Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:42 AM - Re: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod (nigel charles)
2. 01:00 PM - Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod (=?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Guerner?=)
3. 01:59 PM - UV Smooth Prime (Brad Shafer)
4. 02:13 PM - Balanced ailerons (Fergus Kyle)
5. 03:17 PM - Re: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod (karelvranken)
6. 03:21 PM - Re: Balanced ailerons (NevEyre@aol.com)
7. 03:22 PM - Re: Balanced ailerons (Tom Friedland)
8. 03:24 PM - Re: Balanced ailerons (Rman)
9. 07:07 PM - Re: Balanced ailerons (Ralph Hallett)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod |
This sounds a good idea. If someone wishes to replicate the outrigger
mod on the sticks, that is OK with me. It just needs agreeing with Andy
Draper. If written up appropriately it could become another standard
mod.
Nigel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
Jeffers
Sent: 10 November 2006 12:33
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod
Nigel,
I have seen progressively more and more cases of wear in this area.
None I have so far grounded for this reason, but a similar mod to the
out rigger one will probably be useful some time in the future.
Pete Jeffers
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel
charles
Sent: 10 November 2006 11:29
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod
The loads are nowhere near as bad for the sticks as the outriggers and
this is the first I have heard of wear in the stick pivots. Are you
certain it is the pivots and not elsewhere in the flying control system?
Is this in the pitch axis?
Nigel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R=E9mi
Guerner
Sent: 09 November 2006 18:23
Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod
Hi Nigel,
I am thinking at doing the same mod to the control stick pivots, as the
play in those pivots is becoming unacceptable.
What do you think of that? Any body has done it?
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 436 hours
As the designer of this mod I have a few timely comments.
First of all we are looking at updating this mod. The reason is that
even using 4130 steel tube for the inner tubing it has a tendency to
distort crating drag on the outer tube and causing the pivot to revert
to the original arrangement. The future version will use an AN5 bolt
instead of the AN4 bolt and inner tube. The bolt will be prevented from
rotating by locating the head in a V shaped recess in a plate riveted on
the outside of the side plate. An AN5 castellation nut will be used to
retain the bolt. For UK builders the original prototype version of this
-- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
(And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
the Contribution link below to find out more about
this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
by:
* AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
* The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
* Aeroware Enterprises www.kitlog.com
* HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
List Contribution Web Site
-->
Thank you for your generous support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
- The Europa-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
www.kitlog.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
www.aeroelectric.com
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod |
Nigel,
I am positive the play is in the stick pivots, mainly in roll but also in p
itch. Most Europas I know have the same problem. Some of them are almost
new =93 refer to Karel=99s comment.
Remi
The loads are nowhere near as bad for the sticks as the outriggers and
this
is the first I have heard of wear in the stick pivots. Are you certain
it is
the pivots and not elsewhere in the flying control system? Is this in
the
pitch axis?
Nigel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R=E9mi
Guerner
Sent: 09 November 2006 18:23
Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod
Hi Nigel,
I am thinking at doing the same mod to the control stick pivots, as the
play
in those pivots is becoming unacceptable.
What do you think of that? Any body has done it?
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 436 hours
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Simple question. Should UV Smooth Prime be used on all surfaces including
the surfaces that have a white coating (gel coat?) from the factory? Or
just the "raw" fiberglass (blue) surfaces?
