---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/05/07: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:08 AM - Interesting builder's website (Brian Hutchinson) 2. 04:13 AM - Re: Interesting builder's website (Alan) 3. 06:23 AM - Re: Flap attachment procedure (Paul Stewart) 4. 07:10 AM - Re: Interesting builder's website (danbish) 5. 07:36 AM - Re: Interesting builder's website (Brian Hutchinson) 6. 08:14 AM - Re: Flap attachment procedure (John & Paddy Wigney) 7. 09:15 AM - CNC foam cutter (Andrew Sarangan) 8. 01:44 PM - Re: CNC foam cutter (Jos Okhuijsen) 9. 03:20 PM - Re: Re: Flap attachment procedure (Graham Singleton) 10. 04:27 PM - Re: Glue (SteveD) 11. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: Glue (Tom Friedland) 12. 05:51 PM - Re: Re: Glue (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 13. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: Glue (Steve Hagar) 14. 08:14 PM - Flap attachment procedure (Erich Trombley) 15. 11:34 PM - Re: Fw: Rotax 912s Benchmark Performance (nigel charles) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:32 AM PST US From: "Brian Hutchinson" Subject: Europa-List: Interesting builder's website This builder's website rarely gets a mention, but I find it's full of interesting stuff, and it is now up to date. I can't find any mention of its owner on the site itself, but I'm sure someone can put a name to it... http://www.antsol.com/europaphotos.nsf/plinks/AMIR-6ZXUJW Brian Hutchinson Inspired by this site!! Mono 357...Struggling with the last 10%!! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:27 AM PST US From: "Alan" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Interesting builder's website Hi Brian This site is actually my personal collection of photos - quite useful when I've broken something and am seeking advice. Once I've finished building I'll trim them down and add some comments. I'm based Cambridge, UK. Possibly run the engine for the first time tomorrow, depending how long it takes to do mod72 first :-) Alan _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Hutchinson Sent: 05 April 2007 10:08 Subject: Europa-List: Interesting builder's website This builder's website rarely gets a mention, but I find it's full of interesting stuff, and it is now up to date. I can't find any mention of its owner on the site itself, but I'm sure someone can put a name to it... http://www.antsol.com/europaphotos.nsf/plinks/AMIR-6ZXUJW Brian Hutchinson Inspired by this site!! Mono 357...Struggling with the last 10%!! ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:37 AM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flap attachment procedure Mike The job I forgot before closing out the wings was to take the stanley knife out! REgards Paul G-GIDY On 4 Apr 2007, at 19:49, DuaneFamly@aol.com wrote: > Andrew, > > One other method of creating a clean constant even edge between the > wing and the flap would be done at the time of closing out the > wings, is to place some inexpensive floor tile that has been warmed > up and pliable along the length of the flap, allow it to cool so it > takes the shape of the flaps leading edge, and then epoxy the top > of the wing on. > While I have not reached that point yet (wings are done but I have > this nagging feeling that as soon as I close the wings up, > something will come along and have to be done inside them), I am > ready with the floor tile. > > Mike Duane A207A > Redding, California > XS Conventional Gear > Jabiru 3300 > Sensenich R64Z N > Ground Adjustable Prop > > > See what's free at AOL.com. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:04 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Interesting builder's website From: "danbish" Having trouble getting the link to work. Is it correct? Thanks, Dan Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:04 AM PST US From: "Brian Hutchinson" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Interesting builder's website Well it did work this morning, now I can't get it to work either! Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of danbish Sent: 05 April 2007 15:01 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Interesting builder's website Having trouble getting the link to work. Is it correct? Thanks, Dan Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:21 AM PST US From: John & Paddy Wigney Subject: Europa-List: Re: Flap attachment procedure Hi Andrew, The wing/flap template procedure is a little strange. I assume that Europa was trying to protect intellectual property when they only listed a discontinuous set of wing top profile data points for the template. Anyway, you may be aware that the Europa wing is a laminar flow section. Laminar flow wings generally have profiles which look a lot different to a regular Clark Y aerofoil say. I think I am correct that the wing is very slightly hollow on the upper rear section so that is why it is important to use the template. If you use the bottom surface of the flap aligned with the wing's bottom surface, you may not get the desired result. Very small profile changes can have big impact on wing performance. Perhaps others on the list can confirm my ideas. Re your particle board template problem, perhaps you could fit some extra side brackets to steady it. Regarding the gap between the flap and the closeout, I think it is wise to insert some small fixed spacers to maintain the gap. However, these should only be positioned at two or three places since smooth airflow through the slot is an important part of the wing lift when the flaps are down. Just my independent ideas. Hope they help. Cheers, John ****************** From: Andrew Sarangan Subject: Europa-List: Flap attachment procedure Folks I am a bit confused about the procedure for attaching the flaps to the wings. I hope someone can clarify it for me. First, I am not clear on what exact purpose is served by the flap