---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/15/06: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:07 AM - Re: Vne Speed (David Joyce) 2. 03:32 AM - Re: Vne Speed (nigel charles) 3. 04:02 AM - Re: (ctsmallwood) 4. 05:19 AM - William Mills (Paddy Clarke) 5. 08:36 AM - Re: Vne Speed (William Daniell) 6. 09:46 AM - Re: Vne Speed (Rob Housman) 7. 10:34 AM - Re: Vne Speed () 8. 12:49 PM - DOTH Panshanger Sat 16th (Paddy Clarke) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:07:04 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vne Speed Ron, In Don Dykin's booklet about Europa aerodynamics he says that the flaps take just about half of the plane's weight at top flap speed. With aerodynamic forces increasing with speed squared I wouldn't want to rely on the flaps not failing before the wings, which have been tested to 10g after all! Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:49 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vne Speed > > As far ab breaking a Europa in flight: > > My partner designed a short wing Europa in X-Plane. > > One thing that was a real eye opener was looking at stress lines seeing > just how much the tips of the wings get loaded negative (large twist > forces) with the flaps down if you go not much faster than flap limit > speed. > > My bet is the wing would fail and the flaps would be in perfect shape. > > Ron Parigoris > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:32:26 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vne Speed >In Don Dykin's booklet about Europa aerodynamics he says that the flaps take just about half of the plane's weight at top flap speed. With aerodynamic forces increasing with speed squared I wouldn't want to rely on the flaps not failing before the wings, which have been tested to 10g after all!< I assume that this statement is with the flaps extended. One presumes that the load taken by the flaps is much less when they are retracted. Nigel Charles ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:02:36 AM PST US From: "ctsmallwood" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Thanks Nigel for info for VSWR meter Regards Colin Smallwood ----- Original Message ----- From: nigel charles To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:14 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: If you are a member of the Europa Club you can borrow a VSWR meter from the club. Nigel Charles -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ctsmallwood Sent: 14 December 2006 11:34 To: europa list Subject: Europa-List: Hi All 2 points please Anyone in the Leicester area, with a Mono, Help please The guy who built my trailer for ( Tri- G-DEBR) is building one for a Scottish Mono owner ( fully covered) and he would like to check a Mono out. I am looking to Borrow a VSWR meter to check my Europa ariel I will organize if anyone can help Please contact ctsmallwood@onetel.com Tel. 01773 570329 108 Heage Rd Ripley Derby DE53GH -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the Contribution link below to find out more about this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by: * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com * Aeroware Enterprises www.kitlog.com * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com List Contribution Web Site --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - The Europa-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:33 AM PST US From: Paddy Clarke Subject: Europa-List: William Mills Hi All, If anyone is trying to get in touch with William Mills, his 'phone line has been down for best part of a week now - so he has had no internet connection. ( Tho' he can be reached on his landline number as calls are being diverted ). The earliest he will be back on is Monday. Cheers, Paddy Paddy Clarke Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:48 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vne Speed Someone also told me that the Vne sometimes has to do with elevator effectiveness - that is to say that above a given speed the elevator ceases to work... Anyone else heard this is it BS. Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel charles Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 06:31 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vne Speed >In Don Dykin's booklet about Europa aerodynamics he says that the flaps take just about half of the plane's weight at top flap speed. With aerodynamic forces increasing with speed squared I wouldn't want to rely on the flaps not failing before the wings, which have been tested to 10g after all!< I assume that this statement is with the flaps extended. One presumes that the load taken by the flaps is much less when they are retracted. Nigel Charles ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:43 AM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vne Speed It's not BS. For a detailed discussion on the subject see http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/flutter.html and scroll down to "control reversal." Generally this is not a factor below around Mach 0.3 (OK, that's about 200 KIAS). Best regards, Rob Housman A070 Airframe complete Irvine, CA -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 8:35 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vne Speed Someone also told me that the Vne sometimes has to do with elevator effectiveness - that is to say that above a given speed the elevator ceases to work... Anyone else heard this is it BS. Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel charles Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 06:31 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vne Speed >In Don Dykin's booklet about Europa aerodynamics he says that the flaps take just about half of the plane's weight at top flap speed. With aerodynamic forces increasing with speed squared I wouldn't want to rely on the flaps not failing before the wings, which have been tested to 10g after all!< I assume that this statement is with the flaps extended. One presumes that the load taken by the flaps is much less when they are retracted. Nigel Charles ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:34:01 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vne Speed From: Hello David "In Don Dykin's booklet about Europa aerodynamics he says that the flaps take just about half of the plane's weight at top flap speed. With aerodynamic forces increasing with speed squared I wouldn't want to rely on the flaps not failing before the wings, which have been tested to 10g after all!" Were the XS short wings really tested and held up to 10 Gs, or was it closer to 6 before failure? I think the glider wings are stronger, and perhaps 10 on them? What I was getting at, is with flaps down you have a wing that kinda sorta has 30 degrees washout. Go much faster than max flap extension speed and the tips are pushing through at a negative angle of attack, and the area near flaps at a positive angle of attack. The net needs to be enough to keep the plane in the air. There is this twisting and each half of the wing fighting each other that is a very awkward. Can this fight I speak of overload the wing in the middle and break it? Can this fight I speak set up for flutter and break it? Can this fight I speak of set up flutter in the ailerons? Will the flaps flutter and depart? will the flaps overload the attachments and depart? Don't know exact, but the drag and lift bars double convinced that exceeding max. flap down speed is not a good idea, evil begins full hearted when you do. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:49:45 PM PST US From: Paddy Clarke Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Panshanger Sat 16th Hi Folks, If the weather forecasters are to be believed, the rain should clear through leaving a pretty good day tomorrow ( Sat 16th ), so I propose a DOTH to Panshanger. Good cafe, voucher in Flyer, PPR, 1200ish. Cheers, Paddy Paddy Clarke Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.