---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 11/11/06: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:42 AM - Re: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod (nigel charles) 2. 01:00 PM - Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod (=?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Guerner?=) 3. 01:59 PM - UV Smooth Prime (Brad Shafer) 4. 02:13 PM - Balanced ailerons (Fergus Kyle) 5. 03:17 PM - Re: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod (karelvranken) 6. 03:21 PM - Re: Balanced ailerons (NevEyre@aol.com) 7. 03:22 PM - Re: Balanced ailerons (Tom Friedland) 8. 03:24 PM - Re: Balanced ailerons (Rman) 9. 07:07 PM - Re: Balanced ailerons (Ralph Hallett) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:45 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod This sounds a good idea. If someone wishes to replicate the outrigger mod on the sticks, that is OK with me. It just needs agreeing with Andy Draper. If written up appropriately it could become another standard mod. Nigel -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Jeffers Sent: 10 November 2006 12:33 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod Nigel, I have seen progressively more and more cases of wear in this area. None I have so far grounded for this reason, but a similar mod to the out rigger one will probably be useful some time in the future. Pete Jeffers _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel charles Sent: 10 November 2006 11:29 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod The loads are nowhere near as bad for the sticks as the outriggers and this is the first I have heard of wear in the stick pivots. Are you certain it is the pivots and not elsewhere in the flying control system? Is this in the pitch axis? Nigel -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R=E9mi Guerner Sent: 09 November 2006 18:23 Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod Hi Nigel, I am thinking at doing the same mod to the control stick pivots, as the play in those pivots is becoming unacceptable. What do you think of that? Any body has done it? Regards Remi Guerner F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 436 hours As the designer of this mod I have a few timely comments. First of all we are looking at updating this mod. The reason is that even using 4130 steel tube for the inner tubing it has a tendency to distort crating drag on the outer tube and causing the pivot to revert to the original arrangement. The future version will use an AN5 bolt instead of the AN4 bolt and inner tube. The bolt will be prevented from rotating by locating the head in a V shaped recess in a plate riveted on the outside of the side plate. An AN5 castellation nut will be used to retain the bolt. For UK builders the original prototype version of this -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the Contribution link below to find out more about this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by: * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com * Aeroware Enterprises www.kitlog.com * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com List Contribution Web Site --> Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - The Europa-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.kitlog.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:00:56 PM PST US From: =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Guerner?= Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod Nigel, I am positive the play is in the stick pivots, mainly in roll but also in p itch. Most Europas I know have the same problem. Some of them are almost new =93 refer to Karel=99s comment. Remi The loads are nowhere near as bad for the sticks as the outriggers and this is the first I have heard of wear in the stick pivots. Are you certain it is the pivots and not elsewhere in the flying control system? Is this in the pitch axis? Nigel -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R=E9mi Guerner Sent: 09 November 2006 18:23 Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod Hi Nigel, I am thinking at doing the same mod to the control stick pivots, as the play in those pivots is becoming unacceptable. What do you think of that? Any body has done it? Regards Remi Guerner F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 436 hours ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:59:34 PM PST US From: Brad Shafer Subject: Europa-List: UV Smooth Prime Simple question. Should UV Smooth Prime be used on all surfaces including the surfaces that have a white coating (gel coat?) from the factory? Or just the "raw" fiberglass (blue) surfaces? Brad

 

Simple question.  Should UV Smooth Prime be used on all surfaces including the surfaces that have a white coating (gel coat?) from the factory?  Or just the “raw” fiberglass (blue) surfaces?

