Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:22 AM - engine preservation (Richard Iddon)
2. 01:04 AM - Re: Cabin heat (Bob Hitchcock)
3. 01:18 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow transducer (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
4. 02:02 AM - Re: Fuel Flow transducer (Paul Sistern)
5. 02:16 AM - Re: engine preservation (Paul Sistern)
6. 02:31 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow transducer (Graham Singleton)
7. 02:40 AM - Re: engine preservation (Alan Burrows)
8. 03:12 AM - Re: engine preservation (Richard Iddon)
9. 03:51 AM - Re: engine preservation (Richard Iddon)
10. 04:57 AM - Re: Stuck with low power, what would you do? (William Harrison)
11. 06:09 AM - Re: PROBABLE SPAM> Re: Before the top goes on (Paul McAllister)
12. 06:42 AM - Re: PROBABLE SPAM> Re: Before the top goes on (William Daniell)
13. 12:59 PM - Re: engine preservation (Rob Neils, Ph.D.)
14. 01:32 PM - Re: engine preservation (Graham Singleton)
15. 01:58 PM - Re: Cabin heat (Graham Singleton)
16. 02:09 PM - Re: Cabin heat (Gilles Thesee)
Message 1
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| Subject: | engine preservation |
Due to other commitments I am laying my 912S up for an extended period.
The Rotax engine manual calls for oil change, injection of 'corrosion
inhibiting oil' into the carb's whilst the engine is running, closing
all holes such as exhaust etc and spraying the outside with corrosion
inhibiting oil. What would the recommended oil be for this and, other
than the steps above, is there anything else I should consider?
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
--
01/11/2006
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Hitchcock" <robert.hitchcock@virgin.net>
Have a heater, never needed it. I just wear a dashing leather jacket
Regards
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <brian.lonnon@tiscali.co.uk>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 8:21 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Cabin heat
> --> Europa-List message posted by: <brian.lonnon@tiscali.co.uk>
>
> Hi,
>
> Three of us are just acquiring a trigear XS which has a Jabiru 3300
> engine.
> It doesn't have any cabin heat and so is a bit parky!
>
> I have looked on the Europa club abd manufacturer's website but can't find
> any details on cabin heat.
>
> Can anyone help?
>
> Thanks
>
> Brian
>
> (almost G-BYFG)
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow transducer |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Paul,
ST Aviation also offer the alternative of a Floscan sender with their fuel
computer.
If your sender is the same as ST's standard offering, then 'good luck and
stick to Avgas'. There has been one Europa forced landing (='crash', see
AAIB reports) due to the use of one of these particular sensors
(rust/magnetite particles accumulated on the magnets in the sensor, causing
further restriction to the fuel flow) despite a filter being present
upstream. Even without the restrictor jet, the internal bore of the device
is only about 4mm (i.e. the internal step that the jet would sit on, not the
1/4" quoted for the ID of the inlet stub).
PFA Inspectors aren't cleared to sign-off major mods, the definition of
which include such changes to the fuel system, see:
http://www.pfa.org.uk/Engineering%20pdfs/Mods%20and%20Repairs/TL%203.09%20Classification%20of%20Mods%20and%20Repairs.pdf
I also know that PFA Engineering have been less than happy about the use of
one of these sensors on a Jabiru Rans S6; I think this may by now be
cleared. But 80hp only, Avgas usage and much lower 'landing' energy might
have been a consideration in this.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Sistern" <paul@sistern.freeserve.co.uk>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 8:47 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Flow transducer
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul Sistern"
> <paul@sistern.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm a dealer for MGL Stratomaster, see www.partsforaircraft.co.uk I'm
> also a Jabiru builder and owner/flyer (sorry it's not a Europa but my
> garage wasn't big enough). I'm suprised by some of the comments made here
> about the flow sender. The current model being supplied has a fuel bypass
> chamber to prevent blockage should the rotor become jammed. The by-pass
> chamber is clearly visible by looking down the inlet pipe. I have one in
> my aircraft and my PFA inspector has accepted it. It's the same sender
> that ST Aviation (UK Jabiru dealer) supply with their in-house fuel
> computer.
>
> There was an issue with the older style rotating vane senders where no
> facility existed for flow by-pass should the rotor get blocked or jammed
> by debris in the fuel. The PFA required (at the time) a fuel by-pass
> system for that type. In any case, a fuel filter should be fitted in the
> fuel line and it should be installed before the fuel sender regardless of
> type.
>
> Oh, and by the way, the Stratomaster fuel guages will work with any sender
> and the 2 1/4" FF-2 and 3 1/2" FF-3 can handle differential flow created
> by Rotax fuel return.
>
> Regards,
> Paul
> G-CBKY
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=72127#72127
>
>
>
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow transducer |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul Sistern" <paul@sistern.freeserve.co.uk>
Duncan,
Thank you very much for that information. I will advise people accordingly and
investigate further via the PFA.
The option of Floscan with the ST unit is not listed on their current price list.
I bought the ST unit with my Jabiru kit in 2000 as an approved option. I guess
that changing from that old sender to a new MGL supplied sender was not seen
as a mod but as a replacement (rightly or wrongly)by my inspector. Again, I
will investigate further via the PFA.
As an MGL Stratomaster dealer I am glad to say that the fuel flow instruments are
sold separately from the sender. The choice is with the buyer as to what sender
he uses. Floscan sounds like a good option.
Regards,
Paul
G-CBKY
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=72220#72220
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: engine preservation |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul Sistern" <paul@sistern.freeserve.co.uk>
Hi Richard,
Enginewise do a 'Petrol Engine Lay-Up Kit' which includes everything for protecting the engine over extended periods, including dehydration plugs in 12mm size to replace one plug per cylinder. See www.partsforaircraft.co.uk or www.enginewise.co.uk for all sorts of anti-corrosion products.
Cheers,
Paul
G-CBKY
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=72221#72221
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow transducer |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
Duncan
afaik The Floscan uses infra red sensing so there are no magnets. Also
no interference with avionics. The accident I'm aware of, (not a crash)
was caused by the flow sensor that has a slit, not a hole.
Graham
Duncan & Ami McFadyean wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean"
> <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> There has been one Europa forced landing (='crash', see AAIB reports)
> due to the use of one of these particular sensors (rust/magnetite
> particles accumulated on the magnets in the sensor, causing further
> restriction to the fuel flow) despite a filter being present upstream.
>
> Duncan McF.
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Message 7
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| Subject: | engine preservation |
Hi Richard,
Kate and I have just returned from the International Comanche Society
Convention in Australia and whilst there we attended a lecture on this very
subject given by a senior Lycoming exec.He told us that shell have just
developed a new oil for this purpose. Apparently it leaves a coating on all
the moving parts that remain attached for a considerable time, and prevents
internal deterioration and corrosion. Sorry I can't remember it's exact name
( I was prob asleep by this stage) I think it was something like Aeroshell
30 but if you contact the Shell website I am sure they will advise.
Interestingly he also recommended removing the oil filler cap after running
the engine to allow vapour to escape from the hot engine rather than remain
inside , probably not as relevant to us given that we have a separate oil
tank but still worth noting. The other important thing that came out of this
lecture was the need to seal all external holes to prevent ingress.
Hope this helps, don't stay grounded for too long.
Kind regards
Alan
Ps our twin commanche is currently being overhauled at ANT just round the
corner from you! So we might see you at Blackpool shortly.
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Iddon
Sent: 04 November 2006 08:22
Subject: Europa-List: engine preservation
Due to other commitments I am laying my 912S up for an extended period. The
Rotax engine manual calls for oil change, injection of 'corrosion inhibiting
oil' into the carb's whilst the engine is running, closing all holes such as
exhaust etc and spraying the outside with corrosion inhibiting oil. What
would the recommended oil be for this and, other than the steps above, is
there anything else I should consider?
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
--
01/11/2006
Message 8
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| Subject: | engine preservation |
Alan.
Thanks for the tip. I=92ll check the shell web site.
My bird is at home at present and I am heading back to my boat in
Trinidad next week with a plan to head for Panama and maybe cross the
Pacific next year so I don=92t think there is much chance of bumping
into
you at Blackpool for a while.
Hope your plan to take yours to Florida comes off. I guess it is a
lovely place to fly.
Regards.
Richard.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan
Burrows
Sent: 04 November 2006 10:39
Subject: RE: Europa-List: engine preservation
Hi Richard,
Kate and I have just returned from the International Comanche Society
Convention in Australia and whilst there we attended a lecture on this
very subject given by a senior Lycoming exec.He told us that shell have
just developed a new oil for this purpose. Apparently it leaves a
coating on all the moving parts that remain attached for a considerable
time, and prevents internal deterioration and corrosion. Sorry I can=92t
remember it=92s exact name ( I was prob asleep by this stage) I think it
was something like Aeroshell 30 but if you contact the Shell website I
am sure they will advise.
