---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/08/07: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:49 AM - Europa flotation in the event of ditching (nigel charles) 2. 03:56 AM - Re: Europa's floating in the sea (David Joyce) 3. 05:29 AM - Europa Items for sale (flyingphil2) 4. 06:35 AM - Re: Europa Items for sale () 5. 07:52 AM - Airmaster Prop (AlStills) 6. 08:41 AM - Re: Europa Items for sale (Alan Burrows) 7. 09:23 AM - Re: Airmaster Prop () 8. 10:06 AM - Re: Airmaster Prop (AlStills) 9. 10:37 AM - Bigger, faster (Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com) 10. 10:40 AM - Europa Mono Enclosed Trailer for Sale (Gillian and Charlie Laverty) 11. 11:16 AM - Re: Airmaster Prop (R.C.Harrison) 12. 11:53 AM - Re: Europa Items for sale (flyingphil2) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:49:40 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: Europa-List: Europa flotation in the event of ditching My Europa is a Classic so has adequate foam for flotation provided the wings remain attached after a ditching. One option for XS owners is to include polystyrene pellets (like that used in packaging) within the unused voids in the wing. These weigh next to nothing and would provide significant buoyancy. A floating aircraft after a ditching is a useful survival aid. It helps provide both protection and location which are the two most important aids to survival. However even when floating the aircraft may or may not provide significant protection depending on sea conditions and final attitude of the aircraft. Back in 1995 a colleague of mine nearly lost his life in the English Channel when his liferaft didn't work after his aircraft sunk. He was only in the water 35 minutes but it took 2 days in hospital to overcome the hypothermia. It was estimated that he would have only lasted a about a further 20 minutes and this was at one of the warmest times of year for water temperature. Having done sea survival training I am firmly convinced that dry suits are the best safety aid along with a PLB. Even in hot summer conditions they are not uncomfortable to wear. Flying at higher altitudes with vents open and the suit partially unzipped ensures adequate comfort levels. Nigel Charles -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison Sent: 07 January 2007 16:46 Subject: RE: Europa-List: 2002 Europa XS Mono Wheel for Sale Hi! Bob I'd expect the Classic foam wings to float but no chance of the XS floating! There was one once floated that ditched off Alderney until they recovered it by towing it the wrong way then had to tow it the opposite way (can't remember which way but I think it was successfully towed forwards?) perhaps someone can confirm ? It could be a useful bit of information to have stored one day ! Regards Bob Harrison -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Hitchcock Sent: 07 January 2007 09:50 Subject: Re: Europa-List: 2002 Europa XS Mono Wheel for Sale It definitely does float then? Two quality life-jackets, no life raft.............. Regards Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Singleton" Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 5:16 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: 2002 Europa XS Mono Wheel for Sale > > > RV7 ? > Would it be possible to cross the Atlantic or the Pacific with an RV7 and > would it float if the fan stopped? Cost of gas when Putin has it all? > Graham > > Garry wrote: > >> Steve, >> Jim Nelson, Jim Brown, Marvin Alvarez, myself and many other early Europa >> builders have chosen to go with Vans RV-7's. Contact me off list for >> details. I still have my Europa and still love it though. >> Garry Stout >> 914 Trigear >> >>* >>* >> > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:56:52 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa's floating in the sea Bob, All the wing spaces are ventilated along with the rear fuselage so it seems to me that it would only be a matter of time before those sections of an XS filled. Having said that, the amount of foam in tail plane and control bits, and fuselage skin + air in the tyre and fuel tank (if you had run low on fuel) just might be enough to keep it up! Fuel tank buoyancy would be roughly equal to engine weight, but I have no idea of what the overall density of the non metallic bits of the structure would be. Perhaps some inflatable air bladders in the front section of the wings would do the job. Regards, David Joyce G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Hitchcock" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:09 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa's floating in the sea > > The idea that a Europa can float is brilliant! For channel crossings I have > life jackets and McMurdo. Unfortunately the weight penalty of a life-raft is > rather great. (912 Europa trike) > > Regards > > Bob > > GBWON > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "R.C.Harrison" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:45 PM > Subject: RE: Europa-List: 2002 Europa XS Mono Wheel for Sale > > > > > > Hi! Bob > > I'd expect the Classic foam wings to float but no chance of the XS > > floating! > > There was one once floated that ditched off Alderney until they > > recovered it by towing it the wrong way then had to tow it the opposite > > way (can't remember which way but I think it was successfully towed > > forwards?) perhaps someone can confirm ? It could be a useful bit of > > information to have stored one day ! > > Regards > > Bob Harrison > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob > > Hitchcock > > Sent: 07 January 2007 09:50 > > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: 2002 Europa XS Mono Wheel for Sale > > > > > > > > It definitely does float then? Two quality life-jackets, no life > > raft.............. > > > > > > Regards > > > > Bob > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Graham Singleton" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 5:16 PM > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: 2002 Europa XS Mono Wheel for Sale > > > > > >> > >> > >> RV7 ? > >> Would it be possible to cross the Atlantic or the Pacific with an RV7 > > and > >> would it float if the fan stopped? Cost of gas when Putin has it all? > >> Graham > >> > >> Garry wrote: > >> > >>> Steve, > >>> Jim Nelson, Jim Brown, Marvin Alvarez, myself and many other early > > Europa > >>> builders have chosen to go with Vans RV-7's. Contact me off list for > > > >>> details. I still have my Europa and still love it though. > >>> Garry Stout > >>> 914 Trigear > >>> > >>>* > >>>* > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:18 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Europa Items for sale From: "flyingphil2" Hi, I have the following items for sale. The prices are based on what I have seen on this list before but I will consider offers. I've written the new price below each item. Windscreen Salvaged from wreck but removed from frame and completely undamaged. Polished up with scratch remover to remove light scratches. Very good condition. 100 (New price: 144+VAT) 2 x Door with Glass (Port & Starboard) Salvaged from wreck but both undamaged and with glass attached. Side glass polished up with scratch remover to remove light scratches. Very good condition. 300 (total for both) (New price for glass alone: 144+VAT) 2 x Door Gas Strut Used but in very good condition. 30 (total for both) (New price = 2 x 31 +VAT) Vibrating Structure Gyroscope. New and unused. See my ad in 'Items for Sale'. Open to offers on this one but the new price is 642+VAT. Thanks for looking. If you are interested then please send me a private message. Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:14 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Items for sale > Hi, > I have the following items for sale. The prices are based on what I have > seen on this list before but I will consider offers. > I've written the new price below each item. > > Windscreen > Salvaged from wreck but remo....... You may be interested in advertising on http://harley.geog.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa/ads/ Cheers, Mark. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:58 AM PST US From: "AlStills" Subject: Europa-List: Airmaster Prop I'm getting ready to place my Airmaster Prop on my Jabiru engine as the temps have settled down during brake in and need to know if anyone has any information about where the prop should be installed in relation to the engine TDC. The airmaster manuel doesn't say and neither does Jabiru. I would think the #1 blade should be st at #1 cylinder at TDC but am not sure. Anyone with experience would help. Al Stills N625AZ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:50 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Items for sale What colour is the glass ? -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyingphil2 Sent: 08 January 2007 13:28 Subject: Europa-List: Europa Items for sale Hi, I have the following items for sale. The prices are based on what I have seen on this list before but I will consider offers. I've written the new price below each item. Windscreen Salvaged from wreck but removed from frame and completely undamaged. Polished up with scratch remover to remove light scratches. Very good condition. 100 (New price: 144+VAT) 2 x Door with Glass (Port & Starboard) Salvaged from wreck but both undamaged and with glass attached. Side glass polished up with scratch remover to remove light scratches. Very good condition. 300 (total for both) (New price for glass alone: 144+VAT) 2 x Door Gas Strut Used but in very good condition. 30 (total for both) (New price = 2 x 31 +VAT) Vibrating Structure Gyroscope. New and unused. See my ad in 'Items for Sale'. Open to offers on this one but the new price is 642+VAT. Thanks for looking. If you are interested then please send me a private message. Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org -- 18:29 -- 18:29 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:02 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Airmaster Prop Hi Al, I saw this message. We have recently bought a Europa XS trigear with Jabiru 330 engine and Warp drive ground adjustable prop. It has some fancy ducting to pass air over the cylinders It has done only 60 hrs since new. On the ground, the rear 4 cylinders rapidly climb to the max of 175 degrees C so unless you are at a very quiet aerodrome and don't ever have to wait for departure, the engine overheats. It seems that the main reason for this is that the front nacelles don't really get any air from the prop because of the size of the spinner and blade roots. As our prop uses the same blades as the Airmaster, I wonder if you will get sufficient cooling. What prop do you use at the moment? Thanks Brian G-BYFG ----- Original Message ----- From: "AlStills" Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 3:50 PM Subject: Europa-List: Airmaster Prop > > I'm getting ready to place my Airmaster Prop on my Jabiru engine as the > temps have settled down during brake in and need to know if anyone has any > information > about where the prop should be installed in relation to the engine TDC. The > airmaster manuel doesn't say and neither does Jabiru. I would think the #1 > blade should > be st at #1 cylinder at TDC but am not sure. Anyone with experience would > help. > > Al Stills > N625AZ > > > -- 19:47 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:06:23 AM PST US From: "AlStills" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Airmaster Prop Brian, I have had the Arimaster installed during the summer here in the desert and could not keep cool on the ground so I changed to the wood Jabiru prop for brake in. 60x48. Keeps cool with that prop. The engine has settled in now and am changing back to Airmaster. I should be able to keep cool on the ground during winter temps. Yes the blade roots are way out on the Airmaster (8" from center) but there are Jabiru's flying with them. Just have to limit gound travel when possible. The ram air ducts come with the Jabiru engine and have to be tweeked to get the air right in them. I had to baffel the front of the intake up onto the front cylinders a small amount and put a dam (Approx 3/4") in the top of one between #4 & 6 to get the air moving right. Also had to dam the very back of the duct up as too much air was then moving over the rear of the cylinders. They are pretty much even in CHT's now and settling down very well. I have 19 hrs on the engine so far and CHT's are settling to approx 325 Deg's F in cruise. I 'm at about a max of 295 during taxi and in the low 370's on climb out. I have no doubt the Airmaster will work, just have to baby it on the ground. It remains to be seen what will happen during the hot summers here in Arizona Just a note...in running my airmaster during the summer, after I tweeked the baffeling, I was able to cool down while sitting at idle. Hope this helps Al Stills N625AZ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:37:44 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Bigger, faster From: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com I have to agree that bigger and faster is nice, but on a 100 mile hamburger trip, the time saving would be about 7 minutes each way, and with the increased fuel consumption plus Avgas vs Mogas, the round trip would cost about $30 more. Not Knocking anyone's choice of airplane, I've only flown one RV, a 6 and I thought it was a nice, solid flying plane, but noisy. Looking at the new light RV12, the configuration is a bit Europa-ish. Dave A061 do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:28 AM PST US From: "Gillian and Charlie Laverty" Subject: Europa-List: Europa Mono Enclosed Trailer for Sale Hi all. As my mono wheel G-CLAV 912 is now a trigear, I have for sale a Schofield enclosed mono trailer with load-unload system . The trailer is currently located in North Yorkshire. The price is =A32400 ono . Please e-mail to bb@baliscate.freeserve.co.uk or phone 01688 301264 . Charlie Laverty Charlie Laverty & Gillian King Forest Bank, 19 Argyll Terrace, Tobermory PA75 6PB To ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:23 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Airmaster Prop Hi! Alan Somewhere I posted a message from MT Propellers on this positioning issue. If you do a search you should find it, presuming Yahoo to a storage system. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AlStills Sent: 08 January 2007 15:51 Subject: Europa-List: Airmaster Prop I'm getting ready to place my Airmaster Prop on my Jabiru engine as the temps have settled down during brake in and need to know if anyone has any information about where the prop should be installed in relation to the engine TDC. The airmaster manuel doesn't say and neither does Jabiru. I would think the #1 blade should be st at #1 cylinder at TDC but am not sure. Anyone with experience would help. Al Stills N625AZ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:55 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Items for sale From: "flyingphil2" Hi, Both the windscreen and doors are brown tint. Thanks. 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