Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:08 AM - Interesting builder's website (Brian Hutchinson)
2. 04:13 AM - Re: Interesting builder's website (Alan)
3. 06:23 AM - Re: Flap attachment procedure (Paul Stewart)
4. 07:10 AM - Re: Interesting builder's website (danbish)
5. 07:36 AM - Re: Interesting builder's website (Brian Hutchinson)
6. 08:14 AM - Re: Flap attachment procedure (John & Paddy Wigney)
7. 09:15 AM - CNC foam cutter (Andrew Sarangan)
8. 01:44 PM - Re: CNC foam cutter (Jos Okhuijsen)
9. 03:20 PM - Re: Re: Flap attachment procedure (Graham Singleton)
10. 04:27 PM - Re: Glue (SteveD)
11. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: Glue (Tom Friedland)
12. 05:51 PM - Re: Re: Glue (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
13. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: Glue (Steve Hagar)
14. 08:14 PM - Flap attachment procedure (Erich Trombley)
15. 11:34 PM - Re: Fw: Rotax 912s Benchmark Performance (nigel charles)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Interesting builder's website |
This builder's website rarely gets a mention, but I find it's full of
interesting stuff, and it is now up to date. I can't find any mention of
its owner on the site itself, but I'm sure someone can put a name to it...
http://www.antsol.com/europaphotos.nsf/plinks/AMIR-6ZXUJW
Brian Hutchinson
Inspired by this site!!
Mono 357...Struggling with the last 10%!!
Message 2
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| Subject: | Interesting builder's website |
Hi Brian
This site is actually my personal collection of photos - quite useful when
I've broken something and am seeking advice. Once I've finished building
I'll trim them down and add some comments.
I'm based Cambridge, UK. Possibly run the engine for the first time
tomorrow, depending how long it takes to do mod72 first :-)
Alan
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Hutchinson
Sent: 05 April 2007 10:08
Subject: Europa-List: Interesting builder's website
This builder's website rarely gets a mention, but I find it's full of
interesting stuff, and it is now up to date. I can't find any mention of
its owner on the site itself, but I'm sure someone can put a name to it...
http://www.antsol.com/europaphotos.nsf/plinks/AMIR-6ZXUJW
Brian Hutchinson
Inspired by this site!!
Mono 357...Struggling with the last 10%!!
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Flap attachment procedure |
Mike
The job I forgot before closing out the wings was to take the stanley
knife out!
REgards
Paul
G-GIDY
On 4 Apr 2007, at 19:49, DuaneFamly@aol.com wrote:
> Andrew,
>
> One other method of creating a clean constant even edge between the
> wing and the flap would be done at the time of closing out the
> wings, is to place some inexpensive floor tile that has been warmed
> up and pliable along the length of the flap, allow it to cool so it
> takes the shape of the flaps leading edge, and then epoxy the top
> of the wing on.
> While I have not reached that point yet (wings are done but I have
> this nagging feeling that as soon as I close the wings up,
> something will come along and have to be done inside them), I am
> ready with the floor tile.
>
> Mike Duane A207A
> Redding, California
> XS Conventional Gear
> Jabiru 3300
> Sensenich R64Z N
> Ground Adjustable Prop
>
>
> See what's free at AOL.com.
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting builder's website |
Having trouble getting the link to work. Is it correct?
Thanks,
Dan
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 5
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| Subject: | Interesting builder's website |
Well it did work this morning, now I can't get it to work either!
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of danbish
Sent: 05 April 2007 15:01
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Interesting builder's website
Having trouble getting the link to work. Is it correct?
Thanks,
Dan
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Flap attachment procedure |
Hi Andrew,
The wing/flap template procedure is a little strange. I assume that Europa was
trying to protect intellectual property when they only listed a discontinuous
set of wing top profile data points for the template. Anyway, you may be aware
that the Europa wing is a laminar flow section. Laminar flow wings generally
have profiles which look a lot different to a regular Clark Y aerofoil say. I
think I am correct that the wing is very slightly hollow on the upper rear section
so that is why it is important to use the template. If you use the bottom
surface of the flap aligned with the wing's bottom surface, you may not get
the desired result. Very small profile changes can have big impact on wing performance.
Perhaps others on the list can confirm my ideas.
Re your particle board template problem, perhaps you could fit some extra side
brackets to steady it.
Regarding the gap between the flap and the closeout, I think it is wise to insert
some small fixed spacers to maintain the gap. However, these should only be
positioned at two or three places since smooth airflow through the slot is an
important part of the wing lift when the flaps are down.
Just my independent ideas. Hope they help.
Cheers, John
******************
From: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Europa-List: Flap attachment procedure
Folks
I am a bit confused about the procedure for attaching the flaps to the wings. I
hope someone can clarify it for me.
First, I am not clear on what exact purpose is served by the flap setting template,
and which surfaces or points are considered critical. The manual says to
make a template and glue it to the wing with bondo. I made such a template from
particle board, but I was unsuccessful in bonding it with bondo. The board is
heavy enough and the contact area small enough that I can't think how some blobs
of bondo is going to keep it in place while I flip the wing over.
Regarding the alignment, it would seem to me the hinge pivot point should be positioned
such that it is at the center of the flap's leading edge arc (and the
corresponding arc of the wing's closeout) to ensure smooth flap motion without
rubbing the wing's closeout area. If I am thinking this through correctly, this
step could be accomplished without the use of a template by positioning the
flap such that its bottom surface is aligned to the wing's bottom surface, and
then ensuring a constant gap between the wing and flap from root to tip. I
was thinking of inserting some wooden blocks in the closeout area to accurately
set this gap between the flap and the closeout. Am I missing something?
******************************
Message 7
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I built a CNC foam cutting machine some time back, so I was able to hot
wire nicely shaped aileron mass balance horns. I know it is just as
easy to make them with a sanding block, but I thought I would put the
word out in case anyone wants these horns. I already have the design
file, so it would take just two minutes to make additional parts. I
will send them to you for free. In fact, I am willing to offer my CNC
cutter for any other Europa foam cutting applications you may want to
try out.
Andrew Sarangan
http://www.sarangan.org
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: CNC foam cutter |
Sure Andrew,
What about the base for a battery tray for the bagage bay(to cover with
glass & epoxy) and seat- bottoms and backs?
If you cut the foam, i am willing to make mouldings to make the actual
things, to put on loan for everybody.
Kind Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
--
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http://www.europaowners.org/kit600
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Flap attachment procedure |
John
you are absolutely right. The trailing edge as designed by Don Dykins
has a slight reflex to reduce drag in the cruise. I did some arm
twisting and got hold of the coordinates of the section.
I like to see the TE about half an inch up from straight.
Graham
John & Paddy Wigney wrote:
> Hi Andrew,
>
> The wing/flap template procedure is a little strange. I assume that
> Europa was trying to protect intellectual property when they only listed
> a discontinuous set of wing top profile data points for the template.
> Anyway, you may be aware that the Europa wing is a laminar flow section.
> Laminar flow wings generally have profiles which look a lot different to
> a regular Clark Y aerofoil say. I think I am correct that the wing is
> very slightly hollow on the upper rear section so that is why it is
> important to use the template. If you use the bottom surface of the flap
> aligned with the wing's bottom surface, you may not get the desired
> result. Very small profile changes can have big impact on wing
> performance. Perhaps others on the list can confirm my ideas.
>
> Cheers, John
Message 10
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I am about ready to put in the cockpit module and my glue is way out of date -
how much will I need to buy to do the cockpit module and finish up the plane?
(I have both sets of wings.) Any guesses?
Thanks
Gary Leinberger
A237
Lancaster, Pa.
Hi Larry,
Where to buy was just covered on the list look here:
http://www.europaowners.org/viewtopic.php?p=14490#14490
I used just under two kits of the stuff total, Cockpit module was the single largest
user.
Andrew has the best archive search engine:
http://www.sarangan.org/~sarangan/mharc/html//europa-list/2007-04/index.html
Chat Later,
Steved
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 11
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Hi Gary
Don't throw your old stuff out. It works years later if it doesn't harden
and is useful for lots of non structural uses.
Tom
On 4/5/07, SteveD <Post2Forum@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> I am about ready to put in the cockpit module and my glue is way out of
> date - how much will I need to buy to do the cockpit module and finish up
> the plane? (I have both sets of wings.) Any guesses?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Gary Leinberger
> A237
> Lancaster, Pa.
>
>
> Hi Larry,
> Where to buy was just covered on the list look here:
> http://www.europaowners.org/viewtopic.php?p=14490#14490
>
> I used just under two kits of the stuff total, Cockpit module was the
> single largest user.
>
> Andrew has the best archive search engine:
>
> http://www.sarangan.org/~sarangan/mharc/html//europa-list/2007-04/index.html
>
> Chat Later,
> Steved
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
Message 12
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Gary,
And if the yellow portion starts to crystallize....simply place it in a pan
of water (WARNING! Don't use one of your wife's good pots!) and heat it up to
just below a boil and the crystals will be reabsorbed.
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 13
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Make a lap shear test coupon of fiberglass bid the same number of layers or
strength of what you want to bond together. If the fiberglass breaks
before your lap joint debonds or pulls apart you can be confident that you
goo is still good.
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa AZ
> [Original Message]
> From: SteveD <Post2Forum@COMCAST.NET>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 4/5/2007 4:31:11 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Glue
>
>
> I am about ready to put in the cockpit module and my glue is way out of
date - how much will I need to buy to do the cockpit module and finish up
the plane? (I have both sets of wings.) Any guesses?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Gary Leinberger
> A237
> Lancaster, Pa.