setting template, and which surfaces or points are considered critical. The manual says to make a template and glue it to the wing with bondo. I made such a template from particle board, but I was unsuccessful in bonding it with bondo. The board is heavy enough and the contact area small enough that I can't think how some blobs of bondo is going to keep it in place while I flip the wing over. Regarding the alignment, it would seem to me the hinge pivot point should be positioned such that it is at the center of the flap's leading edge arc (and the corresponding arc of the wing's closeout) to ensure smooth flap motion without rubbing the wing's closeout area. If I am thinking this through correctly, this step could be accomplished without the use of a template by positioning the flap such that its bottom surface is aligned to the wing's bottom surface, and then ensuring a constant gap between the wing and flap from root to tip. I was thinking of inserting some wooden blocks in the closeout area to accurately set this gap between the flap and the closeout. Am I missing something? ****************************** ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:15:26 AM PST US From: Andrew Sarangan Subject: Europa-List: CNC foam cutter I built a CNC foam cutting machine some time back, so I was able to hot wire nicely shaped aileron mass balance horns. I know it is just as easy to make them with a sanding block, but I thought I would put the word out in case anyone wants these horns. I already have the design file, so it would take just two minutes to make additional parts. I will send them to you for free. In fact, I am willing to offer my CNC cutter for any other Europa foam cutting applications you may want to try out. Andrew Sarangan http://www.sarangan.org ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: CNC foam cutter From: "Jos Okhuijsen" Sure Andrew, What about the base for a battery tray for the bagage bay(to cover with glass & epoxy) and seat- bottoms and backs? If you cut the foam, i am willing to make mouldings to make the actual things, to put on loan for everybody. Kind Regards, Jos Okhuijsen -- workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane http://www.europaowners.org/kit600 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:20:13 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Flap attachment procedure John you are absolutely right. The trailing edge as designed by Don Dykins has a slight reflex to reduce drag in the cruise. I did some arm twisting and got hold of the coordinates of the section. I like to see the TE about half an inch up from straight. Graham John & Paddy Wigney wrote: > Hi Andrew, > > The wing/flap template procedure is a little strange. I assume that > Europa was trying to protect intellectual property when they only listed > a discontinuous set of wing top profile data points for the template. > Anyway, you may be aware that the Europa wing is a laminar flow section. > Laminar flow wings generally have profiles which look a lot different to > a regular Clark Y aerofoil say. I think I am correct that the wing is > very slightly hollow on the upper rear section so that is why it is > important to use the template. If you use the bottom surface of the flap > aligned with the wing's bottom surface, you may not get the desired > result. Very small profile changes can have big impact on wing > performance. Perhaps others on the list can confirm my ideas. > > Cheers, John ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:51 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Glue From: "SteveD" I am about ready to put in the cockpit module and my glue is way out of date - how much will I need to buy to do the cockpit module and finish up the plane? (I have both sets of wings.) Any guesses? Thanks Gary Leinberger A237 Lancaster, Pa. Hi Larry, Where to buy was just covered on the list look here: http://www.europaowners.org/viewtopic.php?p=14490#14490 I used just under two kits of the stuff total, Cockpit module was the single largest user. Andrew has the best archive search engine: http://www.sarangan.org/~sarangan/mharc/html//europa-list/2007-04/index.html Chat Later, Steved Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:46 PM PST US From: "Tom Friedland" <96victor@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Glue Hi Gary Don't throw your old stuff out. It works years later if it doesn't harden and is useful for lots of non structural uses. Tom On 4/5/07, SteveD wrote: > > > I am about ready to put in the cockpit module and my glue is way out of > date - how much will I need to buy to do the cockpit module and finish up > the plane? (I have both sets of wings.) Any guesses? > > > Thanks > > Gary Leinberger > A237 > Lancaster, Pa. > > > Hi Larry, > Where to buy was just covered on the list look here: > http://www.europaowners.org/viewtopic.php?p=14490#14490 > > I used just under two kits of the stuff total, Cockpit module was the > single largest user. > > Andrew has the best archive search engine: > > http://www.sarangan.org/~sarangan/mharc/html//europa-list/2007-04/index.html > > Chat Later, > Steved > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:55 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Glue Gary, And if the yellow portion starts to crystallize....simply place it in a pan of water (WARNING! Don't use one of your wife's good pots!) and heat it up to just below a boil and the crystals will be reabsorbed. Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300 Sensenich R64Z N Ground Adjustable Prop ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:53 PM PST US From: "Steve Hagar" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Glue Make a lap shear test coupon of fiberglass bid the same number of layers or strength of what you want to bond together. If the fiberglass breaks before your lap joint debonds or pulls apart you can be confident that you goo is still good. Steve Hagar A143 Mesa AZ > [Original Message] > From: SteveD > To: > Date: 4/5/2007 4:31:11 PM > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Glue > > > I am about ready to put in the cockpit module and my glue is way out of date - how much will I need to buy to do the cockpit module and finish up the plane? (I have both sets of wings.) Any guesses? > > > Thanks > > Gary Leinberger > A237 > Lancaster, Pa. > > > Hi Larry, > Where to buy was just covered on the list look here: > http://www.europaowners.org/viewtopic.php?p=14490#14490 > > I used just under two kits of the stuff total, Cockpit module was the single largest user. > > Andrew has the best archive search engine: > http://www.sarangan.org/~sarangan/mharc/html//europa-list/2007-04/index.html > > Chat Later, > Steved > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:42 PM PST US From: "Erich Trombley" Subject: Europa-List: Flap attachment procedure Andrew, I think you will find the following method of attaching the flap to wing to be much much easier than that described in the good book. Fabricate the template as outlined in the book. Using your previously made wing cradles, position the wind in the vertical plane. Now bond the template to the wing. Per the book fabricate three spacers 3-5mm each. Next si mply place them in the flap closeout and then insert the flap. Using a small "C" clamp, temporarily clamp the center flap bracket FL2 to its re spective W18. I found that I did not need to place blobs of bondo betwe en the close-out flanges and flap skin. Now proceed with the remainder of the procedure as outlined in the manual, however, you will want to ke ep the wing in the vertical plane all the way through the remainder of t he chapter, including setting the outriggers. One advantage of keeping the wing vertical is that it is very easy to sight down the wings to ver ify the gap between the top skin of the wing and the top skin of the fla p is uniform. Hope the above helps you out. Regards, Erich Trombley N28ET Classic Mono 914 ________________________________________________________________________ Interested in getting caught up on today's news? 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Andrew,

I think you will find the following method of attaching the flap to w ing to be much much easier than that described in the good book.  F abricate the template as outlined in the book.  Using your previous ly made wing cradles, position the wind in the vertical plane.  Now bond the template to the wing.  Per the book fabricate three space rs 3-5mm each.  Next simply place them in the flap closeo ut and then insert the flap.  Using a small "C" clamp, temporarily clamp the center flap bracket FL2 to its respective W18.  I found t hat I did not need to place blobs of bondo between the close -out flanges and flap skin.  Now proceed with the remainder of the procedure as outlined in the manual, however, you will want to keep the wing in the vertical plane all the way through the remainder of the chap ter, including setting the outriggers.  One advantage of keeping th e wing vertical is that it is very easy to sight down the wings to verif y the gap between the top skin of the wing and the top skin of the flap is uniform.  Hope the above helps you out.

Regards,

Erich Trombley
N28ET Classic Mono 914



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________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:39 PM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: Rotax 912s Benchmark Performance The figures you supply are interesting in that they show relative fuel consumption with different power settings. The absolute figures will obviously change a bit for an aircraft in the air with the change on prop loads for the aircraft flying at speed. For what it is worth in practical terms I found the following relevant. Using a variety of throttle and prop settings I came to the following conclusions: 1. Despite the fact that the minimum drag speed is given as 75kts the aircraft seems to be a lot happier in terms of angle of attack once it is above 100kts. I doubt that there is much to be gained flying slower than this. 2. With that in mind I used two speeds to compare fuel flows: 105kts and 120kts IAS 3. At 120kts the difference between 4500rpm and 5000rpm gave negligible differences in fuel flow as greater throttle settings were needed at 4500rpm. 4. At 105kts there was a 1.5litres/hr benefit from using 4500rpm over 5000rpm. 5. Although the fuel flow is significantly lower at 105kts the better overall economy is not much better because you fly 15nm less in any given hour. The engine gives better fuel flows with lower OAT so I generally found it worthwhile climbing to 7000-8000ft in hot weather to get cooler air into the engine. Some day I must do some comparison figures up there as well. Hope this is of interest. Regards Nigel Charles -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu Sent: 04 April 2007 14:19 Subject: Europa-List: Fw: Rotax 912s Benchmark Performance Greetings All, I have been interested for some time in developing a set of performance data for the Rotax 912s as installed in my Europa Trigear. This information, provided in the POH of all certificated constant speed propellor aircraft is sadly lacking from Europa or Rotax manuals. I am enclosing the static performance data at sea level on a standard pressure day for my engine. The aircraft is chocked and not moving. At some point soon I hope to add the data including TAS airspeed at 3000, 6000, 9000 feet density altitude. NM means not measured because I thought higher power would jump my chocks! Hopefully this data will allow us to make informed choices for MP and RPM settings for speed or economy, etc. At this point I would appreciate comments on the data and methods, etc. Cheers, Ira N224XS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.