---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/10/06: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 10:13 PM - Wiki... (Matt Dralle) 1. 03:31 AM - Re: Outrigger Pivot - Oh, sheesh! (nigel charles) 2. 03:31 AM - Re: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod (nigel charles) 3. 04:35 AM - Re: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod (Pete Jeffers) 4. 06:26 AM - finger brakes (danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk) 5. 06:48 AM - N625AZ (AlStills) 6. 08:07 AM - Re: Outrigger Pivot - Oh, sheesh! (Fred Klein) 7. 11:06 AM - connectors (Paul Stewart) 8. 01:19 PM - Re: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod (karelvranken) 9. 03:07 PM - Re: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod (steve v) 10. 04:14 PM - Re: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod (R.C.Harrison) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 10:13:10 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Wiki... Dear Listers, I added a new Wiki web site to the Matronics Email List features earlier this year. What's a Wiki, you ask? Well, here's the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki) definition: A wiki (IPA: [ w .ki ] or [ wi .ki ] ) is a type of Web site that allows the visitors themselves to easily add, remove, and otherwise edit and change some available content, sometimes without the need for registration. This ease of interaction and operation makes a wiki an effective tool for collaborative authoring. The term wiki also can refer to the collaborative software itself (wiki engine) that facilitates the operation of such a Web site, or to certain specific wiki sites, including the computer science site (an original wiki), WikiWikiWeb, and on-line encyclopedias such as Wikipedia. Under the Matronics Email List Moniker, there is now a very nice List-specific Wiki available! It a place for Listers to put articles about any aviation topic that suits them. The purpose is to provide what the mailing lists do not: structure and persistence. The mailing lists are a fantastic resource to ask a question and get good (and bad and funny and annoying) answers. But once the question is asked and answered it is not in front of the List anymore. If a new person subscribes the next day, he/she does not see that information unless he/she goes to the trouble to search the archives, a hit or miss proposition. The result is that the same thread of conversation gets created and/or revisited. There are several things that happen as a result: 1. The person gets his or her question answered; 2. The information gets better as more people think about and answer the question; 3. The people who have seen the same question asked and answered get annoyed at seeing the same things over and over and over and ... So this is where the Wiki comes in. You know what questions you wanted answered. You may have asked or answered the question. You know the information is useful. So you put the information here, in the Matronics Email List Wiki! It doesn't matter that this information is 100% complete or correct. Just writing something creates a placeholder and makes useful information available immediately. It has the same immediacy as the mailing list but it has persistence and structure. But what if the information is incomplete or incorrect? No problem! Anyone else coming along can edit the article! If I write something and you discover something I have left out or stated incorrectly, you can fix it right then! So let's begin and make this the place for information about building, flying, maintaining, and understanding our airplanes. But what about whether something is "appropriate" or not? Don't worry. Write it down. Let the reader determine whether or not it is appropriate. If it is, he/she will read it. If it isn't, he/she won't. It's as simple as that. And when you do write that article you won't have to worry about whether some editor is going to decide whether or not to print it in a newsletter or whether the webmaster will have time to put it up on the web page. The last question I hear brewing out there is: if anyone can post anything, won't this just become a mass of garbage? Surprisingly, the answer is a resounding no. If you want proof, go visit the Wikipedia, a free-to-everyone encyclopedia written by whoever wants to write articles. The articles there are as good as anything I have read anywhere and anyone can add anything anytime they want to. So don't hesitate. Write it down. Put it here. It will never hurt anyone. The more information we get here, the more useful it will become to other people and the more information they will put here for YOU to use. Here's the URL to start (there are lots more bured under this starting place): http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Matronics:Community_Portal But please don't forget that this Wiki and all of the other Matronics Email List features are supported solely by YOUR Contributions!! November is List Fund Raiser month and there are lots of Free Gifts to be had with your qualifying Contribution. Please make a Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great services!!! Thank you! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:32 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot - Oh, sheesh! Do whatever you think best. In Canada you do not have the same regulations as us so you are free to do what you want. However I would say from experience on local aircraft that it is worth updating so you (hopefully) never have to modify again. You still use the stainless tube which is the most difficult part to obtain and all the parts are cheap anyway. Regards Nigel -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle Sent: 09 November 2006 20:45 Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot - Oh, sheesh! Nigel......... You have shot me down. You may remember I copied your super mod, and in the process ordered the minimum lengths of tubing, etc. As am now doing the mod (just set in the Redux yesterday), I was going to offer the spares - I made up 8 kits of tubing and washers - to anyone who wants to do the mod. (In fact I made up many more and mailed them out to ten guys - no charge - as the parts are cheaper than the postage) and they have to find the common parts. Your latest missive probably negates the value of this exercise, but was going to contact you to do so. What do you think? Can I continue (not trying to compete) - but hate to waste the bits? Cheers, Ferg Kyle Europa A064 914 Classic ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:32 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod The loads are nowhere near as bad for the sticks as the outriggers and this is the first I have heard of wear in the stick pivots. Are you certain it is the pivots and not elsewhere in the flying control system? Is this in the pitch axis? Nigel -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R=E9mi Guerner Sent: 09 November 2006 18:23 Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod Hi Nigel, I am thinking at doing the same mod to the control stick pivots, as the play in those pivots is becoming unacceptable. What do you think of that? Any body has done it? Regards Remi Guerner F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 436 hours As the designer of this mod I have a few timely comments. First of all we are looking at updating this mod. The reason is that even using 4130 steel tube for the inner tubing it has a tendency to distort crating drag on the outer tube and causing the pivot to revert to the original arrangement. The future version will use an AN5 bolt instead of the AN4 bolt and inner tube. The bolt will be prevented from rotating by locating the head in a V shaped recess in a plate riveted on the outside of the side plate. An AN5 castellation nut will be used to retain the bolt. For UK builders the original prototype version of this ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:47 AM PST US From: "Pete Jeffers" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod Nigel, I have seen progressively more and more cases of wear in this area. None I have so far grounded for this reason, but a similar mod to the out rigger one will probably be useful some time in the future. Pete Jeffers _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel charles Sent: 10 November 2006 11:29 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod The loads are nowhere near as bad for the sticks as the outriggers and this is the first I have heard of wear in the stick pivots. Are you certain it is the pivots and not elsewhere in the flying control system? Is this in the pitch axis? Nigel -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R=E9mi Guerner Sent: 09 November 2006 18:23 Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod Hi Nigel, I am thinking at doing the same mod to the control stick pivots, as the play in those pivots is becoming unacceptable. What do you think of that? Any body has done it? Regards Remi Guerner F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 436 hours As the designer of this mod I have a few timely comments. First of all we are looking at updating this mod. The reason is that even using 4130 steel tube for the inner tubing it has a tendency to distort crating drag on the outer tube and causing the pivot to revert to the original arrangement. The future version will use an AN5 bolt instead of the AN4 bolt and inner tube. The bolt will be prevented from rotating by locating the head in a V shaped recess in a plate riveted on the outside of the side plate. An AN5 castellation nut will be used to retain the bolt. For UK builders the original prototype version of this -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the Contribution link below to find out more about this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by: * AeroElectric HYPERLINK "http://www.aeroelectric.com"www.aeroelectric.com * The Builder's Bookstore HYPERLINK "http://www.buildersbooks.com"www.buildersbooks.com * Aeroware Enterprises HYPERLINK "http://www.kitlog.com"www.kitlog.com * HomebuiltHELP HYPERLINK "http://www.homebuilthelp.com"www.homebuilthelp.com List Contribution Web Site --> Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - The Europa-List Email Forum - --> HYPERLINK "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/ Nav igator?Europa-List "http://www.aeroelectric.com"www.aeroelectric.com "http://www.buildersbooks.com"www.buildersbooks.com "http://www.kitlog.com"www.kitlog.com "http://www.homebuilthelp.com"www.homebuilthelp.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/ Nav igator?Europa-List 09/11/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. 09/11/2006 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:20 AM PST US From: "danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk" Subject: Europa-List: finger brakes Hi All, Just finishing the upholstery in Romeo India So it's time to redux the finger brake housing into the tunnel ( as per manual ). I have found the access though the tunnel to be extremely useful and was wondering if I could re enforce around the access and use anchor nuts so as to be able to remove the finger brake housing for maintenance etc. Has any one else done this ? does it need a Mod ? Cheers Danny ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:30 AM PST US From: "AlStills" Subject: Europa-List: N625AZ As of yesterday 11/9/06 N625AZ has an airworthiness certificate and is legal to fly. Now have to finalize the insurance and get into the air! Had to change propeller to a fixed pitch from the Airmaster to get CHT's in line for brake in of engine (Jabiru 3300) and will change back after braking in. Al Stills N625AZ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:28 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot - Oh, sheesh! From: Fred Klein Ferg, I'd love to have one of your kits if they are not spoken for...tried to email you direct but my email got kicked back to me as "undeliverable". Fred A194 On Thursday, November 9, 2006, at 12:44 PM, Fergus Kyle wrote: > > Nigel......... > You have shot me down. You may remember I copied your > super mod, > and in the process ordered the minimum lengths of tubing, etc. As am > now > doing the mod (just set in the Redux yesterday), I was going to offer > the > spares - I made up 8 kits of tubing and washers - to anyone who wants > to do > the mod. (In fact I made up many more and mailed them out to ten guys > - no > charge - as the parts are cheaper than the postage) and they have to > find > the common parts. > Your latest missive probably negates the value of this > exercise, > but was going to contact you to do so. What do you think? Can I > continue > (not trying to compete) - but hate to waste the bits? > Cheers, > > Ferg Kyle ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:06:36 AM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Europa-List: connectors Anyone in the UK know where you can get smallish quantities of AMP PIDG crimp connectors. The like of CPC sell in bags of 50 