---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/05/07: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:16 AM - Re. mono gear collapse (Kingsley Hurst) 2. 07:20 AM - Re: Re. mono gear collapse - One way to make the lever stiffer (Rob Housman) 3. 09:30 AM - Re: Re. mono gear collapse (Simon Smith) 4. 09:52 AM - ACF 50 (Paul Stewart) 5. 11:02 AM - Re: ACF 50 (Jos Okhuijsen) 6. 11:20 AM - Re: ACF 50 (Paul Wilson) 7. 11:35 AM - Re: ACF 50 (Flying Farmer) 8. 11:46 AM - landing gear build order (William Daniell) 9. 12:55 PM - Re: landing gear build order (EuropaXSA276@aol.com) 10. 01:19 PM - Re: landing gear build order (Graham Singleton) 11. 02:44 PM - Re: landing gear build order (NevEyre@aol.com) 12. 04:27 PM - Re: landing gear build order (William Daniell) 13. 04:51 PM - Re: Re. mono gear collapse (Kingsley Hurst) 14. 11:45 PM - Re: landing gear build order (NevEyre@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:16:51 AM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Europa-List: Re. mono gear collapse Fellow Europaphiles (Mono believers only) I think I made the list aware of this some time back but just in case I didn't . . . Take a look at the attached photos which are self explanatory and note the packing which was necessary on one of the stops. Of three undercarriage frames I have checked, all have had this problem. I therefore suspect that YOURS might be like it too. IOW, one stop is shorter than the other and when the LG08's are pinned to the shaft, although they both touch their respective stops at the same time, they (the LG08's) are not in the same plane. One is more over-centre than the other. I'll leave it as an exercise to work out what this could cause! Cheers Kingsley in Oz ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:24 AM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re. mono gear collapse - One way to make the lever stiffer Being a Tri-Gear builder I can't comment on the mono, but I can correct a minor misunderstanding regarding aluminum (aka, aluminium and, rarely, Dural). Aluminum alloys work harden; that is, when deformed the material gets stronger, not softer as stated. Dural literally applies to the 2000 series alloys and the lever in question is most likely 6061 not 2024 as implied. Further, stiffness is not the same as hardness and stiffness being a property of the base metal, is not affected by alloying, work hardening or heat treatment. In technical terms, all aluminum alloys have the same modulus of elasticity. Best regards, Rob Housman Europa XS Tri-Gear S/N A070 Airframe complete From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephan Cassel Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 3:19 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re. mono gear collapse - One way to make the lever stiffer Hi I think both David and Graham have made the right conclusions. The key thing is to make the gear lever as stiff as possible and no play when it is in gear-down locked position. One way to make the lever much stronger is NOT to bend the lever as per manual. Keep it straight. Moment may twist the lever, not much but enough to introduce a small play when forces in not in one plan. The optional strut will help but the strut is quite week. And Dural gets much softer when you try to bend it. The trick is to mount the lever on the other side of LG08S and use one counter sink bolt and file the edge of the lever slightly, see link below http://scassel.se/europa/cap4/images/DSCN1129.JPG (The smallest distance between lever and the landing gear frame will be about 2 mm) The lever will then go throw the tunnel exactly as per manual. http://scassel.se/europa/cap4/images/DSCN1130.JPG And, as David Joyce said, the joint between lever and LG08S must be solid as rock. Sanded contact surfaces and Araldite 420 make that possible. Regards Stephan LN -STE. Permit to fly. First flight when weather permits and then Pete Jeffers will kindly take here up for the virgin flight. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:30:49 AM PST US From: "Simon Smith" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re. mono gear collapse Kingsley, In those photos the mount is resting on the engine mounting points. These are offset toward the starboard side of the aircraft. I suspect that the "error" that you found is supposed to be there. Simon G-BZTN _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Hurst Sent: 05 March 2007 11:13 Subject: Europa-List: Re. mono gear collapse Fellow Europaphiles (Mono believers only) I think I made the list aware of this some time back but just in case I didn't . . . Take a look at the attached photos which are self explanatory and note the packing which was necessary on one of the stops. Of three undercarriage frames I have checked, all have had this problem. I therefore suspect that YOURS might be like it too. IOW, one stop is shorter than the other and when the LG08's are pinned to the shaft, although they both touch their respective stops at the same time, they (the LG08's) are not in the same plane. One is more over-centre than the other. I'll leave it as an exercise to work out what this could cause! Cheers Kingsley in Oz ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:56 AM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Europa-List: ACF 50 Anyone suggest where to get hold of ACF 50 REgards Paul G-GIDY ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:55 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: ACF 50 From: "Jos Okhuijsen" Call Roger at the factory, worked for me, Kind Regards, Jos Okhuijsen -- workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane http://www.europaowners.org/kit600 mono xs, blue stuff filled, sanded and primed, fuel system in, doors done, windows in, filled and sanded, waiting for the painter, engine installation, panel. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:20:17 AM PST US From: "Paul Wilson" Subject: Re: Europa-List: ACF 50 Paul, Martin Jones at Egginton airfield (Airspeed Aviation) is near to you ? 01283 733803 He is an agent for it, and sells it by the tin, bottle, gallon etc, also various applicators , more economical than aerosols. Paul. > Anyone suggest where to get hold of ACF 50 > > REgards > > Paul > G-GIDY ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:35:01 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: ACF 50 From: "Flying Farmer" Hi, Just did a search on e-bay, and its full of the stuff Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:46:04 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: Europa-List: landing gear build order Which do you put in first in a tri gear? The legs or the compression strut between the rear of the wings (W36 tie bar assembly)? ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:55:42 PM PST US From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: landing gear build order Hi William. You will want to complete all of the bracing and lay-ups in the baggage bays per chapter twenty-nine first. Those lay-up are a lot of work and you want the area clear of that bar. ( It's about a 40 hour job to complete that section) In addition the lay-up will come up to the attachment area for the bar. One more point. Those lay-up are much easier to do if the top is not bonded on. However you will need a cradle with good support in order to do the job without the top. Brian Skelly Europa XS TriGear #A276 North Texas USA You can see my build photos at: http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:48 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: landing gear build order William imho its the legs, and its a tension strut btw. At very high angles of attack the load pulls the wings forward. I found that hard to believe too but it's true. It was first realized when an early glass glider clapped its wings in a high G pullup and they clapped in front of the pilots eyes. He survived to tell the tail. Graham William Daniell wrote: > > > Which do you put in first in a tri gear? The legs or the compression strut > between the rear of the wings (W36 tie bar assembly)? > > > > > > -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: +447739582005 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:46 PM PST US From: NevEyre@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: landing gear build order In a message dated 05/03/2007 19:49:04 GMT Standard Time, wdaniell@etb.net.co writes: Which do you put in first in a tri gear? The legs or the compression strut between the rear of the wings (W36 tie bar assembly)? Hi Will, Get the leg socket in, with rib 1 bonded in, then ''dry fit'' the tie bar, and trim rib 2 to clear the tie bar.Rather than sculpt away a hollow in rib 2 to clear the tie bar, go for a straight line from top of the socket, down under the bar. Remove the bar, glass in rib 2. Do the same ''dry fit'' for the forward inboard ribs. Do the lay up's onto the tank bulkhead for the tie bar re-enforcement at the same time. Real bugger to do with the top on, you will need to support the fuselage well if you have the top off. Have the top on for the lift / drag socket / tie bar installation. If you have the top on already, get a left [ kack] handed helper to do the Port side ! Have fun! Cheers, Nev. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:28 PM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: landing gear build order Well bugger me - I would never have guessed. Can someone explain? -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Singleton Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 16:19 Subject: Re: Europa-List: landing gear build order William imho its the legs, and its a tension strut btw. At very high angles of attack the load pulls the wings forward. I found that hard to believe too but it's true. It was first realized when an early glass glider clapped its wings in a high G pullup and they clapped in front of the pilots eyes. He survived to tell the tail. Graham William Daniell wrote: > > > Which do you put in first in a tri gear? The legs or the compression strut > between the rear of the wings (W36 tie bar assembly)? > > > > > > -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: +447739582005 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:58 PM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re. mono gear collapse Simon, You must compare BOTH photos. The frame was in the same position on the bench when both were taken. The frame was resting on the engine mounts but the purpose of photos was to show the relationship between the stops and the housing for the shaft that ties the LG08 's. A line drawn between the two stops was not parallel to the axis of the shaft. Believe me, the stops were NOT correct. Anyway, my frame is a Classic one and as such does not have offset engine mounts AFAIK. Regards Kingsley -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Simon Smith Sent: Tuesday, 6 March 2007 3:30 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re. mono gear collapse Kingsley, In those photos the mount is resting on the engine mounting points. These are offset toward the starboard side of the aircraft. I suspect that the "error" that you found is supposed to be there. Simon G-BZTN ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:45:44 PM PST US From: NevEyre@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: landing gear build order In a message dated 05/03/2007 21:21:34 GMT Standard Time, grahamsingleton@btinternet.com writes: William imho its the legs, and its a tension strut btw. At very high angles of attack the load pulls the wings forward. I found that hard to believe too but it's true. It was first realized when an early glass glider clapped its wings in a high G pullup and they clapped in front of the pilots eyes. He survived to tell the tail. Graham Hi Graham, after he survived to tell the tale, what was it he told the tail ? Cheers, Nev. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.