---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/17/06: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:25 AM - Re: coolant issues? (Gilles Thesee) 2. 03:36 AM - Re: coolant issues? (Gilles Thesee) 3. 05:48 AM - First Flight N108EA (sldpileit@aol.com) 4. 06:10 AM - Re: First Flight N108EA (Dean Seitz) 5. 06:20 AM - Re: coolant issues? (Brian Davies) 6. 06:29 AM - Re: coolant issues? (Gilles Thesee) 7. 06:30 AM - BandC 20amp alternator (Fergus Kyle) 8. 07:27 AM - Rotax matters (Fred Klein) 9. 08:36 AM - Re: First Flight N108EA () 10. 08:47 AM - Re: First Flight N108EA (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 11. 10:04 AM - BRS/CAPS (William Daniell) 12. 12:05 PM - Re: First Flight N108EA (sldpileit@aol.com) 13. 12:29 PM - Re: Rotax matters (Jos Okhuijsen) 14. 12:36 PM - Re: Rotax matters (Jos Okhuijsen) 15. 12:44 PM - Re: coolant issues? (Duncan & Ami McFadyean) 16. 12:59 PM - Re: coolant issues? (Gilles Thesee) 17. 01:52 PM - Re: BRS/CAPS (Fred Klein) 18. 01:55 PM - Re: Rotax matters (Rob Housman) 19. 02:35 PM - Re: Rotax matters (BEBERRY@aol.com) 20. 03:37 PM - Re: First Flight N108EA (Rman) 21. 04:28 PM - Re: First Flight N108EA (rlborger) 22. 06:24 PM - Re: BRS/CAPS (R.C.Harrison) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:25:50 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: coolant issues? --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee Ralph, > "...I just heard today that the new waterless fluid is flammable. I > saw it burn today/ Stemme has issued an urgent SB to remove the stuff > - I heard 2 fatalities of coolant leak catching fire. The 50 - 50 > solution will not burn. Oh well! Have you heard anything about this? I > also discovered that the 100% solution of antifreeze burns too..." Yes glycols are flammable. Remember those WWII air combat stories ? The NPG+ consists of a blend of different glycols (propylene glycol seems to be the main component, as in the regular NPG coolant). Propylene glycol (1,2 propanediol) has a 107C flash point. Please see SDS here http://www.sargentwelch.com/pdf/msds/sch94661.pdf In my opinion, the main hazard is with mists and fumes. A pinpoint leak may well produce some heavier-than-air flammable mist under the cowling. Do you have additional info on this Stemme SB ? Nowadays, very few people in Civil Aviation Authorities, if any, have a clear understanding of what is involved in internal combustion engine cooling... From a pure technical point of view, there is little to be gained by using those water-free coolants. Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:02 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: coolant issues? --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee > > "...I just heard today that the new waterless fluid is flammable. I > saw it burn today/ Stemme has issued an urgent SB to remove the stuff - Found the SB : http://www.stemme.de/daten/d/service/a3110076_01a_easa_ad.pdf FWIW, Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:05 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA From: sldpileit@aol.com After 5 years my conventional gear Europa N108EA took to the skys over Zephrhills Florida 16 Sep 2006. At the controls was test pilot Lee Orminick. All went very well and I owe many thanks to the Guys at Flightcrafters for helping me relize my dream. I have a 912s for power, Dyno EFIS, and EMS systems, also a 2 axis auto pilot tied into a Garmin 296 GPS. Thanks again guys! MSGT SCOTT L. DINGMAN RRT,USAFR SLDPILEIT@AOL.COM ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:29 AM PST US From: "Dean Seitz" Subject: RE: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dean Seitz" Are you going to be based at Zepherhills? If so we will have to get together. I'm at Titusville. Onlya short jump over there. Dean Seitz A284A XS TRI 914 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of sldpileit@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 8:47 AM Subject: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA After 5 years my conventional gear Europa N108EA took to the skys over Zephrhills Florida 16 Sep 2006. At the controls was test pilot Lee Orminick. All went very well and I owe many thanks to the Guys at Flightcrafters for helping me relize my dream. I have a 912s for power, Dyno EFIS, and EMS systems, also a 2 axis auto pilot tied into a Garmin 296 GPS. Thanks again guys! MSGT SCOTT L. DINGMAN RRT,USAFR SLDPILEIT@AOL.COM ________________________________ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:38 AM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: RE: Europa-List: coolant issues? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" I am surprised they were not aware it was flamable. So is pure glycol. As long as you dont let it beyond the firewall it is surely no different to the oil (flamable) and the fuel (very flamable). Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles Thesee Sent: 17 October 2006 11:34 Subject: Re: Europa-List: coolant issues? --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee --> > > "...I just heard today that the new waterless fluid is flammable. I > saw it burn today/ Stemme has issued an urgent SB to remove the stuff > - Found the SB : http://www.stemme.de/daten/d/service/a3110076_01a_easa_ad.pdf FWIW, Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr -- -- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:33 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: coolant issues? --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee Brian Davies a crit : > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" > > I am surprised they were not aware it was flamable. So is pure glycol. As > long as you dont let it beyond the firewall it is surely no different to > the oil (flamable) and the fuel (very flamable). > Having a fire in flight, even on the "right" side of the firewall, would be a real concern for me ;-) Seriously, Rotax are just protecting themselves against lawsuits with these Evans SBs. There is technically no point in using the NPG+, so why bother ? Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:10 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: BandC 20amp alternator --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" I note the subject ND20 is not much greater in size than the SD8 and wonder if anyone has planned its installation in a 914 mono package? Cheers, Ferg Kyle Europa A064 914 Classic ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:12 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Rotax matters From: Fred Klein Googling "UltraFlight Radio" will bring you TODAY the following discussion of interest: > Mike Stratman, California Power Systems, Inc. > Mike Stratman clears up the differences between the Rotax 912 S and > 912 ULS engines. Even thought they are basically the same engine, one > is for certified and S-LSA aircraft and the other isn't. One can be > worked on by anyone and the other needs special training. Mike can > also answer your four stroke and two stroke ultralight aircraft engine > questions. Do you have questions? When the show is live, call your > questions in at (866) 613-1612 or you can IM them in on AOL or Yahoo > Instant Messenger to UFRadio. California Power Systems Fred A194 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:51 AM PST US From: Subject: RE: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA Many congratulations Scott. Now the fun really begins! For the records, can you tell me the weight of the aircraft, the propeller system and the airport details. Total build hours would be helpful too. The records show your aircraft was a monowheel. Conventional gear is normally a standard tail dragger. Have you converted it? I know you would rather be flying than answering questions but it would help future builders . Best regards Brian Davies _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of sldpileit@aol.com Sent: 17 October 2006 13:47 Subject: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA After 5 years my conventional gear Europa N108EA took to the skys over Zephrhills Florida 16 Sep 2006. At the controls was test pilot Lee Orminick. All went very well and I owe many thanks to the Guys at Flightcrafters for helping me relize my dream. I have a 912s for power, Dyno EFIS, and EMS systems, also a 2 axis auto pilot tied into a Garmin 296 GPS. Thanks again guys! MSGT SCOTT L. DINGMAN RRT,USAFR SLDPILEIT@AOL.COM _____ "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Europa-List "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- -- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:05 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA Hi, Scott, Congratulations - just been there, know the feeling! Enjoy! Best regards, Svein LN-SKJ ----- Original Message ----- From: sldpileit@aol.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:46 PM Subject: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA After 5 years my conventional gear Europa N108EA took to the skys over Zephrhills Florida 16 Sep 2006. At the controls was test pilot Lee Orminick. All went very well and I owe many thanks to the Guys at Flightcrafters for helping me relize my dream. I have a 912s for power, Dyno EFIS, and EMS systems, also a 2 axis auto pilot tied into a Garmin 296 GPS. Thanks again guys! MSGT SCOTT L. DINGMAN RRT,USAFR SLDPILEIT@AOL.COM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:43 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: Europa-List: BRS/CAPS --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" Anyone tried to install a CAPS (complete airplane recovery system) like the cirrus? Will Almost finished redoing my 0/90 screwup -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles Thesee Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 08:29 Subject: Re: Europa-List: coolant issues? --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee Brian Davies a crit : > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" > > I am surprised they were not aware it was flamable. So is pure glycol. As > long as you dont let it beyond the firewall it is surely no different to > the oil (flamable) and the fuel (very flamable). > Having a fire in flight, even on the "right" side of the firewall, would be a real concern for me ;-) Seriously, Rotax are just protecting themselves against lawsuits with these Evans SBs. There is technically no point in using the NPG+, so why bother ? Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:05:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA From: sldpileit@aol.com I'm based near Dayton Ohio, but look forward to running into you someday. Maybe at Sun N Fun MSGT SCOTT L. DINGMAN RRT,USAFR SLDPILEIT@AOL.COM -----Original Message----- From: daseitz@cfl.rr.com Sent: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 9:07 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dean Seitz" Are you going to be based at Zepherhills? If so we will have to get together. I'm at Titusville. Onlya short jump over there. Dean Seitz A284A XS TRI 914 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of sldpileit@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 8:47 AM Subject: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA After 5 years my conventional gear Europa N108EA took to the skys over Zephrhills Florida 16 Sep 2006. At the controls was test pilot Lee Orminick. All went very well and I owe many thanks to the Guys at Flightcrafters for helping me relize my dream. I have a 912s for power, Dyno EFIS, and EMS systems, also a 2 axis auto pilot tied into a Garmin 296 GPS. Thanks again guys! MSGT SCOTT L. DINGMAN RRT,USAFR SLDPILEIT@AOL.COM ________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:29:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax matters From: "Jos Okhuijsen" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen" Fred, No need to google ultrafight, it spams itself to anybody on the list. Please do not support spammers. -- Kind Regards, Jos Okhuijsen workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane http:www.europaowners.org/kit600 mono xs, top on, gear in, tail wheel in, wings set, flapdrive in, tail closed, tailwheel in, tail top in, blue stuff filled, sanded and primed, fuel system in, doors done, windows in, sanding and filling the fuse and wings. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:36:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax matters From: "Jos Okhuijsen" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen" Hi Fred, And fot the valuable content: The engines are part for part the same. Certified engines can be worked on only by certified engeneers, or loose their certification. Non certified engines can be worked on by anybody, they won't loose the certification they don't have. The difference is only in the paperwork, and maybe in the run-in/testing in the factory. But you were joking weren't you? -- Kind Regards, Jos Okhuijsen workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane http:www.europaowners.org/kit600 mono xs, top on, gear in, tail wheel in, wings set, flapdrive in, tail closed, tailwheel in, tail top in, blue stuff filled, sanded and primed, fuel system in, doors done, windows in, sanding and filling the fuse and wings. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:30 PM PST US From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: coolant issues? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" Or that the 912 was originally designed and approved to run on 100% Ethylene Glycol!! Duncan McF ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Davies" Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:19 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: coolant issues? > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" > > I am surprised they were not aware it was flamable. So is pure glycol. > As > long as you dont let it beyond the firewall it is surely no different to > the oil (flamable) and the fuel (very flamable). > > Brian > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles Thesee > Sent: 17 October 2006 11:34 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: coolant issues? > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee > --> > > >> >> "...I just heard today that the new waterless fluid is flammable. I >> saw it burn today/ Stemme has issued an urgent SB to remove the stuff >> - > > Found the SB : > > http://www.stemme.de/daten/d/service/a3110076_01a_easa_ad.pdf > > FWIW, > Regards, > Gilles Thesee > Grenoble, France > http://contrails.free.fr > > > -- > > > -- > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:12 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: coolant issues? --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee Duncan, > > Or that the 912 was originally designed and approved to run on 100% > Ethylene Glycol!! The 912 designed for 100% Glycol ? Ducan, can you give further details ? Thanks, Regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: BRS/CAPS From: Fred Klein --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein Will...short answer is no, though in talking w/ a Cirrus owner I learned that the aircraft harness is embedded in a joggle in the moulds and upon deployment, breaks thru the gelcoat. The chute itself fires thru a "knock out" panel. I do not know the weight of the complete system. Fred On Tuesday, October 17, 2006, at 10:02 AM, William Daniell wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" > > > Anyone tried to install a CAPS (complete airplane recovery system) > like the > cirrus? > > Will > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:56 PM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax matters --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" When I was ready to buy my 914 I asked the Rotax folks what the difference was between the certificated and non-certificated versions. The answer was that there are three differences - the certificated version uses expensive spark plugs, comes with a piece of paper, and costs a lot more. That made my decision easy. I went for the cheaper spark plugs. Best regards, Rob Housman A070 Airframe complete Irvine, CA -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jos