Brad

 
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:47 PM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: Balanced ailerons Cheers........ I balanced the ailerons by guessing at the added weight of two layers of colour, and when the Family Painter finished with them, they now hang off the hinges about 20deg off the horizontal, trailing edge up. That means to me that the finish is lighter than expected. Since both are the same, I conclude that balanced or not, I'm "pretty close". My understanding (meagre as it is) of flutter leads me to believe that balanced or not they oppose one another - so - What is the harm in leaving them slightly lighter than the weights? I would be interested in some discourse on the topic. Remember I'm a flier, not a builder, so not too many 'sigmas' or 'mu to the one point three power'. The fact is the finish is superb and I am loath to start drilling into these creatures just to be mathematically perfect. Have at me. Ferg Kyle Europa A064 914 Classic ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:17:15 PM PST US From: "karelvranken" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod Hi Bob, Did you read the mail of Steve Vestuti? The clonking sit not in the tail. That's another story of pro and contra taper pins. There I found a little play on starboard side. Not enough to postpone my first flight. The winter is long and will bring solutions for every problem. And see, I know of your particular solution. Maybe after consulting the forum the verdict will be easy....or not? Karel Vranken. ----- Original Message ----- From: R.C.Harrison To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 1:11 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod Hi! Karel Have you checked it isn't the stabilator drive bushes causing differential slop which you can feel down the stick? The bushes at the bottom of the stick were tufnol and factory produced. Some became tight on fixing of the cockpit module as indeed mine did and needed freeing off with "brasso" so I'd be very surprised if you have wear there? Could be a loose or collapsed connector? Needs identifying before flight. I have no clonks or likes anywhere in my control chain at 600 hours. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:21:44 PM PST US From: NevEyre@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Balanced ailerons Hi Ferg, The fact that the ailerons are connected [ via rigid pushrods] will have no effect if one of them decides to flutter, it will thrash the pushrods for the few nano seconds it is still attached to the wing, and departs........ The ideal situation is for them to be 100 percent balanced, ie the CHORD line of the aileron is level, underbalanced [ hanging down at the trailing edge] is an absolute No No, overbalanced is OK, but not the amount you have described.Book Read Engineers will be able to tell you the flutter speeds [250 plus kts...] just do it as per the manual, the flight test program [ Pete Clark] took it way past what was needed. It really is an easy job drilling out the exess lead, use a sharp drill at very slow speed, and if you can , clamp a piece of 1/8'' ply to the face [ inboard is best, less visible] and drill through the ply into the arm. Keep the ply clamped tightly,[ protect the other face with a similar piece of ply to protect the paint] don't let the drill bit ''grab''.Start with about 3/16'', work up in stages to 1/2'. Chances are you will need two 1/2'' holes drilled nearly through both arms to get close, if you do not break out the other end, all that is needed is a plug of blue foam 5 minuted in, a smear of Expancell, and a lick of paint to refinnish the inboard face. Best way I have found for drilling, is to fold a towel up , place it on the floor and stand the outboard tip of the aileron on the towel, and drill down into the inboard face of the arms, tape a plastic bag around the arm so most of the swarfe gets caught, rather than getting inbedded in the towel / tip. Cheers, Nev. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:22:02 PM PST US From: "Tom Friedland" <96victor@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Balanced ailerons Hi Ferg I think that you are probably correct in that they must be pretty close to balance and since they both deviate the same way flutter should cancel out. Still it might always deep inside "bug you." It would be easy to drill a small amount until they were perfect and the holes would be easy to fill and if they were on the upper surface no one would know. Just think how much lighter the bird would be! Tom Friedland (Now back in the NorthWest) On 11/11/06, Fergus Kyle wrote: > > > Cheers........ > I balanced the ailerons by guessing at the added weight of two > layers of colour, and when the Family Painter finished with them, they now > hang off the hinges about 20deg off the horizontal, trailing edge up. That > means to me that the finish is lighter than expected. Since both are the > same, I conclude that balanced or not, I'm "pretty close". > My understanding (meagre as it is) of flutter leads me to > believe that balanced or not they oppose one another - so - What is the > harm > in leaving them slightly lighter than the weights? > I would be interested in some discourse on the topic. Remember > I'm a flier, not a builder, so not too many 'sigmas' or 'mu to the one > point > three power'. The fact is the finish is superb and I am loath to start > drilling into these creatures just to be mathematically perfect. > Have at me. > Ferg Kyle > Europa A064 914 Classic > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:24:50 PM PST US From: Rman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Balanced ailerons Ferg, Drill out a little more lead from the counter weights and make them Europa perfect... ;) Jeff - Baby Blue 241 hours Fergus Kyle wrote: > >Cheers........ > I balanced the ailerons by guessing at the added weight of two >layers of colour, and when the Family Painter finished with them, they now >hang off the hinges about 20deg off the horizontal, trailing edge up. That >means to me that the finish is lighter than expected. Since both are the >same, I conclude that balanced or not, I'm "pretty close". > My understanding (meagre as it is) of flutter leads me to >believe that balanced or not they oppose one another - so - What is the harm >in leaving them slightly lighter than the weights? > I would be interested in some discourse on the topic. Remember >I'm a flier, not a builder, so not too many 'sigmas' or 'mu to the one point >three power'. The fact is the finish is superb and I am loath to start >drilling into these creatures just to be mathematically perfect. > Have at me. >Ferg Kyle >Europa A064 914 Classic > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:49 PM PST US From: Ralph Hallett Subject: Re: Europa-List: Balanced ailerons Nev, Thanks again for the great input! Could use you in the garage on a regular basis. :) Ralph NevEyre@aol.com wrote: > Hi Ferg, > The fact that the ailerons are connected [ via rigid pushrods] will > have no effect if one of them decides to flutter, it will thrash the > pushrods for the few nano seconds it is still attached to the wing, > and departs........ > The ideal situation is for them to be 100 percent balanced, ie the > CHORD line of the aileron is level, underbalanced [ hanging down at > the trailing edge] is an absolute No No, overbalanced is OK, but not > the amount you have described.Book Read Engineers will be able to tell > you the flutter speeds [250 plus kts...] just do it as per the manual, > the flight test program [ Pete Clark] took it way past what was needed. > It really is an easy job drilling out the exess lead, use a sharp > drill at very slow speed, and if you can , clamp a piece of 1/8'' ply > to the face [ inboard is best, less visible] and drill through the ply > into the arm. Keep the ply clamped tightly,[ protect the other face > with a similar piece of ply to protect the paint] don't let the drill > bit ''grab''.Start with about 3/16'', work up in stages to 1/2'. > Chances are you will need two 1/2'' holes drilled nearly through both > arms to get close, if you do not break out the other end, all that is > needed is a plug of blue foam 5 minuted in, a smear of Expancell, and > a lick of paint to refinnish the inboard face. > Best way I have found for drilling, is to fold a towel up , place it > on the floor and stand the outboard tip of the aileron on the towel, > and drill down into the inboard face of the arms, tape a plastic bag > around the arm so most of the swarfe gets caught, rather than getting > inbedded in the towel / tip. > Cheers, > Nev. > * > > > *