---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/14/07: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:29 AM - brake hose routing XS mono (Keith Hickling) 2. 10:01 AM - Re: brake hose routing XS mono (NevEyre@aol.com) 3. 12:22 PM - EFIS thoughts (MJKTuck@cs.com) 4. 12:26 PM - 912 Voltage Regulator Values (Steve Crimm) 5. 12:27 PM - 912 Voltage Regulator Values (Steve Crimm) 6. 01:05 PM - Re: EFIS thoughts (Trevpond@aol.com) 7. 02:01 PM - Re: EFIS thoughts (EuropaXSA276@aol.com) 8. 02:19 PM - Sun n Fun (Alan Burrows) 9. 03:07 PM - Re: Sun n Fun (nigel charles) 10. 03:25 PM - Re: Sun n Fun (N55XS) 11. 03:28 PM - Re: 912 Voltage Regulator Values (nigel charles) 12. 04:02 PM - Re: Sun n Fun (rick) 13. 04:29 PM - Re: Sun n Fun Jeff (EuropaXSA276@aol.com) 14. 05:03 PM - Re: Sun n Fun Jeff (N55XS) 15. 05:19 PM - Re: EFIS thoughts (Keith Hickling) 16. 06:22 PM - Re: EFIS thoughts (Keith Hickling) 17. 07:08 PM - Re: Sun n Fun (Kim Prout) 18. 08:48 PM - Re: EFIS thoughts (Paul McAllister) 19. 09:49 PM - Re: EFIS thoughts (glenn crowder) 20. 10:21 PM - Re: brake hose routing XS mono (William Mills) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:29:53 AM PST US From: Keith Hickling Subject: Europa-List: brake hose routing XS mono Evening all, Can someone please help me with the routing of the brake hose? The manual says to rout it from the brake caliper up the swing arm, forward of the LG08 retraction arms and over the top of the large horizontal tube of the LG mounting frame that the LG09 shaft goes through, up to the top of the tunnel and back to the master cylinder. But my hose is 15 - 20 cm too short for that routing. It is 121 cm long from the screw fittings, and this is not long enough even to go directly from the master cylinder directly forward to the large tube on the LG mounting frame and directly back to the slave cylinder. Roger Bull tells me that 121 cm is the standard length. So have I misunderstood the manual? Has anyone else had this problem? Can someone with it accessible please measure the length of their hose for me? Thanks, Keith Hickling, New Zealand, Kit 613 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:01:16 AM PST US From: NevEyre@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: brake hose routing XS mono Hi Keith, There was a batch of brake lines sent out by Europa [ the '' old '' Europa ] that were too short, guess you must have one of those ? Get EO4 to supply you with a length to suit, tell them it is the BLACK line you need. You don't need the fittings [ cut them off the old one ] as the ends get flared the first time you fit the pipe. Cheers, Nev. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:13 PM PST US From: MJKTuck@cs.com Subject: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Hi Folks, I'm thinking (dreaming I think at this stage) to upgrade my panel to EFIS. I like the combined EFIS/EMS by the likes of Dynon. Anyone got any panel shots of an EFIS equipped Europa as I'm interested to see how the water temp as well as oil temps and pressures are displayed. Also I figure just a VFR panel is all I need. I'm not so keen on having all your primary instrumentation in one box. If the box gets a fault in flight you loose everything so I figure some kind of mechanical backup (or secondary EMS of some kind) is necessary. Any thoughts on what instrumentation should have backup and how? Regards, Martin Tuck Europa N152MT Wichita, Kansas ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:26:45 PM PST US From: "Steve Crimm" Subject: Europa-List: 912 Voltage Regulator Values Got 912 regulator questions, after lots of trouble shooting of the electrics, I think I have narrowed it down to regulator not functioning correctly. But first some questions... 1. What is the a/c voltage input to the the regulator supposed to be? I am showing 15.4 2. What is the d/c output voltage supposed to be? I am showing voltage of 12.85 (battery voltage I believe)? My thinking is that it should be 14.5 or some where in that neighborhood. Thanks, Steve ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:04 PM PST US From: "Steve Crimm" Subject: Europa-List: 912 Voltage Regulator Values Got 912 regulator questions, after lots of trouble shooting of the electrics, I think I have narrowed it down to regulator not functioning correctly. But first some questions... 1. What is the a/c voltage input to the the regulator supposed to be? I am showing 15.4 2. What is the d/c output voltage supposed to be? I am showing voltage of 12.85 (battery voltage I believe)? My thinking is that it should be 14.5 or some where in that neighborhood. Thanks, Steve ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:05:58 PM PST US From: Trevpond@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Hi Martin, Saw your note on the Europa Web and thought you would like a picture of my panel. Note that I also have a complete set of miniature guages - I feel that they are essential. The EFIS is a Blue Mountain Lite plus Gen 4 and it is pretty good although the earlier ones were very troublesome. kind regards Trev Pond G-LINN ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:01:16 PM PST US From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Hi Trev. I'm looking very close to your same setup. But using the large Dynon in place of the Blue Mountain. What is that back up instrument between the Airspeed and the Altimeter? It's not an electronic miniature horizon is it? It is not clear to me if full size ASI ALT and AI will fit in the panel under a Dynon D100. It looks too tight. There are a number of option for 2 1/2" AS and ALT but few Attitude indicators. The only one I have found is from Mid West Instruments. They offer a small trio pack. ASI ALT and AI The 2" trio backup set from Mid West is unbelievably expensive. I would like to consider options to that same setup Brian Skelly Europa XS TriGear #A276 North Texas USA You can see my build photos at: http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:19:24 PM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: Europa-List: Sun n Fun Hi All Who is coming over from UK/ Europe for Sun n Fun ? Kate & I will be there Wed,Thurs and possibly Friday Look forward to seeing