed for 100% Glycol ? Ducan, can you give further details ?
Thanks,
Regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 17
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Will...short answer is no, though in talking w/ a Cirrus owner I
learned that the aircraft harness is embedded in a joggle in the moulds
and upon deployment, breaks thru the gelcoat. The chute itself fires
thru a "knock out" panel. I do not know the weight of the complete
system.
Fred
On Tuesday, October 17, 2006, at 10:02 AM, William Daniell wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell"
> <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
>
> Anyone tried to install a CAPS (complete airplane recovery system)
> like the
> cirrus?
>
> Will
>
Message 18
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <robh@hyperion-ef.us>
When I was ready to buy my 914 I asked the Rotax folks what the difference
was between the certificated and non-certificated versions. The answer was
that there are three differences - the certificated version uses expensive
spark plugs, comes with a piece of paper, and costs a lot more. That made
my decision easy. I went for the cheaper spark plugs.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jos Okhuijsen
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax matters
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Hi Fred,
And fot the valuable content: The engines are part for part the same.
Certified engines can be worked on only by certified engeneers, or loose
their certification. Non certified engines can be worked on by anybody,
they won't loose the certification they don't have. The difference is only
in the paperwork, and maybe in the run-in/testing in the factory. But you
were joking weren't you?
--
Kind Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http:www.europaowners.org/kit600
mono xs, top on, gear in, tail wheel in, wings set, flapdrive in, tail
closed, tailwheel in, tail top in, blue stuff filled, sanded and primed,
fuel system in, doors done, windows in, sanding and filling the fuse and
wings.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax matters |
When I was ready to buy my 914 I asked the Rotax folks what the difference
was between the certificated and non-certificated versions. The answer was
that there are three differences - the certificated version uses expensive
spark plugs, comes with a piece of paper, and costs a lot more. That made
my decision easy. I went for the cheaper spark plugs.
Too right - good decision. Spark plugs - same manufacture and certification
from a motor cycle dealers are approx one eighth cost of similar from a/c
component dealers,. Who is conning whom?
I reckon we are all being taken for a ride on many a/c components with the
excuse, by component dealers that they are complying with some CAA or FAA
ruling. Nonsense.
Patrick
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight N108EA |
Did sombody say Sun-N-Fun? :)
Jeff - Baby Blue
do not archive
sldpileit@aol.com wrote:
> I'm based near Dayton Ohio, but look forward to running into you
> someday. Maybe at Sun N Fun
>
> MSGT SCOTT L. DINGMAN RRT,USAFR
> SLDPILEIT@AOL.COM
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: daseitz@cfl.rr.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 9:07 AM
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dean Seitz" <daseitz@cfl.rr.com <mailto:daseitz%40cfl.rr.com>>
>
>Are you going to be based at Zepherhills? If so we will have to get
>together. I'm at Titusville. Onlya short jump over there.
>
>Dean Seitz
>A284A XS TRI 914
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <mailto:owner-europa-list-server%40matronics.com>
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <mailto:owner-europa-list-server%40matronics.com>] On Behalf Of
>sldpileit@aol.com <mailto:sldpileit%40aol.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 8:47 AM
>To: europa-list@matronics.com <mailto:europa-list%40matronics.com>
>Subject: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA
>
>After 5 years my conventional gear Europa N108EA took to the skys over
>Zephrhills Florida 16 Sep 2006. At the controls was test pilot Lee Orminick.
>All went very well and I owe many thanks to the Guys at Flightcrafters for
>helping me relize my dream. I have a 912s for power, Dyno EFIS, and EMS
>systems, also a 2 axis auto pilot tied into a Garmin 296 GPS. Thanks again
>guys!
>
>MSGT SCOTT L. DINGMAN RRT,USAFR
>SLDPILEIT@AOL.COM <mailto:SLDPILEIT%40AOL.COM>
>________________________________
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight N108EA |
MSGT Dingman,
Congratulations on the first flight of N108EA. Must be wonderful
when all that work comes to frutiion. Have fun flying and keep us up
to date as your flying progresses.
Great flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
(85%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch
system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in,
Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar
in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Flaps & Main Gear
complete. Working in - 24 Instrument Panel, 25 Electrical, 30 Fuel
System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing. Airmaster
arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. E04 interior kit
has arrived. Preparing for ROTAX 914 installation.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
Message 22
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Miles Mcallum
An editor in one of the UK magazines was doing one but I believe it all
died a death. It required a forward leg to the sling and so it was
likely to be necessary to have the sling embedded down the centre of the
windscreen.
Bob H G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Daniell
Sent: 17 October 2006 18:02
Subject: Europa-List: BRS/CAPS
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell"
<wdaniell@etb.net.co>
Anyone tried to install a CAPS (complete airplane recovery system) like
the
cirrus?
Will
Almost finished redoing my 0/90 screwup
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles
Thesee
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 08:29
Subject: Re: Europa-List: coolant issues?
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Brian Davies a crit :
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies"
<bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
>
> I am surprised they were not aware it was flamable. So is pure
glycol.
As
> long as you dont let it beyond the firewall it is surely no different
to
> the oil (flamable) and the fuel (very flamable).
>
Having a fire in flight, even on the "right" side of the firewall, would
be a real concern for me ;-)
Seriously, Rotax are just protecting themselves against lawsuits with
these Evans SBs.
There is technically no point in using the NPG+, so why bother ?
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
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