---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/14/06: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:52 AM - (ctsmallwood) 2. 03:44 AM - Vne speed (=?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Guerner?=) 3. 06:07 AM - Re: Vne Speed (josok) 4. 07:56 AM - Re: Vne Speed (Steve Pitt) 5. 08:15 AM - Re: (nigel charles) 6. 10:50 AM - Re: Vne Speed () 7. 10:50 AM - Re: Vne Speed (Fred Klein) 8. 11:58 AM - Re: Vne Speed (Tim Ward) 9. 01:30 PM - Re: Vne Speed (Tony Krzyzewski) 10. 03:42 PM - Re: Vne Speed (Jan de Jong) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:43 AM PST US From: "ctsmallwood" Subject: Europa-List: Hi All 2 points please Anyone in the Leicester area, with a Mono, Help please The guy who built my trailer for ( Tri- G-DEBR) is building one for a Scottish Mono owner ( fully covered) and he would like to check a Mono out. I am looking to Borrow a VSWR meter to check my Europa ariel I will organize if anyone can help Please contact ctsmallwood@onetel.com Tel. 01773 570329 108 Heage Rd Ripley Derby DE53GH ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:02 AM PST US From: =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Guerner?= Subject: Europa-List: Vne speed Hello all, Some additional info on this subject : FAR 23, paragraph 1323, states that the airspeed error, i.e. difference between IAS (indicated airspeed) and CAS (corrected airspeed) should not be higher than 3% or 5 knots whichever is greater. That means that CAS and IAS are very close to eachother. So, provided that the Europa pitot system is close to this requirement, you can safely rely on the airspeed indicator to avoid exceeding the speed limitations. Remi Guerner F-PGKL ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vne Speed From: "josok" Hi All, OK, interesting discussion to start of with. Appreciated that Vne should never be exceeded, has there ever been structural damage caused by over speeding to a Europa? Or to make the question even wider, has there ever been damage to an Europa excluding take-offs and landings? Not that i intend to over speed, but it would be nice to know how sturdy this ship is. Kind Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:49 AM PST US From: "Steve Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vne Speed Jos I did ask Andy about the wing strength and VNE when in Florida this year. We were discussing some of the speeds that the Americans were reaching with tail winds and at high level. I am sure that he said that the wing had been designed to somewhere around 300 mph so that any of the Americans flying high and fast were still within the limits of the design (without getting too technical). I believe him and was reassured that exceeding VNE would not rip the wings off (not that I would want to go that way). Regards Steve ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:22 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: If you are a member of the Europa Club you can borrow a VSWR meter from the club. Nigel Charles -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ctsmallwood Sent: 14 December 2006 11:34 Subject: Europa-List: Hi All 2 points please Anyone in the Leicester area, with a Mono, Help please The guy who built my trailer for ( Tri- G-DEBR) is building one for a Scottish Mono owner ( fully covered) and he would like to check a Mono out. I am looking to Borrow a VSWR meter to check my Europa ariel I will organize if anyone can help Please contact ctsmallwood@onetel.com Tel. 01773 570329 108 Heage Rd Ripley Derby DE53GH ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:50:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vne Speed From: As far ab breaking a Europa in flight: My partner designed a short wing Europa in X-Plane. One thing that was a real eye opener was looking at stress lines seeing just how much the tips of the wings get loaded negative (large twist forces) with the flaps down if you go not much faster than flap limit speed. My bet is the wing would fail and the flaps would be in perfect shape. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:50:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vne Speed From: Fred Klein Hi All, Apropos the questions posed by Jos, Alex Bowman reported an occasion w/ his 130 hp Honda powered XS mono w/ Airmaster prop when his throttle linkage parted while cruising at 2500 ft ASL during the summer in British Columbia. The throttle was spring-loaded to go to full power (rather than idle in such an event); Alex observed an IAS in excess of 200 mph in a climb prior to going to fine pitch and eventually shutting down for an uneventful dead stick landing. Alex was carrying a 200 lb passenger at the time with about 3/4 fuel. I'm uncertain of the duration of this high speed, but I believe it was more than just an instant and less than a minute. With the heavier engine, Alex's plane is approved by Canadian authorities for a MTOW of 1500 lb. There was no visible structural damage as a consequence nor is any suspected. Though one may question the extra horses and high MTOW for the Europa, for myself, I am content that Alex's experience and knowledge gained during his career as a test pilot for the RCAF were adequate guides for his choices & configuration. Fred A194 On Thursday, December 14, 2006, at 06:04 AM, josok wrote: > > Hi All, > OK, interesting discussion to start of with. Appreciated that Vne > should never be exceeded, has there ever been structural damage caused > by over speeding to a Europa? Or to make the question even wider, has > there ever been damage to an Europa excluding take-offs and landings? > Not that i intend to over speed, but it would be nice to know how > sturdy this ship is. > > Kind Regards, > > Jos Okhuijsen ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:58:21 AM PST US From: "Tim Ward" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vne Speed During Flight Testing and flutter tests I took my Monowheeel Classic to 184kts (Vne + 10%) IAS and did the flutter tests. Managed to do all controls in one attempt from 10000ft. Came out of the dive very slowly at 1000ft. All held together perfectly. No flutter, thank god. Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand Ph +64 3 3515166 Mobile 021 0640221 ward.t@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Pitt" Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 4:54 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vne Speed > > > Jos > I did ask Andy about the wing strength and VNE when in Florida this year. > We were discussing some of the speeds that the Americans were reaching > with tail winds and at high level. I am sure that he said that the wing > had been designed to somewhere around 300 mph so that any of the Americans > flying high and fast were still within the limits of the design (without > getting too technical). > I believe him and was reassured that exceeding VNE would not rip the wings > off (not that I would want to go that way). > Regards > Steve > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:30:00 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vne Speed From: "Tony Krzyzewski" >>> OK, interesting discussion to start of with. Appreciated that Vne should never be exceeded, has there ever been structural damage caused by over speeding to a Europa? Or to make the question even wider, has there ever been damage to an Europa excluding take-offs and landings? Not that i intend to over speed, but it would be nice to know how sturdy this ship is. During the initial testing of the Airmaster prop the PFA requested a vibration analysis report of a rapid throttle backoff at Vne+10% as another (unnamed) constant speed prop had shown excessive vibration when the same test was performed as speeds less than Vne. I did the rapid throttle backoff test at 7000 feet and ZK-UBD felt like it was running on rails at 185KIAS. When I got down we found that the vibration sensor head had failed so I had to go back up and repeat the process! Tony ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:04 PM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vne Speed What made me wonder re Vne and CAS vs. TAS is: http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/flutter.html Jan de Jong ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.