Interestingly he also recommended removing the oil filler cap after
running the engine to allow vapour to escape from the hot engine rather
than remain inside , probably not as relevant to us given that we have a
separate oil tank but still worth noting. The other important thing that
came out of this lecture was the need to seal all external holes to
prevent ingress.
Hope this helps, don=92t stay grounded for too long.
Kind regards
Alan
Ps our twin commanche is currently being overhauled at ANT just round
the corner from you! So we might see you at Blackpool shortly.
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Iddon
Sent: 04 November 2006 08:22
Subject: Europa-List: engine preservation
Due to other commitments I am laying my 912S up for an extended period.
The Rotax engine manual calls for oil change, injection of =91corrosion
inhibiting oil=92 into the carb=92s whilst the engine is running,
closing
all holes such as exhaust etc and spraying the outside with corrosion
inhibiting oil. What would the recommended oil be for this and, other
than the steps above, is there anything else I should consider?
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
--
01/11/2006
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Europa-List
--
03/11/2006
--
03/11/2006
Message 9
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| Subject: | engine preservation |
Oops sorry, that should have just gone to Alan.
Do not archive.
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Iddon
Sent: 04 November 2006 11:11
Subject: RE: Europa-List: engine preservation
Alan.
Thanks for the tip. I=92ll check the shell web site.
My bird is at home at present and I am heading back to my boat in
Trinidad next week with a plan to head for Panama and maybe cross the
Pacific next year so I don=92t think there is much chance of bumping
into
you at Blackpool for a while.
Hope your plan to take yours to Florida comes off. I guess it is a
lovely place to fly.
Regards.
Richard.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan
Burrows
Sent: 04 November 2006 10:39
Subject: RE: Europa-List: engine preservation
Hi Richard,
Kate and I have just returned from the International Comanche Society
Convention in Australia and whilst there we attended a lecture on this
very subject given by a senior Lycoming exec.He told us that shell have
just developed a new oil for this purpose. Apparently it leaves a
coating on all the moving parts that remain attached for a considerable
time, and prevents internal deterioration and corrosion. Sorry I can=92t
remember it=92s exact name ( I was prob asleep by this stage) I think it
was something like Aeroshell 30 but if you contact the Shell website I
am sure they will advise.
Interestingly he also recommended removing the oil filler cap after
running the engine to allow vapour to escape from the hot engine rather
than remain inside , probably not as relevant to us given that we have a
separate oil tank but still worth noting. The other important thing that
came out of this lecture was the need to seal all external holes to
prevent ingress.
Hope this helps, don=92t stay grounded for too long.
Kind regards
Alan
Ps our twin commanche is currently being overhauled at ANT just round
the corner from you! So we might see you at Blackpool shortly.
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Iddon
Sent: 04 November 2006 08:22
Subject: Europa-List: engine preservation
Due to other commitments I am laying my 912S up for an extended period.
The Rotax engine manual calls for oil change, injection of =91corrosion
inhibiting oil=92 into the carb=92s whilst the engine is running,
closing
all holes such as exhaust etc and spraying the outside with corrosion
inhibiting oil. What would the recommended oil be for this and, other
than the steps above, is there anything else I should consider?
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
--
01/11/2006
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November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Stuck with low power, what would you do? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: William Harrison <willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk>
A similar thing happened to a student pilot in a Tiger Moth at
Cambridge a few years back. He had the presence of mind to crawl
round the circuit to a position he recognised from forced landing
training then kill both magnetos before pulling off a copybook
deadstick landing. It made a few experienced pilots wonder if they'd
have coped so well.
Willie harrison
G-BZNY
On 3 Nov 2006, at 18:03, <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
<rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
> Just heard a tale by a friend test flying a RV. 1st flight, go up and
> about, did a series of stalls, all OK.
>
> Wants to do a flyby, gets on downwind with perhaps 16 or 1500 RPM,
> turns
> base to final and pulls power, nothing, stuck right where he left
> it, goes
> full power, nothing. At a few hundred feet.
