---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/19/07: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:48 AM - Mod 72 question (Robert Borger) 2. 06:11 AM - PVC Circles (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com) 3. 06:25 AM - Re: Mod 72 question (William Daniell) 4. 07:01 AM - Re: Mod 72 question (Peter Zutrauen) 5. 07:37 AM - Re: Re: It's arrived :-) (Jeff B) 6. 08:04 AM - Repositioning door gas struts (Mike Gamble) 7. 08:11 AM - Re: Mod 72 question (Rob Housman) 8. 09:04 AM - Re: Mod 72 question (JEFF ROBERTS) 9. 09:23 AM - Re: Repositioning door gas struts (Graham Singleton) 10. 09:41 AM - Re: Repositioning door gas struts (Graham Singleton) 11. 09:46 AM - Re: Repositioning door gas struts (R.C.Harrison) 12. 10:37 AM - Re: Repositioning door gas struts (NevEyre@aol.com) 13. 11:39 AM - Re: Mod 72 question (Steve Pitt) 14. 12:43 PM - Re: Mod 72 question (Roger Bull) 15. 01:39 PM - Re: Mod 72 question (Gary Leinberger) 16. 02:26 PM - Re: Mod 72 question (rlborger) 17. 02:39 PM - Re: Mod 72 question (Duncan & Ami McFadyean) 18. 03:10 PM - Re: Mod 72 question (Roger Bull) 19. 05:01 PM - Re: Repositioning door gas struts (Graham Singleton) 20. 05:10 PM - Re: Mod 72 question (SPurpura@aol.com) 21. 05:37 PM - Re: Mod 72 question (Graham Singleton) 22. 08:52 PM - Re: Mod 72 question (Tom Friedland) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:57 AM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Europa-List: Mod 72 question Fellow Europaphiles, The Mod 72 topic has become too quiet. I've decided to give it a poke and see if I can wake it up again. I have all the various bits for Mod 72 on order. Etching primer, ACF-50, 16.5 mm hand reamer & Mod 72 kit. I am wondering why the heavy wall tubing is not bonded in place with something like Redux. Is the press fit good enough to support the frame? Would it be better to Redux the insert in place? Better support and corrosion protection? If not, why not? Good building and great flying, Bob Borger Standing by, wearing my nomex undies, ready for the flames. P.S. The reamer will be available for loan to any Europa builder in the U.S. or Canada who needs it for Mod 72. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:24 AM PST US From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: PVC Circles In a message dated 1/19/2007 2:59:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Colin, Put a sticky PVC circle over them, along with your other access holes, and wing roots. It will go faster apart from keeping the water out. Greetings Group, While they were making my registration numbers to put on the tail, I had a local vinyl sign shop make me several sheets of circles in various sizes to fit areas I wanted to cover, i.e., speed fairing bolts, rear drag pin holes in wing root fairings, etc. With my elevator pins I had them make teardrop shapes. (more aerodynamic!). I put a thin piece of mylar cut to shape over the pip pin hole first in such a way that it just catches the edge of the hole. This keeps the vinyl from sagging into the hole in the Sun. You can make the mylar really fit well if you take the time to sand the edges sharp to get a proper fit. Another thing I had the vinyl shop make was squared off "O" shaped stickers with the center removed. These were sized and shaped to fit over the wing inspection ports to seal them up. My wing inspection covers are made from clear plexiglass and the hole in the middle of the sticker allows for inspection without removing the cover. The cost for all the circles, teardrops and "O"'s were less than $25 for a supply that will last for years. And it regard to how fast these will make your Europa, think scary fast...... Regards, John Lawton Dunlap, TN (TN89) N245E - Flying - 80.7 flawless hours..... ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:39 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 72 question I had the same question... -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Borger Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 08:48 Subject: Europa-List: Mod 72 question Fellow Europaphiles, The Mod 72 topic has become too quiet. I've decided to give it a poke and see if I can wake it up again. I have all the various bits for Mod 72 on order. Etching primer, ACF-50, 16.5 mm hand reamer & Mod 72 kit. I am wondering why the heavy wall tubing is not bonded in place with something like Redux. Is the press fit good enough to support the frame? Would it be better to Redux the insert in place? Better support and corrosion protection? If not, why not? Good building and great flying, Bob Borger Standing by, wearing my nomex undies, ready for the flames. P.S. The reamer will be available for loan to any Europa builder in the U.S. or Canada who needs it for Mod 72. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:57 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 72 question From: "Peter Zutrauen" ..... I think many of us do as well..... Has anyone heard the answer from the factory? Cheers, Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of William Daniell Sent: Fri 19/01/2007 9:24 AM To: europa-list@matronics.com Cc: Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 72 question I had the same question... -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Borger Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 08:48 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Europa-List: Mod 72 question Fellow Europaphiles, The Mod 72 topic has become too quiet. I've decided to give it a poke and see if I can wake it up again. I have all the various bits for Mod 72 on order. Etching primer, ACF-50, 16.5 mm hand reamer & Mod 72 kit. I am wondering why the heavy wall tubing is not bonded in place with something like Redux. Is the press fit good enough to support the frame? Would it be better to Redux the insert in place? Better support and corrosion protection? If not, why not? Good building and great flying, Bob Borger Standing by, wearing my nomex undies, ready for the flames. P.S. The reamer will be available for loan to any Europa builder in the U.S. or Canada who needs it for Mod 72. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:52 AM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: It's arrived :-) Alan, Happy to know that your task is almost done. Hope to meet up with you at SNF, along with the usual crew... Jeff - Baby Blue 251 hours Alan Burrows wrote: > > Hello All > After many arduous and stressful battles with the U.S. customs (and lots of > money changing hands), my Europa finally arrived here in Spruce Creek > Florida at 4pm this evening. Tomorrow I will start the delicate unpacking > process and hope not too many parts are damaged. The whole process involved > me being considered a "dodgy character" (some may agree with that view) by > the customs authority and having the aircraft moved to a secure storage > facility where it could be thoroughly searched for illicit contraband. The > container had three separate holds placed on it and was only released after > many irate phone calls from me and a thorough in depth search by the men in > power. Oh yes and did I mention the fact that they were charging me storage > whilst they had the container. They released the container ( and the > aircraft) yesterday and our trucker turned up today to collect it all only > to be told that they couldn't release it as the " Inspection fee" had not > been paid.... it had but they just didn't look at the right bank account for > it! SO more irate phone calls and we were finally informed that they had > found the money and we could have the container. The trucker had been there > from 11am to 2.30pm waiting for it. But now it's here as you can imagine, > life is good again. And tomorrow we start battle with the FAA. > Hope to see everyone at Sun 'n Fun. > Happy Flying and building > > Cheers > > Alan > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:36 AM PST US From: "Mike Gamble" Subject: Europa-List: Repositioning door gas struts Good day chaps. Anyone have any tips on fixings for the 'reversed' gas strut. Glue and rivit some an ali angle to the door frame? Any special place? Any traps to fall into? Would this require mod action via pfa? Thanks Mike Gamble XSmono 440 still at it, on and off ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:45 AM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 72 question Mod 72 provides added strength, in particular in bending, by adding thickness to the wall of the tube. It is the added thickness that provides the additional strength and because there are no forces that would tend to move the insert along its axis (relative to the original tubing) there is no need for bonding it into the frame. Epoxy used to create a bond between the original tube and the insert would be a weak annular region that could allow the original tube to deform, albeit very slightly, if the epoxy were to extrude out of the gap. As for corrosion protection, remember that the original frame is powder coated only on the exterior so nothing much changes when adding the insert. Best regards, Rob Housman A070 Airframe complete Irvine, CA -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert Borger Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 5:48 AM Subject: Europa-List: Mod 72 question Fellow Europaphiles, The Mod 72 topic has become too quiet. I've decided to give it a poke and see if I can wake it up again. I have all the various bits for Mod 72 on order. Etching primer, ACF-50, 16.5 mm hand reamer & Mod 72 kit. I am wondering why the heavy wall tubing is not bonded in place with something like Redux. Is the press fit good enough to support the frame? Would it be better to Redux the insert in place? Better support and corrosion protection? If not, why not? Good building and great flying, Bob Borger Standing by, wearing my nomex undies, ready for the flames. P.S. The reamer will be available for loan to any Europa builder in the U.S. or Canada who needs it for Mod 72. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:16 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 72 question The way I'm interpreting the need for this mod, is that it is only for 914's or 912-S Europas with props heaver than 25 lb's is that correct? Are their those that feel and is there a reason they feel mod 72 should be placed on all Europas? Jeff N128LJ / Gold Rush On Jan 19, 2007, at 9:56 AM, Rob Housman wrote: > > Mod 72 provides added strength, in particular in bending, by adding > thickness to the wall of the tube. It is the added thickness that > provides > the additional strength and because there are no forces that would > tend to > move the insert along its axis (relative to the original tubing) there > is no > need for bonding it into the frame. > > Epoxy used to create a bond between the original tube and the insert > would > be a weak annular region that could allow the original tube to deform, > albeit very slightly, if the epoxy were to extrude out of the gap. > > As for corrosion protection, remember that the original frame is powder > coated only on the exterior so nothing much changes when adding the > insert. > > > Best regards, > > Rob Housman > A070 > Airframe complete > Irvine, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert > Borger > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 5:48 AM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Mod 72 question > > > Fellow Europaphiles, > > The Mod 72 topic has become too quiet. I've decided to give it a poke > and > see if I can wake it up again. > > I have all the various bits for Mod 72 on order. Etching primer, > ACF-50, > 16.5 mm hand reamer & Mod 72 kit. > > I am wondering why the heavy wall tubing is not bonded in place with > something like Redux. > > Is the press fit good enough to support the frame? > > Would it be better to Redux the insert in place? Better support and > corrosion protection? > > If not, why not? > > Good building and great flying, > Bob Borger > Standing by, wearing my nomex undies, ready for the flames. > > P.S. > The reamer will be available for loan to any Europa builder in the > U.S. or > Canada who needs it for Mod 72. > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:33 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Repositioning door gas struts Mike the best way is to use Ted Dexter's mod, he mounts the gas strut into a folding strut so that none of the strut pressure acts on the door. Its the most elegant solution for this problem, Andy Draper had it on his desk for ages but never got a round tuit unfortunately. This is the smartest XS I've seen yet. Graham Mike Gamble wrote: > Good day chaps. > Anyone have any tips on fixings for the 'reversed' gas strut. > Glue and rivit some an ali angle to the door frame? > Any special place? > Any traps to fall into? > Would this require mod action via pfa? > Thanks > Mike Gamble > XSmono 440 > still at it, on and off > > > > >* > > >* > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:22 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Repositioning door gas struts All, my mistake, Ted Gladstone is the guy and his strut mod isn't on the web site. I've attached it but it may not get thru Mike the best way is to use Ted Gladstone's mod, he mounts the gas strut into a folding strut so that none of the strut pressure acts on the door. Its the most elegant solution for this problem, Andy Draper had it on his desk for ages but never got a round tuit unfortunately. This is the smartest XS I've seen yet. Graham Mike Gamble wrote: > Good day chaps. > Anyone have any tips on fixings for the 'reversed' gas strut. > Glue and rivit some an ali angle to the door frame? > Any special place? > Any traps to fall into? > Would this require mod action via pfa? > Thanks > Mike Gamble > XSmono 440 > still at it, on and off > > >*============================================= > >* > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:15 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Repositioning door gas struts Hi! Mike Suggest you do the mod. that Ted .Gladstone did, c/w all the aluminium angle it is really a masterpiece and eliminates all distortion loads on the doors. Regards Bob Harrison. G-PTAG Robt.C.Harrison -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Gamble Sent: 19 January 2007 15:51 Subject: Europa-List: Repositioning door gas struts Good day chaps. Anyone have any tips on fixings for the 'reversed' gas strut. Glue and rivit some an ali angle to the door frame? Any special place? Any traps to fall into? Would this require mod action via pfa? Thanks Mike Gamble XSmono 440 still at it, on and off ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:57 AM PST US From: NevEyre@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Repositioning door gas struts Hi Graham, Perhaps it is Ted Dexter we need, has to be better than the bunch of muppets we have in the cricket team at the moment? Cheers, Nev. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:11 AM PST US From: "Steve Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 72 question To all Europa owners/builders from a UK owner/now Flyer. You may not get much out of the UK builders/owners this weekend as the Club is having its annual away weekend including John and Roger (I believe) from the factory. As a 912S trigear owner I am affected by the Mod 72 and have ordered my parts as directed by the Europa (2004) website. I am not an expert on the subject but understand from listening to intelligent conversations that the mod is mandatory where stated in the Europa site but advisable for others. Whether you do the Mod will depend on your Governing Authorities, technical understanding of the issues or your wish to provide 'belt and braces' to your aircraft. For those that have not visited the Europa 2004 website recently might I suggest you do so as the sad news of the recent death of one of the key personalities in the company might help the understanding of communication issues. To all of you I wish you a Happy and Successful year whether flying or building your craft. Steve Pitt G-SMDH PS see you all at Sun'n'Fun. PPS I hope I do not mislead anyone with this message - I am sure those with more technical expertise will correct me if required. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:29 PM PST US From: "Roger Bull" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 72 question O.K. Bob, you woke me up! Rob Housman's answer is on the ball. Using Redux would necessitate increasing the clearance between the original tube and the new inserts. The Redux would not be strong enough to withstand the bending load, which is the critical part of the overall stress. The insert is intended to be a close but not interference fit in the outer tubes after reaming. Any small clearance which may exist after fitting the new tubes will be taken up by deflection caused by the initial load applied by the weight of the engine and propeller. The bending load is applied both by the vertical load from the weight of the engine acting some 2.5" approx forward of the weld affected area, and also by the small tube which is about 1" above the main horizontal tube. The forward thrust from the propeller creates this bending load. To that has to be added on one side the torque reaction. (Distances are from memory as I am writing this fom home). I have made a small change to the Mod leaflet to make the applicability criteria a little clearer. The factors which affect applicability are engine and propeller weights and c's of g forward of the undercarriage mounting frame, and the engine torque. Briefly all Rotax engined Europas, except those with classic engine installations and light propellers as defined in the Mod leaflet, will need to incorporate the Mod. So all Rotax engined XS models, regardless of whether 912, 912S or 914, and regardless of propeller will need the Mod. Europas with engines other than Rotax will need to be checked on a case by case basis. We have already established that Europas with the Jabiru 3300 engine will need the Mod. It was orginally intended that the news of the Mod would be promulgated by the PFA and EA4 on their respective websites simultaneously - unfortunately that did not happen. The PFA have now updated their Type Acceptance Data Sheet to include Mod 72. We realise that quite a long time has elapsed since the failure took place that gave rise to this Mod. It was necessary first to establish that the failure was not a one-off due to a unique set of circumstances; research into the original calculations established that there was a more general problem. The we had to devise a satisfactory solution that would be reasonably straightforward to incorporate, then carry out tests to prove the fix. Then the method had to be agreed with the PFA, and the Mod leaflet written. This latter exercise proved rather drawn out, and several drafts were needed before the current version was agreed. Establishing why the original error in stressing was made during the reign of EMIL proved almost impossible, as the engineer concerned died a few years ago. I realise that many people may feel that an unnecessary fuss is being made about this Mod, but a look at the attached photo of the first, but not only, failure should prove interesting. Best regards, Roger Bull EA4 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert Borger Sent: 19 January 2007 1:48 pm Subject: Europa-List: Mod 72 question Fellow Europaphiles, The Mod 72 topic has become too quiet. I've decided to give it a poke and see if I can wake it up again. I have all the various bits for Mod 72 on order. Etching primer, ACF-50, 16.5 mm hand reamer & Mod 72 kit. I am wondering why the heavy wall tubing is not bonded in place with something like Redux. Is the press fit good enough to support the frame? Would it be better to Redux the insert in place? Better support and corrosion protection? If not, why not? Good building and great flying, Bob Borger Standing by, wearing my nomex undies, ready for the flames. P.S. The reamer will be available for loan to any Europa builder in the U.S. or Canada who needs it for Mod 72. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:07 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 72 question From: "Gary Leinberger" What about the bottom weld points? Would it hurt to put in pieces here also? Gary leinberger A237 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Bull Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:42 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 72 question O.K. Bob, you woke me up! Rob Housman's answer is on the ball. Using Redux would necessitate increasing the clearance between the original tube and the new inserts. The Redux would not be strong enough to withstand the bending load, which is the critical part of the overall stress. The insert is intended to be a close but not interference fit in the outer tubes after reaming. Any small clearance which may exist after fitting the new tubes will be taken up by deflection caused by the initial load applied by the weight of the engine and propeller. The bending load is applied both by the vertical load from the weight of the engine acting some 2.5" approx forward of the weld affected area, and also by the small tube which is about 1" above the main horizontal tube. The forward thrust from the propeller creates this bending load. To that has to be added on one side the torque reaction. (Distances are from memory as I am writing this fom home). I have made a small change to the Mod leaflet to make the applicability criteria a little clearer. The factors which affect applicability are engine and propeller weights and c's of g forward of the undercarriage mounting frame, and the engine torque. Briefly all Rotax engined Europas, except those with classic engine installations and light propellers as defined in the Mod leaflet, will need to incorporate the Mod. So all Rotax engined XS models, regardless of whether 912, 912S or 914, and regardless of propeller will need the Mod. Europas with engines other than Rotax will need to be checked on a case by case basis. We have already established that Europas with the Jabiru 3300 engine will need the Mod. It was orginally intended that the news of the Mod would be promulgated by the PFA and EA4 on their respective websites simultaneously - unfortunately that did not happen. The PFA have now updated their Type Acceptance Data Sheet to include Mod 72. We realise that quite a long time has elapsed since the failure took place that gave rise to this Mod. It was necessary first to establish that the failure was not a one-off due to a unique set of circumstances; research into the original calculations established that there was a more general problem. The we had to devise a satisfactory solution that would be reasonably straightforward to incorporate, then carry out tests to prove the fix. Then the method had to be agreed with the PFA, and the Mod leaflet written. This latter exercise proved rather drawn out, and several drafts were needed before the current version was agreed. Establishing why the original error in stressing was made during the reign of EMIL proved almost impossible, as the engineer concerned died a few years ago. I realise that many people may feel that an unnecessary fuss is being made about this Mod, but a look at the attached photo of the first, but not only, failure should prove interesting. Best regards, Roger Bull EA4 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert Borger Sent: 19 January 2007 1:48 pm Subject: Europa-List: Mod 72 question Fellow Europaphiles, The Mod 72 topic has become too quiet. I've decided to give it a poke and see if I can wake it up again. I have all the various bits for Mod 72 on order. Etching primer, ACF-50, 16.5 mm hand reamer & Mod 72 kit. I am wondering why the heavy wall tubing is not bonded in place with something like Redux. Is the press fit good enough to support the frame? Would it be better to Redux the insert in place? Better support and corrosion protection? If not, why not? Good building and great flying, Bob Borger Standing by, wearing my nomex undies, ready for the flames. P.S. The reamer will be available for loan to any Europa builder in the U.S. or Canada who needs it for Mod 72. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:41 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: Mod 72 question From: rlborger Roger, Thanks for the detailed explanation. I appreciate it very much. Best regards, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL (85%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Flaps & Main Gear complete. Working in - 24 Instrument Panel, 25 Electrical, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing. Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. E04 interior kit has arrived. Installing the ROTAX 914. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:05 PM PST US From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 72 question Note the 'spanner' scratch that appears to have initiated the crack on the s'bd-side arm. Glad that EA4 are now awake! Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Bull" Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 8:41 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 72 question > O.K. Bob, you woke me up! > > > Rob Housman's answer is on the ball. Using Redux would necessitate > increasing the clearance between the original tube and the new inserts. > The > Redux would not be strong enough to withstand the bending load, which is > the > critical part of the overall stress. The insert is intended to be a close > but not interference fit in the outer tubes after reaming. Any small > clearance which may exist after fitting the new tubes will be taken up by > deflection caused by the initial load applied by the weight of the engine > and propeller. > > The bending load is applied both by the vertical load from the weight of > the > engine acting some 2.5" approx forward of the weld affected area, and also > by the small tube which is about 1" above the main horizontal tube. The > forward thrust from the propeller creates this bending load. To that has > to > be added on one side the torque reaction. (Distances are from memory as I > am > writing this fom home). > > I have made a small change to the Mod leaflet to make the applicability > criteria a little clearer. The factors which affect applicability are > engine and propeller weights and c's of g forward of the undercarriage > mounting frame, and the engine torque. > > Briefly all Rotax engined Europas, except those with classic engine > installations and light propellers as defined in the Mod leaflet, will > need > to incorporate the Mod. So all Rotax engined XS models, regardless of > whether 912, 912S or 914, and regardless of propeller will need the Mod. > Europas with engines other than Rotax will need to be checked on a case by > case basis. We have already established that Europas with the Jabiru 3300 > engine will need the Mod. > > It was orginally intended that the news of the Mod would be promulgated by > the PFA and EA4 on their respective websites simultaneously - > unfortunately > that did not happen. The PFA have now updated their Type Acceptance Data > Sheet to include Mod 72. > > We realise that quite a long time has elapsed since the failure took place > that gave rise to this Mod. It was necessary first to establish that the > failure was not a one-off due to a unique set of circumstances; research > into the original calculations established that there was a more general > problem. The we had to devise a satisfactory solution that would be > reasonably straightforward to incorporate, then carry out tests to prove > the > fix. Then the method had to be agreed with the PFA, and the Mod leaflet > written. This latter exercise proved rather drawn out, and several drafts > were needed before the current version was agreed. Establishing why the > original error in stressing was made during the reign of EMIL proved > almost > impossible, as the engineer concerned died a few years ago. > > I realise that many people may feel that an unnecessary fuss is being made > about this Mod, but a look at the attached photo of the first, but not > only, > failure should prove interesting. > > Best regards, > > Roger Bull > EA4 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert > Borger > Sent: 19 January 2007 1:48 pm > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Mod 72 question > > > > Fellow Europaphiles, > > The Mod 72 topic has become too quiet. I've decided to give it a poke and > see if I can wake it up again. > > I have all the various bits for Mod 72 on order. Etching primer, ACF-50, > 16.5 mm hand reamer & Mod 72 kit. > > I am wondering why the heavy wall tubing is not bonded in place with > something like Redux. > > Is the press fit good enough to support the frame? > > Would it be better to Redux the insert in place? Better support and > corrosion protection? > > If not, why not? > > Good building and great flying, > Bob Borger > Standing by, wearing my nomex undies, ready for the flames. > > P.S. > The reamer will be available for loan to any Europa builder in the U.S. or > Canada who needs it for Mod 72. > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:35 PM PST US From: "Roger Bull" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 72 question Gary, Not necessary, there are no offset bending loads at the bottom. Regards, Roger -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Leinberger Sent: 19 January 2007 9:38 pm Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 72 question What about the bottom weld points? Would it hurt to put in pieces here also? Gary leinberger A237 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Bull Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:42 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 72 question O.K. Bob, you woke me up! Rob Housman's answer is on the ball. Using Redux would necessitate increasing the clearance between the original tube and the new inserts. The Redux would not be strong enough to withstand the bending load, which is the critical part of the overall stress. The insert is intended to be a close but not interference fit in the outer tubes after reaming. Any small clearance which may exist after fitting the new tubes will be taken up by deflection caused by the initial load applied by the weight of the engine and propeller. The bending load is applied both by the vertical load from the weight of the engine acting some 2.5" approx forward of the weld affected area, and also by the small tube which is about 1" above the main horizontal tube. The forward thrust from the propeller creates this bending load. To that has to be added on one side the torque reaction. (Distances are from memory as I am writing this fom home). I have made a small change to the Mod leaflet to make the applicability criteria a little clearer. The factors which affect applicability are engine and propeller weights and c's of g forward of the undercarriage mounting frame, and the engine torque. Briefly all Rotax engined Europas, except those with classic engine installations and light propellers as defined in the Mod leaflet, will need to incorporate the Mod. So all Rotax engined XS models, regardless of whether 912, 912S or 914, and regardless of propeller will need the Mod. Europas with engines other than Rotax will need to be checked on a case by case basis. We have already established that Europas with the Jabiru 3300 engine will need the Mod. It was orginally intended that the news of the Mod would be promulgated by the PFA and EA4 on their respective websites simultaneously - unfortunately that did not happen. The PFA have now updated their Type Acceptance Data Sheet to include Mod 72. We realise that quite a long time has elapsed since the failure took place that gave rise to this Mod. It was necessary first to establish that the failure was not a one-off due to a unique set of circumstances; research into the original calculations established that there was a more general problem. The we had to devise a satisfactory solution that would be reasonably straightforward to incorporate, then carry out tests to prove the fix. Then the method had to be agreed with the PFA, and the Mod leaflet written. This latter exercise proved rather drawn out, and several drafts were needed before the current version was agreed. Establishing why the original error in stressing was made during the reign of EMIL proved almost impossible, as the engineer concerned died a few years ago. I realise that many people may feel that an unnecessary fuss is being made about this Mod, but a look at the attached photo of the first, but not only, failure should prove interesting. Best regards, Roger Bull EA4 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert Borger Sent: 19 January 2007 1:48 pm Subject: Europa-List: Mod 72 question Fellow Europaphiles, The Mod 72 topic has become too quiet. I've decided to give it a poke and see if I can wake it up again. I have all the various bits for Mod 72 on order. Etching primer, ACF-50, 16.5 mm hand reamer & Mod 72 kit. I am wondering why the heavy wall tubing is not bonded in place with something like Redux. Is the press fit good enough to support the frame? Would it be better to Redux the insert in place? Better support and corrosion protection? If not, why not? Good building and great flying, Bob Borger Standing by, wearing my nomex undies, ready for the flames. P.S. The reamer will be available for loan to any Europa builder in the U.S. or Canada who needs it for Mod 72. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:17 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Repositioning door gas struts I blame the management! Graham ;-) NevEyre@aol.com wrote: > Hi Graham, > Perhaps it is Ted Dexter we need, has to be better than the bunch of > muppets we have in the cricket team at the moment? > Cheers, > Nev. > >* > > >* > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:05 PM PST US From: SPurpura@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 72 question This was with a 914 swinging a 10 pound Whirlwind C.S. prop.I think that the .050 wall tube was a little light. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:22 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 72 question Roger what type of failure was it, bending, shear or fatigue? Graham Roger Bull wrote: >O.K. Bob, you woke me up! > > >Rob Housman's answer is on the ball. Using Redux would necessitate >increasing the clearance between the original tube and the new inserts. > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:54 PM PST US From: "Tom Friedland" <96victor@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 72 question Hi Graham I doubt that you will get an answer what caused the break. It looks to be that it was most likely a tension break with perhaps some fatigue factor. The upper tubes will have tension in the upper parts and that will be increased by the thrust. There also could be some problem with non annealed brittleness from the closeness of the weld. The lower tubes should be ok as they have tension stress from weight bearing but that is cancelled by compression. But then what do I know. My engineering studies were 50 years ago! Now I am just a dumb doc. Tom On 1/19/07, Graham Singleton wrote: > > grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> > > Roger > what type of failure was it, bending, shear or fatigue? > Graham > > Roger Bull wrote: > > >O.K. Bob, you woke me up! > > > > > >Rob Housman's answer is on the ball. Using Redux would necessitate > >increasing the clearance between the original tube and the new inserts. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.