Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:06 AM - Re: bouyancy (Graham Singleton)
2. 03:17 AM - Re: bouyancy (Roger Anderson)
3. 09:33 AM - Re: bouyancy (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
4. 10:38 AM - Re: bouyancy (Fred Klein)
5. 11:37 AM - Re: bouyancy (Trevpond@aol.com)
6. 11:34 PM - Fuel vent opening ideas wanted ()
Message 1
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Fred
as Neville suggests, there is probably enough foam in an XS to float the
engine. All you need to be sure is 2 cubic ft of blue foam, which you
could put in behind the wing spar.
You could estimate the amount of PVC foam, (about 5 lbs/cu ft,?) from
the wetted area of the aircraft. It's 3mm thick. You know the weight,
1370lbs.
Graham
Fred Klein wrote:
> All,
>
> Posted points are well taken...as I said, I intend to do some research
> on the subject and will report back any information I gather...adding
> foam may well be one of those seemingly simple notions which, upon
> investigation, is fraught with peril.
>
> Fred
>
> On Wednesday, January 10, 2007, at 03:51 PM, NevEyre@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi Bob / All.
> The blue foam is pretty well closed cell, the type that is
> definately closed cell is coloured orange, and sold as ''Flotation
> Billet'' as opposed to ''Insulation Billet of the blue, as used in
> the Europa.
> The blue will not pick up too much water unless immersed at great
> depth, where the pressure will force the water into the cells, so
> fine at sea level ! It weighs 2lb. cu.ft, and a cu.ft will support
> 60lbs in fresh water.
> Most of the foams that are injected, are open cell, so will soak
> up water like a sponge, the pour in types supplied to the marine
> trade for bouyancy are very inconsistant in use, sometimes they
> tend to expand to ''open cell'', which again will soak up water.
> [I have seen boats foamed with this ''TOUCAN'' foam that
> have absorbed so much water they barely floated]
> The other problem with the ''pour in'' foams [ as opposed to the
> blow in, injected types] is that the finnished volume can vary,
> you can never be sure how far it will go. I have witnessed floors
> ripped from hulls. Temperature of the two foam components. and the
> space being foamed will have an effect. The warmer the foam and /
> or space, the further it will go.What can happen, is that it fills
> a space entirely, and ''gells'',[ so cant escape from the vent
> hole] then carries on expanding, with sometimes disasterous
> results.The power of foam expanding has to be seen to be believed!
> I have seen a Range Rover that someone with a grievence had poured
> some of this two pack foam into, puffed it out like a hedgehog,
> totally round by the time it had finnished!
> A Classic, I am sure , will have more than enough volume of foam
> to stay afloat indefinately, an XS will eventually fill up, but
> possibly ''lurk'' nose down just below the surface.
> Cheers,
> Nev.
>
>
>
> _http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List_
>
>
> _http://forums.matronics.com_
>
>
> size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 2
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Has anybody devised a mod. to mount an outboard motor protruding through
the botom of the baggage bay for self retrieval following a ditching?
Do not archive.
Message 3
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Or 5mm thick in hte XS wing(?).
In passing, I recall that Ivan claimed 9lbs(?) had been saved in coring out
the blue foam of the Classic wing. So if a lb of foam provides 30lbs of
buoyancy, then 270lbs of potential buoyancy has been lost from the Classic
wings; if/when the hollowed-out sections inundate after a ditching.
Duncan McF.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Singleton" <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: bouyancy
> <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>
> Fred
> as Neville suggests, there is probably enough foam in an XS to float the
> engine. All you need to be sure is 2 cubic ft of blue foam, which you
> could put in behind the wing spar.
> You could estimate the amount of PVC foam, (about 5 lbs/cu ft,?) from the
> wetted area of the aircraft. It's 3mm thick. You know the weight, 1370lbs.
> Graham
>
> Fred Klein wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> Posted points are well taken...as I said, I intend to do some research on
>> the subject and will report back any information I gather...adding foam
>> may well be one of those seemingly simple notions which, upon
>> investigation, is fraught with peril.
>>
>> Fred
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 10, 2007, at 03:51 PM, NevEyre@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Hi Bob / All.
>> The blue foam is pretty well closed cell, the type that is
>> definately closed cell is coloured orange, and sold as ''Flotation
>> Billet'' as opposed to ''Insulation Billet of the blue, as used in
>> the Europa.
>> The blue will not pick up too much water unless immersed at great
>> depth, where the pressure will force the water into the cells, so
>> fine at sea level ! It weighs 2lb. cu.ft, and a cu.ft will support
>> 60lbs in fresh water.
>> Most of the foams that are injected, are open cell, so will soak
>> up water like a sponge, the pour in types supplied to the marine
>> trade for bouyancy are very inconsistant in use, sometimes they
>> tend to expand to ''open cell'', which again will soak up water.
>> [I have seen boats foamed with this ''TOUCAN'' foam that
>> have absorbed so much water they barely floated]
>> The other problem with the ''pour in'' foams [ as opposed to the
>> blow in, injected types] is that the finnished volume can vary,
>> you can never be sure how far it will go. I have witnessed floors
>> ripped from hulls. Temperature of the two foam components. and the
>> space being foamed will have an effect. The warmer the foam and /
>> or space, the further it will go.What can happen, is that it fills
>> a space entirely, and ''gells'',[ so cant escape from the vent
>> hole] then carries on expanding, with sometimes disasterous
>> results.The power of foam expanding has to be seen to be believed!
>> I have seen a Range Rover that someone with a grievence had poured
>> some of this two pack foam into, puffed it out like a hedgehog,
>> totally round by the time it had finnished!
>> A Classic, I am sure , will have more than enough volume of foam
>> to stay afloat indefinately, an XS will eventually fill up, but
>> possibly ''lurk'' nose down just below the surface.
>> Cheers,
>> Nev.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List_
>>
>>
>>
>> _http://forums.matronics.com_
>>
>>
>>
>> size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 4
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Graham,
My interest in investigating injecting foam forward of the spar was to
create buoyancy to offset the engine weight...I'm ignorant of the
relation of the spar location vis a vis the c.g.
Blissfully,
Fred
On Thursday, January 11, 2007, at 02:04 AM, Graham Singleton wrote:
> <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>
> Fred
> as Neville suggests, there is probably enough foam in an XS to float
> the engine. All you need to be sure is 2 cubic ft of blue foam, which
> you could put in behind the wing spar.
> You could estimate the amount of PVC foam, (about 5 lbs/cu ft,?) from
> the wetted area of the aircraft. It's 3mm thick. You know the weight,
> 1370lbs.
> Graham
Message 5
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I look forward to witnessing the first test float of a classic!!!
Best regards to all
Trev
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fuel vent opening ideas wanted |
I have fuel tank vent on my XS Monowheel plumbed to the top of the Cobra,
a small space (siphon break) and the vent hose comes out.
Was wondering if I could get input on:
Attempt to cut down clogging (Bug, Ice formation, Debris)
Thoughts on Reduxing in some stainless wool? (What are negatives)
Thoughts on crushing vent tube into a oval, in hopes of
preventing critter ingress and stream lining?
What is favorite location, forward facing? Vertical(90 or 45 degree cut)?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
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