Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:07 AM - Re: Vne Speed (David Joyce)
2. 03:32 AM - Re: Vne Speed (nigel charles)
3. 04:02 AM - Re: (ctsmallwood)
4. 05:19 AM - William Mills (Paddy Clarke)
5. 08:36 AM - Re: Vne Speed (William Daniell)
6. 09:46 AM - Re: Vne Speed (Rob Housman)
7. 10:34 AM - Re: Vne Speed ()
8. 12:49 PM - DOTH Panshanger Sat 16th (Paddy Clarke)
Message 1
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Ron, In Don Dykin's booklet about Europa aerodynamics he says that the flaps
take just about half of the plane's weight at top flap speed. With
aerodynamic forces increasing with speed squared I wouldn't want to rely on
the flaps not failing before the wings, which have been tested to 10g after
all!
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
----- Original Message -----
From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vne Speed
>
> As far ab breaking a Europa in flight:
>
> My partner designed a short wing Europa in X-Plane.
>
> One thing that was a real eye opener was looking at stress lines seeing
> just how much the tips of the wings get loaded negative (large twist
> forces) with the flaps down if you go not much faster than flap limit
> speed.
>
> My bet is the wing would fail and the flaps would be in perfect shape.
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
Message 2
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>In Don Dykin's booklet about Europa aerodynamics he says that the flaps
take just about half of the plane's weight at top flap speed. With
aerodynamic forces increasing with speed squared I wouldn't want to rely
on
the flaps not failing before the wings, which have been tested to 10g
after
all!<
I assume that this statement is with the flaps extended. One presumes
that the load taken by the flaps is much less when they are retracted.
Nigel Charles
Message 3
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Thanks Nigel for info for VSWR meter
Regards
Colin Smallwood
----- Original Message -----
From: nigel charles
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:14 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List:
If you are a member of the Europa Club you can borrow a VSWR meter
from the club.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ctsmallwood
Sent: 14 December 2006 11:34
To: europa list
Subject: Europa-List:
Hi All
2 points please
Anyone in the Leicester area, with a Mono, Help please
The guy who built my trailer for ( Tri- G-DEBR) is building one for a
Scottish
Mono owner ( fully covered) and he would like to check a Mono out.
I am looking to Borrow a VSWR meter to check my Europa ariel
I will organize if anyone can help
Please contact
ctsmallwood@onetel.com
Tel. 01773 570329
108 Heage Rd
Ripley
Derby
DE53GH
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Message 4
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Hi All,
If anyone is trying to get in touch with William Mills, his 'phone
line has been down for best part of a week now - so he has had no
internet connection. ( Tho' he can be reached on his landline number
as calls are being diverted ). The earliest he will be back on is
Monday.
Cheers, Paddy
Paddy Clarke
Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM
Message 5
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Someone also told me that the Vne sometimes has to do with elevator
effectiveness - that is to say that above a given speed the elevator ceases
to work...
Anyone else heard this is it BS.
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel charles
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 06:31
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vne Speed
>In Don Dykin's booklet about Europa aerodynamics he says that the flaps
take just about half of the plane's weight at top flap speed. With
aerodynamic forces increasing with speed squared I wouldn't want to rely
on
the flaps not failing before the wings, which have been tested to 10g
after
all!<
I assume that this statement is with the flaps extended. One presumes
that the load taken by the flaps is much less when they are retracted.
Nigel Charles
Message 6
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It's not BS. For a detailed discussion on the subject see
http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/flutter.html and scroll down to "control
reversal." Generally this is not a factor below around Mach 0.3 (OK,
that's about 200 KIAS).
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of William Daniell
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 8:35 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vne Speed
Someone also told me that the Vne sometimes has to do with elevator
effectiveness - that is to say that above a given speed the elevator ceases
to work...
Anyone else heard this is it BS.
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel charles
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 06:31
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vne Speed
>In Don Dykin's booklet about Europa aerodynamics he says that the flaps
take just about half of the plane's weight at top flap speed. With
aerodynamic forces increasing with speed squared I wouldn't want to rely
on
the flaps not failing before the wings, which have been tested to 10g
after
all!<
I assume that this statement is with the flaps extended. One presumes
that the load taken by the flaps is much less when they are retracted.
Nigel Charles
Message 7
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Hello David
"In Don Dykin's booklet about Europa aerodynamics he says that the flaps
take just about half of the plane's weight at top flap speed. With
aerodynamic forces increasing with speed squared I wouldn't want to rely
on
the flaps not failing before the wings, which have been tested to 10g
after
all!"
Were the XS short wings really tested and held up to 10 Gs, or was it
closer to 6 before failure?
I think the glider wings are stronger, and perhaps 10 on them?
What I was getting at, is with flaps down you have a wing that kinda sorta
has 30 degrees washout. Go much faster than max flap extension speed and
the tips are pushing through at a negative angle of attack, and the area
near flaps at a positive angle of attack. The net needs to be enough to
keep the plane in the air. There is this twisting and each half of the
wing fighting each other that is a very awkward.
Can this fight I speak of overload the wing in the middle and break it?
Can this fight I speak set up for flutter and break it?
Can this fight I speak of set up flutter in the ailerons?
Will the flaps flutter and depart?
will the flaps overload the attachments and depart?
Don't know exact, but the drag and lift bars double convinced that
exceeding max. flap down speed is not a good idea, evil begins full
hearted when you do.
Ron Parigoris
Message 8
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| Subject: | DOTH Panshanger Sat 16th |
Hi Folks,
If the weather forecasters are to be believed, the rain should clear
through leaving a pretty good day tomorrow ( Sat 16th ), so I propose
a DOTH to Panshanger. Good cafe, voucher in Flyer, PPR, 1200ish.
Cheers, Paddy
Paddy Clarke
Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM
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