Brad
<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"
xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"
xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html;
charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=ProgId content=Word.Document>
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11">
<meta name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 11">
<link rel=File-List href="cid:filelist.xml@01C705AA.29534250">
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
<o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/>
</o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<w:WordDocument>
<w:SpellingState>Clean</w:SpellingState>
<w:GrammarState>Clean</w:GrammarState>
<w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind>
<w:EnvelopeVis/>
<w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/>
<w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>
<w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent>
<w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>
<w:Compatibility>
<w:UseFELayout/>
</w:Compatibility>
<w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel>
</w:WordDocument>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156">
</w:LatentStyles>
</xml><![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"MS Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;
mso-font-alt:"\201Al\201Ar \2013¾\2019©";
mso-font-charset:128;
mso-generic-font-family:modern;
mso-font-pitch:fixed;
mso-font-signature:-1610612033 1757936891 16 0 131231 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@MS Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;
mso-font-charset:128;
mso-generic-font-family:modern;
mso-font-pitch:fixed;
mso-font-signature:-1610612033 1757936891 16 0 131231 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
p.MsoAutoSig, li.MsoAutoSig, div.MsoAutoSig
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"MS Mincho";}
pre
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.Important
{mso-style-name:"Important\!";
color:red;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
font-family:Arial;
mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;
mso-hansi-font-family:Arial;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
font-family:Arial;
mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;
mso-hansi-font-family:Arial;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;
mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;
mso-hansi-font-family:Arial;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;
mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;
mso-hansi-font-family:Arial;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
span.GramE
{mso-style-name:"";
mso-gram-e:yes;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;
mso-header-margin:35.4pt;
mso-footer-margin:35.4pt;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 10]>
<style>
/* Style Definitions */
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin:0in;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-ansi-language:#0400;
mso-fareast-language:#0400;
mso-bidi-language:#0400;}
</style>
<![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
<o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/>
</o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
</xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue
style='tab-interval:.5in'>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=GramE><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Simple
question.</span></font></span><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span><span
class=GramE>Should UV
Smooth Prime be used on all surfaces including the surfaces that have a
white
coating (gel coat?) from the factory?</span> <span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span><span class=GramE>Or just the
“raw”
fiberglass (blue) surfaces?</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Brad<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Balanced ailerons |
Cheers........
I balanced the ailerons by guessing at the added weight of two
layers of colour, and when the Family Painter finished with them, they now
hang off the hinges about 20deg off the horizontal, trailing edge up. That
means to me that the finish is lighter than expected. Since both are the
same, I conclude that balanced or not, I'm "pretty close".
My understanding (meagre as it is) of flutter leads me to
believe that balanced or not they oppose one another - so - What is the harm
in leaving them slightly lighter than the weights?
I would be interested in some discourse on the topic. Remember
I'm a flier, not a builder, so not too many 'sigmas' or 'mu to the one point
three power'. The fact is the finish is superb and I am loath to start
drilling into these creatures just to be mathematically perfect.
Have at me.
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod |
Hi Bob,
Did you read the mail of Steve Vestuti? The clonking sit not in the
tail. That's another story of pro and contra taper pins. There I found a
little play on starboard side. Not enough to postpone my first flight.
The winter is long and will bring solutions for every problem. And see,
I know of your particular solution. Maybe after consulting the forum the
verdict will be easy....or not?
Karel Vranken.
----- Original Message -----
From: R.C.Harrison
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 1:11 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod
Hi! Karel
Have you checked it isn't the stabilator drive bushes causing
differential slop which you can feel down the stick?
The bushes at the bottom of the stick were tufnol and factory
produced. Some became tight on fixing of the cockpit module as indeed
mine did and needed freeing off with "brasso" so I'd be very surprised
if you have wear there? Could be a loose or collapsed connector? Needs
identifying before flight.
I have no clonks or likes anywhere in my control chain at 600 hours.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Balanced ailerons |
Hi Ferg,
The fact that the ailerons are connected [ via rigid pushrods] will have no
effect if one of them decides to flutter, it will thrash the pushrods for the
few nano seconds it is still attached to the wing, and departs........
The ideal situation is for them to be 100 percent balanced, ie the CHORD
line of the aileron is level, underbalanced [ hanging down at the trailing edge]
is an absolute No No, overbalanced is OK, but not the amount you have
described.Book Read Engineers will be able to tell you the flutter speeds [250
plus
kts...] just do it as per the manual, the flight test program [ Pete Clark]
took it way past what was needed.
It really is an easy job drilling out the exess lead, use a sharp drill at
very slow speed, and if you can , clamp a piece of 1/8'' ply to the face [
inboard is best, less visible] and drill through the ply into the arm. Keep the
ply clamped tightly,[ protect the other face with a similar piece of ply to
protect the paint] don't let the drill bit ''grab''.Start with about 3/16'',
work up in stages to 1/2'.
Chances are you will need two 1/2'' holes drilled nearly through both arms
to get close, if you do not break out the other end, all that is needed is a
plug of blue foam 5 minuted in, a smear of Expancell, and a lick of paint to
refinnish the inboard face.
Best way I have found for drilling, is to fold a towel up , place it on the
floor and stand the outboard tip of the aileron on the towel, and drill down
into the inboard face of the arms, tape a plastic bag around the arm so most
of the swarfe gets caught, rather than getting inbedded in the towel / tip.
Cheers,
Nev.
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Balanced ailerons |
Hi Ferg
I think that you are probably correct in that they must be pretty close to
balance and since they both deviate the same way flutter should cancel out.
Still it might always deep inside "bug you." It would be easy to drill a
small amount until they were perfect and the holes would be easy to fill and
if they were on the upper surface no one would know.
Just think how much lighter the bird would be!
Tom Friedland (Now back in the NorthWest)
On 11/11/06, Fergus Kyle <VE3LVO@rac.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Cheers........
> I balanced the ailerons by guessing at the added weight of two
> layers of colour, and when the Family Painter finished with them, they now
> hang off the hinges about 20deg off the horizontal, trailing edge up. That
> means to me that the finish is lighter than expected. Since both are the
> same, I conclude that balanced or not, I'm "pretty close".
> My understanding (meagre as it is) of flutter leads me to
> believe that balanced or not they oppose one another - so - What is the
> harm
> in leaving them slightly lighter than the weights?
> I would be interested in some discourse on the topic. Remember
> I'm a flier, not a builder, so not too many 'sigmas' or 'mu to the one
> point
> three power'. The fact is the finish is superb and I am loath to start
> drilling into these creatures just to be mathematically perfect.
> Have at me.
> Ferg Kyle
> Europa A064 914 Classic
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Balanced ailerons |
Ferg,
Drill out a little more lead from the counter weights and make them
Europa perfect... ;)
Jeff - Baby Blue
241 hours
Fergus Kyle wrote:
>
>Cheers........
> I balanced the ailerons by guessing at the added weight of two
>layers of colour, and when the Family Painter finished with them, they now
>hang off the hinges about 20deg off the horizontal, trailing edge up. That
>means to me that the finish is lighter than expected. Since both are the
>same, I conclude that balanced or not, I'm "pretty close".
> My understanding (meagre as it is) of flutter leads me to
>believe that balanced or not they oppose one another - so - What is the harm
>in leaving them slightly lighter than the weights?
> I would be interested in some discourse on the topic. Remember
>I'm a flier, not a builder, so not too many 'sigmas' or 'mu to the one point
>three power'. The fact is the finish is superb and I am loath to start
>drilling into these creatures just to be mathematically perfect.
> Have at me.
>Ferg Kyle
>Europa A064 914 Classic
>
>
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Balanced ailerons |
Nev,
Thanks again for the great input! Could use you in the garage on a
regular basis. :)
Ralph
NevEyre@aol.com wrote:
> Hi Ferg,
> The fact that the ailerons are connected [ via rigid pushrods] will
> have no effect if one of them decides to flutter, it will thrash the
> pushrods for the few nano seconds it is still attached to the wing,
> and departs........
> The ideal situation is for them to be 100 percent balanced, ie the
> CHORD line of the aileron is level, underbalanced [ hanging down at
> the trailing edge] is an absolute No No, overbalanced is OK, but not
> the amount you have described.Book Read Engineers will be able to tell
> you the flutter speeds [250 plus kts...] just do it as per the manual,
> the flight test program [ Pete Clark] took it way past what was needed.
> It really is an easy job drilling out the exess lead, use a sharp
> drill at very slow speed, and if you can , clamp a piece of 1/8'' ply
> to the face [ inboard is best, less visible] and drill through the ply
> into the arm. Keep the ply clamped tightly,[ protect the other face
> with a similar piece of ply to protect the paint] don't let the drill
> bit ''grab''.Start with about 3/16'', work up in stages to 1/2'.
> Chances are you will need two 1/2'' holes drilled nearly through both
> arms to get close, if you do not break out the other end, all that is
> needed is a plug of blue foam 5 minuted in, a smear of Expancell, and
> a lick of paint to refinnish the inboard face.
> Best way I have found for drilling, is to fold a towel up , place it
> on the floor and stand the outboard tip of the aileron on the towel,
> and drill down into the inboard face of the arms, tape a plastic bag
> around the arm so most of the swarfe gets caught, rather than getting
> inbedded in the towel / tip.
> Cheers,
> Nev.
> *
>
>
> *
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|