Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:05 AM - Re: she did what she was supposed to do (R.C.Harrison)
2. 01:12 AM - Re: she did what she was supposed to do (William Harrison)
3. 01:13 AM - Re: she did what she was supposed to do (Roger Sheridan)
4. 01:52 AM - Re: Perspective Europa XS purchase - Questions for the group (roger cullum)
5. 02:13 AM - Re Mono wheel collapse (p-a.austin)
6. 02:50 AM - Flying a foreign Europa to the UK (=?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Guerner?=)
7. 03:06 AM - Re: Flying a foreign Europa to the UK (Gilles Thesee)
8. 06:38 AM - Europa Club (Brian Davies)
9. 09:37 AM - Re: she did what she was supposed to do (GLENN CROWDER)
10. 09:50 AM - Re: she did what she was supposed to do (karelvranken)
11. 10:36 AM - Re: she did what she was supposed to do (Fred Klein)
12. 11:32 AM - Mono gear collapse (Fergus Kyle)
13. 01:05 PM - Re: Mono gear collapse (josok)
14. 03:05 PM - Re: Undercarriage Overcentre Locking (SteveD)
15. 10:13 PM - a bit off topic- Bugatti Veyron - At Top Speed (Paul Boulet)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | she did what she was supposed to do |
Hi! Thomas.
Sad to hear the news about the a/c and pleased you are generally OK.
Unfortunately on take off it only needs to miss "one beat", I'm
wondering if you had been able to do a long full power test prior to
departure? When I had my fuel blockage (due to drilling restrictions in
the tank connectors) I had been unable to restrain the a/c on the trike
gear brakes on full power for longer than to "bounce" the max. RPM on
the tacho. I then resorted to lengthy full power checks with one brake
only (so long as folks are clear!)
It does look like you are a lunatic but allows an extended full power
run up. Anyway Having done it I still had first main tank engine fail
followed by reserve tank engine fail in the same take off run but with a
runway about 2 miles long ! (no damage occurred)However ................
I am still in the repair process of G-PTAG since a nose wheel yoke
departure last May so take some comfort that you aren't alone in your
trials!
Hopefully your replacement Rotax becomes available quicker than mine
which is due in April.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas
Scherer
Sent: 26 February 2007 04:57
Subject: Europa-List: she did what she was supposed to do
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: she did what she was supposed to do |
Hey, Thomas, any landing you can walk away from is a good landing.
What is the story regarding the fuel filter?
Hope you get back on the horse soon.
Cheers
Willie Harrison
On 26 Feb 2007, at 04:57, Thomas Scherer wrote:
> <thomas@scherer.com>
>
> it is my sad duty (well, glad - I am reporting it myself) that
> N81EU was lost tonight on a take-off failure with me and Kim Prout
> aboard.,
>
> The Rotax 912 failed on take-off and running out of options I had
> to put her down at the end of the runway with a droop and fence ahead.
>
> Plane came to a rest in a quarry after shearing off the landing
> gear (trigear) and tearing off the firewall foward.
>
> It is a miracle that Kim and me walked away and I fully attribute
> it to the design of the central tunnel and the wheel attachment
> that we're not only alive but walked away unharmed from a complete
> crash,
>
> The flying surfaces seem unhamarmed as well as the fuselelage
> except the firewall foward (which broke off 1oo %) and the gears
> which were lost about 2oo feet short off the crash site.
>
> It is very early to say anything - the engine was fine - we worked
> on it the entire afternoon and found it to be very smooth - I fear
> I installed as new fuel filter which should not have been there -
> more later.
>
> Anyway - we're alive (and having our share of Whiskey) and I
> promise you ... you will hear again of N81EU.
>
> Thanks to the designer who made her this crashworthy - N18EU now
> has 890 hrs under her belly and never missed a beat (Rotax 912).
>
> more later
>
> <Thomas N81EU>
>
> PS: the only pain we can report of is on our feet - after the
> firewall sheared off our feet were in the void and got hurt on the
> last impact. She was flying right to the end. Europa rulez !
>
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: she did what she was supposed to do |
Glad to hear you are both OK, it sounds like you did a good job Thomas.
I think that for even the most careful of us "fate is the hunter".