Okhuijsen Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:35 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax matters --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen" Hi Fred, And fot the valuable content: The engines are part for part the same. Certified engines can be worked on only by certified engeneers, or loose their certification. Non certified engines can be worked on by anybody, they won't loose the certification they don't have. The difference is only in the paperwork, and maybe in the run-in/testing in the factory. But you were joking weren't you? -- Kind Regards, Jos Okhuijsen workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane http:www.europaowners.org/kit600 mono xs, top on, gear in, tail wheel in, wings set, flapdrive in, tail closed, tailwheel in, tail top in, blue stuff filled, sanded and primed, fuel system in, doors done, windows in, sanding and filling the fuse and wings. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:45 PM PST US From: BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax matters When I was ready to buy my 914 I asked the Rotax folks what the difference was between the certificated and non-certificated versions. The answer was that there are three differences - the certificated version uses expensive spark plugs, comes with a piece of paper, and costs a lot more. That made my decision easy. I went for the cheaper spark plugs. Too right - good decision. Spark plugs - same manufacture and certification from a motor cycle dealers are approx one eighth cost of similar from a/c component dealers,. Who is conning whom? I reckon we are all being taken for a ride on many a/c components with the excuse, by component dealers that they are complying with some CAA or FAA ruling. Nonsense. Patrick ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:43 PM PST US From: Rman Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA Did sombody say Sun-N-Fun? :) Jeff - Baby Blue do not archive sldpileit@aol.com wrote: > I'm based near Dayton Ohio, but look forward to running into you > someday. Maybe at Sun N Fun > > MSGT SCOTT L. DINGMAN RRT,USAFR > SLDPILEIT@AOL.COM > > > -----Original Message----- > From: daseitz@cfl.rr.com > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 9:07 AM > Subject: RE: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dean Seitz" > > >Are you going to be based at Zepherhills? If so we will have to get >together. I'm at Titusville. Onlya short jump over there. > >Dean Seitz >A284A XS TRI 914 > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of >sldpileit@aol.com >Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 8:47 AM >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: First Flight N108EA > >After 5 years my conventional gear Europa N108EA took to the skys over >Zephrhills Florida 16 Sep 2006. At the controls was test pilot Lee Orminick. >All went very well and I owe many thanks to the Guys at Flightcrafters for >helping me relize my dream. I have a 912s for power, Dyno EFIS, and EMS >systems, also a 2 axis auto pilot tied into a Garmin 296 GPS. Thanks again >guys! > >MSGT SCOTT L. DINGMAN RRT,USAFR >SLDPILEIT@AOL.COM >________________________________ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:28:21 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: First Flight N108EA From: rlborger MSGT Dingman, Congratulations on the first flight of N108EA. Must be wonderful when all that work comes to frutiion. Have fun flying and keep us up to date as your flying progresses. Great flying, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL (85%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Flaps & Main Gear complete. Working in - 24 Instrument Panel, 25 Electrical, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing. Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. E04 interior kit has arrived. Preparing for ROTAX 914 installation. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:45 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: BRS/CAPS --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Miles Mcallum An editor in one of the UK magazines was doing one but I believe it all died a death. It required a forward leg to the sling and so it was likely to be necessary to have the sling embedded down the centre of the windscreen. Bob H G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 17 October 2006 18:02 Subject: Europa-List: BRS/CAPS --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" Anyone tried to install a CAPS (complete airplane recovery system) like the cirrus? Will Almost finished redoing my 0/90 screwup -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles Thesee Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 08:29 Subject: Re: Europa-List: coolant issues? --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee Brian Davies a crit : > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" > > I am surprised they were not aware it was flamable. So is pure glycol. As > long as you dont let it beyond the firewall it is surely no different to > the oil (flamable) and the fuel (very flamable). > Having a fire in flight, even on the "right" side of the firewall, would be a real concern for me ;-) Seriously, Rotax are just protecting themselves against lawsuits with these Evans SBs. There is technically no point in using the NPG+, so why bother ? Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr