---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/27/07: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:26 AM - Re: fiberglass cloth (William Daniell) 2. 01:04 PM - Re: ceramic coated exhaust (karelvranken) 3. 02:36 PM - AW: ceramic coated exhaust (Ing. Gottfried Komaier) 4. 03:39 PM - Re: ceramic coated exhaust (Jerry Rehn) 5. 04:06 PM - AW: ceramic coated exhaust (Ing. Gottfried Komaier) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:37 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: fiberglass cloth Yes - I came out here for a year in 1993...and well one thing lead to another and here I am, 14 years later with a half built kit in the garage. I regularly travel with my purchases from ACS. There is a thriving aviation community here and the flying is interesting - in a two hour flight you go from 8500 agl to less than 1000 and back to over 14000 and then back to msl. - as a result it gets bumpy after about 0900 as the winds get up. Come and visit. We already had one club member visit last year. Also I met a French guy in the local field with a 172 which he bought in Montreal. He was on his way BACK from Patagonia (where he said the wind is routinely over 50kmh) ... Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Singleton Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 18:55 Subject: Re: Europa-List: fiberglass cloth William I never realized you were in Colombia, I remember being at SnF the day Ivan sold three kits to a Comobian family, farmers I think. Interglas are in Ulm, Germany. www.pd-interglas-technologies-ag.de/ You might be able to buy from these people,Streifly, suppliers to the glider industry. Interglas are probably too big for us. http://streifly.de/Preise4-00.htm, I found them most helpful and good price too. I would be reluctant to use any old cloth, try and get one aproved by either Rutan, (the Messiah {;-) or Europa. THe critical thing is the chemiocal sizing of the yarn to enhance the wetting by the resin. My favourite Guru is Gary Hunter, he was Bruce Bohannon's crew chief on Pushy Galor and still is AFAIK. Very generous with his experience, he worked for Shell Resins a while ago. Graham I've copied one of Gary's emails for you, I don't think he'll mind. As I said, a generous man. Technically, in the context of our canard aviation community, there is absolutely no difference between what has been referred to as a non-structural epoxy and a structural one. They are all from the same molecules. Numerous people had asked Rutan Aircraft Factory about using West Systems Epoxy. After all, it was readily available in most parts of country - and the world for that matter. Well, we all know that Burt Rutan is rather liability conscious, and if a resin system had not been tested and flown in an actual prototype or part of some sort, it was not approved for his aircraft designs - PERIOD. So, if I recall correctly, one of Rutan's Canard Pusher newsletters, responded to the builder inquiries and West Systems was dubbed a "non-structural" epoxy. It was OK for making micro fill and wheel pants and such. But, no major structural components. Furthermore, the makers of West System (Gougeon Brothers - pronounce goo-zhan)did not seem to promote the use of the West Systems product line for aircraft construction. Gougeon Brothers is a customer of mine. So, about 3-5 years ago, I quizzed them on why this was so. They said that in years past their insurance underwriter did not want the liability associated with homebuilt aircraft. The product was intended for the boat building, repair and restoration market. However, they had recently secured another insurance underwriter that did not have such reservations about homebuilt aircraft. In fact, their website had a photo gallery of the many different projects their customers had completed using the West Systems epoxy, and many aircraft were included - mostly wood / fiberglass aircraft, like the KR2s, and Ospreys and such. I don't recall seeing any Vari-Eze's or Long-EZ's. Today, if you visit the Gougeon's West Systems home page http://www.westsystems.com , there are numerous examples of all composite structural articles being made from the West Systems product line. At about the time I was quizzing Gougeon about the West Systems epoxy, they were introducing their new Pro-Set epoxy product line. Apparently, they had recognized a new market was emerging and decided to put their best foot forward. This product line was developed for more demanding end-uses including all composite aircraft. Rutan did approve one of their early formulations for the construction of his plans designs - the Pros-Set 125 / 229. The website for Pro-Set shows a photo of the Proteus that was made from Pro-Set resins formulations. http://www.prosetepoxy.com Note the statements about post cures in their literature. Frankly, I cannot understand why anyone would pay so much for the convenience of being able to buy an epoxy at the local marine or auto supply. West Systems is at least $3.00 / lb. more expensive than the most costly alternative "structural epoxy". But, some people drive Fords, and some people drive Mercurys. One thing is for certain. Gougeon Brothers is perhaps the industry benchmark for technical support. Their on-line literature, books, manuals, and newsletters are top notch - excellent reading. They even sell ratio pumps for their Pro-Set resin systems. Gary Hunter Technical Service Representative EPOXY RESINS TECHNICAL INQUIRY RESOLUTION PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS Toll Free in North America - 800-832-3766 International - 281-544-6010 Facsimile - 817-421-7515 Email - tec.epon@resins.com William Daniell wrote: > > Interglass is based where? > > Is there any "standard" means of describing cloth? > > Does 92125 mean anything or is it a part number? > > As usual my eternal problem is getting stuff in sunny Bogota!! > > For example the cloth that Andy suggested is ACS part number 7781 described > as "8.92 oz per sq yard medium weight standard industrial cloth thread count > 60x54 strength 350x330 lb/in" is this a standard way of describing cloth? > > Would any cloth fulfilling these characteristics do? > > Will > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham > Singleton > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 13:45 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: fiberglass cloth > > > > > Rutan chose it because it was used for gliders in Germany. Probably > still is, 92125, it's made by Interglas and it's a 2 by 2 twill (for > drape). The UNI we use is 92145. > I recently ( 4 years ago!) bought half a roll of BID from a supplier in > Germany but haven't yet re found the details. Price was very good > compared to UK prices. > Graham > > EuropaXSA276@aol.com wrote: > >>I was told by Europa some time ago that the closest thing for the >>factory BID was the Rutan cloth RA7725 >> >>Brian Skelly >>Europa XS TriGear #A276 >>North Texas USA >>You can see my build photos at: >>http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS >> >> > > > > > > > > > > -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: +447739582005 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:37 PM PST US From: "karelvranken" Subject: Re: Europa-List: ceramic coated exhaust Peter, You are talking about the pipes that are coated. And the muffler? Can it be done as well? Regards, Karel Vranken # 447 F-PKRL > I had my exhaust pipes ceramic coated before taking the aircraft into > service, since I had bought the 912S for my classic mono, and knowing, > that > the 912S runs much hotter than the 912. I don't know what the difference > would have been , but have had no problems in 350 hrs , some of the flying > in very hot conditions in Arizona. I would recommend it. > > Peter Timm > # 110, C-GIET > > > on 07/3/25 8:40 AM, Jerry Rehn at rehn@rockisland.com wrote: > >> >> Has anyone ceramic coated their exhaust system? Jet Hot www.jet-hot.com >> is >> suppose to reduce temperatures about 200 F. Apparently is widely used >> among >> high performance racing. Could this help reduce cowl temps without >> causing >> other isues? >> >> Jerry >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hi Jerry, > I've had my exhaust pipes ceramic coated before taking the aircraft into > service. My Europa is a Classic with a 912S and has 350 hrs on it . I > could > not tell if it made a difference, but things get pretty hot under my > cowl, > with everything being so tight. It was not very expensive, as I recall > I would recommend it. > Peter Timm > # ll0 , C-GIET > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mijn Postvak In wordt beschermd door SPAMfighter 0 spam-mails zijn er tot op heden geblokkeerd. Download de gratis SPAMfighter vandaag nog! ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:36:42 PM PST US From: "Ing. Gottfried Komaier" Subject: AW: Europa-List: ceramic coated exhaust Karel, Yes you can do. The coating on my Rotax 914 exhaust system was done here in Europe. All the pipes, the muffler and the hot side of the turbocharger for ~ 400.