---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 11/18/06: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:45 AM - Re: FW: Was Re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gills slots in top cowl" (William Mills) 2. 02:14 AM - Re: FW: Was Re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gills slots in top cowl" (R.C.Harrison) 3. 11:05 AM - tailplane twist (William Daniell) 4. 02:04 PM - Re: tailplane twist (Graham Singleton) 5. 03:00 PM - Re: tailplane twist (Carl Pattinson) 6. 03:33 PM - Re: tailplane twist (William Daniell) 7. 03:51 PM - Re: tailplane twist (Tim Ward) 8. 04:04 PM - Re: LOC (Karl Heindl) 9. 04:38 PM - Re: LOC (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:45:59 AM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: FW: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gills slots in top cowl" Terry, Have you got the 912S shroud fitted to your engine, which takes cold air from behind the prop and forces it down through the cylinder fins? Assuming you have, does your ali baffle across the foot wells still aid general under cowl cooling? All, If the gills are blanked off, has anyone found an alternative location for the regulator to keep it in cool air? Regards, William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 5:36 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: FW: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gills slots in top cowl" > > > Hi Bob, > > In case you don't already have this link, here is the location of our > write-up for the cowl cooling mods, etc. Just look at the 'engine > compartment cooling' section. > > http://terryseaver.home.comcast.net/N135TD_mods.htm > > It has been commented that not all aircraft are alike in their cooling > issues, which I'm sure is quite true. The 912S installation acts > differently from the 914, and the mono-wheel quite different from the > tri-gear. Never-the-less, I believe the cowl mods we made might be > useful for all installations using the factory XS cowl, in that our mod > forces cooling air to pass, top-to-bottom, around the cylinders and out > the rear. Without the baffle behind the engine (and the louvers closed > off), cooling air just passes behind the engine instead. Remember, the > Rotax has liquid cooled heads, BUT air cooled cylinders, which implies > to me the need for baffling under the cowl similar to that done on > air-cooled LyCo-saurs. > > Regards, > Terry > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > R.C.Harrison > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 4:43 PM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: FW: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit > for purpose Gills slots in top cowl" > > --> > > Hi! All Europa Forum > Below is a message sequence I published thanking Terry Seaver for his > contribution of information. Seemingly it has been blocked by some > "Baracuda Spam Firewall Protection system of the Matronics Site . > Please give it access. > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > > -----Original Message----- > From: R.C.Harrison [mailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk] > Sent: 16 November 2006 22:23 > To: 'europa-list@matronics.com' > Subject: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gills > slots in top cowl" > > Hi! Terry > Thanks for the message below, it is invaluable at my stage of re-build > and I was suspicious of the facts having had no gills on my Jabiru > arrangement. > I will be making reference about your results should I need a mod. > application if you don't mind. > Regards and "thanks a million"! > Bob Harrison G-PTAG preparing for a 914 Rotax.c/w intercooler! > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:14:47 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: FW: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gills slots in top cowl" Hi! William/all I guess my Jabiru regulator may be of differing construction but does look the same as the Rotax one . Mine sits on posts to allow all round cooling, about 1/2" above the flat P1 Footwell with no gills and never gave any trouble. We were only advised to pipe cool air directly aimed at the ignition coils which I did with the convoluted hoses off a washing machine the intake end fixed just behind the spinner. I believe the theory to be ...... if the hot air can't exit at the gills then there is no flow in that direction to take the heat there, and so cause the harm. Even the position of the gills doesn't really encourage convection when on shutdown since they are not at the top cowl high point for convection. Andy Draper advised that they chose the position of the gills purely as the best place to accommodate the ingress of rain water when parked up! IMHO parking into wind with the access flaps open for 20 minutes is always the answer, but I admit I never really gave it a lot of consideration nor did I open the access doors! Also IMHO a couple of suitably placed soldering mats above the muffler is really the key to dissipate the convection of heat sufficiently long to prevent it being a problem. However I do think that Terry's blank off plate between the foot wells would be constructive except if it could be extended down through the engine mounts to below the alternator and ignition equipment it would do an even better job. I intend arranging my intercooler waste air to be directed across the whole of the rear of the engine.......when the motor is running ! The high pressure radiator and oil cooler air needs to be entirely ducted out of the engine bay rearwards to stop it spoiling the downwards flow of the general cooling air.( except when you take off the warm air to cabin heat.