Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:46 AM - Re: Circuit Diagram - Issue 4 (Simon Smith)
2. 03:26 AM - Re: Circuit Diagram - Issue 4 (Mike Gregory)
3. 11:35 AM - Oil cooler thermostat (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
4. 12:50 PM - Re: Oil cooler thermostat (Gilles Thesee)
5. 02:29 PM - Re: Oil cooler thermostat (Karl Heindl)
6. 02:51 PM - Re: Oil cooler thermostat (Gilles Thesee)
7. 03:31 PM - More help from our American friends (Alan Burrows)
8. 03:33 PM - Re: Oil cooler thermostat (karelvranken)
9. 04:06 PM - Re: Oil cooler thermostat (Graham Singleton)
10. 04:08 PM - Re: More help from our American friends (Steve Crimm)
11. 04:43 PM - Re: Oil cooler thermostat (Graham Singleton)
12. 06:10 PM - Re: More help from our American friends (Michael Grass)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Circuit Diagram - Issue 4 |
Hi,
I have an "Issue $" in front of me and it appears to be identical to the
current "Issue 1" on the factory website.
I suspect that when they went from separate Mono and Tri manuals to a
combined it got renumbered.
Simon
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Moore
Sent: 13 November 2006 23:33
Subject: Europa-List: Circuit Diagram - Issue 4
Hi,
Back in July, on this forum, Mike Gregory mentioned an Issue 4 of the wiring
circuit diagram.
How / where can I get hold of a copy.?
Both the Factory and Club websites' pdf build manuals show Issue 1 circuit
diagrams. (As does my 2003 build manual).
With thanks,
Dave Moore
Monowheel #550
Aberdeen, UK.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Circuit Diagram - Issue 4 |
Don't worry: I was referring to Issue 4 of the circuit diagram as published
in the XS builders' manual page 25-11 in the year 2000. This same diagram
now appears in the current builders' manual and is marked Issue 1. The
original Issue 1 from 1996 had covered the Rotax 912 only, and issues 2 and
3 appeared in the Europa Aircraft News in 1999 to cover the Rotax 914 with
its need for a second electric fuel pump. Issue 4 was then provided as the
definitive circuit recommendation and has remained unchanged, although the
page on which it is printed was Issue 1 of the combined manual.
I apologise for any confusion caused by my referring to Issue 4, but some
people may still be flying Europas that incorporate circuits from the
earlier issues. Please remember that the diagram as currently presented is
only a recommended basic circuit, and people should feel free to modify it
to incorporate other features in accordance with good aircraft electrical
engineering practice. However, quite a lot of thought has gone into its
design, and the fact that it has been unchanged for six years suggests that
the principles adopted were sound.
Mike
Europa Club Safety Officer
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Moore
Sent: 13 November 2006 23:33
Subject: Europa-List: Circuit Diagram - Issue 4
Hi,
Back in July, on this forum, Mike Gregory mentioned an Issue 4 of the wiring
circuit diagram.
How / where can I get hold of a copy.?
Both the Factory and Club websites' pdf build manuals show Issue 1 circuit
diagrams. (As does my 2003 build manual).
With thanks,
Dave Moore
Monowheel #550
Aberdeen, UK.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Oil cooler thermostat |
Thank you very much to all who responded to my questions regarding oil
cooler thermostat. What is noticeable, however, is that it appears that
few have actually installed a thermostat.
I favour a thermostat from the point of "automatic" operation, but
realize that "anything that can go wrong will go wrong". Has anyone
checked their favoured thermostat make with manufacturer/supplier
regarding reliability?
>From that perspective baffles/part-covers in front of the coolers would
be better, especially if I could make them in-flight adjustable (which I
can if I wish).
The issue is how best to arrange it. With +2- +5 degr C OAT, I barely
hit 95 C oil temp on top of climb from 360 to 2500 ft and only 65-70 C
in level cruise. Cyl head temp reaches 105 C dropping to 80-90 C. This
is with all of the 2 inch of oil cooler below water cooler shielded by
alu plate and 50% of water cooler with rest of oil cooler behind also
covered. The rest of the cooler area I would really like to keep open
due to the cabin heat warm air collector behind. Will only get lower
temps as the winter approaches, of course. Both oil temp and CHT gauges
checked for correct readings. Hmmmm - - - -.
Best regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler thermostat |
Svein and all,
>
> From that perspective baffles/part-covers in front of the coolers
> would be better, especially if I could make them in-flight adjustable
> (which I can if I wish).
> The issue is how best to arrange it.
It is best to place a flap at the exit of the cowl/radiator duct.
Placing an obstruction in the front destroys dynamic pressure. An we
need to recover as much pressure as we can to persuade the air to flow
across the rad core.
A carefully designed diffuser is key.
Having a large hole with partly covered radiators inside, is like having
a deployed air-brake.
And we don't need a permanent air-brake, do we ?
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler thermostat |
Why has the Europa such a huge duct and all those other openings ? I see
pictures of many other 9xx powered aircraft with just one or two small
openings (i.e. CT). What I would like is a variable opening at the bottom
of the cowl with a louvred door. Open it wide when climbing, scooping in
masses of air when drag is not an issue, and close it in the cruise.
Karl
>From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil cooler thermostat
>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:48:48 +0100
>
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>Svein and all,
>
>> From that perspective baffles/part-covers in front of the coolers would
>>be better, especially if I could make them in-flight adjustable (which I
>>can if I wish). The issue is how best to arrange it.
>
>It is best to place a flap at the exit of the cowl/radiator duct.
