Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:16 AM - Re. mono gear collapse (Kingsley Hurst)
2. 07:20 AM - Re: Re. mono gear collapse - One way to make the lever stiffer (Rob Housman)
3. 09:30 AM - Re: Re. mono gear collapse (Simon Smith)
4. 09:52 AM - ACF 50 (Paul Stewart)
5. 11:02 AM - Re: ACF 50 (Jos Okhuijsen)
6. 11:20 AM - Re: ACF 50 (Paul Wilson)
7. 11:35 AM - Re: ACF 50 (Flying Farmer)
8. 11:46 AM - landing gear build order (William Daniell)
9. 12:55 PM - Re: landing gear build order (EuropaXSA276@aol.com)
10. 01:19 PM - Re: landing gear build order (Graham Singleton)
11. 02:44 PM - Re: landing gear build order (NevEyre@aol.com)
12. 04:27 PM - Re: landing gear build order (William Daniell)
13. 04:51 PM - Re: Re. mono gear collapse (Kingsley Hurst)
14. 11:45 PM - Re: landing gear build order (NevEyre@aol.com)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re. mono gear collapse |
Fellow Europaphiles (Mono believers only)
I think I made the list aware of this some time back but just in case I
didn't . . .
Take a look at the attached photos which are self explanatory and note
the packing which was necessary on one of the stops.
Of three undercarriage frames I have checked, all have had this problem.
I therefore suspect that YOURS might be like it too.
IOW, one stop is shorter than the other and when the LG08's are pinned
to the shaft, although they both touch their respective stops at the
same time, they (the LG08's) are not in the same plane. One is more
over-centre than the other. I'll leave it as an exercise to work out
what this could cause!
Cheers
Kingsley in Oz
Message 2
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Subject: | Re. mono gear collapse - One way to make the lever stiffer |
Being a Tri-Gear builder I can't comment on the mono, but I can correct a
minor misunderstanding regarding aluminum (aka, aluminium and, rarely,
Dural).
Aluminum alloys work harden; that is, when deformed the material gets
stronger, not softer as stated. Dural literally applies to the 2000 series
alloys and the lever in question is most likely 6061 not 2024 as implied.
Further, stiffness is not the same as hardness and stiffness being a
property of the base metal, is not affected by alloying, work hardening or
heat treatment. In technical terms, all aluminum alloys have the same
modulus of elasticity.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephan Cassel
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re. mono gear collapse - One way to make the lever
stiffer
Hi
I think both David and Graham have made the right conclusions.
The key thing is to make the gear lever as stiff as possible and no play
when it is in gear-down locked position.
One way to make the lever much stronger is NOT to bend the lever as per
manual. Keep it straight.
Moment may twist the lever, not much but enough to introduce a small play
when forces in not in one plan.
The optional strut will help but the strut is quite week. And Dural gets
much softer when you try to bend it.
The trick is to mount the lever on the other side of LG08S and use one
counter sink bolt and file the edge of the lever slightly, see link below
http://scassel.se/europa/cap4/images/DSCN1129.JPG (The smallest distance
between lever and the landing gear frame will be about 2 mm)
The lever will then go throw the tunnel exactly as per manual.
http://scassel.se/europa/cap4/images/DSCN1130.JPG
And, as David Joyce said, the joint between lever and LG08S must be solid as
rock. Sanded contact surfaces and Araldite 420 make that possible.
Regards Stephan
LN -STE. Permit to fly.
First flight when weather permits and then Pete Jeffers will kindly take
here up for the virgin flight.
Message 3
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Subject: | Re. mono gear collapse |
Kingsley,
In those photos the mount is resting on the engine mounting points. These
are offset toward the starboard side of the aircraft. I suspect that the
"error" that you found is supposed to be there.
Simon
G-BZTN
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Hurst
Sent: 05 March 2007 11:13
Subject: Europa-List: Re. mono gear collapse
Fellow Europaphiles (Mono believers only)
I think I made the list aware of this some time back but just in case I
didn't . . .
Take a look at the attached photos which are self explanatory and note the
packing which was necessary on one of the stops.
Of three undercarriage frames I have checked, all have had this problem. I
therefore suspect that YOURS might be like it too.
IOW, one stop is shorter than the other and when the LG08's are pinned to
the shaft, although they both touch their respective stops at the same time,
they (the LG08's) are not in the same plane. One is more over-centre than
the other. I'll leave it as an exercise to work out what this could cause!
Cheers
Kingsley in Oz
Message 4
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Anyone suggest where to get hold of ACF 50
REgards
Paul
G-GIDY
Message 5
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Call Roger at the factory,
worked for me,
Kind Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
--
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http://www.europaowners.org/kit600
mono xs, blue stuff filled, sanded and primed, fuel system in, doors
done, windows in, filled and sanded, waiting for the painter, engine
installation, panel.
Message 6
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Paul, Martin Jones at Egginton airfield (Airspeed Aviation) is near to
you ? 01283 733803
He is an agent for it, and sells it by the tin, bottle, gallon etc, also
various applicators , more economical than aerosols.
Paul.
> Anyone suggest where to get hold of ACF 50
>
> REgards
>
> Paul
> G-GIDY
Message 7
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Hi,
Just did a search on e-bay, and its full of the stuff
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 8
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Subject: | landing gear build order |
Which do you put in first in a tri gear? The legs or the compression strut
between the rear of the wings (W36 tie bar assembly)?
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: landing gear build order |
Hi William.
You will want to complete all of the bracing and lay-ups in the baggage bays
per chapter twenty-nine first. Those lay-up are a lot of work and you want
the area clear of that bar. ( It's about a 40 hour job to complete that
section)
In addition the lay-up will come up to the attachment area for the bar.
One more point. Those lay-up are much easier to do if the top is not bonded
on. However you will need a cradle with good support in order to do the job
without the top.
Brian Skelly
Europa XS TriGear #A276
North Texas USA
You can see my build photos at:
http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: landing gear build order |
William
imho its the legs, and its a tension strut btw. At very high angles of
attack the load pulls the wings forward. I found that hard to believe
too but it's true. It was first realized when an early glass glider
clapped its wings in a high G pullup and they clapped in front of the
pilots eyes. He survived to tell the tail.
Graham
William Daniell wrote:
>
>
> Which do you put in first in a tri gear? The legs or the compression strut
> between the rear of the wings (W36 tie bar assembly)?
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Graham Singleton
Tel: +441629820187
Mob: +447739582005
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: landing gear build order |
In a message dated 05/03/2007 19:49:04 GMT Standard Time,
wdaniell@etb.net.co writes:
Which do you put in first in a tri gear? The legs or the compression strut
between the rear of the wings (W36 tie bar assembly)?
Hi Will,
Get the leg socket in, with rib 1 bonded in, then ''dry fit'' the tie bar,
and trim rib 2 to clear the tie bar.Rather than sculpt away a hollow in rib 2
to clear the tie bar, go for a straight line from top of the socket, down
under the bar. Remove the bar, glass in rib 2.
Do the same ''dry fit'' for the forward inboard ribs. Do the lay up's onto
the tank bulkhead for the tie bar re-enforcement at the same time. Real bugger
to do with the top on, you will need to support the fuselage well if you
have the top off. Have the top on for the lift / drag socket / tie bar
installation.
If you have the top on already, get a left [ kack] handed helper to do the
Port side !
Have fun!
Cheers,
Nev.
Message 12
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Subject: | landing gear build order |
Well bugger me - I would never have guessed. Can someone explain?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
Singleton
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 16:19
Subject: Re: Europa-List: landing gear build order
<grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
William
imho its the legs, and its a tension strut btw. At very high angles of
attack the load pulls the wings forward. I found that hard to believe
too but it's true. It was first realized when an early glass glider
clapped its wings in a high G pullup and they clapped in front of the
pilots eyes. He survived to tell the tail.
Graham
William Daniell wrote:
>
>
> Which do you put in first in a tri gear? The legs or the compression
strut
> between the rear of the wings (W36 tie bar assembly)?
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Graham Singleton
Tel: +441629820187
Mob: +447739582005
Message 13
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Subject: | Re. mono gear collapse |
Simon,
You must compare BOTH photos. The frame was in the same position on the
bench when both were taken.
The frame was resting on the engine mounts but the purpose of photos was
to show the relationship between the stops and the housing for the shaft
that ties the LG08 's. A line drawn between the two stops was not
parallel to the axis of the shaft. Believe me, the stops were NOT
correct.
Anyway, my frame is a Classic one and as such does not have offset
engine mounts AFAIK.
Regards
Kingsley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Simon Smith
Sent: Tuesday, 6 March 2007 3:30 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re. mono gear collapse
Kingsley,
In those photos the mount is resting on the engine mounting points.
These are offset toward the starboard side of the aircraft. I suspect
that the "error" that you found is supposed to be there.
Simon
G-BZTN
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: landing gear build order |
In a message dated 05/03/2007 21:21:34 GMT Standard Time,
grahamsingleton@btinternet.com writes:
William
imho its the legs, and its a tension strut btw. At very high angles of
attack the load pulls the wings forward. I found that hard to believe
too but it's true. It was first realized when an early glass glider
clapped its wings in a high G pullup and they clapped in front of the
pilots eyes. He survived to tell the tail.
Graham
Hi Graham, after he survived to tell the tale, what was it he told the tail ?
Cheers,
Nev.
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