Good luck with the rebuild, aufweidersehn
Roger
On 26 Feb 2007, at 04:57, Thomas Scherer wrote:
> <thomas@scherer.com>
___________________________________________________________
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Perspective Europa XS purchase - Questions for the group |
>From: William Harrison <willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk>
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Perspective Europa XS purchase - Questions for
>the group
>Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 17:13:59 +0000
>
><willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk>
>
>Hi Jos
>
>Can I answer your second question first? The Europa is for me a return to
>a PFA type after 15 years of flying a certified type. Previously I had a
>share in a plans-built Jodel which was massive fun to fly but a death
>trap. I was dismayed then by the low standard of workmanship which had
>obviously been passed when the aircraft was built and also by the lax
>standard of the yearly inspection. After two engine failures within a year
>I went off to find something more dependable. When I bought the Europa
>(Total time 12 hours when purchased) it was with the blind faith that
>things must have moved on - better designs, better build standards
>required and better annual inspections. The good news is that there are
>obviously some superb inspectors out there with huge knowledge of Europas
>- my inspector, Tony Kay, is utterly strict when he needs to be, sensibly
>pragmatic when he can be and always very helpful - in all respects a top
>man. Having built his own monowheel and having inspected many other
>Europas, he knew exactly where to look for problems with my aircraft and
>boy did he find them (see later). The bad news is that there are clearly
>also inspectors out there (I can't name individuals in writing, the laws
>of defamation being what they are) who have signed off appalling
>workmanship, either because they didn't spot it or perhaps because they
>didn't think it mattered.
>
>Anyway, here's a list of the things I can recall:
>
>- The fuel tank was resting on the screws which secure the inspection
>panels under the fuselage - it was only a matter of time before the screws
>would have chiselled their way through the tank)
>
>- Elevator total travel was below the required spec (by 1 degree)
>
>- The exhaust stub was put on at the wrong angle causing later heat damage
>to the port side fuselage
>
>- The rudder cables were fouling in about 8 places in total (including
>against the brake pipes which were being sawn through, and the edge of the
>tank likewise).
>
>- Rudder linkage was fouling badly on firewall
>
>- Lots of minor but mandatory items were missing: switch and circuit
>breaker i/ds, on/off placards, limits for T's and P's and airspeeds
>
>- Coolant hose routed too close to exhaust (and scorched as a result)
>
>- Starter-engaged warning light not connected
>
>- Alternator warning light missing
>
>- Fuel filler pipe wrongly assembled and leaking as a result (the tank was
>routinely dumping top 15 litres into the baggage area when filled).
>
>- Instrument panel fixing screws were all insecure and virtually every
>instrument was either inoperative or had a significant problem.
>
>- The cable crimps at the regulator looked as if they had been done with
>pliers - one simply fell out. Elsewhere the wiring and vacuum piping was
>untidy at best.
>
>- The left and right tailplanes had an inch of slop measured at the
>trailing edge (max allowable I recall is 3/16) - this was not due to wear
>but apparently to the torque tube holes having been filed out to make
>assembly easier...
>
>- Aileron pushrod assembly incorrectly rivetted allowing freeplay
>
>- Missing lock nut in elevator mass balance assembly
>
>- Fireproofing sleeves missing on under cowl fuel pipes
>
>- Wrong material used for coolant overflow pipe
>
>- Missing sealant at holes in engine bulkhead
>
>- Several areas of snagging/fouling in aileron linkage
>
>- Numerous areas where fuel pipes were at risk of abrasion eg rubbing on
>aileron torque tube, rudder cables, hole through baggage bay rib etc
>
>- Speed kit incorrectly installed (flap hinge covers abrading flap hinges
>and U/C fairing fell off in flight)
>
>Quite a list as you see. I make no criticism of the builder - the PFA
>ethos is that you can take as many attempts as you need to meet the
>required build standard and the inspector will - should - keep failing the
>job until you get it right. It was the inspector who failed, not the
>builder. I am grateful to Tony Kay for helping me find and fix this little
>lot. We now have dealt with the dangerous faults (most of the above) and
>are now moving on to do a re-wire and panel rebuild to finish licking
>G-BZNY into shape. Fixing someone else's poor workmanship is a
>character-building task but the result has been worth it - as everyone
>knows, they are super aircraft if they are built right.
>
>Cheers!
>
>Willie Harrison
>
>
>On 21 Feb 2007, at 18:09, Jos Okhuijsen wrote:
>
>>
>>Hi Willie,
>>
>>Could you please detail what the build quality problems were?
>>We at least would know what to look out for from your experience.
>>Secondly, you are in the UK, so why did the inspector pass that plane?
>>Kind Regards,
>>
>>Jos Okhuijsen
>>
>>workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
>>http://www.europaowners.org/kit600
>>mono xs, blue stuff filled, sanded and primed, fuel system in, doors
>>done, windows in, filled and sanded, waiting for the painter, engine
>>installation, panel.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Rate your skiving credentials with our Slack-o-meter
http://www.slack-o-meter.com
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re Mono wheel collapse |
Graeme,
You wrote:-
When it first
> hit the bump, the suspension would have been fully compressed, then when
> the
> wheel left the ground the suspension would have been very suddenly
> unloaded
> and would have snapped back so fast that it must have tripped the
> overcentre
> lock.
Do you have Mod #29 fitted " Undercarriage spring damper" also known as
rebound dampers, if fitted and working ok they should inhibit what you
describe.