- Have a look at: http://www.zircotec.com/exhaust.html I hope this helps, Gottfried Komaier Vienna, Austria -----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von karelvranken Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. Mrz 2007 22:11 An: europa-list@matronics.com Betreff: Re: Europa-List: ceramic coated exhaust --> Peter, You are talking about the pipes that are coated. And the muffler? Can it be done as well? Regards, Karel Vranken # 447 F-PKRL > I had my exhaust pipes ceramic coated before taking the aircraft into > service, since I had bought the 912S for my classic mono, and knowing, > that the 912S runs much hotter than the 912. I don't know what the > difference would have been , but have had no problems in 350 hrs , > some of the flying in very hot conditions in Arizona. I would > recommend it. > > Peter Timm > # 110, C-GIET > > > on 07/3/25 8:40 AM, Jerry Rehn at rehn@rockisland.com wrote: > >> >> Has anyone ceramic coated their exhaust system? Jet Hot >> www.jet-hot.com is suppose to reduce temperatures about 200 F. >> Apparently is widely used among high performance racing. Could this >> help reduce cowl temps without causing other isues? >> >> Jerry >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hi Jerry, > I've had my exhaust pipes ceramic coated before taking the aircraft into > service. My Europa is a Classic with a 912S and has 350 hrs on it . I > could > not tell if it made a difference, but things get pretty hot under my > cowl, > with everything being so tight. It was not very expensive, as I recall > I would recommend it. > Peter Timm > # ll0 , C-GIET > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mijn Postvak In wordt beschermd door SPAMfighter 0 spam-mails zijn er tot op heden geblokkeerd. Download de gratis SPAMfighter vandaag nog! ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:29 PM PST US From: "Jerry Rehn" Subject: Re: Europa-List: ceramic coated exhaust Did they coat the inside of pipes as well? If so is there any possibility of coating coming off on inside and causing issue with turbo? Thanks Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ing. Gottfried Komaier" > -----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- > Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von > karelvranken > Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. Mrz 2007 22:11 > An: europa-list@matronics.com > Betreff: Re: Europa-List: ceramic coated exhaust > > --> > >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> Hi Jerry, >> I've had my exhaust pipes ceramic coated before taking the aircraft into >> service. My Europa is a Classic with a 912S and has 350 hrs on it . I >> could >> not tell if it made a difference, but things get pretty hot under my >> cowl, >> with everything being so tight. It was not very expensive, as I recall >> I would recommend it. >> Peter Timm >> # ll0 , C-GIET >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Mijn Postvak In wordt beschermd door SPAMfighter > 0 spam-mails zijn er tot op heden geblokkeerd. > Download de gratis SPAMfighter vandaag nog! > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:17 PM PST US From: "Ing. Gottfried Komaier" Subject: AW: Europa-List: ceramic coated exhaust Jerry, only the outside of the exhaust system and the turbo is coated. So you have not the problem that coating coming off. Gottfried -----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Jerry Rehn Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Mrz 2007 00:38 An: europa-list@matronics.com Betreff: Re: Europa-List: ceramic coated exhaust Did they coat the inside of pipes as well? If so is there any possibility of coating coming off on inside and causing issue with turbo? Thanks Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ing. Gottfried Komaier" > -----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- > Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von > karelvranken > Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. Mrz 2007 22:11 > An: europa-list@matronics.com > Betreff: Re: Europa-List: ceramic coated exhaust > > --> > >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> Hi Jerry, >> I've had my exhaust pipes ceramic coated before taking the aircraft >> into service. My Europa is a Classic with a 912S and has 350 hrs on >> it . I could not tell if it made a difference, but things get pretty >> hot under my cowl, with everything being so tight. It was not very >> expensive, as I recall I would recommend it. >> Peter Timm >> # ll0 , C-GIET >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- Mijn Postvak In wordt beschermd door SPAMfighter 0 > spam-mails zijn er tot op heden geblokkeerd. > Download de gratis SPAMfighter vandaag nog! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.