>Placing an obstruction in the front destroys dynamic pressure. An we need
>to recover as much pressure as we can to persuade the air to flow across
>the rad core.
>A carefully designed diffuser is key.
>Having a large hole with partly covered radiators inside, is like having a
>deployed air-brake.
>
>And we don't need a permanent air-brake, do we ?
>
>Regards,
>Gilles Thesee
>Grenoble, France
>http://contrails.free.fr
>
>
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler thermostat |
Karl,
>
> Why has the Europa such a huge duct and all those other openings ?
Maybe they are in need of some improvement in this area ?
Since Europas can be as fast as our airplane, there is no reason why
they should have larger ducts with the same engine.
> I see pictures of many other 9xx powered aircraft with just one or two
> small openings (i.e. CT). What I would like is a variable opening at
> the bottom of the cowl with a louvred door. Open it wide when
> climbing, scooping in masses of air when drag is not an issue, and
> close it in the cruise.
That's the way a proper cooling setup is engineered. Be careful not to
open wider than necessary : you only add drag, think of the LongEZ
ventral flap.
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 7
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| Subject: | More help from our American friends |
Hi All
Firstly many thanks for all the help and assistance in getting my
aircraft
over to the U.S. its now on its way and hopefully it wont be too
difficult
to get it onto the N register. What I now need to know is should I
register
it as an aircraft or a motorglider as I have both sets of wings. Any
idea=92s
would be welcomed.
Many Thanks
Alan
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
13/11/2006
20:56
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler thermostat |
Gilles,
We are going to the point. You are wright and Karel and Karl are searching
for the same solution. I have in mind a cowl flap moved by an adjustable
Bowden cable. Still a small technical problem when moving the cowling.
Something for long winter evenings.
Regards,
Karel Vranken.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:53 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil cooler thermostat
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler thermostat |
Right again,Gilles :-)
The area of intake required to cool an O-360 Lycoming on a Long EZ is
about 14 square inches, but only if everything inside the cowling is
optimised, baffling, pressure recovery ducts etc.There are several EZs
with inlets this small. Most of them use exhaust extraction to help
cooling on the ground.
Graham
Gilles Thesee wrote:
> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Svein and all,
>
>>
>> From that perspective baffles/part-covers in front of the coolers
>> would be better, especially if I could make them in-flight adjustable
>> (which I can if I wish). The issue is how best to arrange it.
>
>
> It is best to place a flap at the exit of the cowl/radiator duct.
> Placing an obstruction in the front destroys dynamic pressure. An we
> need to recover as much pressure as we can to persuade the air to flow
> across the rad core.
> A carefully designed diffuser is key.
> Having a large hole with partly covered radiators inside, is like
> having a deployed air-brake.
>
> And we don't need a permanent air-brake, do we ?
>
> Regards,
> Gilles Thesee
> Grenoble, France
> http://contrails.free.fr
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | More help from our American friends |
Alan
If you register it as a motor glider then you won't have to worry about ever
having to say "Lost medical must sell" since a medical is not required to
fly a glider.
Steve Crimm
N42AH
Licensed as a motor glider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Burrows
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 18:29
Subject: Europa-List: More help from our American friends
Hi All
Firstly many thanks for all the help and assistance in getting my aircraft
over to the U.S. its now on its way and hopefully it wont be too difficult
to get it onto the N register. What I now need to know is should I register
it as an aircraft or a motorglider as I have both sets of wings. Any idea's
would be welcomed.
Many Thanks
Alan
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
13/11/2006 20:56
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler thermostat |
Karl
A big hole doesn't let in any more air than a small one when the air
can't get out easily. One or two Europas have small inlets and AFAIK
they cool just as well
graham
Karl Heindl wrote:
> - What I would like is a variable opening at the bottom of the cowl
> with a louvred door. Open it wide when climbing, scooping in masses of
> air when drag is not an issue, and close it in the cruise.
>
> Karl
>
>
>> From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil cooler thermostat
>> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:48:48 +0100
>>
>> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>>
>> Svein and all,
>>
>>> From that perspective baffles/part-covers in front of the coolers
>>> would be better, especially if I could make them in-flight
>>> adjustable (which I can if I wish). The issue is how best to arrange
>>> it.
>>
>>
>> It is best to place a flap at the exit of the cowl/radiator duct.
>> Placing an obstruction in the front destroys dynamic pressure. An we
>> need to recover as much pressure as we can to persuade the air to
>> flow across the rad core.
>> A carefully designed diffuser is key.
>> Having a large hole with partly covered radiators inside, is like
>> having a deployed air-brake.
>>
>> And we don't need a permanent air-brake, do we ?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Gilles Thesee
>> Grenoble, France
>> http://contrails.free.fr
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: More help from our American friends |
Alan,
you should get in touch with Jim and Heather Butcher about this issue.
As far as I remember, they researched this and found out that this is a
play of words. Meaning, if properly worded, the active registration is
depending of the wings you have on at the time when you fly the Europa.
With short wings it is a airplane and with long wings it will be
officially a glider. Jim and Heather can be directly reached at
europa@triton.net
Regards
Michael Grass
A266 Trigear
Detroit
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Burrows
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 6:29 PM
Subject: Europa-List: More help from our American friends
Hi All
Firstly many thanks for all the help and assistance in getting my
aircraft over to the U.S. its now on its way and hopefully it wont be
too difficult to get it onto the N register. What I now need to know is
should I register it as an aircraft or a motorglider as I have both sets
of wings. Any idea=92s would be welcomed.
Many Thanks
Alan
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
13/11/2006 20:56
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