>
> Full flaps, slips and now half of the runway is used up, nothing
> but heavy
> forest, still too hot. At that second he knew he should have killed
> engine
> and play glider, but too late. He tried to milk altitude, and turn and
> land downwind, stalled, dropped a wing. No injuries to himself,
> slid 3 to
> 400 feet, but bird was pretty hurt.
>
> He has hours approaching 5 figures, has plenty of experience flying
> homebuilts.
>
> Put yourself in his position, it is not something I have ever
> practiced,
> but will.
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Before the top goes on |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
William,
I had the base in a full length jig and the top just cleo'd on for all of my
alignments. It was very ridged and I didn't have any problems with that
approach
Take at look at http://europa363.versadev.com/, 2001 June.
Paul
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Before the top goes on |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
Paul can you give me month or am I being stupid (quite probable)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul McAllister
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 09:06
Subject: RE: PROBABLE SPAM> RE: Europa-List: Before the top goes on
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister"
<paul.mcallister@qia.net>
William,
I had the base in a full length jig and the top just cleo'd on for all of my
alignments. It was very ridged and I didn't have any problems with that
approach
Take at look at http://europa363.versadev.com/, 2001 June.
Paul
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Message 13
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| Subject: | engine preservation |
Here=92s an engine dehumidifier you can build to increase the
probability that
your engine will make it to TBO.
An Engine Dehumidifier
EAA Chapter 79 Spokane, WA ---Dave Barker
The only owners likely to reach TBO targets are those who use their
aircraft
on a nearly daily basis. Why? The reason is not the flying. It is the
parking! The primary culprit for premature aircraft engine overhaul is
corrosion caused by condensation within the engine cavity that occurs
after
shutdown. Aircraft engines that are used daily frequently reach their
rated
TBO because liquid condensate is boiled off on a regular basis. Low use
results in reduced engine life. As the engine cools and the internal
temperature drops below the dew point, liquid moisture condenses out of
the
vapor and clings to internal engine surfaces. This liquid water then
resumes
its ongoing process of eating up your engine from the inside out.
However,
if the dew point can be made sufficiently low, then liquid water will
never
form. The engine dehumidifier provides a continuous positive pressure
injection of extremely dry air (dew point approximately -100=B0F) on a
24/7
continuous flow basis.
How it works:
The dehumidifier is connected the engine as soon after engine shutdown
as
possible before it cools. It is then run on a 24/7 basis. A small
aquarium
air pump forces ambient humid air thru a Plenum bottle containing Silica
Gel, the stuff used in shipping and storing aircraft engines and
electronics. The Silica Gel has a great affinity for moisture and
literally
sucks it out of the air. The dried air is filtered and injected into the
engine crankcase.
Any moisture inside the engine vaporizes with the incoming dry air and
is
displaced overboard by the constant positive pressure from the air pump.
At
some point in time, the Silica Gel will absorb all the moisture it can
hold
and turns blue.
At that time:
1. Remove the Blue saturated Silica Gel from the bottle.
2. Spread it out on a cookie sheet.
3. Heat in oven at 350=B0F until it turns pinkish again.
4. Cool and return to the plenum bottle.
That's' it.
The frequency of this recycle rate will depend up the humidity of the
local
environment varying from six months or more in dry regions down to just
a
few weeks in deeply humid climates. Adding more Silica Gel to the Plenum
will extend the service interval.
Connection hookup:
Connect the drier output via Tygon plastic tubing to a convenient engine
crankcase access port usually the crankcase blow-by vent. Alternately,
a
short standpipe may be added oil filler cap. I adapted a custom oil
filler
cap by drilling through the length of a 1/4" -20 carriage bolt. (I used
a
lathe to cut off the threads on the leading =BD=94 of the bolt. This
permits a
slip fit of the Tygon dry air supply hose. The hollow bolt was then
installed on the oil fill cap. Additionally I made a 11/4=94 -20
threaded
Delrin plastic plug to cap this little standpipe for flight.
Please NOTE: If you chose to use the crankcase blow-by vent pipe as the
input port you will have to also devise a temporary plug for the
freeze-emergency blow-by slot located few inches up the blow-by vent
pipe
inside the aircraft engine nacelle. If this slot is not blocked~ then
you
will be dumping the dried air out of this slot instead of into the
engine
crankcase.
Dehumidifier Components consist of:
1. Vibrating reed type aquarium air pump.*
2. 2-liter plastic pop bottle.