Peter
Builder #198
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Flying a foreign Europa to the UK |
Hi all,
I just discovered the Flying to the UK page on the Europa Club website and I am
puzzled by this new requirement. The CAA foreign aircraft exemption page says
:
If your aircraft is homebuilt, you do not need to apply to us for an Exemption.
Please see Airworthiness Notice 52 for more information.
Then the Airworthiness Notice 52 requires that prior to each visit to the UK,
the aircraft owner shall apply for an exemption.
Which one is right ?
Up to now, no exemption was necessary for homebuilts. This was based on reciprocal
agreements such as: the French authorities recognize PFA aircraft and allow
them to fly to France without prior permission, then the UK authorities do the
same with French homebuits. Same thing between most European countries (Spain
and Italy are still exceptions to this reasonable rule, as far as I know).
Having to apply for an exemption before each visit to the UK will be another burden
(added to high landing fees and the typical British weather!) and will contribute
to dissuade most of us to fly to the UK. What a pity!
Could anyone help to clarify the above requirement ?
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 435 hours
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flying a foreign Europa to the UK |
Rmi Guerner a crit :
>
> Up to now, no exemption was necessary for homebuilts. This was based
> on reciprocal agreements such as: the French authorities recognize PFA
> aircraft and allow them to fly to France without prior permission,
> then the UK authorities do the same with French homebuits. Same thing
> between most European countries (Spain and Italy are still exceptions
> to this reasonable rule, as far as I know).
>
>
>
> Having to apply for an exemption before each visit to the UK will be
> another burden (added to high landing fees and the typical British
> weather!) and will contribute to dissuade most of us to fly to the UK.
> What a pity!
>
>
>
Rmi,
You don't need to ask in the European Community.
Further, when you ask a permission that is not needed, you put the
"bureaucrat" in front of you in a position to say no. And then he'll ask
his boss, who won't know and ask his own boss, etc...
Many French MCRs regularly go to Britain without any problem.
> "Recommendation TNT. S11-1 of the European-Civil Aviation Conference
> (ECAC),
> > adopted at the eleventh Intermediate Session of ECAC in June 1980 states:
> >
> > That Member States accept home-built aircraft with a Certificate of
> > Airworthiness or a Permit to Fly issued by another Member State, to fly in
> > their country without any restrictions other than those stated in the
> > Certificate of Airworthiness or Permit to Fly.
> >
> >
> > 2 All ECAC Member States agreed to the recommendation and, in October
> > 1984, CAA implemented it on behalf of the United Kingdom by issuing an
> > Exemption, in the terms set out in Issue 1 of this Airworthiness Notice,
> > from compliance with the appropriate provisions of the Air Navigation Order
> > relating to Certificates of Airworthiness."
Hope this helps,
Amicalement,
Gilles,
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
The Europa Club website has now been updated and existing members can now
pay their subs by credit card and update their details online. Just go to
HYPERLINK "http://www.europaclub.org.uk"www.europaclub.org.uk and follow the
links.
Also, it is now much easier for new members to join via the website. Those
of you put off by the paperwork and payment system in the past- go take a
look and join up. It is still only UKP 15 a year. The new membership year
starts at the end of March but you can pay now if you want.
Regards
Brian Davies, Europa Club Membership Secretary
Do not archive
--
15:16
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | she did what she was supposed to do |
Wow Tom - glad you're OK. Just shows you can turn into a glider at any
time.
Sounds like the Europa is the plane I want to be in when I do an off field
landing!
I'm headed to the bar right now to celebrate your adventure!
Glenn
>From: "Thomas Scherer" <thomas@scherer.com>
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Europa-List: she did what she was supposed to do
>Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 20:57:05 -0800
>
>
>it is my sad duty (well, glad - I am reporting it myself) that N81EU was
>lost tonight on a take-off failure with me and Kim Prout aboard.,
>
>The Rotax 912 failed on take-off and running out of options I had to put
>her down at the end of the runway with a droop and fence ahead.
>
>Plane came to a rest in a quarry after shearing off the landing gear
>(trigear) and tearing off the firewall foward.
>
>It is a miracle that Kim and me walked away and I fully attribute it to the
>design of the central tunnel and the wheel attachment that we're not only
>alive but walked away unharmed from a complete crash,
>
>The flying surfaces seem unhamarmed as well as the fuselelage except the
>firewall foward (which broke off 1oo %) and the gears which were lost
>about 2oo feet short off the crash site.
>
>It is very early to say anything - the engine was fine - we worked on it
>the entire afternoon and found it to be very smooth - I fear I installed as
>new fuel filter which should not have been there - more later.
>
>Anyway - we're alive (and having our share of Whiskey) and I promise you
>... you will hear again of N81EU.
>
>Thanks to the designer who made her this crashworthy - N18EU now has 890
>hrs under her belly and never missed a beat (Rotax 912).
