Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:10 AM - Why? [Please Read] (Matt Dralle)
1. 03:14 AM - Re: To Those That Have Sanded Before Me... :) (Graham Singleton)
2. 03:29 AM - Re: Oil cooler thermostat (Raimo Toivio)
3. 03:45 AM - Re: Oil cooler thermostat (Gilles Thesee)
4. 05:54 AM - Re: To Those That Have Sanded Before Me... :) (Jack Hilditch)
5. 07:19 AM - Re: To Those That Have Sanded Before Me... :) (EuropaXSA276@aol.com)
6. 07:38 AM - Re: To Those That Have Sanded Before Me... :) (Graham Singleton)
7. 11:10 AM - Re: FW: Was Re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gills slots in top cowl" (Terry Seaver (terrys))
8. 12:04 PM - FW: Was - Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now &quo (josok)
9. 12:19 PM - Re: To Those That Have Sanded Before Me... :) (Fred Klein)
10. 12:53 PM - Re: Oil cooler thermostat (Raimo Toivio)
11. 12:56 PM - engine extras like thermostat, w-o exchanger and el.water heater (Raimo Toivio)
12. 05:46 PM - Re: Help Needed (SPurpura@aol.com)
13. 10:29 PM - Re: FW: Was - Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now &quo (ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk)
14. 10:35 PM - Re: FW: Was Re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gills slots in top cowl" (ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk)
15. 10:39 PM - Re: FW: Was Re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose Gills slots in top cowl" (William Mills)
Message 0
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| Subject: | Why? [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
Each year I like to explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity
to express why I think the List Services here provide a superior experience
over the commercial equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running
a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support
from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run
the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying
banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell little-blue-pills or other
garbage nobody wants or needs. From the comments I've received over the years
regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate
the non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter
once a year during November to encourage members to support the Lists.
I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer many benefits over
the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first feature I believe to
be significant is that you cannot receive a computer v*rus from any of these
Lists directly. Each incoming message is filtered and dangerous attachments
stripped off prior to posting. I also provide a Photo and File Share feature
that allows members to share files and bitmaps with other members and everyone
can be assured that these files will be prescanned for any sort of v*rus before
they are posted. Safe and simple.
Another very important feature of this system in my opinion is the extensive List
Archives that are available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives
go all the way back to the very beginning of each List and with the very
fast Search Engine, the huge size of some of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly
finding the data you're looking for.
And added just this year is the new Email List Forum that allows members who prefer
the Web BBS-style of List interaction. The beauty of the new List Forums
is that they contain the exact same content that is distributed via email. Messages
posted via email are cross-posted to the respective Forum and vice versa.
The Forums also allow for another convenient method of sharing pictures and
other files. Additionally added this year is the new List Wiki that allows
members to build their own "Online List Encyclopedia" of sorts, documenting various
aspects of their project for all to share.
I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since
about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys I knew and who where also building
RVs. It has grown into nearly 70 different aviation-related Email Lists and
an associated web site that receives over 23,000,000 hits each year!! Additionally,
the List Email system forwarded well over 87,000 postings last year,
accounting for an unbelievable 39,000,000 (yes, that's 39 MILLION) email messages
delivered to Matronics List subscribers! I think there's a lot of value in
supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and
improving a high quality service all _without any advertising budget_!
I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows in the
quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email Message,
Search the Archives, use the List Browser, or surf the Forums and Wiki sites.
The Lists will be here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk
a while for free, that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate,
and receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the
Annual List Fund Raiser!
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: To Those That Have Sanded Before Me... :) |
Jeff
agree it's best to get all the filler on at the first pass but then sand
to a template of the L Edge, it needs to be accurate to a couple of thou
or you may well have a nasty stall. It's very easy to knock off the
sharp LE radius even with unbacked abrasive paper. The position of the
center of the radius is critical too. Believe me, the stall can be quite
benign but it can also be vicious.
You need the CAD coordinates of the section and Turbocad or similar.
Autocad does it of course but that can be Xpensive.
I don't have the CAD any more but someone has. Kingsley old mate?
Graham
JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
> Hi Brian,
> I just put it on thick, sometimes using my fingers... gloved of
> course. Let your large sanding block with 80 grit in diagonal motion
> one way, then back the other take it back down to the shape of the
> leading edge. Get with anyone local thats built a glass plane. I did
> with a local long EZ builder and his advice or on hands experience was
> priceless.
> Regards,
> Jeff
> A258 Gold Rush @ 55 hours
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2006, at 4:14 PM, EuropaXSA276@aol.com wrote:
>
> To Those That Have Sanded Before Me...
>
> Would anyone like to share a helpful hint on applying filler
> smoothly to a leading edge? The Anti Servo Tab is giving me fits
> today....