3. Airstone aquarium air bubbler
4. Six feet of 1/8=94 bore Tygon plastic aquarium tubing.
5. 12=94 of 3/16=94 o.d. (1/8=94 i.d.) rigid plastic tubing.
6. 1 pound of silica gel pellets.
*Note: The low cost aquarium pumps do have an irritating 60 Hz buzzes
caused
by their vibrating reed design. So-called =93silent=94 pumps are of the
same
design but are supported in a manner the will minimize noise. If you
spend
allot of time in the hangar get the =93silent=94 pump.
Tools Required:
Exacto Knife
3/16=94 drill
Hot Glue Gun
Parts List:
Aquarium Air Pump (* Optional Silent Air Pump)
2 liter clear plastic pop bottle with screw on cap.
6=92 Tygon aquarium tubing
l2" rigid 1/8"plastic tubing
Aquarium bubbler Air Stone
1 lb. Silica Gel Pellets or desiccant pellets or if you are at an
absolute
loss in scrounging Silica Gel, it can be purchased from the Michel's
Craft
Stores Chain. They sell it for drying flowers. It is highly overpriced.
One
of our chapter members scored 50 lbs of Silica Gel from our local
airport
engine conversion shop that installs P&W turbines on the Piper Malibu.
The
new turbines containers are packaged with Silica Gel.
Fabrication:
Drill 2 ea. 3/16" -1/4" off the center in the top of the bottle cap
close
enough to enter to allow easy tube clearance of the bottle neck interior
wall. For the pump inlet input, insert a 2" length of the rigid tubing
in
one hole and hot glue in place.
Insert the remaining 10" rigid tube in the other hole and hot glue it so
the
bottom end of the tube is positioned about 2" from the bottom of the
bottle.
Use a 1" length of the Tygon flex tube to connect the aquarium bubbler
Airstone to the end of the longer rigid tubing. The Airstone is used as
a
dust filter to keep Silica Gel articles out of the engine. The Airstone
should lie on the bottom of the bottle.
Fill a clean dry 2-liter pop bottle with 1 pound of Silica Gel pellets
or
Granules. Insert Airstone/tube assembly, work it to the bottom of the
bottle and tighten the cap. Use Tygon tubing to plumb the air pump to
the
short air input stub. Connect 5 feet or so of Tygon tubing to the
Airstone
equipped exit port and to the crankcase breather port or any other
convenient access to the engine crankcase. Note: This must be a leak
tight
fit. Mating to a typical crankcase vent tube usually located near the
firewall may be done by inserting a piece of the rigid tubing through a
closed-cell-foam ball or a tight fitting rubber stopper.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: engine preservation |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
Rob
there is another way that some Lycosaurus boys use to prep their engines
for winter, (in Michigan) fill the engine completely with oil, that way
there's no room for air so no condensate.
The dehumidifier would be good for intermittent use, the oil fill for a
3 month shut down until the snow goes away.
Graham
Rob Neils, Ph.D. wrote:
> Heres an engine dehumidifier you can build to increase the
> probability that your engine will make it to TBO.
>
>*
>*
>
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Message 15
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
Tom
thanks for the compliment but never forget, I'm not always right, :-[
I find it hard to believe that the Jab doesn't need an oil cooler and
that's what I would be tempted to use. Otherwise go with an exhaust
muffler and an electronic CO monitor, as you syggest, but not one of the
cheap brown dot things. Wouldn't trust one of those.
Graham
Tom Friedland wrote:
> Thanks Graham
>
> You are the sage and have given years of great advice. Thanks.
>
> I had the inlet and outlet welds on the muffler redone. My CO monitor
> will be on always. As as a physician, I am most aware of the
> insidious problems with CO.
>
> I have flown for 50 years, all in air cooled engines and none with
> other kinds of heat.... I am still flying. (Oops, I don't where the
> heat from the redial engines came from, maybe from the oil coolers?)
>
> On the Jab, what are the alternatives? Lots of underwear?
> Electical? Gas burners with their own problems? I am happy with my
> setup.
>
>
>*
>*
>
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Message 16
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Hi all,
> I find it hard to believe that the Jab doesn't need an oil cooler and
> that's what I would be tempted to use. Otherwise go with an exhaust
> muffler and an electronic CO monitor,
Our kit manufacturer developped a double walled heat muff for the Jabiru
exhaust. The probability for cracks to develop in the two walls at the
same time is small.
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
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