>
>
> Hi Larry,
> Where to buy was just covered on the list look here:
> http://www.europaowners.org/viewtopic.php?p=14490#14490
>
> I used just under two kits of the stuff total, Cockpit module was the
single largest user.
>
> Andrew has the best archive search engine:
>
http://www.sarangan.org/~sarangan/mharc/html//europa-list/2007-04/index.html
>
> Chat Later,
> Steved
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Flap attachment procedure |
Andrew,
I think you will find the following method of attaching the flap to wing
to be much much easier than that described in the good book. Fabricate
the template as outlined in the book. Using your previously made wing
cradles, position the wind in the vertical plane. Now bond the template
to the wing. Per the book fabricate three spacers 3-5mm each. Next si
mply place them in the flap closeout and then insert the flap. Using a
small "C" clamp, temporarily clamp the center flap bracket FL2 to its re
spective W18. I found that I did not need to place blobs of bondo betwe
en the close-out flanges and flap skin. Now proceed with the remainder
of the procedure as outlined in the manual, however, you will want to ke
ep the wing in the vertical plane all the way through the remainder of t
he chapter, including setting the outriggers. One advantage of keeping
the wing vertical is that it is very easy to sight down the wings to ver
ify the gap between the top skin of the wing and the top skin of the fla
p is uniform. Hope the above helps you out.
Regards,
Erich Trombley
N28ET Classic Mono 914
________________________________________________________________________
Interested in getting caught up on today's news?
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ront.htm?csp=24
<html><P>Andrew,</P>
<P>I think you will find the following method of attaching the flap to w
ing to be much much easier than that described in the good book. F
abricate the template as outlined in the book. Using your previous
ly made wing cradles, position the wind in the vertical plane. Now
bond the template to the wing. Per the book fabricate three space
rs 3-5mm each. Next simply place them in the flap closeo
ut and then insert the flap. Using a small "C" clamp, temporarily
clamp the center flap bracket FL2 to its respective W18. I found t
hat I did <U>not</U> need to place blobs of bondo between the close
-out flanges and flap skin. Now proceed with the remainder of the
procedure as outlined in the manual, however, you will want to keep the
wing in the vertical plane all the way through the remainder of the chap
ter, including setting the outriggers. One advantage of keeping th
e wing vertical is that it is very easy to sight down the wings to verif
y the gap between the top skin of the wing and the top skin of the flap
is uniform. Hope the above helps you out.</P>
<P>Regards,<BR><BR>Erich Trombley<BR>N28ET Classic Mono 914</P>
<font face="Times-New-Roman" size="2"><br><br>______________________
__________________________________________________<br>
<a href="http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday
.com/news/front.htm?csp=24">Interested in getting caught up on today's
news?<br>
Click here to checkout <B>USA TODAY Headlines</B>.</a><br></font>
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</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Fw: Rotax 912s Benchmark Performance |
The figures you supply are interesting in that they show relative fuel
consumption with different power settings. The absolute figures will
obviously change a bit for an aircraft in the air with the change on
prop loads for the aircraft flying at speed. For what it is worth in
practical terms I found the following relevant.
Using a variety of throttle and prop settings I came to the following
conclusions:
1. Despite the fact that the minimum drag speed is given as 75kts
the aircraft seems to be a lot happier in terms of angle of attack once
it is above 100kts. I doubt that there is much to be gained flying
slower than this.
2. With that in mind I used two speeds to compare fuel flows:
105kts and 120kts IAS
3. At 120kts the difference between 4500rpm and 5000rpm gave
negligible differences in fuel flow as greater throttle settings were
needed at 4500rpm.
4. At 105kts there was a 1.5litres/hr benefit from using 4500rpm
over 5000rpm.
5. Although the fuel flow is significantly lower at 105kts the
better overall economy is not much better because you fly 15nm less in
any given hour.
The engine gives better fuel flows with lower OAT so I generally found
it worthwhile climbing to 7000-8000ft in hot weather to get cooler air
into the engine. Some day I must do some comparison figures up there as
well.
Hope this is of interest.
Regards
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
Sent: 04 April 2007 14:19
Subject: Europa-List: Fw: Rotax 912s Benchmark Performance
Greetings All,
I have been interested for some time in developing a set of performance
data for the Rotax 912s
as installed in my Europa Trigear. This information, provided in the
POH of all certificated
constant speed propellor aircraft is sadly lacking from Europa or Rotax
manuals.
I am enclosing the static performance data at sea level on a standard
pressure day for my engine.
The aircraft is chocked and not moving. At some point soon I hope to add
the data including TAS
airspeed at 3000, 6000, 9000 feet density altitude. NM means not
measured because I thought
higher power would jump my chocks!
Hopefully this data will allow us to make informed choices for MP and
RPM settings for speed or
economy, etc.
At this point I would appreciate comments on the data and methods, etc.
Cheers,
Ira N224XS
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