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Brian Skelly
> Europa XS TriGear #A276
> North Texas USA
> You can see my build photos at:
> http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
> *
>
>
> www.aeroelectric.com
> www.buildersbooks.com
> www.kitlog.com
> www.homebuilthelp.com
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>
>
> *
>
>
> size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
> Builder's Bookstore
> HomebuiltHELP
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler thermostat |
Shit happens....
I am sorry about your Mazda.
Are you SURE "they" have changed
the cooling liquid never ever?
Did not you get any warnings before damage?!
After that, did you leave the thermostat
out of your car = uninstalled = eliminating
it happens never again?!
The safest way is to NOT limit your cooling
system by the help of thermostats or flaps.
But if you still like to do it, which way is safer?!
If the thermostat is jammed in closed-position,
you should notice it before take-off. I think it is a
normal practise to check engine temp is normal
and it stays there before take off.
And when driving car, many people stop their car
when temp gauge is coming close to red...before
damage.
One fact: many "extras" are some kind of risk also.
(Flying) life is full of alternatives. One has to make
best choice suitable just for him. The water thermostat
is one of my choosing...
Regards, Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Housman
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 5:24 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Oil cooler thermostat
Well, since you asked..
I recently had to replace the thermostat in my 1995 Mazda Miata (OK,
that is a trifle older than 10 years). Since the thing failed CLOSED I
also had to replace the radiator which burst from the pressure built up
when the engine overheated (which implies that the pressure relief
feature of the radiator cap also did not work as intended). The car has
been maintained per Mazda recommendations.
As for failing in the open position, consider that it normally cycles
with engine temperature and therefore can jam in either the open or
closed position.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 8:39 AM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil cooler thermostat
Vaughn,
I cannot be absolutely sure but NORMALLY
thermostat design itself leaves it fully
open in failure situation.
Who knows ANY broken thermostat in
cars (younger than 10-20 years)?
Problems may occur if the coolant liquid
is NEVER changed.
In cars most people never do it IMHO.
Just like brake fluid, it should be changed
regularly (let=B4s say once a 1-3 year
to remove moisture and small obstackles etc).
May I suggest you to go some car spare shop,
keep it on your hand and look at it carefully?
Regards, Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: Europa List
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 4:57 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Oil cooler thermostat
I would be very inclined to go with a water thermostat, but I have one
question. If it fails, does it fail closed or open?
Vaughn
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.comhref="http://w
ww.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.comhref="http://www.kitlog.com"
>www.kitlog.comhref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.co
mhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matro
n -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler thermostat |
Raimo,
> The safest way is to NOT limit your cooling
> system by the help of thermostats or flaps.
If you have engineering or research data to support this statement,
would you mind expanding on it?
Thanks,
Regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 4
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| Subject: | To Those That Have Sanded Before Me... :) |
Composite racing sailboat builders use a technique that produces a fair
surface, without bumps or valleys, while minimizing weight or extra filler.
They screed the filler/resin mix onto the surface using a small-toothed,
serrated plastic trowel (the same kind used to apply ceramic tile cement to
walls). After it cures they use a 'long board' to sand it down. The 'long
board' is not a fixed size. It can be 2" x 24" , 4" x 48" or any other
size, depending on the surface area to be sanded. Most of them are made up
in the shop using a piece of planking with a couple of hand made handles
screwed to it and the sand paper glued or clamped to that. The long board
rasps off the high areas, but leaves the valleys clearly identified by the
serrated 'stripes' of resin/filler. On the next pass you only need apply
the mix to areas that remain 'striped'. It saves work because the actual
surface area to be sanded is reduced to the high points or 'lands' left by
the serrated trowel rather than a raised patch left by a smooth trowel. It
also saves on expensive resin. You get an additional bonus using the
technique in that the serrations also leave a greater surface area, and
irregular surface, for the next coat to bind with or key to. Hope this
helps. I spent plenty of time working on racing sailboats in the US and UK
so I know the technique works with resins from both sides of 'the pond'.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Jack Hilditch
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF ROBERTS
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: To Those That Have Sanded Before Me... :)
Hi Brian,
I just put it on thick, sometimes using my fingers... gloved of course. Let
your large sanding block with 80 grit in diagonal motion one way, then back
the other take it back down to the shape of the leading edge. Get with
anyone local thats built a glass plane. I did with a local long EZ builder
and his advice or on hands experience was priceless.
Regards,
Jeff
A258 Gold Rush @ 55 hours
On Nov 19, 2006, at 4:14 PM, EuropaXSA276@aol.com wrote:
To Those That Have Sanded Before Me...
Would anyone like to share a helpful hint on applying filler smoothly to a
leading edge? The Anti Servo Tab is giving me fits today....
Thanks in advance.
Brian Skelly
Europa XS TriGear #A276
North Texas USA
You can see my build photos at:
http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
www.kitlog.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: To Those That Have Sanded Before Me... :) |
This is a very interesting technique Jack. I am assuming that a flat trowel
is used on the second pass to fill the valleys?
Brian Skelly
Europa XS TriGear #A276
North Texas USA
You can see my build photos at:
http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: To Those That Have Sanded Before Me... :) |
Jack
This does work but it is vital to be certain that the resin/microballoon
mix is identical otherwise you will get hard and soft stripes, I got
that tea shirt once! It would be good with Superfil.
Graham
Jack Hilditch wrote:
> Composite racing sailboat builders use a technique that produces a
> fair surface, without bumps or valleys, while minimizing weight or
> extra filler. They screed the filler/resin mix onto the surface using
> a small-toothed, serrated plastic trowel (the same kind used to apply
> ceramic tile cement to walls). After it cures they use a long board
> to sand it down. The long board is not a fixed size. It can be 2 x
> 24 , 4 x 48 or any other size, depending on the surface area to be
> sanded. Most of them are made up in the shop using a piece of planking
> with a couple of hand made handles screwed to it and the sand paper
> glued or clamped to that. The long board rasps off the high areas, but
> leaves the valleys clearly identified by the serrated stripes of
> resin/filler. On the next pass you only need apply the mix to areas
> that remain striped. It saves work because the actual surface area
> to be sanded is reduced to the high points or lands left by the
> serrated trowel rather than a raised patch left by a smooth trowel. It
> also saves on expensive resin. You get an additional bonus using the
> technique in that the serrations also leave a greater surface area,
> and irregular surface, for the next coat to bind with or key to. Hope
> this helps. I spent plenty of time working on racing sailboats in the
> US and UK so I know the technique works with resins from both sides of
> the pond. Hope this helps.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jack Hilditch
>
>*
>*
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | FW: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose |
Gills slots in top cowl"
Hi William,
We do not have the factory 912S shroud. The baffle in the rear and
closing off most of the gills is in lieu of the factory shroud.
It is not obvious to me that the gills are necessary or helpful for
cooling the regulator. Although we checked the temps in the top of the
cowl, between the carbs, we didn't check the temps at the regulator.
That might be an interesting experiment.
Regards,
Terry Seaver
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Mills
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: FW: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now
"fit for purpose Gills slots in top cowl"
--> <william@wrmills.plus.com>
Terry, Have you got the 912S shroud fitted to your engine, which takes
cold air from behind the prop and forces it down through the cylinder
fins?
Assuming you have, does your ali baffle across the foot wells still aid
general under cowl cooling?
All, If the gills are blanked off, has anyone found an alternative
location for the regulator to keep it in cool air?
Regards,
William
Message 8
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| Subject: | FW: Was - Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now &quo |
Hi All,
This one i got from Nev, who likes to install the regulator, the TCU, and the servo
in a box on the P1 footwell, to be fed with cool air via a scat tube from
the air-intake box or from the front of the radiators. And will be my setup.
If i got it wrong i will be corrected i guesss
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: To Those That Have Sanded Before Me... :) |
Jack,
As I visualize this technique, I take it that the strokes of the
serrated screed are chordwise (rather than spanwise) in order to
facilitate the maintaining of the airfoil.
Please confirm.
Fred
A194
> Jack Hilditch wrote:
>
>> Composite racing sailboat builders use a technique that produces a
>> fair surface, without bumps or valleys, while minimizing weight or
>> extra filler. They screed the filler/resin mix onto the surface using
>> a small-toothed, serrated plastic trowel (the same kind used to apply
>> ceramic tile cement to walls).
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler thermostat |
Well Gilles,
I have nothing but just common sense.
Keep it simple is a beautiful principle also for safety.
If Robs Mazda would not have thermostat,
it would not be broken also.
If you have nothing
(to limit air flow by flaps or water flow by thermostat),
they cannot be broken also.
Most people fly happily w their Rotaxes w/o any system
to restrict cooling air or water flow, am I right?
Some people - like me - wanna still have those benefits
you get when purposely restrict cooling, when necessary.
Safety is not the factor to use thermostat /flaps.
Your convenience, engine health, pollution and
fuel consumption are.
After this message I will send an other message attached
some pics about thermostat, water-oil exchanger and an
electric heater for water.
Hope this helps, Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil cooler thermostat
>
> Raimo,
> > If you have engineering or research data to support this statement,
> would you mind expanding on it?
>
> Thanks,
> Regards,
> Gilles
> http://contrails.free.fr
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | engine extras like thermostat, w-o exchanger and el.water |
heater
If somebody is intressed:
#1012 water-oil exchanger
#1013 water thermostat (middle) and
electric heater for water (right side)
#1014 water heated carburrettor,
a carburrettor bowl for overflow situation and
a stand for a microswitch which is a part
of "poor man=B4s gear-upp warning system"
Raimo #417 "Tuuli-Ilmatar"
Message 12
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You want a brass 1/8" mpt compression coupling,avail at any Home Depot. You
may need to open the hole for the probe though.
Message 13
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| Subject: | FW: Was - Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now &quo |
Hi! Jos/all
I haven't the figures to hand but I know there is a big through put of luke
warm air from the used intercooler air and I believe it will be beneficial
to hose it across and down the back of the engine and where my P1 foot well
will have the TCU and Regulator fitted, which could also be boxed, with
expelled air jetted at the alternator and ignition system downwards. This
IMHO will all encourage the general downward flow of cooling air promoted
by high pressure in the cowl top. This was undoubtedly the successful way
I cooled the Jabiru Six. Nevilles thoughts below certainly reinforce my
experiences to date.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>-- Original Message --
>Subject: Europa-List: FW: Was - Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now &quo
>From: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
>Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 22:02:44 +0200
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>
>
>
>Hi All,
>
>This one i got from Nev, who likes to install the regulator, the TCU, and
>the servo in a box on the P1 footwell, to be fed with cool air via a scat
>tube from the air-intake box or from the front of the radiators. And will
>be my setup. If i got it wrong i will be corrected i guesss
>
>Regards,
>
>Jos Okhuijsen
>
___________________________________________________________
Tiscali Unlimited Broadband with FREE weekend calls only 12.99!
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/
Message 14
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| Subject: | FW: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose |
Gills slots in top cowl"
Hi! Terry/all
As explained my Jabiru regulator was situated on the P1 footwell and suffered
no thermal stress in 600 hours without gills.
My point is that if a flow of air isn't going there it won't be taking excess
heat with it ! ?
BTW thanks for your extensive pictures and documents provided on this topic.
regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>-- Original Message --
>Subject: RE: Europa-List: FW: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit
>for purpose Gills slots in top cowl"
>Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 11:08:35 -0800
>From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com>
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>
>
>
>Hi William,
>
>We do not have the factory 912S shroud. The baffle in the rear and
>closing off most of the gills is in lieu of the factory shroud.
>
>It is not obvious to me that the gills are necessary or helpful for
>cooling the regulator. Although we checked the temps in the top of the
>cowl, between the carbs, we didn't check the temps at the regulator.
>That might be an interesting experiment.
>
>Regards,
>Terry Seaver
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
>Mills
>Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 12:45 AM
>To: Europa Forum
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: FW: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now
>"fit for purpose Gills slots in top cowl"
>
>--> <william@wrmills.plus.com>
>
>Terry, Have you got the 912S shroud fitted to your engine, which takes
>cold air from behind the prop and forces it down through the cylinder
>fins?
>Assuming you have, does your ali baffle across the foot wells still aid
>general under cowl cooling?
>
>All, If the gills are blanked off, has anyone found an alternative
>location for the regulator to keep it in cool air?
>
>Regards,
>
>William
>
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: FW: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit for purpose |
Gills slots in top cowl"
Thanks for the reply, Terry.
I intend to purchase a thermocouple or two so that I can monitor the
temperature in the vicinity of the regulator with the gills open and then
with them taped over, on the same day, to see what happens. If the gills
appear to be effective, I will still consider blanking them off but
replacing the stbd one with a small nacca inlet directed at the regulator.
Regards,
William
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 7:08 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: FW: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now "fit
for purpose Gills slots in top cowl"
> <terrys@cisco.com>
>
> Hi William,
>
> We do not have the factory 912S shroud. The baffle in the rear and
> closing off most of the gills is in lieu of the factory shroud.
>
> It is not obvious to me that the gills are necessary or helpful for
> cooling the regulator. Although we checked the temps in the top of the
> cowl, between the carbs, we didn't check the temps at the regulator.
> That might be an interesting experiment.
>
> Regards,
> Terry Seaver
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
> Mills
> Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 12:45 AM
> To: Europa Forum
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: FW: Was re:- Oil Cooler Thermostat ....now
> "fit for purpose Gills slots in top cowl"
>
> --> <william@wrmills.plus.com>
>
> Terry, Have you got the 912S shroud fitted to your engine, which takes
> cold air from behind the prop and forces it down through the cylinder
> fins?
> Assuming you have, does your ali baffle across the foot wells still aid
> general under cowl cooling?
>
> All, If the gills are blanked off, has anyone found an alternative
> location for the regulator to keep it in cool air?
>
> Regards,
>
> William
>
>
> --
>
>
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