which for the larger sizes is more than I need and expensive. Regards Paul G-GIDY ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:19:50 PM PST US From: "karelvranken" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod Nigel, I can not talk of wear on the stick pivots since I have only 15 hours, but I was badly surprised by the play on the stick back- and forwards. So no play came from the ailerons. When holding the elevator neutral than you can hear a tack tack between your feet by moving the stick back and forwards. There are two pivots: one on the CSO2 and one through the stick and pushrod underneath. As well on starbord side. Until now I hadn't the time for more investigation. Perhaps is this a comparable problem with that of Remi Guerner? Isn't he talking about play rather than wear? Best regards, Karel Vranken # 447 monowheel F-PKRL Rotax 912ULS Airmaster AN332 with AC200. ----- Original Message ----- From: nigel charles To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 12:29 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod The loads are nowhere near as bad for the sticks as the outriggers and this is the first I have heard of wear in the stick pivots. Are you certain it is the pivots and not elsewhere in the flying control system? Is this in the pitch axis? Nigel -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R=E9mi Guerner Sent: 09 November 2006 18:23 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod Hi Nigel, I am thinking at doing the same mod to the control stick pivots, as the play in those pivots is becoming unacceptable. What do you think of that? Any body has done it? Regards Remi Guerner F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 436 hours As the designer of this mod I have a few timely comments. First of all we are looking at updating this mod. The reason is that even using 4130 steel tube for the inner tubing it has a tendency to distort crating drag on the outer tube and causing the pivot to revert to the original arrangement. The future version will use an AN5 bolt instead of the AN4 bolt and inner tube. The bolt will be prevented from rotating by locating the head in a V shaped recess in a plate riveted on the outside of the side plate. An AN5 castellation nut will be used to retain the bolt. For UK builders the original prototype version of this -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the Contribution link below to find out more about this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by: * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com * Aeroware Enterprises www.kitlog.com * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com List Contribution Web Site --> Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - The Europa-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:07:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod From: "steve v " Hi, i would be interested in any mod for the control stick pitch Clonking which from my investigation at the construction stage seemed to be at the phosfor bronze bearings for pitch at the stick base (on both sticks) zero hours with AC completed and at the weight and balance stage, thanks, steve vestuti #573 Trigear. Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:18 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod Hi! Karel Have you checked it isn=92t the stabilator drive bushes causing differential slop which you can feel down the stick? The bushes at the bottom of the stick were tufnol and factory produced. Some became tight on fixing of the cockpit module as indeed mine did and needed freeing off with =93brasso=94 so I=92d be very surprised if you have wear there? Could be a loose or collapsed connector? Needs identifying before flight. I have no clonks or likes anywhere in my control chain at 600 hours. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of karelvranken Sent: 10 November 2006 21:25 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod Nigel, I can not talk of wear on the stick pivots since I have only 15 hours, but I was badly surprised by the play on the stick back- and forwards. So no play came from the ailerons. When holding the elevator neutral than you can hear a tack tack between your feet by moving the stick back and forwards. There are two pivots: one on the CSO2 and one through the stick and pushrod underneath. As well on starbord side. Until now I hadn't the time for more investigation. Perhaps is this a comparable problem with that of Remi Guerner? Isn't he talking about play rather than wear? Best regards, Karel Vranken # 447 monowheel F-PKRL Rotax 912ULS Airmaster AN332 with AC200. ----- Original Message ----- From: nigel charles Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 12:29 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod The loads are nowhere near as bad for the sticks as the outriggers and this is the first I have heard of wear in the stick pivots. Are you certain it is the pivots and not elsewhere in the flying control system? Is this in the pitch axis? Nigel -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R=E9mi Guerner Sent: 09 November 2006 18:23 Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod Hi Nigel, I am thinking at doing the same mod to the control stick pivots, as the play in those pivots is becoming unacceptable. What do you think of that? Any body has done it? Regards Remi Guerner F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 436 hours As the designer of this mod I have a few timely comments. First of all we are looking at updating this mod. The reason is that even using 4130 steel tube for the inner tubing it has a tendency to distort crating drag on the outer tube and causing the pivot to revert to the original arrangement. The future version will use an AN5 bolt instead of the AN4 bolt and inner tube. The bolt will be prevented from rotating by locating the head in a V shaped recess in a plate riveted on the outside of the side plate. An AN5 castellation nut will be used to retain the bolt. For UK builders the original prototype version of this -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the Contribution link below to find out more about this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by: * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com * Aeroware Enterprises www.kitlog.com * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com List Contribution Web Site --> Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - The Europa-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron