Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:48 AM - Safety alert from the PFA website (Paul Wilson)
2. 08:41 AM - Mono gear collapse (Fergus Kyle)
3. 09:03 AM - Re: Mono gear collapse (Steve Crimm)
4. 09:35 AM - Re: Mono gear collapse (GLENN CROWDER)
5. 09:58 AM - Re: Mono gear collapse (Paul Boulet)
6. 11:47 AM - Re: Undercarriage Overcentre Locking ()
7. 12:15 PM - Re: Undercarriage Overcentre Locking (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
8. 12:15 PM - Re: Mono gear collapse (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
9. 01:26 PM - Re: Mono gear collapse (Graeme Smith)
10. 01:31 PM - Re: Mono gear collapse (Graeme Smith)
11. 01:36 PM - Re: Mono gear collapse (Graeme Smith)
12. 02:18 PM - Re: Undercarriage Overcentre Locking (Graeme Smith)
13. 02:22 PM - Re: Canadian Europa (frank wood)
14. 03:14 PM - Re: Canadian Europa (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
15. 04:36 PM - Re: Undercarriage Overcentre Locking ()
16. 04:54 PM - Re: Mono gear collapse (Kingsley Hurst)
17. 05:03 PM - Re: Mono gear collapse (Tim Ward)
18. 05:33 PM - Europa "Touring Motorglider" (Steve Crimm)
19. 07:09 PM - Re: Undercarriage Overcentre Locking ()
20. 08:58 PM - she did what she was supposed to do (Thomas Scherer)
21. 09:36 PM - Re: she did what she was supposed to do (Paul Boulet)
22. 10:04 PM - Re: she did what she was supposed to do (Kevin And Ann Klinefelter)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Safety alert from the PFA website |
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 10:37 AM
Subject: Safety alert from the PFA website
Copied from the PFA website 23rd Feb.
Safety alerts !!
This week all Europa owners have been sent a PFA bulletin requiring
inspections of the rudder cables for signs of wear in the vicinity of the
fairleads in the forward fuselage. Following investigations into an
accident
in a Europa last year when a seized alternator stopped the engine, we are
also sending owners of NSI engined Europa bulletins calling for regular
checks on the condition of the alternator bearings and warning about the
high rate of decent following engine failure, due to the drag of the
windmilling propeller.
Paul
Message 2
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| Subject: | Mono gear collapse |
I was saddened to hear of that event - especially on take-off..........
and, of course because I contemplate the same possibility.
Is there a spot in the gear-down structure where the insertion of a
bar/lever/whatever mightr inhibit an over-centre travel on a bumpy take-off
(one which I may see fairly often up north)? It might also stop inadvertent
gear-up on display stands.
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
Message 3
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| Subject: | Mono gear collapse |
Question...
When the gear collapsed, what was the position of the gear lever after the
collapse? In the down or up position?
Steve Crimm
N42AH
For Sale
www.stephenscott.com/Europa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 11:40
Subject: Europa-List: Mono gear collapse
I was saddened to hear of that event - especially on take-off..........
and, of course because I contemplate the same possibility.
Is there a spot in the gear-down structure where the insertion of a
bar/lever/whatever mightr inhibit an over-centre travel on a bumpy take-off
(one which I may see fairly often up north)? It might also stop inadvertent
gear-up on display stands.
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
Message 4
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| Subject: | Mono gear collapse |
I thought all Europa monos have the little finger latch that I has to be
lifted first before
retracting the undercarraige. The latch fits in a little slot that stops
any movement
of the retraction lever. Maybe the original builder added this as a mod but
it works
great for me! Very easy to use.
Glenn
>From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>To: "EUROPALIST" <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Europa-List: Mono gear collapse
>Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:40:03 -0500
>
>
>I was saddened to hear of that event - especially on take-off..........
>and, of course because I contemplate the same possibility.
>Is there a spot in the gear-down structure where the insertion of a
>bar/lever/whatever mightr inhibit an over-centre travel on a bumpy take-off
>(one which I may see fairly often up north)? It might also stop
>inadvertent gear-up on display stands.
>
>Ferg Kyle
>Europa A064 914 Classic
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more.then map the best route!
http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Mono gear collapse |
The gear lever was down and locked. My collapse occured after landing roll
out at about 5 kts ground speed. A slight bump caused it to bounce off ce
nter and totally distort/destroy the gear lever and all the mechanisms atta
ched to it. The build manual is wrong and if it had been correct this neve
r would have happened.=0A=0AI'm surmising most of this because the accident
occured with my test pilot at the controls. Also I did not perform the te
ardown/rebuild converstion to tri gear- my builder assist center performed
this.=0A=0AWords to the wise.... take a look at someone else's mono gear re
traction mechanism before accepting the manual's instructions as the gospel
truth.=0A=0APaul Boulet N914PB=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: St
eve Crimm <steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0A
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 9:02:14 AM=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Mono
.crimm@stephenscott.com>=0A=0AQuestion...=0A=0AWhen the gear collapsed, wha
t was the position of the gear lever after the=0Acollapse? In the down or
up position? =0A=0ASteve Crimm=0AN42AH=0AFor Sale=0Awww.stephenscott.com/Eu
ropa=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-europa-list-server@ma
tronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Fergus Kyle=0ASent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 11:40=0ATo: EUROPALIST=0ASubj
ect: Europa-List: Mono gear collapse=0A=0A--> Europa-List message posted by
: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>=0A=0AI was saddened to hear of that event -
especially on take-off.......... =0Aand, of course because I contemplate t
he same possibility.=0AIs there a spot in the gear-down structure where the
insertion of a=0Abar/lever/whatever mightr inhibit an over-centre travel o
n a bumpy take-off=0A(one which I may see fairly often up north)? It might
also stop inadvertent=0Agear-up on display stands.=0A=0AFerg Kyle=0AEuropa
==============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Undercarriage Overcentre Locking |
Graeme,
I'm building A198 - now moved with me to Market Harborough, and I've been
studying/worrying about the overcenter (OC) position and have come to the
same conclusion about the marginal amount of factory designed overcenter
provided. I believe this might be a compromise - as too far overcenter and
you fight the shock cord tension to raise the gear. While the machining of
the gear components is quite precise, I believe the stops are part of a
weldment - which is considerably less so.
Overcenter toggle clamps used for holding products being machined or
assembled in industry have adjustments that control the degree of tension
against the arm that puts pressure against the OC condition. There is an
adjustable nut to control this - Locking pliers the same way. Hit them hard
or vibrate these devices and they will open if the adjustment isn't such
that the lock is firm. The gear lock in the cockpit does not put pressure
into the joint, so while it helps, it's really a 'late' way to save the day.
It does not modify the geometry of the parts by forcing increased pressure
into the components.
When there is no weight on the wheel, pressure into the OC condition is held
in the static state by the shock cord. I would submit that the degree of
tension on the shock cord has a significant bearing on the integrity of the
system. And the criteria for shock cord tightness, is only the degree of
'effective assistance to raise the wheel' .
I am considering going further OC on my ship, however, that will require
repositioning the gear handle half the four bolt holes, or less, so will
likely require pinning. It also means that 'popping' it out of the OC
locked position will be more difficult when trying to raise the gear. Of
course a better solution is to put pressure into the system. This could
possibly be done inside the cockpit with an OC clamp on the gear lever -
with the slot modified to allow it to be pulled rearward.. The clamps I
referred to above come in a J-hook pull style, which could keep rearward
pressure on the Gear lever in the aft condition. Giving correct meaning in
the Mono to 'Gear down and Locked'.
Cleve Lee
A198 Mono XS Jabiru 3300
Wings closed, top on, sanding...sanding...sanding...
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Undercarriage Overcentre Locking |
Merely holding the lever back doesn't necessarily work, as the
'undercentre' forces, once they take over, will just bend the gear
retraction lever.
This can be exacerbated by slackness in the bolt holes that secure the
lever to the retraction arms, despite the bolts being tight.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: clevelee@earthlink.net
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Undercarriage Overcentre Locking
Graeme,
I'm building A198 - now moved with me to Market Harborough, and I've
been studying/worrying about the overcenter (OC) position and have come
to the same conclusion about the marginal amount of factory designed
overcenter provided. I believe this might be a compromise - as too far
overcenter and you fight the shock cord tension to raise the gear.
While the machining of the gear components is quite precise, I believe
the stops are part of a weldment - which is considerably less so.
Overcenter toggle clamps used for holding products being machined or
assembled in industry have adjustments that control the degree of
tension against the arm that puts pressure against the OC condition.
There is an adjustable nut to control this - Locking pliers the same
way. Hit them hard or vibrate these devices and they will open if the
adjustment isn't such that the lock is firm. The gear lock in the
cockpit does not put pressure into the joint, so while it helps, it's
really a 'late' way to save the day. It does not modify the geometry of
the parts by forcing increased pressure into the components.
When there is no weight on the wheel, pressure into the OC condition
is held in the static state by the shock cord. I would submit that the
degree of tension on the shock cord has a significant bearing on the
integrity of the system. And the criteria for shock cord tightness, is
only the degree of 'effective assistance to raise the wheel' .
I am considering going further OC on my ship, however, that will
require repositioning the gear handle half the four bolt holes, or less,
so will likely require pinning. It also means that 'popping' it out of
the OC locked position will be more difficult when trying to raise the
gear. Of course a better solution is to put pressure into the system.
This could possibly be done inside the cockpit with an OC clamp on the
gear lever - with the slot modified to allow it to be pulled rearward..
The clamps I referred to above come in a J-hook pull style, which could
keep rearward pressure on the Gear lever in the aft condition. Giving
correct meaning in the Mono to 'Gear down and Locked'.
Cleve Lee
A198 Mono XS Jabiru 3300
Wings closed, top on, sanding...sanding...sanding...
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Mono gear collapse |
The problem with kit aircraft is that you have to 'reverse engineer' the
manual to try to understand what the designer intended, and then check
that the components received come close.
A set of engineering drawings/plans would make it all so much easier!
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Boulet
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono gear collapse
The gear lever was down and locked. My collapse occured after landing
roll out at about 5 kts ground speed. A slight bump caused it to bounce
off center and totally distort/destroy the gear lever and all the
mechanisms attached to it. The build manual is wrong and if it had been
correct this never would have happened.
I'm surmising most of this because the accident occured with my test
pilot at the controls. Also I did not perform the teardown/rebuild
converstion to tri gear- my builder assist center performed this.
Words to the wise.... take a look at someone else's mono gear
retraction mechanism before accepting the manual's instructions as the
gospel truth.
Paul Boulet N914PB
----- Original Message ----
From: Steve Crimm <steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 9:02:14 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mono gear collapse
<steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>
Question...
When the gear collapsed, what was the position of the gear lever after
the
collapse? In the down or up position?
Steve Crimm
N42AH
For Sale
www.stephenscott.com/Europa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus
Kyle
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 11:40
To: EUROPALIST
Subject: Europa-List: Mono gear collapse
I was saddened to hear of that event - especially on
take-off..........
and, of course because I contemplate the same possibility.
Is there a spot in the gear-down structure where the insertion of a
bar/lever/whatever mightr inhibit an over-centre travel on a bumpy
take-off
(one which I may see fairly often up north)? It might also stop
inadvertent
gear-up on display stands.
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
= --> http://www.matroni= blank"
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com===
========
Message 9
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| Subject: | Mono gear collapse |
Answer.... That all depends on what you mean by "when the gear collapsed..."
it was a process that occupied a period of time, albeit a short one. Up
until the point that the aircraft came back down to earth after the surge
over the ski jump, the gear lever was in the down and locked position. When
the wheel hit the ground again (with the overcentre lock now in an
undercentre position) and the full weight of the aircraft was applied to the
LG12 lever, the mod 51 strut, the down gate etc etc, the lever took a bit
less than a blink of an eye to move to the "gear up" position -- I'm glad I
didn't have my hand in the way it would have been amputated. Since there is
no "up stop" on the Europa mono landing gear, the wheel was thrust up to the
top of the wheelwell where it wore all the paint off the flap lever and
ground away the bottom of the throttle box, filling the cockpit with nasty
smelling black smoke.
I presume that the point of your question is along the lines of why didn't
the little toggle lock or the LG12 lever or the down gate or whatever, stop
the gear from retracting, but be aware -- all that stuff in the cockpit is
there to stop you inadvertently retracting the gear, e.g. by bumping it with
your hand, there is no way that any of that stuff can take the undercarriage
loads -- they must be taken by the landing gear frame and that only happens
if the gear is 'overcentre'.
I know that the LG12 was securely in the downgate, and that the little
toggle lock was down when the aircraft hit the ground again, because it was
all damaged by the impact. When the overcentre gave way, the full
undercarriage loading was borne by the LG12 lever (but only for a VERY short
time) -- the LG12 was bent, the mod51 strut is now about 1cm shorter than
before and the lever guide plate, into which the slot and the downgate are
cut, was prised from the top of the tunnel. Believe me, if the gear is not
locked over centre everything goes belly up (literally).
Regards,
Graeme
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Crimm
Sent: 25 February 2007 17:02
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mono gear collapse
<steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>
Question...
When the gear collapsed, what was the position of the gear lever after the
collapse? In the down or up position?
Steve Crimm
N42AH
For Sale
www.stephenscott.com/Europa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 11:40
Subject: Europa-List: Mono gear collapse
I was saddened to hear of that event - especially on take-off..........
and, of course because I contemplate the same possibility.
Is there a spot in the gear-down structure where the insertion of a
bar/lever/whatever mightr inhibit an over-centre travel on a bumpy take-off
(one which I may see fairly often up north)? It might also stop inadvertent
gear-up on display stands.
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Mono gear collapse |
Fergus,
I've tried to think of all kinds of safety mechanisms, I've come to the
conclusion that the only hope is to increase the degree of overcentre
locking and to ensure that when the LG12 is in the downgate, the LG08s are
jammed hard against the stops and there is no play anywhere to allow the
overcentre to be 'tripped' by a severe unloading of the suspension such as
would have happened when my aircraft surged over that bump. When it first
hit the bump, the suspension would have been fully compressed, then when the
wheel left the ground the suspension would have been very suddenly unloaded
and would have snapped back so fast that it must have tripped the overcentre
lock. Then when the wheel hit the ground again with the full weight of the
aircraft (plus g forces), there was nothing there to take the load except
the LG12 lever and the downgate in the cockpit ... Game over!
Graeme
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Sent: 25 February 2007 16:40
Subject: Europa-List: Mono gear collapse
I was saddened to hear of that event - especially on take-off..........
and, of course because I contemplate the same possibility.
Is there a spot in the gear-down structure where the insertion of a
bar/lever/whatever mightr inhibit an over-centre travel on a bumpy take-off
(one which I may see fairly often up north)? It might also stop inadvertent
gear-up on display stands.
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
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| Subject: | Mono gear collapse |
Glenn,
My little finger latch works great as well, but don't misunderstand its
purpose. It is there to stop you accidentally retracting the gear, it is not
able to take the full landing loads of the aircraft. If your overcentre
locking is not working, that little finger latch won't save you, see
explanation in replies to other posts on this subject.
Regards,
Graeme
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GLENN CROWDER
Sent: 25 February 2007 17:34
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mono gear collapse
I thought all Europa monos have the little finger latch that I has to be
lifted first before
retracting the undercarraige. The latch fits in a little slot that stops
any movement
of the retraction lever. Maybe the original builder added this as a mod but
it works
great for me! Very easy to use.
Glenn
>From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>To: "EUROPALIST" <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Europa-List: Mono gear collapse
>Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:40:03 -0500
>
>
>I was saddened to hear of that event - especially on take-off..........
>and, of course because I contemplate the same possibility.
>Is there a spot in the gear-down structure where the insertion of a
>bar/lever/whatever mightr inhibit an over-centre travel on a bumpy take-off
>(one which I may see fairly often up north)? It might also stop
>inadvertent gear-up on display stands.
>
>Ferg Kyle
>Europa A064 914 Classic
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more..then map the best route!
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Undercarriage Overcentre Locking |
Ron,
Thanks very much for the info and your experience with the over centre
locking -- very valuable!
When I say I measured the overcentre, I really meant that I eyeballed it by
sighting along the centres. It was over centre but only by a very small
amount (maybe 1/16"). There is nothing in the manual to say how much past
centre it should be. You say Andy said 1/8" would be the limit, that's good
to know. I have now ground away the stops, another constraint is contact
between the LG08P and the LG mounting frame. There is a scalloped area in
LG08P to provide clearance against the frame, removing more than a couple of
mm from the stops quickly brings LG08P very close to the frame.
I don't understand the bit about overloading the landing gear frame, surely
this must be designed to take the full landing load which would mostly pass
through the reaction plates to the stops, with some load being taken by the
top attach point on the LG frame??
Regards,
Graeme
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
Sent: 23 February 2007 23:40
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Undercarriage Overcentre Locking
Hello Graeme
I am not flying my XS mono yet (A-265 picked up April 2003). When building
I mounted my gear on a fixture and was able to study and fool with till I
was satisfied I fully understood it's operation.
First off you said you measured the over center, how did you measure it?
First off you need to make sure that the rubber spring block is compressed
to proper dimension. The more you tighten, the more overcentre you will
see. If for some reason the gap becomes less than called out for, you will
start ooching towards undercentre. I used a thin straight edge resting on
the edge of 3 pins that are the same diameter. The top pin is the pivot
pin that attaches to LG08s, the bottom pin is LG04, and the middle pin is
a little tricky, I made an insert that fits in the middle of LG08 tube
with a pin protruding the same size as the prior 2 mentioned. Now I have 3
points and can measure overcentre.
To my horror, 1 side was under centre and the other just bout neutral! I
ground down stops to where there was just a tad over 1/16" overcentre. You
need to be very careful you don't over do this as it will begin to put
much stress on UCMF. I forget the exact number that Andy said, but perhaps
1/8" was the limit.
The top of stop was gone when I achieved 1/16" on 1 side and the other
side was paper thin. What I did was grind down to 1/8" overcentre, and
inserted with Redux/Flox a pretty hard and stiff piece of polyurethane I
got from McMaster Carr, and pinned it after cure with a bolt. The
overcentre is just a tad over 1/16" on the polyurethane. Andy gave my
kluge a thumbs up.
Please don't overlook the connection between LG08P and the retraction
lever. I was careful to ream these 3 holes and scuff sand and Redux this
joint, and installed the mod that reinforces this connection as well. If
this joint has any movement when the lever is in the down and locked
position, it may not be ramming and jamming the LG08s against the UCMF
stops.
I also made a spring return for the down stop lock where it is very
positive in keeping it where you want it.
Once all was assembled on aircraft, the stops were not hitting absolute
the same time. Splitting hairs here, but I put a piece or 2 of some
Stainless Steel tape as a shim. You can get small pieces of that tape from
Lockwood Aviation, they sell it as prop lead edge tape, or
www.mcmaster.com sells it by the roll.
Hope this helps.
Ron Parigoris
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Canadian Europa |
Hi Mike, I fly a Europa classic tri gear out of Pincher Creek Alberta
Canada.My bird has a Jabiru 3300 witha Prince P-Tip prop the kit# A-026
and Can reg C=FIYD.If you are ever up this way please drop in and
visit and we will go flying in the Canadian Rockies. Frank Wood
----- Original Message -----
From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 11:53 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Canadian Europa
Are there any Canadian Europa builders on the list?
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Canadian Europa |
Hi Frank,
Thanks for the invite. The wife and I have done the BC touring as part of
our NorthWest adventure. We made our way from Victoria, through Vancouver,
Mission, Penticton, Kelowna, Revelstoke, Lake Louise, Banff, Calgary, then south
through Cardston. So how close did we come to your town? We have friends
that live in Mission and we get up to see them from time to time.
If you ever get down through this area give us a call....we have a spare
bedroom and maybe a conventional gear Europa to fly in about a year or two.
(Gosh, I hope)
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
Do Not Archive
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Undercarriage Overcentre Locking |
Hello Graeme
Lets see if can help you get to the bottom of your bottoming.
First and foremost, you can not use your "Eyechrometer" to measure
overcentre ---- period.
I will match my calibrated "Eyechrometer" with any Europa builder. I can
work to a few 1/10,000" on torque tube drive pin fit, and work with
1/100,000" fitting together a Cox .020 model aeroplane engine.
You need to take precise measurement, I initial tried to sight, no way can
you eyeball 1/16".
I fooled for some time with my gear on a solid fixture, with shock
absorber out and the tyre moved up and down precise with a hydraulic pump
jack. Very enlightening.
I suggest especial if you have your bungi out, take tyre off, and shock
absorber out but bolts in place and run swingarm up and down through its
travel, while you measure overcentre on the 3 points I initial described.
You need a thin straight edge, either thin high strength aluminium or
stainless. A thin ruler may work, but keep checking that straight remains
true.
You first need to get in your head the fact the further down the swingarm
goes the less overcenter things will be when LG08s are against stop, and
the further up the swingarm goes, the more overcentre things will become.
I have no doubt that pushing a pencil on paper, someone calculated loads
and birth of a undercarriage mounting frame was hatched. Remember that
this was unacceptable, as the overcentre load on the stops was failing the
frame. The reason for this failure you will see if you check as I
described, compress shock absorber and overcentre increases. OK then when
real world proved not strong enough, beef was added. Nothing wrong with
this.
On paper lets say 1/32" or 1/16" overcentre is called for, and on paper it
is proved that this is just fine. Is real world really the desired amount
of overcentre? Mine was not for sure. Was my LG08s really as per drawing
as far as placement of holes and position of stops? I have a fair share of
time welding 4130 tubing. Was proper fixtures used, correct length
components and order of tacking and welding proper, and calibrated sledge
hammer used to keep things on track really used to produce stops and pivot
points in the right place? Was my frame checked against a go no/go fixture
after it was completed? Also the top and bottom actuation plates, how
much bow are in these when you are trying to achieve 3.1", and then when
there is a bow, what point do you measure?
I needed to make a spacer or spacers (I forget exact but will check if you
need) to space 1 or both LG08s from UCMF. In addition I needed to releive
some of LG08 (perhaps both) to achieve acceptable clearance from UCMF. And
final I needed to grind the head down, quite substantial from one of the
bolts so it didn't hit the UCMF on the port side. Bottom line is all
components need to equate to overcentre. Any one of the mentioned can
skunk you into too little. My UCMF came in with a pretty poor excuse for
white powder coating on it, scratches and flaking abounded. Stripped,
sandblasted with Al/Ox, prmed and painted.
You will also notice that when you push the swingarm up, that clearance
between the downstop on tunnel and the lever develops. This is normal due
to increasing overcentre action. I anticipated that a bounce will grow
this clearance, and a relaunch as you describe will bang the lever hard
against this stop. I have my lever and stop angle tainted where the lever
will be forced inboard by a minor angle, and have lever bent so that there
is spring action pushing the lever inboard.
If you do not have access to obtain a proper measuring tool, E-mail me
with dimensions you need and I will make one for you, then you can give it
to the Europa Club for loan out to anyone who wants to measure theirs.
I could have welded a cap on my UCMF, but I already had it painted, so the
urethane inserts was a neat way to get precise length. I also did not like
the bang I was able to create when the LG08s hit the stops. The Urethane
helped out with bang. I first ground and filed stops till I had 1/8"
hitting LG08s precise, then made Urethane inserts to bring it to 1/16".
Worst case is it will be 1/8", probably OK, I would not want to try 1/4",
forces grow awful fast. I actual did calculation, and adding just an extra
1/16" increases stop loads on UCMF when shock absorber is compressed by a
lot.
I made a somewhat structural upstop for swingarm. It is a piece of 3/4"
marine plywood just ahead of the tyre and aft of the retracted shock
absorber. I have it glassed to the tunnel sides, and also screwed and
resting on a extruded aluminium channel that is drilled to look like swiss
cheese and glassed to the tunnel sides as well.
If your joint is with no movement between gear lever and LG08 because of
tight fitting bolts, Redux and Mod to stiffen this joint, and you truly
had some overcentre, then my dart throw would be your 3.1" grew to make it
undercentre.
That said I suspect you simply did not have enough overcentre, and
probably undercentre at least on 1 stop like mine, and you know the rest.
Please do a thorough inspect of your gear, make sure no broken or bent
components, please post exact over or under centre you find. Check to make
sure there is a secure mount to swingarm for the bottom of shock absorber
stuff.
I have my gear slot set so I need to pull pretty hard on lever without
bungee but with full undercarriage weight installed, this is the time I
set my 3.1" and also set my overcentre.
Good Luck.
Ron Parigoris
Message 16
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| Subject: | Mono gear collapse |
> Words to the wise.... take a look at someone else's mono gear
retraction mechanism before accepting the manual's instructions as the
gospel truth.
Paul,
Specifically, what are the instructions to which you refer in the manual
? You've lost me at the moment.
Regards
Kingsley in Oz
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Mono gear collapse |
It was always interesting to note the company requiring a minimum 2 cm clearance
between the top of the wheel and the fuselage line with the gear down. After
installing the undercarriage and then the weight of the engine etc my clearance
is below the 2cm. However on reading the over centre problem and undercarriage
coming up after a bump on T/O I would summise that perhaps the 2cm clearance
requirement should not be stated. To remain in the over centre safe position
(u/c down) the clearance is irrelevant and maybe why builders have taken it
into account and therefore the undercarriage is too close to the over centre
neutral position needing only a bump to reverse it.
Just a thought.
I had my u/c come up for a different reason, the rebate lock moved up after a bumpy
landing allowing the lever to move IN SLOW MOTION up. The remedy is a $2
piano wire fix to spring load the latch in the down position. I have the details
of that installation if anyone wants it. Could save you some money!!!
Tim
--
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street
Fendalton
Christchurch.
Ph. 64 33515166
MOB 0210640221
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
---- Duncan & Ami McFadyean <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> The problem with kit aircraft is that you have to 'reverse engineer' the manual
to try to understand what the designer intended, and then check that the components
received come close.
> A set of engineering drawings/plans would make it all so much easier!
>
> Duncan McF.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Boulet
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 5:57 PM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono gear collapse
>
>
> The gear lever was down and locked. My collapse occured after landing roll
out at about 5 kts ground speed. A slight bump caused it to bounce off center
and totally distort/destroy the gear lever and all the mechanisms attached to
it. The build manual is wrong and if it had been correct this never would have
happened.
>
> I'm surmising most of this because the accident occured with my test pilot
at the controls. Also I did not perform the teardown/rebuild converstion to tri
gear- my builder assist center performed this.
>
> Words to the wise.... take a look at someone else's mono gear retraction mechanism
before accepting the manual's instructions as the gospel truth.
>
> Paul Boulet N914PB
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Steve Crimm <steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 9:02:14 AM
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mono gear collapse
>
>
>
> Question...
>
> When the gear collapsed, what was the position of the gear lever after the
> collapse? In the down or up position?
>
> Steve Crimm
> N42AH
> For Sale
> www.stephenscott.com/Europa
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 11:40
> To: EUROPALIST
> Subject: Europa-List: Mono gear collapse
>
>
> I was saddened to hear of that event - especially on take-off..........
> and, of course because I contemplate the same possibility.
> Is there a spot in the gear-down structure where the insertion of a
> bar/lever/whatever mightr inhibit an over-centre travel on a bumpy take-off
> (one which I may see fairly often up north)? It might also stop inadvertent
> gear-up on display stands.
>
> Ferg Kyle
> Europa A064 914 Classic
>
>
>
>
>
>
> = --> http://www.matroni= blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com===========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Europa "Touring Motorglider" |
Et All
FYI
There is a relatively new Yahoo group called "Touring_MG"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Touring_MG/ that I just found out about. Not
to take away from this Europa group but to supplement it with those that
have their aircraft certified as a "Glider" and other motorglider
enthusiasts. Maybe we can even bring a few over to our side.
Steve
N42AH
For Sale
www.stephenscott.com/Europa
Message 19
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| Subject: | Undercarriage Overcentre Locking |
Hello Graeme
Thinking about overall system, if one wing was slight low before main
wheel took full force just before ski jump occurred, if that low wing
outrigger latch decided to disengage, any rearward force on the outrigger
would equate to flap up force, and flap up force would equate to force on
starboard LG08 to be forced aft, or undercentre??
Was either of your outriggers collapsed?
Ron Parigoris
Message 20
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| Subject: | she did what she was supposed to do |
it is my sad duty (well, glad - I am reporting it myself) that N81EU was
lost tonight on a take-off failure with me and Kim Prout aboard.,
The Rotax 912 failed on take-off and running out of options I had to put her
down at the end of the runway with a droop and fence ahead.
Plane came to a rest in a quarry after shearing off the landing gear
(trigear) and tearing off the firewall foward.
It is a miracle that Kim and me walked away and I fully attribute it to the
design of the central tunnel and the wheel attachment that we're not only
alive but walked away unharmed from a complete crash,
The flying surfaces seem unhamarmed as well as the fuselelage except the
firewall foward (which broke off 1oo %) and the gears which were lost about
2oo feet short off the crash site.
It is very early to say anything - the engine was fine - we worked on it the
entire afternoon and found it to be very smooth - I fear I installed as new
fuel filter which should not have been there - more later.
Anyway - we're alive (and having our share of Whiskey) and I promise you ...
you will hear again of N81EU.
Thanks to the designer who made her this crashworthy - N18EU now has 890 hrs
under her belly and never missed a beat (Rotax 912).
more later
<Thomas N81EU>
PS: the only pain we can report of is on our feet - after the firewall
sheared off our feet were in the void and got hurt on the last impact. She
was flying right to the end. Europa rulez !
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: she did what she was supposed to do |
Wow.... my empathy to you and Kim.... congrats are in order not just to the
designer but to the pilot for cool thinking in a crisis situation. Thank
you for your candid report of this terrible situation. May you quickly get
your bird repaired and into the air soon!=0A=0APaul Boulet, N914PB, Malibu
, California=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Thomas Scherer <thoma
s@scherer.com>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, February 25,
2007 8:57:05 PM=0ASubject: Europa-List: she did what she was supposed to d
com>=0A=0Ait is my sad duty (well, glad - I am reporting it myself) that N8
1EU was =0Alost tonight on a take-off failure with me and Kim Prout aboard.
,=0A=0AThe Rotax 912 failed on take-off and running out of options I had to
put her =0Adown at the end of the runway with a droop and fence ahead.=0A
=0APlane came to a rest in a quarry after shearing off the landing gear =0A
(trigear) and tearing off the firewall foward.=0A=0AIt is a miracle that Ki
m and me walked away and I fully attribute it to the =0Adesign of the centr
al tunnel and the wheel attachment that we're not only =0Aalive but walked
away unharmed from a complete crash,=0A=0AThe flying surfaces seem unhamarm
ed as well as the fuselelage except the =0Afirewall foward (which broke off
1oo %) and the gears which were lost about =0A2oo feet short off the cras
h site.=0A=0AIt is very early to say anything - the engine was fine - we wo
rked on it the =0Aentire afternoon and found it to be very smooth - I fear
I installed as new =0Afuel filter which should not have been there - more l
ater.=0A=0AAnyway - we're alive (and having our share of Whiskey) and I pro
mise you ... =0Ayou will hear again of N81EU.=0A=0AThanks to the designer w
ho made her this crashworthy - N18EU now has 890 hrs =0Aunder her belly and
never missed a beat (Rotax 912).=0A=0Amore later=0A=0A<Thomas N81EU>=0A=0A
PS: the only pain we can report of is on our feet - after the firewall =0As
heared off our feet were in the void and got hurt on the last impact. She
====================0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: she did what she was supposed to do |
Very happy to hear you are both OK.Wow.
Did it happen at Cable? Nevermind... have another drink you two... very
happy indeed.
All the Best to you both, Kevin Klinefelter
Thomas Scherer wrote:
>
> it is my sad duty (well, glad - I am reporting it myself) that N81EU
> was lost tonight on a take-off failure with me and Kim Prout aboard.,
>
> The Rotax 912 failed on take-off and running out of options I had to
> put her down at the end of the runway with a droop and fence ahead.
>
> Plane came to a rest in a quarry after shearing off the landing gear
> (trigear) and tearing off the firewall foward.
>
> It is a miracle that Kim and me walked away and I fully attribute it
> to the design of the central tunnel and the wheel attachment that
> we're not only alive but walked away unharmed from a complete crash,
>
> The flying surfaces seem unhamarmed as well as the fuselelage except
> the firewall foward (which broke off 1oo %) and the gears which were
> lost about 2oo feet short off the crash site.
>
> It is very early to say anything - the engine was fine - we worked on
> it the entire afternoon and found it to be very smooth - I fear I
> installed as new fuel filter which should not have been there - more
> later.
>
> Anyway - we're alive (and having our share of Whiskey) and I promise
> you ... you will hear again of N81EU.
>
> Thanks to the designer who made her this crashworthy - N18EU now has
> 890 hrs under her belly and never missed a beat (Rotax 912).
>
> more later
>
> <Thomas N81EU>
>
> PS: the only pain we can report of is on our feet - after the firewall
> sheared off our feet were in the void and got hurt on the last impact.
> She was flying right to the end. Europa rulez !
>
>
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