(ALL IMHO OF COURSE) Regards Bob Harrison. Robt.C.Harrison -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Mills Sent: 18 November 2006 08:45 Subject: Re: Europa-List: FW: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gills slots in top cowl" Terry, Have you got the 912S shroud fitted to your engine, which takes cold air from behind the prop and forces it down through the cylinder fins? Assuming you have, does your ali baffle across the foot wells still aid general under cowl cooling? All, If the gills are blanked off, has anyone found an alternative location for the regulator to keep it in cool air? Regards, William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 5:36 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: FW: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gills slots in top cowl" > > > Hi Bob, > > In case you don't already have this link, here is the location of our > write-up for the cowl cooling mods, etc. Just look at the 'engine > compartment cooling' section. > > http://terryseaver.home.comcast.net/N135TD_mods.htm > > It has been commented that not all aircraft are alike in their cooling > issues, which I'm sure is quite true. The 912S installation acts > differently from the 914, and the mono-wheel quite different from the > tri-gear. Never-the-less, I believe the cowl mods we made might be > useful for all installations using the factory XS cowl, in that our mod > forces cooling air to pass, top-to-bottom, around the cylinders and out > the rear. Without the baffle behind the engine (and the louvers closed > off), cooling air just passes behind the engine instead. Remember, the > Rotax has liquid cooled heads, BUT air cooled cylinders, which implies > to me the need for baffling under the cowl similar to that done on > air-cooled LyCo-saurs. > > Regards, > Terry > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > R.C.Harrison > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 4:43 PM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: FW: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit > for purpose Gills slots in top cowl" > > --> > > Hi! All Europa Forum > Below is a message sequence I published thanking Terry Seaver for his > contribution of information. Seemingly it has been blocked by some > "Baracuda Spam Firewall Protection system of the Matronics Site . > Please give it access. > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > > -----Original Message----- > From: R.C.Harrison [mailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk] > Sent: 16 November 2006 22:23 > To: 'europa-list@matronics.com' > Subject: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gills > slots in top cowl" > > Hi! Terry > Thanks for the message below, it is invaluable at my stage of re-build > and I was suspicious of the facts having had no gills on my Jabiru > arrangement. > I will be making reference about your results should I need a mod. > application if you don't mind. > Regards and "thanks a million"! > Bob Harrison G-PTAG preparing for a 914 Rotax.c/w intercooler! > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:05:51 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: Europa-List: tailplane twist I have just discovered that I have the port stabilator at 0.6deg (laying the smart level on the aft trailing edge flat surface) different angle from the starboard. Is this normal, is it supposed to be like this? Does this matter? Will ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:04:51 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: tailplane twist Will it's not supposed to be like that but I doubt if it matters, I once saw Pete Clarke take off for a test flight with 1/2 an inch difference in the level of the trailing edges. He said he couldn't tell the difference, I was amazed. Graham btw Pete was the guy who did all those 12 turn spins etc. Good pilot William Daniell wrote: > I have just discovered that I have the port stabilator at 0.6deg > (laying the smart level on the aft trailing edge flat surface) > different angle from the starboard. > > > > Is this normal, is it supposed to be like this? > > > > Does this matter? > > > > Will > >* > > >* > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:00:50 PM PST US From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: Re: Europa-List: tailplane twist Yes, ours is twsted but dosent make a blind bit of difference - been flying 4 years. The fuselage twisted when we bonded on the top - the tailplane is about .5 of a degree out compared with the wings. Its not really measurable but obvious when you stand behind the aircraft and eyeball it. Carl Pattinson G-LABS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Singleton" Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 10:05 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: tailplane twist > > > Will > it's not supposed to be like that but I doubt if it matters, I once saw > Pete Clarke take off for a test flight with 1/2 an inch difference in the > level of the trailing edges. He said he couldn't tell the difference, I > was amazed. > Graham > btw Pete was the guy who did all those 12 turn spins etc. Good pilot > > William Daniell wrote: > >> I have just discovered that I have the port stabilator at 0.6deg (laying >> the smart level on the aft trailing edge flat surface) different angle >> from the starboard. >> >> >> Is this normal, is it supposed to be like this? >> >> >> Does this matter? >> >> >> Will >> >>* >> >> >>* >> > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:33:26 PM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: tailplane twist Thanks to all for setting my mind to rest. Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Pattinson Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 17:59 Subject: Re: Europa-List: tailplane twist Yes, ours is twsted but dosent make a blind bit of difference - been flying 4 years. The fuselage twisted when we bonded on the top - the tailplane is about .5 of a degree out compared with the wings. Its not really measurable but obvious when you stand behind the aircraft and eyeball it. Carl Pattinson G-LABS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Singleton" Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 10:05 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: tailplane twist > > > Will > it's not supposed to be like that but I doubt if it matters, I once saw > Pete Clarke take off for a test flight with 1/2 an inch difference in the > level of the trailing edges. He said he couldn't tell the difference, I > was amazed. > Graham > btw Pete was the guy who did all those 12 turn spins etc. Good pilot > > William Daniell wrote: > >> I have just discovered that I have the port stabilator at 0.6deg (laying >> the smart level on the aft trailing edge flat surface) different angle >> from the starboard. >> >> >> Is this normal, is it supposed to be like this? >> >> >> Does this matter? >> >> >> Will >> >>* >> >> >>* >> > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:03 PM PST US From: Tim Ward Subject: Re: Europa-List: tailplane twist Will, I had the same slight fuselage twist. Monowheel Classic #292. Reported it to Andy 7 years ago. 'Not to worry about it' he said, 'flys the same'. Must have been a slight twist in the mould. As Carl said, just annoys you when you can see it from the back. Helps, I think, with the prop. torque correction? Anyway, tick that box 'satis' ! Cheers, Tim -- Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton Christchurch. Ph. 64 33515166 MOB 0210640221 ward.t@xtra.co.nz ---- Carl Pattinson wrote: > > Yes, ours is twsted but dosent make a blind bit of difference - been flying > 4 years. > > The fuselage twisted when we bonded on the top - the tailplane is about .5 > of a degree out compared with the wings. > > Its not really measurable but obvious when you stand behind the aircraft and > eyeball it. > > Carl Pattinson > G-LABS > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Graham Singleton" > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 10:05 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: tailplane twist > > > > > > > > Will > > it's not supposed to be like that but I doubt if it matters, I once saw > > Pete Clarke take off for a test flight with 1/2 an inch difference in the > > level of the trailing edges. He said he couldn't tell the difference, I > > was amazed. > > Graham > > btw Pete was the guy who did all those 12 turn spins etc. Good pilot > > > > William Daniell wrote: > > > >> I have just discovered that I have the port stabilator at 0.6deg (laying > >> the smart level on the aft trailing edge flat surface) different angle > >> from the starboard. > >> > >> > >> Is this normal, is it supposed to be like this? > >> > >> > >> Does this matter? > >> > >> > >> Will > >> > >>* > >> > >> > >>* > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:50 PM PST US From: "Karl Heindl" Subject: RE: Europa-List: LOC I tried to make a contribution, but the CLICK HERE doesn't work. >From: Matt Dralle >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: LOC >Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 04:51:55 -0800 > > >Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message >acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support >the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a >minute to show their >appreciation for the Lists. > >Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of >Contributors (LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the >years, the List seems at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a >building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical magazine >subscription! > >Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show >others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the >Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web >Site: > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > >or by popping a personal check in the mail to: > > Matt Dralle / Matronics > PO Box 347 > Livermore CA 94551-0347 > >I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution >thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support >that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a >little comment >about how the Lists have helped you! > >Best regards, > >Matt Dralle >Matronics Email List Administrator > > _________________________________________________________________ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:04 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RE: Europa-List: LOC Karl, Try restarting your browser, that is usually the trick. Which browser are you using and on which platform (PC/Mac/Linux)? I've tested the site with a fair number of browsers with good results. The exception is Netscape 4.7 which has trouble with the newer security libraries. Please restart your browser and give it another go. Drop me an email directly at dralle@matronics.com if you continue to have problems. Thanks in advance for your Contribution! Matt Dralle At 04:04 PM 11/18/2006 Saturday, you wrote: > >I tried to make a contribution, but the CLICK HERE doesn't work. >> >>Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: >> >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >>or by popping a personal check in the mail to: >> >> Matt Dralle / Matronics >> PO Box 347 >> Livermore CA 94551-0347 Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft