Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:36 AM - Re: Lockwood 9xx Class (rlborger)
2. 05:54 AM - Re: Vne Speed / Wing Load Test (UVTReith@aol.com)
3. 06:38 AM - Re: Lockwood 9xx Class (Gilles Thesee)
4. 07:44 AM - Re: Vne Speed / Wing Load Test (William Daniell)
5. 09:49 AM - Re: Vne Speed / Wing Load Test (NevEyre@aol.com)
6. 04:27 PM - Ground Plane (AlStills)
7. 04:52 PM - Re: Ground Plane (Graham Singleton)
8. 05:50 PM - Re: Ground Plane (SPurpura@aol.com)
9. 06:45 PM - Re: Ground Plane (Michael Grass)
10. 07:40 PM - Re: Ground Plane (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Lockwood 9xx Class |
Gilles,
Funny you should ask... I've gone back through my notes and the
answer is unclear. I think I remember the correct answer, but I do
not want to provide anymore incorrect information on the subject of
Rotax engines.
Let me confirm the answer on Monday and I'll post it as soon as I can.
BTW, if you want to see one of the possible consequences of someone
turning your prop backwards, go to:
http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?
set_albumName=album191&id=DSCN5102&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&in
clude=view_photo.php
Or, if that URL becomes scrambled in the transmission, go to:
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
Click on the Lockwood School album
Click on Pic #14
> Has your engine ever been turned backwards (A BIG NO-NO)? How can you
> tell if it has and what should you do about it? What happens if it
> has been turned backwards and you don't do the right thing? Clue:
> It's ugly and expensive.
>
Bob,
Please, how do you tell if it has ?
Thanks,
Regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
More pics will be posted today (2006 12 17) and some additional text
added this evening.
Good building and great flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
(85%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch
system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in,
Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar
in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Flaps & Main Gear
complete. Working in - 24 Instrument Panel, 25 Electrical, 30 Fuel
System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing. Airmaster
arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. E04 interior kit
has arrived. Preparing for ROTAX 914 installation.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Vne Speed / Wing Load Test |
Wing Load Test
We use the jacks with a wooden bar and something soft on top to spread the
load, when putting the cement bags (25 kg each) on the wings. Than we lower the
jacks, so that the wings are free and measure the movement of the wing tips.
Lift up the jacks again for supporting, put more load on the wings, lower
the jacks again and so on.
Bruno Reith / Mono 379
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Lockwood 9xx Class |
> Let me confirm the answer on Monday and I'll post it as soon as I can.
>
> BTW, if you want to see one of the possible consequences of someone
> turning your prop backwards,
Bob,
Thank you for responding.
Knowing how to tell if the prop has been turned backwards is important,
as anyone can turn it while we're away from the hangar. We put a sign on
the prop "do not turn backwards".
Great pictures on your gallery.
Regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 4
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Subject: | Vne Speed / Wing Load Test |
How do you support the fuselage in the middle?
Will
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
UVTReith@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 08:54
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vne Speed / Wing Load Test
Wing Load Test
We use the jacks with a wooden bar and something soft on top to spread the
load, when putting the cement bags (25 kg each) on the wings. Than we lower
the jacks, so that the wings are free and measure the movement of the wing
tips.
Lift up the jacks again for supporting, put more load on the wings, lower
the jacks again and so on.
Bruno Reith / Mono 379
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Vne Speed / Wing Load Test |
Hi All,
Casting my memory back some ten years ago.... to the testing we [Europa] did
on the XS wings.... went something like this...
First we built a steel jig to hold a single wing on, so that it was
inverted, and tilted leading edge down , to simulate it flying normal way up /
leading edge up [ worst case load is positive angle of attack, I forget the exact
angle,] wing was fixed with the normal [ at that time] non pip pin spar pins,
and the rigid drag pin sockets....... steel weights [10Kg & 5Kg] were then
placed on the lower skin, with a carpet underlay to give a non slip surface,
to a pre-determined plan to ultimately go past something like 12G.
We supported the wing with a scafold tower arrangement whilst we were adding
to the weights, going up in increments of ''G's'', taking away the support
at each stage to measure deflection and twist, so rather than the required
time [for the P.F.A.] unsupported of about 3 seconds, the wing was under load
each time for probably a couple of minutes.......It got to something like 7G
[at 1370 lbs AUW] the first try, before the tang of the spar ''walked off'' the
spar pin and dumped the 3000 or so lbs of weight onto my workshop floor.
[Hence my previous posting to the forum about leaving off the pip pin style spar
pin in the port seatback bush?]
Wing / spar undamaged, but rib/ lift & drag pin plates ripped.
It was then decided to test wings in pairs, fitted to a fuselage, so a
fuselage was set up on a pedestal, supported by the seat pan / seatback / baggage
bay areas, in the same nose down / inverted stance. The height was set to
allow spanwise deflection of the wings [ so the door sills were about 6' off the
ground ] A strap was fitted to the port spar, in an attempt to contain the
''walking'' of the spars aft, and the swivel drag sockets and the ''tie bar''
were added. Loading [both wings together] went as planned, we were watching
the spars through access holes cut in the fuselage, the wings passed the test[
forget the figure, something like 9.8] but it was obvious the spar strap was
under stress. At this time, Francis Donaldson, and John Tempest [AKA Billy
Bunter] of the P.F.A. wanted to see another test [I am still convinced for
their own curiousity, rather than any truly technical reason] So we sourced and
fitted the pip pins [as supplied in the XS kit nowadays] and did the test
again. No problems, the pip pins were containing the aft movement of the spar
tang. We kept going with the test, again, I can't recall the exact figure we
went to, past 11G, I recall , when the wood core in the spar [between the two
pin bushings] ruptured, and let the rovings in the spars twist over [ top cap
to the bottom / bottom to the top] and something like 7000 lbs went on the
floor this time. The spar cap rovings returned to their original positions, no
visible damage, just the core was ruptured. So.... we picked up the weights,
had a coffee or two, and started to reload the wings, and got to more than 3G
before the spar cap rovings swapped place again.... so you can break the
wing at + 12G, unload and it will return to position, and as long as you keep
below 3G, fly yourself home. From memory, we did 3 sets of wings in during
testing,[ P.F.A. kept moving the ''goal posts''.] All tests gave similar results.
Years later, I managed to catch Francis off guard, asking what R.V. had to
do to clear the RV10 to fly in the U.K ? His answer? Supply the paperwork to
support the stress calculations... and have a couple of them flying.......
when I enquired why Europa had to test 3 sets of XS wings, and dance through
even more silly tests to get the MG wings cleared for over here [ when there
were two allready flying in the U.S.A.] He went an embarrasing shade of
red.... no answer then ? [The MG wings have been tested on the same single wing
test rig [ beefed up, as we broke the rig itself the first time] to a much
higher G load than the XS wings. You will not break either sets of wings. .
re the VNE testing, Pete Clark did that, very carefully, increasing in
small increments, at high altitude with a parachute..... well past the limit...
but don't push YOUR luck in YOUR plane?
Cheers, Nev.
Message 6
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Hi all,
I've been having a little problem with ATC reading my transponder all the
time. I suspect a bit of shadowing.. I have the 2 1/2"-3" transponder
antenna mounted
upside down on a shelf on the rear corner of the baggage bay. I have a 6"
steel ground plane mounted to the antenna. What size ground plane have
others used
successfully and where is your antenna mounted. ATC reads me better out of
KGEU with a feed from Luke AFB while KDVT (where I'm hangered) gets their
feed
from Phoenix Sky Harbor airport. By far KDVT is worse than KGEU. I know
there is difference in the feed from the different radars but need to get
rid of most of the
shadowing if possible. Sure would make me more presentable to the guys at
KDVT. (One of the busiest GA ariports in the nation)
Have about 8 hrs on the plane now and the grin is still in place. Gets even
bigger the more I fly!
Al Stills
N625AZ
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Ground Plane |
Al
the best place might be up on the roof, upside down. Nothing much to
shadow it up there? Your ground plane sounds OK but a halfwave dipole is
better, Bob Archer makes a heat one. Gives a flatter distribution pattern
Graham
AlStills wrote:
>
>Hi all,
>I've been having a little problem with ATC reading my transponder all the
>time. I suspect a bit of shadowing.. I have the 2 1/2"-3" transponder
>antenna mounted
>upside down on a shelf on the rear corner of the baggage bay. I have a 6"
>steel ground plane mounted to the antenna. What size ground plane have
>others used
>
>Al Stills
>N625AZ
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Ground Plane |
TRY IT WITHOUT THE GROND PLANE,MY BOB ARCER HAS NONE.
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Ground Plane |
Very bad advise!!!
The Bob Archer Antenna is a "dipole" antenna and is similar in design as
your Com antenna if built like suggested in the Europa manual. The 2 1/2
inch antenna is a monopole antenna and needs a ground plane of either
51/2 inch diameter or at least 27 inch or greater. Everything between or
smaller is bad.
I would be concerned about all metal within the close proximity of the
antenna. I am thinking of fuel lines, flap actuator, hard point out of
metal in the fuselage etc.. You should be fine if you keep any metal
pieces (could be even a length of your AWG24 wire) of the size of 21/2
inches or greater at least 6 inches away. The ideal ground plane is any
metal circular in shape with 5 1/2 inch diameter and the monopole
antenna sticking through the hole and points downwards. You have to have
a very low resistance between the outer part of your BNC connector and
the ground plane.
Hope that helps.
Michael Grass
A266 Trigear
Detroit Michigan
----- Original Message -----
From: SPurpura@aol.com
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ground Plane
TRY IT WITHOUT THE GROND PLANE,MY BOB ARCER HAS NONE.
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Ground Plane |
Al-
I have mine installed but have not used it yet. I think you are going to be much
better off with a vertical dipole in the Europa than a ground plane. The Archer
antenna the others spoke about is a vertical dipole. Mine is fastened to
a piece of balsa wood that is fitted to the contour of the fuselage on the port
side as far aft as possible. It is just about opposite the inspection port
in the root of the rudder. I'll let you know how it works in a year or so.
Jim Puglise - A-283
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "AlStills" <astills@cox.net>
>
> Hi all,
> I've been having a little problem with ATC reading my transponder all the
> time. I suspect a bit of shadowing.. I have the 2 1/2"-3" transponder
> antenna mounted
> upside down on a shelf on the rear corner of the baggage bay. I have a 6"
> steel ground plane mounted to the antenna. What size ground plane have
> others used
> successfully and where is your antenna mounted. ATC reads me better out of
> KGEU with a feed from Luke AFB while KDVT (where I'm hangered) gets their
> feed
> from Phoenix Sky Harbor airport. By far KDVT is worse than KGEU. I know
> there is difference in the feed from the different radars but need to get
> rid of most of the
> shadowing if possible. Sure would make me more presentable to the guys at
> KDVT. (One of the busiest GA ariports in the nation)
> Have about 8 hrs on the plane now and the grin is still in place. Gets even
> bigger the more I fly!
>
> Al Stills
> N625AZ
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Al-</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have mine installed but have not used it yet. I think you are going
to be much better off with a vertical dipole in the Europa than a ground plane.
The Archer antenna the others spoke about is a vertical dipole.
Mine is fastened to a piece of balsa wood that is fitted to the contour
of the fuselage on the port side as far aft as possible. It is
just about opposite the inspection port in the root of the rudder. I'll
let you know how it works in a year or so.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jim Puglise - A-283 </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "AlStills" <astills@cox.net>
<BR><BR>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "AlStills"
<ASTILLS@COX.NET><BR>> <BR>> Hi all, <BR>> I've been having a
little problem with ATC reading my transponder all the <BR>> time. I suspect
a bit of shadowing.. I have the 2 1/2"-3" transponder <BR>> antenna mounted
<BR>> upside down on a shelf on the rear corner of the baggage bay. I have
a 6" <BR>> steel ground plane mounted to the antenna. What size ground plane
have <BR>> others used <BR>> successfully and where is your antenna
mounted. ATC reads me better out of <BR>> KGEU with a feed from Luke AFB while
KDVT (where I'm hangered) gets their <BR>> feed <BR>> from Phoenix
Sky Harbor airport. By far KDVT is worse than KGEU. I know <BR>> there is difference
in the feed from the different radars but n
eed to
R>>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
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