>
>more later
>
><Thomas N81EU>
>
>PS: the only pain we can report of is on our feet - after the firewall
>sheared off our feet were in the void and got hurt on the last impact. She
>was flying right to the end. Europa rulez !
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Find what you need at prices youll love. Compare products and save at MSN
Shopping.
http://shopping.msn.com/default/shp/?ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24102&tcode=T001MSN20A0701
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: she did what she was supposed to do |
Dear Thomas and Kim,
We realy feel sad for the accident and admire your courage.
Wish you both a quick recover.
Karel Vranken # 447 F-PKRL
----- Original Messaadmire your couragege -----
From: "Thomas Scherer" <thomas@scherer.com>
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 5:57 AM
Subject: Europa-List: she did what she was supposed to do
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mijn Postvak In wordt beschermd door SPAMfighter
0 spam-mails zijn er tot op heden geblokkeerd.
Download de gratis SPAMfighter vandaag nog!
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: she did what she was supposed to do |
Thomas,
I salute your airmanship skills in that suddenly very quiet moment and
hope that "the morning after" has you still walking around.
I'm looking forward to reading your debriefing which I'm sure will be
thorough. I'm particularly interested in knowing whether or not you had
installed any means by which the height of your shoulder straps was
raised as others have done to alleviate possible compression of
vertebrae in the event of the kind of accident you've experienced.
Fred
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Mono gear collapse |
Graeme,
Thanks for the clarifications - much as I surmised - the lowering
mechanism won't stop an overcentre interruption, or a collapse.
This brings me back to my original question: That there may be a
structural intervention which IS strong enough to inhibit collapse. Perhaps
insertion of a simple hydraulic cylinder? Of course this means a second (or
more) action to prepare for landing but I don't mind the extra work! The
distance-twixt-rubber-bumper-ends is intriguing..............
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Mono gear collapse |
Hi All,
It's a bit of a teaser, this thread about collapsing gear. Let me try my view on
this. The gear is per desgn over-center. It's ever so little, and i did not
really believe it. I moved the crates which supported the fuselage in the workshop
a bit aside, so that they were only balancing the act, and it was impossible
to raise the wheel. Support back in place and up she went. So i was happy
until this thread. Im my case there is no play on the lever in the down position
so far. So it can't get out of over center eh? The i remembered the demonstation
fligts, the gear comes up easy, almost jumps up, until halfway, when pressure
has to be applied. So it's the pressure on the flaps that will, on a bumpy
take off or landing, pull happely out-of-over-center. That is, if there is
any play in the system, more then the over center distance. Right?
Kind Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Undercarriage Overcentre Locking |
All I can say is listen to Ron, he kept after me to check my gear about a year
ago and it wasn't even close to being right. I don't think I would have made it
through taxi testing.
I've added some marked up drawings. see links.
I made a centering tool per Rons instructions for the swing arm. 3/4 inch socket
one wrap of tape, and a cut off piece of drill bit the same size as the lower
rod LG04.
I used the back of a long hack saw blade with a 1/16 drill bit taped to it as a
straight edge/ measuring tool. Just don't bend it while measuring.
Lots of grinding down of the stops, using Prussian blue to insure flat contact
face. From the factory the stops were too long and did not have a flat contact
face. I blued the stop, dropped the gear, raised the gear and the markers on
the forks were thin "C" shapes.
Checks were done with complete gear, wheel, and bungee in place.
Once again,
Thanks, Ron.
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Attachments:
http://www.europaowners.org//zfiles/tool_138.jpg
http://www.europaowners.org//zfiles/gear2_598.jpg
http://www.europaowners.org//zfiles/gear1_124.jpg
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | a bit off topic- Bugatti Veyron - At Top Speed |
=0AHi Folks;=0AThis is a bit off topic but worth every moment you spend dow
nloading it. I believe this is the fastest production automobile in the wo
rld... Meet the Bugatti =0AVeyron! It costs $1.4 Million Dollars!! It has
a 16 Cylinder Engine =0Amaking 1001 Horsepower!!! It has a theoretical To
p Speed of 407 KPH or 254 =0AMPH!!!! Click on the link below to watch it f
rom the inside out actually =0Adoing that speed for the very first time!!!!
! This is one of the most =0Aastounding videos I have ever watched=0A , so
make sure watch it in =93full screen=94 with your =0Avolume turned UP. Th
ey are only building 40 of these monsters and there is =0Aa 1 =BD year wait
ing list after you put a $250K deposit =0Adown. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ASo=0A
, order early=0A , and ENJOY THE =0ASHOW!!!!! Link is beneath the photo.
=0A=0A=0APaul Boulet, N914PB=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A=0A =0A =0A =0A
=0A =0A =0A =0A http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x15
7l2_bugatti-veyron-at-top-speed=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A
=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A
=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A
=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A--=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|