Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:13 AM - Rotax 914 (Gert Dalgaard)
2. 08:48 AM - Re: 2002 Europa XS Mono Wheel for Sale (Fred Klein)
3. 10:46 AM - Rivets (Fergus Kyle)
4. 10:50 AM - Re: 2002 Europa XS Mono Wheel for Sale (nigel charles)
5. 12:21 PM - Buoyancy (Richard Holder)
6. 03:08 PM - was XS mono for sale ...now bouyancy of classic Europas! (R.C.Harrison)
7. 03:08 PM - Re: Rivets (Ralph Hallett)
8. 03:52 PM - Re: was XS mono for sale ...now bouyancy of classic Europas! (NevEyre@aol.com)
9. 08:21 PM - Re: bouyancy (Fred Klein)
Message 1
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I have the problem that the springs intended to pull the bowden-
cables on the throttle ( - carburettor) seems to become rather tired
over the years.
My cables are both OK and well greased and I think it will be easier
to change the springs with more powerful examples rather than to
change cables.
Anybody experienced that problem and can recommend a shop for another
spring?
Gert
Gert Dalgaard Soerensen
Stabelvej 9, Haarby
DK 8660 Skanderborg
Denmark
Europa builder No. 151
Europa Mono / Rotax 914
AC reg.: OY-GDS
Phone.: +45 8695 0595
E mail: lgds@post6.tele.dk
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 2002 Europa XS Mono Wheel for Sale |
This thread (previously "2002 Europa XS Mono Wheel for Sale) on a
Europa's buoyancy intrigues a pilot who lives on an island and expects
his XS to fly over water frequently...enough so to consider the
possibility of injecting (non-expanding) foam into the voids forward of
the wing spar.
I will do some research w/ a specialty insulation contractor who has
the equipment to do such a thing and report back.
Any initial comments?
Fred
A194
On Tuesday, January 9, 2007, at 01:55 PM, ivor.phillips wrote:
> <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
>
> It was a Grob Motor glider!
> http://www.sarangan.org/europa_forum/1996-09/msg00139.html
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Duncan &
> Ami
> McFadyean
> Sent: 09 January 2007 20:01
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: 2002 Europa XS Mono Wheel for Sale
>
> <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> <<they recovered it by towing it the wrong way>>
>
> That may have been a Katana.
> It had the flaps down when it was towed the wrong way, which removed
> the
> flaps!
>
> I guess the Classic would float until such time as the hollowed out
> foam
> cores had flooded. The weight of the engine would probably result in
> the a/c
>
> floating nose down with the tail out of the water; so no buoyancy
> contribution from that.
>
> A Cessna 152 takes 17 minutes to sink (i.e. for all of the trapped air
> to
> escape).
>
> Duncan McF.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:45 PM
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: 2002 Europa XS Mono Wheel for Sale
>
>
>> <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
>>
>> Hi! Bob
>> I'd expect the Classic foam wings to float but no chance of the XS
>> floating!
>> There was one once floated that ditched off Alderney until they
>> recovered it by towing it the wrong way then had to tow it the
>> opposite
>> way (can't remember which way but I think it was successfully towed
>> forwards?) perhaps someone can confirm ? It could be a useful bit of
>> information to have stored one day !
>> Regards
>> Bob Harrison
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
>> Hitchcock
>> Sent: 07 January 2007 09:50
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: 2002 Europa XS Mono Wheel for Sale
>>
>> <robert.hitchcock@virgin.net>
>>
>> It definitely does float then? Two quality life-jackets, no life
>> raft..............
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Bob
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Graham Singleton" <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 5:16 PM
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: 2002 Europa XS Mono Wheel for Sale
>>
>>
>>> <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>>>
>>> RV7 ?
>>> Would it be possible to cross the Atlantic or the Pacific with an RV7
>> and
>>> would it float if the fan stopped? Cost of gas when Putin has it all?
>>> Graham
>>>
>>> Garry wrote:
>>>
>>>> Steve,
>>>> Jim Nelson, Jim Brown, Marvin Alvarez, myself and many other early
>> Europa
>>>> builders have chosen to go with Vans RV-7's. Contact me off list
>>>> for
>>
>>>> details. I still have my Europa and still love it though.
>>>> Garry Stout
>>>> 914 Trigear
>>>>
>>>> *
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
Message 3
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Cheers for 2007,
In my hunt for 3/32" rivets of various lengths, I found almost
everyone can provide 1/8" sorts but none smaller. The kit was issued with a
plastic bag marked TAPK 336 which infers 6/16ths long but they were in fact
5/16s at best.
The 3/32" units are the ideal for many an anchor nut and other small
tasks and are thus invaluable.
I contacted D and D Aircraft Supply at:
Sales: 1(800) 468-8000 (USA)
Phone: 1(603) 926-8881
Fax: 1(603) 926-7855
Email: info@ddaircraft.com
and the agent answering told me she had 3/32" aluminum countersunk pop
rivets from 3/16 to 1/2 inches long, by the pound [3000] of which the least
size is 1/8 lb. for about $4.
I thought you should know.
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
Message 4
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| Subject: | 2002 Europa XS Mono Wheel for Sale |
>I guess the Classic would float until such time as the hollowed out
foam
cores had flooded.<
I still think there would be enough buoyancy in the solid foam parts to
keep the aircraft afloat after the voids have flooded. Remember the
inboard sections are solid foam anyway.
Nigel Charles
Message 5
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Remember there are two types of foam. Closed cell and open
cell.
Closed cell contains individual bubbles which are closed.
This type will not absorb water.
Open cell is really a network of foam which has air space
inside it which is contiguous. This type does absorb
water. Most sponges are open cell.
I have no idea which the Europa blue foam is.
It is dark and rainy so I won't go out to my shed and look
tonight !
Richard Holder
G-OWWW
Message 6
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| Subject: | was XS mono for sale ...now bouyancy of classic Europas! |
Hi! Nigel /all ......for info.....
I can confirm that I just did a 3 hour submersion test, in tap water, of
a piece of foam cut by a wood saw of the type used in the control
surfaces and the "classic" wings and it did not become waterlogged and
when released it floated on the meniscus of the water as it did prior to
the test.
I would expect that, apart from the implications of osmosis, this would
prevail for sea water too.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel
charles
Sent: 10 January 2007 18:50
Subject: RE: Europa-List: 2002 Europa XS Mono Wheel for Sale
>I guess the Classic would float until such time as the hollowed out
foam
cores had flooded.<
I still think there would be enough buoyancy in the solid foam parts to
keep the aircraft afloat after the voids have flooded. Remember the
inboard sections are solid foam anyway.
Nigel Charles
Message 7
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Fergus,
Thanks very much for your post! I've been trying to rivet the anchor
nuts for the lower cowling and need much longer 3/32 rivets to do the job.
Thanks again!
Ralph
Reno,NV
Fergus Kyle wrote:
>
> Cheers for 2007,
> In my hunt for 3/32" rivets of various lengths, I found almost
> everyone can provide 1/8" sorts but none smaller. The kit was issued with a
> plastic bag marked TAPK 336 which infers 6/16ths long but they were in fact
> 5/16s at best.
> The 3/32" units are the ideal for many an anchor nut and other small
> tasks and are thus invaluable.
> I contacted D and D Aircraft Supply at:
> Sales: 1(800) 468-8000 (USA)
> Phone: 1(603) 926-8881
> Fax: 1(603) 926-7855
> Email: info@ddaircraft.com
> and the agent answering told me she had 3/32" aluminum countersunk pop
> rivets from 3/16 to 1/2 inches long, by the pound [3000] of which the least
> size is 1/8 lb. for about $4.
> I thought you should know.
>
> Ferg Kyle
> Europa A064 914 Classic
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: was XS mono for sale ...now bouyancy of classic Europas! |
Hi Bob / All.
The blue foam is pretty well closed cell, the type that is definately closed
cell is coloured orange, and sold as ''Flotation Billet'' as opposed to
''Insulation Billet of the blue, as used in the Europa.
The blue will not pick up too much water unless immersed at great depth,
where the pressure will force the water into the cells, so fine at sea level !
It weighs 2lb. cu.ft, and a cu.ft will support 60lbs in fresh water.
Most of the foams that are injected, are open cell, so will soak up water
like a sponge, the pour in types supplied to the marine trade for bouyancy are
very inconsistant in use, sometimes they tend to expand to ''open cell'',
which again will soak up water. [I have seen boats foamed with this ''TOUCAN''
foam that have absorbed so much water they barely floated]
The other problem with the ''pour in'' foams [ as opposed to the blow in,
injected types] is that the finnished volume can vary, you can never be sure
how far it will go. I have witnessed floors ripped from hulls. Temperature of
the two foam components. and the space being foamed will have an effect. The
warmer the foam and / or space, the further it will go.What can happen, is
that it fills a space entirely, and ''gells'',[ so cant escape from the vent
hole] then carries on expanding, with sometimes disasterous results.The power
of
foam expanding has to be seen to be believed! I have seen a Range Rover that
someone with a grievence had poured some of this two pack foam into, puffed
it out like a hedgehog, totally round by the time it had finnished!
A Classic, I am sure , will have more than enough volume of foam to stay
afloat indefinately, an XS will eventually fill up, but possibly ''lurk'' nose
down just below the surface.
Cheers,
Nev.
Message 9
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All,
Posted points are well taken...as I said, I intend to do some research
on the subject and will report back any information I gather...adding
foam may well be one of those seemingly simple notions which, upon
investigation, is fraught with peril.
Fred
On Wednesday, January 10, 2007, at 03:51 PM, NevEyre@aol.com wrote:
> Hi Bob / All.
> The blue foam is pretty well closed cell, the type that is definately
> closed cell is coloured orange, and sold as ''Flotation Billet'' as
> opposed to ''Insulation Billet of the blue, as used in the Europa.
> The blue-will not pick up too much water- unless immersed at great
> depth, where the pressure will force the water into the cells, so fine
> at sea level ! It weighs 2lb. cu.ft, and a cu.ft will support 60lbs in
> fresh water.
> Most of the foams that are injected, are open cell, so will soak up
> water like a sponge, the pour in types-supplied to the marine trade
> for bouyancy are very inconsistant in use, sometimes they tend to
> expand to ''open cell'', which again will soak up water. [I have seen
> boats foamed with this ''TOUCAN'' foam that have-absorbed so much
> water they barely floated]
> The other problem with the ''pour in'' foams [ as opposed to the blow
> in, injected types] is that-the finnished volume can vary, you can
> never be sure how far it will go. I have witnessed-floors ripped
from
> hulls. Temperature of the two foam components. and the space being
> foamed will have an effect. The warmer the foam and / or space, the
> further it will go.What can happen, is that it fills a space entirely,
> and ''gells'',[ so cant escape from the vent hole] then carries on
> expanding, with sometimes disasterous results.The power of foam
> expanding has to be seen to be believed! I have seen a Range Rover
> that someone with a grievence had-poured some of this two pack foam
> into, puffed it out like a hedgehog, totally round by the time it had
> finnished!
> A Classic, I am sure , will have more than enough volume of foam to
> stay afloat indefinately, an XS--will eventually fill up, but
possibly
> ''lurk'' nose down just below the surface.
> Cheers,
> Nev.
> --
>
>
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