---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/14/07: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:10 AM - Re: Mandatory mod no 72 (Roger Sheridan) 2. 02:12 AM - Re: Fuel vent opening ideas wanted (Duncan & Ami McFadyean) 3. 03:06 AM - Re: Rotax Water Temperature. (Gilles Thesee) 4. 03:31 AM - AW: Rotax Water Temperature. (Ing. Gottfried Komaier) 5. 06:15 AM - Re: Fuel vent opening ideas wanted (Graham Singleton) 6. 07:33 AM - Mod 72 (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu) 7. 09:00 AM - Re: Rotax Water Temperature. (Mike Parkin) 8. 09:03 AM - Re: Rotax Water Temperature. (Mike Parkin) 9. 09:45 AM - Re: Mandatory mod no 72 (Simon Smith) 10. 11:06 AM - Re: Rivets (h&jeuropa) 11. 11:08 AM - Re: Rotax Water Temperature. (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 12. 11:14 AM - Re: Europa Club Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod (h&jeuropa) 13. 11:20 AM - Re: Mandatory mod no 72 (h&jeuropa) 14. 11:50 AM - Re: Rotax Water Temperature. (Mike Parkin) 15. 12:54 PM - Re: Rotax Water Temperature. (Simon Smith) 16. 01:12 PM - Re: Rotax Water Temperature. (Mike Parkin) 17. 01:36 PM - Re: Mandatory mod no 72- Cynical? (Bryan Allsop) 18. 02:20 PM - Re: Mandatory mod no 72- Cynical? (Graham Singleton) 19. 04:49 PM - Re: Rotax Water Temperature. (Europa List) 20. 07:35 PM - Teflon Braid Fittings (Troy Maynor) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:10:41 AM PST US From: Roger Sheridan Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mandatory mod no 72 Perhaps the Europa Club would invest in a suitable reamer which we can share around. Cheers, Rog Sheridan (hanging on for 912S MkII !) Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:27 AM PST US From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel vent opening ideas wanted Graham, I'm sure you are correct; probably EAL 'spin' that makes it look like thier idea. Mod 38 (the drilling of the small holes in the rear face of hte vent tubes) did however come about immediately following Peter Kember's (not Jon Tye's as I had thought) reported difficulties with rainwater ingress: http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=1315446?KEYS=rain_&_vent_&_fuel_?LISTNAME=Europa?HITNUMBER=243?SERIAL=1620198159X?SHOWBUTTONS=YES Duncan McF ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Singleton" Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 10:06 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel vent opening ideas wanted > > > The small rear facing hole was specified by Burt Rutan, to create a small > flow of air through the vent allowing water that blew in to blow out > again. This was in order to reduce the risk of the vent icing up. (Burt > designed the EZs among many others and was the inspiration for the > Europa.) > Each of the four present at the barside chats in Yorkshire while the > Europa was forming in Ivan's head built an EZ. We wanted an EZ that would > operate from small grass fields. > > Graham > > Duncan & Ami McFadyean wrote: > >> >> >> <<... I have not heard of this being a problem>> >> >> Inflight rainwater ingress was a problem for Jon Tye (I think it was) >> and resulted in the mod requiring a small rear-facing hole to be made in >> the back of the exposed part of the vent. >> > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:06:55 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. > My exit coolant temp works out at 25 degs C less than the CHT pretty > well throughout the range. William, 25C seems a great temperature difference between the CHT and the coolant flowing out of the heads. That would mean that even at the 135C CHT red line (Rotax 914), your coolant would not exit the the heads above110C ? Or flying at 100C CHT, the coolant would not exceed 75C ? All the measurements I did showed a difference on the order of 5C. Have you tried checking the two temperature measuring devices in the same water or oil bath ? Regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:36 AM PST US From: "Ing. Gottfried Komaier" Subject: AW: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Hi Mike, is this the modification you looking for? http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=WileE &id-31903H2Otemp&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=v iew_photo.php Gottfried _____ Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Mike Parkin Gesendet: Samstag, 13. J=E4nner 2007 20:32 An: Europa-List@Matronics.Com Betreff: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Has anyone come across a modification scheme to introduce a water temperature sensor into the 914 engine installation. regards, Mike ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:38 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel vent opening ideas wanted Duncan thanks for that, I haven't seen it before. I knew about Peter's event but had not heard Richard's reasoned conclusions. Graham. Duncan & Ami McFadyean wrote: > > > Graham, > I'm sure you are correct; probably EAL 'spin' that makes it look like > thier idea. Mod 38 (the drilling of the small holes in the rear face > of hte vent tubes) did however come about immediately following Peter > Kember's (not Jon Tye's as I had thought) reported difficulties with > rainwater ingress: > > http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=1315446?KEYS=rain_&_vent_&_fuel_?LISTNAME=Europa?HITNUMBER=243?SERIAL=1620198159X?SHOWBUTTONS=YES > Duncan McF ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:27 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Mod 72 From: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu Hi All, Where is E04? They actually did mention the new mod in the new Tech Bulletin (available on the website, as usual) I doubt they have all the EMail addresses of current owners in the company. Recall that they also seem to have a policy against offical posting in the mail-list. Why, I don't know. Ira N224XS ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:37 AM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Thanks a lot. Looks a very elegant solution to the problem. But I think the Skydrive Kit might be a little easier to implement. regards, Mike. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ing. Gottfried Komaier To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:31 AM Subject: AW: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Hi Mike, is this the modification you looking for? http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=WileE&id-3190 3H2Otemp&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.ph p Gottfried ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Mike Parkin Gesendet: Samstag, 13. J=E4nner 2007 20:32 An: Europa-List@Matronics.Com Betreff: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Has anyone come across a modification scheme to introduce a water temperature sensor into the 914 engine installation. regards, Mike href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 13/01/2007 17:40 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:08 AM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. William, Happy New Year. The Skydrive kit looks ideal. When I pull the engine for Mod 72, I plan to bin the Evans and go back to 50/50 Glycol Mix. With a 2 function Westach Gauge I can avoid anymore instrument holes. At the same time I will fit my cowl flap. regards, Mike. (do not archive) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:52 AM PST US From: "Simon Smith" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mandatory mod no 72 A suitable reamer can be had for 12 from http://www.tracytools.com/reamersstraight.htm Simon -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Sheridan Sent: 14 January 2007 09:09 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mandatory mod no 72 Perhaps the Europa Club would invest in a suitable reamer which we can share around. Cheers, Rog Sheridan (hanging on for 912S MkII !) Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:34 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Rivets From: "h&jeuropa" I finally found some data on the T_P_ series of rivets at http://www.micometals.co.nz/PDF/fasteners/MICO_Rivets.pdf. This at least helps you try to find the same size and material rivets at the usual US suppliers. Unfortunately haven't found a data sheet for the No. 3 diameter. I also learned that Aeroworks here in Michigan supplied hardware to Europa a few years ago and still has a lot of inventory. They have inventory of some of the rivets. Contact Dale Forton at 800-356-1671 or 616-527-1302. Their website is www.aeroworks.com. Having said all this, I try to purchase as much as is feasible from E04, just to help ensure that they are still around in the future. Jim Butcher A185, N241BW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87569#87569 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:08:29 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Mike, I recently fitted the Skydrive kit, less the reading instrumet because I connected the temp. sender to an available auxiliary input channel in my Grand Rapids EIS. As recommended by Skydrive I installed the temp. sender in the coolant hose from cyl. no. 3 to the common expansion tank on top of the engine. Should be one of the two aft sylinders because they run hotter due to less direct cold air flow. It is tight there, at least on my 912S installation, but if you plan well before you cut the hose it is no problem. I use 50/50 battery water/glycol. I do not see the merit of measuring the temperature of the coolant in the expansion tank, as this will be a mix of the coolant from all 4 cylinders where the two front ones have significantly lower CHT. Trust you have the latest revision of the Rotax SB addressing the alarm limit for the coolant temperature. For those reading this and having used the 4 ring thermocouples delivered by Grand Rapids for CHT: I insulated the visible part of the thermocouples and the attachment bolts and an inch around where installed, using the red high-temperature Locktite sealant. Put on a good, thick blob. It made a noticeable difference in the readings for the two front cylinders, now reading some 15-20 degr C higher than before but still well below the two aft ones. The measuring points are directly in the cold air coming in through the two openings in the cowling. The measuring point in the VDO sender used by Rotax Flydat picks up the temperature deeper in the CH and is therefore not as directly exposed to the cooling air as the thermocouples are. Regards, Svein LN-SKJ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:39 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa Club Outrigger Pivot Bearing Mod From: "h&jeuropa" Nigel, I've just finished upgrading the pivot bearing as you described. To capture the AN5 bolt, I used one with a safety wire thru the head (AN5H-24) and replaced the close by AN525 screw with a AN3H-24 bolt and then safety wired the two together to prevent the AN5 bolt from rotating. Works great! Jim Butcher N241BW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87572#87572 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:28 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mandatory mod no 72 From: "h&jeuropa" I have just purchased a suitable reamer and as soon as Paul McAllister and I get the mod installed in our planes, I'd be happly to loan it to anyone on this side of the pond. Just email and I'll send it via USPS. Should cost less than $3. Reamer is about $30 to purchase. Seems silly for everyone to buy one to open two places! Jim Butcher N241BW europa@triton.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87577#87577 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:49 AM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Svein, Thanks a lot. Skydrive, Cylinder No 3 it is then. regards, Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Sidsel & Svein Johnsen To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 7:04 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Mike, I recently fitted the Skydrive kit, ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:42 PM PST US From: "Simon Smith" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Mike, I spoke to Andy about the skydrive kit about 6 weeks ago. There is (unbelievably) no standard mod for this and he said that a mod application would be required. Personally I think that it is a ridiculous situation for the PFA to expect us to embody all Rotax SB's on our engines but to also require us to wait 3months for them to process the mod paperwork AND pay for the privilege! Simon _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Parkin Sent: 14 January 2007 19:49 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Svein, Thanks a lot. Skydrive, Cylinder No 3 it is then. regards, Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Sidsel & Svein Johnsen Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 7:04 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Mike, I recently fitted the Skydrive kit, ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:12:12 PM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Simon, Now why does that not surprise me. The aims of the PFA???? - beam me up Scotty. thanks, MIke ----- Original Message ----- From: Simon Smith To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 8:34 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Mike, I spoke to Andy about the skydrive kit about 6 weeks ago. There is (unbelievably) no standard mod for this and he said that a mod application would be required. Personally I think that it is a ridiculous situation for the PFA to expect us to embody all Rotax SB's on our engines but to also require us to wait 3months for them to process the mod paperwork AND pay for the privilege! Simon ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Parkin Sent: 14 January 2007 19:49 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Svein, Thanks a lot. Skydrive, Cylinder No 3 it is then. regards, Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Sidsel & Svein Johnsen To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 7:04 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Mike, I recently fitted the Skydrive kit, ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 13/01/2007 17:40 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:35 PM PST US From: "Bryan Allsop" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mandatory mod no 72- Cynical? Hi Graham, Cynical? No! Realistic? Yes! Best regards, Bryan > We might be watching the end of western civilization. Race against time, > will the planet kick us off before we wreck it? > Apologies for being cinical but that is the effect govmint has on me. > Graham > > Karl Heindl wrote: > >> >>> We had enough of this aggro when we were building the aircraft - >>> about 60 or so mods from memory (yes, we were one of the early ones >>> (no49!!!). >> >> What exactly is the point of having the PFA. They passed the Europa >> with flying colours, and yet, some of the parts were obviously >> underdesigned. I always thought that the engine frame looked kind of >> flimsy, and I guess the nosegear frame will be next to bite the dust. >> >> Karl > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:52 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mandatory mod no 72- Cynical? I just hope I'm wrong! Correction; mistaken ;-) Graham Bryan Allsop wrote: > > > Hi Graham, > > Cynical? No! > Realistic? Yes! ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:34 PM PST US From: "Europa List" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. I think this is where the FAA would like to take us here on the left side of the pond. Thank God we still have the second amendment(unless of course the Democrats get their way). What??....... I didn't say that!! Vaughn ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Parkin To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 4:11 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Simon, Now why does that not surprise me. The aims of the PFA???? - beam me up Scotty. thanks, MIke ----- Original Message ----- From: Simon Smith To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 8:34 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Mike, I spoke to Andy about the skydrive kit about 6 weeks ago. There is (unbelievably) no standard mod for this and he said that a mod application would be required. Personally I think that it is a ridiculous situation for the PFA to expect us to embody all Rotax SB's on our engines but to also require us to wait 3months for them to process the mod paperwork AND pay for the privilege! Simon ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Parkin Sent: 14 January 2007 19:49 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Svein, Thanks a lot. Skydrive, Cylinder No 3 it is then. regards, Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Sidsel & Svein Johnsen To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 7:04 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Water Temperature. Mike, I recently fitted the Skydrive kit, href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Date: 13/01/2007 17:40 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:22 PM PST US From: "Troy Maynor" Subject: Europa-List: Teflon Braid Fittings Hi All, I am replacing the cloth braided old style fuel hose on my yet to be completed classic. I am going to run some Teflon 666 hose from the pump through the tunnel to a bulkhead fitting on the firewall and a return of the same quality to the reserve side of the tank. The ACS catalog is a little vague on fittings that go with the 666 stuff. I need to go from a 1/4" NPT 90deg. on the pump to the appropiate bulk head fitting, times two counting the return. Then, when it gets to the fitting on the reserve side of the tank adapter it is now a 1/8" NPT. I want the correct aircraft grade stuff, avoiding the use of jubilee/spiral hose clamps. I'm having trouble identifying the compatible bits. I have looked at the archive without the detail I need. Just tell me where to look I guess is the main question, but all clues accepted. I will need to source additional configurations of fittings like these in the future for the FWF side. Thanks to those who have gone before. Troy Maynor N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic Left to finish: Paint,(some) interior,engine install, (some) wiring. 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