---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/07/06: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:18 AM - Re: A few instruments for sale (Richard Collings) 2. 10:16 AM - Aileron tip "droop" (Fred Klein) 3. 12:59 PM - Re: Cooling diffuser (Gilles Thesee) 4. 03:49 PM - Re: Aileron tip "droop" (SteveD) 5. 03:51 PM - Re: Aileron tip "droop" (karelvranken) 6. 04:43 PM - Re: Aileron tip "droop" (Graham Singleton) 7. 04:53 PM - Re: Aileron tip "droop" (Dean Seitz) 8. 05:40 PM - Re: Aileron tip "droop" (Fred Klein) 9. 08:02 PM - Monowheel Trailer (Bill Henderson) 10. 09:42 PM - Re: Aileron tip "droop" (R.C.Harrison) 11. 11:18 PM - Re: A few instruments for sale (Phil Tait) 12. 11:51 PM - Re: Aileron tip "droop" (Keith Hickling) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:18:38 AM PST US From: "Richard Collings" Subject: Re: Europa-List: A few instruments for sale Hi My name is Richard Collings, I have been building kit 458 for the last 18 month and would be very interested in buying all of it. Please contact me on r.collings@onetel.net or my tel No 01327260045 mobile 07802 416119.Regards Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: Simon Smith To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 9:20 PM Subject: Europa-List: A few instruments for sale Hi all, I have had a change round and the following are now surplus to requirements so I thought that I would offer them here first. All have had only 20hrs use and are in vgc. VSI +/- 2000ft/min =A345 Turn Co-ord =A3125 DI (vac) =A3150 AI (vac) =A3150 Rotax Tacho 912/914 =A360 VDO 4 pack (V/CHT/OilP/OilT) =A380 VDO Boost gauge =A320 VDO Fuel Gauge =A320 Vac parts (Pump/reg/filter/gauge/hoses) =A3200 All are priced at roughly half current retail and include UK postage. If interested, please contact me off list at europa504@gmail.com Thanks Simon G-BZTN Do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 12/7/2006 01:27 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:16:19 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Aileron tip "droop" From: Fred Klein All, Finally, my XS wings are almost complete and I'm psyched to move onto the cockpit module. I've marveled at the way the flaps and ailerons mate with the wing washout...Ms. Europa is indeed a clean machine...and here's the rub: I've noticed that on both wings, outboard of the outermost aileron hinge, my ailerons "droop" about 1/16th of an inch such that the air flow on the underside will be disturbed at the hinge line. I'm considering adding a short length of hinge to bring the bottom of the aileron even with the lower wing skin. Has anyone else had a similar condition, and if so, was it ignored?...or how was it dealt with? Fred A194 ...happily building, regretting delays, and envious of those in the air... ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:59:40 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cooling diffuser Salut Rmi and all, Been much too busy those past few days. Slowly catching up on the cooling conversation. Many valuable inputs indeed. > ... Therefore they do not provide a lot of air flow where the air > inlets are located. On the other hand, most MCR are using the MT prop > whose design is just the opposite: very wide blades at the root and a > lot of twist which is a lot more effective ventilator. > True. Now this is much less of an issue when the inlet is located far from the propeller center line,at the bottom of the cowl, for instance. > My own fix for the Europa cowling is a variable air scoop, below the > existing inlet, ahead of the radiator. Theoretically it is very bad, > but it works! It works because this additional inlet is located > farther from the propeller axis, therefore receiving more air flow. > Sure this adds a lot of drag, but who cares about drag during taxi > and run-up? The scoop is positioned back to neutral just before take > off and can be closed to blank the radiators at cruise and descent at > cold temperatures. > I wanted to be sure to build up as much static pressure in the intake to cool efficiently, and still have enough pressure left after crossing the radiator, to exit at as high a velocity as practical. The goal was to cool and still achieve lower drag. Regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:49:13 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron tip "droop" From: "SteveD" Yes, I have the same problem. One aileron is worse than the other. I noticed it during fitting, tried to make an adjustment, failed. I then added it to my squawk list notebook, to see if like many of my other little squawks, it got fixed or went away by performing later steps in the manual. It didn't. I was all so thinking of adding a little extra hinge. Chat Later, Steved Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:42 PM PST US From: "karelvranken" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron tip "droop" Fred, You are a fine builder, nearly perfect is not good enough. I placed a small spacer under the hinge so that the aileron mates exactly with the wing. Karel Vranken, F-PKRL # 447 XS monowheel Rotax 912ULS Airmaster CSU, sixteen hours and waiting for final certificate of navigability. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Klein" Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:14 PM Subject: Europa-List: Aileron tip "droop" > > All, > > Finally, my XS wings are almost complete and I'm psyched to move onto the > cockpit module. I've marveled at the way the flaps and ailerons mate with > the wing washout...Ms. Europa is indeed a clean machine...and here's the > rub: I've noticed that on both wings, outboard of the outermost aileron > hinge, my ailerons "droop" about 1/16th of an inch such that the air flow > on the underside will be disturbed at the hinge line. I'm considering > adding a short length of hinge to bring the bottom of the aileron even > with the lower wing skin. > > Has anyone else had a similar condition, and if so, was it ignored?...or > how was it dealt with? > > Fred > A194 > > ...happily building, regretting delays, and envious of those in the air... > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:59 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron tip "droop" Fred Or you might add an extra ply of BID to make the flange a bit thicker, make it stronger too, that area is a bit prone to cracks in the paint after some flying. (I think I understood youir question but can't be certain ;-) ) Graham karelvranken wrote: > > > Fred, > You are a fine builder, nearly perfect is not good enough. I placed a > small spacer under the hinge so that the aileron mates exactly with > the wing. > Karel Vranken, F-PKRL # 447 XS monowheel Rotax 912ULS Airmaster CSU, > sixteen hours and waiting for final certificate of navigability. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Klein" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:14 PM > Subject: Europa-List: Aileron tip "droop" > > >> >> All, >> >> Finally, my XS wings are almost complete and I'm psyched to move onto >> the cockpit module. I've marveled at the way the flaps and ailerons >> mate with the wing washout...Ms. Europa is indeed a clean >> machine...and here's the rub: I've noticed that on both wings, >> outboard of the outermost aileron hinge, my ailerons "droop" about >> 1/16th of an inch such that the air flow on the underside will be >> disturbed at the hinge line. I'm considering adding a short length >> of hinge to bring the bottom of the aileron even with the lower wing >> skin. >> >> Has anyone else had a similar condition, and if so, was it >> ignored?...or how was it dealt with? >> >> Fred >> A194 >> >> ...happily building, regretting delays, and envious of those in the >> air... >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:34 PM PST US From: "Dean Seitz" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Aileron tip "droop" Yes, mine were that way also. I did add the extra hinge at the tip. Its got 140 hrs on it now and works fine. Dean Seitz N284A -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 1:14 PM Subject: Europa-List: Aileron tip "droop" All, Finally, my XS wings are almost complete and I'm psyched to move onto the cockpit module. I've marveled at the way the flaps and ailerons mate with the wing washout...Ms. Europa is indeed a clean machine...and here's the rub: I've noticed that on both wings, outboard of the outermost aileron hinge, my ailerons "droop" about 1/16th of an inch such that the air flow on the underside will be disturbed at the hinge line. I'm considering adding a short length of hinge to bring the bottom of the aileron even with the lower wing skin. Has anyone else had a similar condition, and if so, was it ignored?...or how was it dealt with? Fred A194 ...happily building, regretting delays, and envious of those in the air... ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron tip "droop" From: Fred Klein Thanks guys for the input...though this project constantly provokes my battles w/ perfectionism, my sense has been that certain things (including basic air flow over and under the wings) warrant special attention. A short hinge at the aileron tip will raise the bottom surface of the aileron into alignment w/ the bottom surface of the wing. It's great to know that solution has worked for others. Fred A194 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:04 PM PST US From: "Bill Henderson" Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel Trailer Would someone with a monowheel trailer mind making some measurements for me? I will be aquiring a trailier with a few missing parts and will need to make them. Here's what I need: 1. Measurements for the aluminum I beam between the rear wheels. Width, height, Length, and thickness. Also bolt hole locations and diameter. Guess you've figured out by now this is one of the missing parts. 2. Measurements for the "ramp" for the monowheel. Length, width, height, and thickness. 3. Did anyone get any assembly instructions with the trailer? Any chance they could be scanned and emailed. Thanks, Bill Henderson Monowheel Classic Rotax 912S (Almost 11 years and still building.....) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:44 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Aileron tip "droop" Hi! Karel/Fred I didn't change mine after filling and painting it was negligible. However as Graham says another layer of bit would be better than a packing. May as well have the weight of your "fudge" work for you instead of being a passenger for the life of the a/c ! Regards And a Merry Christmas and a Happy Health New Year 2007 to all. Bob Harrison G-PTAG (Waiting and tinkering!) -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of karelvranken Sent: 07 December 2006 23:58 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron tip "droop" Fred, You are a fine builder, nearly perfect is not good enough. I placed a small spacer under the hinge so that the aileron mates exactly with the wing. Karel Vranken, F-PKRL # 447 XS monowheel Rotax 912ULS Airmaster CSU, sixteen hours and waiting for final certificate of navigability. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Klein" Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:14 PM Subject: Europa-List: Aileron tip "droop" ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:34 PM PST US From: "Phil Tait" Subject: RE: Europa-List: A few instruments for sale Simon Do you still have the turn co-ord? If yes what make is it? Regards Phil Tait Modile:- 07709 317405 _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Simon Smith Sent: 06 December 2006 21:21 Subject: Europa-List: A few instruments for sale Hi all, I have had a change round and the following are now surplus to requirements so I thought that I would offer them here first. All have had only 20hrs use and are in vgc. VSI +/- 2000ft/min =A345 Turn Co-ord =A3125 DI (vac) =A3150 AI (vac) =A3150 Rotax Tacho 912/914 =A360 VDO 4 pack (V/CHT/OilP/OilT) =A380 VDO Boost gauge =A320 VDO Fuel Gauge =A320 Vac parts (Pump/reg/filter/gauge/hoses) =A3200 All are priced at roughly half current retail and include UK postage. If interested, please contact me off list at europa504@gmail.com Thanks Simon G-BZTN Do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:34 PM PST US From: Keith Hickling Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron tip "droop" Hi Fred, I also have this problem, but have not yet closed the wings. I have believed the problem is a result of the aileron closeout pressing down on the top surface of the aileron, because when off the wings the aileron hings flange is perfectly straight. With the ailerons mounted, lifting the closeout lets the aileron tip rise. If so, I assume the problem will disappear when the top skin is bonded on with a spacer between the aileron and the closeout with the aileron held in the correct position. Are your wings closed? Regards, Keith Hickling. XS mono kit 613 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Klein" Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 7:14 AM Subject: Europa-List: Aileron tip "droop" > > All, > > Finally, my XS wings are almost complete and I'm psyched to move onto the > cockpit module. I've marveled at the way the flaps and ailerons mate with > the wing washout...Ms. Europa is indeed a clean machine...and here's the > rub: I've noticed that on both wings, outboard of the outermost aileron > hinge, my ailerons "droop" about 1/16th of an inch such that the air flow > on the underside will be disturbed at the hinge line. I'm considering > adding a short length of hinge to bring the bottom of the aileron even > with the lower wing skin. > > Has anyone else had a similar condition, and if so, was it ignored?...or > how was it dealt with? > > Fred > A194 > > ...happily building, regretting delays, and envious of those in the air... > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.