everyone Kind Regards Alan -- 20:04 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:07:18 PM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Sun n Fun I will be coming over to the show on Wednesday. Nigel Charles -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Burrows Sent: 14 April 2007 22:16 Subject: Europa-List: Sun n Fun Hi All Who is coming over from UK/ Europe for Sun n Fun ? Kate & I will be there Wed,Thurs and possibly Friday Look forward to seeing everyone Kind Regards Alan -- 13/04/2007 20:04 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:55 PM PST US From: N55XS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Sun n Fun Mary and I will be there Monday afternoon, though we'll be driving, as a last minute problem with Baby Blue will prevent us flying. I look forward to seeing everyone and discussing a possible cure to N55XS' illness. Jeff Alan Burrows wrote: > Hi All > > Who is coming over from UK/ Europe for Sun n Fun ? > > Kate & I will be there Wed,Thurs and possibly Friday > > Look forward to seeing everyone > > Kind Regards > > > > Alan > > > -- > 13/04/2007 20:04 > > * > > > * > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:23 PM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: 912 Voltage Regulator Values * What is the a/c voltage input to the the regulator supposed to be? I am showing 15.4< The voltage will depend very much on how much load the regulator puts on the generator output. It is likely that the generator will provide all or nothing as it is just a collection of coils. The fact that you are reading a voltage at the input of the regulator infers that the problem is downstream of the generator. >What is the d/c output voltage supposed to be? I am showing voltage of 12.85 (battery voltage I believe)? My thinking is that it should be 14.5 or some where in that neighborhood.< Once you have a voltage over 13 volts it is pretty certain that the battery is receiving charge. An ammeter as well as a voltmeter helps to show what is happening. Mine shows about 13.8 volts when on charge. >From the sound of it your regulator is probably at fault. There are two ways to improve regulator reliability: 1. Mount it in an area where it is kept relatively cool and free of vibration. On top of the footwell is the usual choice. Added ram air directed at the regulator is a good idea particularly with Classic Europas. The under cowl temperatures with the Classic tend to be higher as the exhaust air from the radiators routes through the engine bay. I use the NACA duct on the lower starboard side of the cowl to provide ram air for cooling for the fuel pipes using 2 inch flexible pipe. The pipe outlet points at the regulator ensuring it receives a cool air supply. 2. Limit your standing load to no more than 11 amps. The Europa is a VFR aircraft so even with a fairly comprehensive panel I find this quite easy to achieve. It becomes more of a problem if you include landing or navigation lights. Nigel Charles ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:03 PM PST US From: "rick" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Sun n Fun Hi Ray and I will be at S & F on Thursday, Friday and maybe Saturday. 07850 356371. Europa stand about 11 each day. All the best. Rick G-RIKS Tri 912S. _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Burrows Sent: 14 April 2007 22:16 Subject: Europa-List: Sun n Fun Hi All Who is coming over from UK/ Europe for Sun n Fun ? Kate & I will be there Wed,Thurs and possibly Friday Look forward to seeing everyone Kind Regards Alan -- 13/04/2007 20:04 "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Europa-List 20:04 -- 20:04 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:01 PM PST US From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Sun n Fun Jeff Jeff: Will you and Mary be there on Friday? Teri and I will e there on only on that day. Illness? Brian Skelly Europa XS TriGear #A276 North Texas USA You can see my build photos at: http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:56 PM PST US From: N55XS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Sun n Fun Jeff Brian, Yes we will be there, probably leaving Saturday. Weird problem, that defies explanation. I'll tap the 912S gurus minds at the show. Hope to see you there... Jeff EuropaXSA276@aol.com wrote: > Jeff: > Will you and Mary be there on Friday? Teri and I will e there on only > on that day. Illness? > > Brian Skelly > Europa XS TriGear #A276 > North Texas USA > You can see my build photos at: > http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's free at AOL.com . > > * > > > * > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:53 PM PST US From: Keith Hickling Subject: Re: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Hi Trev, I also have the BM EFIS lite plus G4 - I think one of the early ones they shipped. Not yet installed, but on bench testing it seems fine apart from the GPS terrain display, which breaks up into quite large white triangles around the coastline, and shows only red and white. I'm not sure if this is a problem with the New Zealand terrain software or with the unit itself. I have emailed BM several times and sent them photos of this and have had no response. What are the problems with the early units that you mentioned? Any suggestions about this problem? Does anyone else have a BM EFIS lite G4, and is it working OK? Could someone going to Sun ' Fun please ask BM about this problem and why they haven't responded to my emails - many thanks. Regards, Keith Hickling, New Zealand, XS mono kit 613. ----- Original Message ----- From: Trevpond@aol.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 8:03 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Hi Martin, Saw your note on the Europa Web and thought you would like a picture of my panel. Note that I also have a complete set of miniature guages - I feel that they are essential. The EFIS is a Blue Mountain Lite plus Gen 4 and it is pretty good although the earlier ones were very troublesome. kind regards Trev Pond G-LINN ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:44 PM PST US From: Keith Hickling Subject: Re: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Hi Trev, Here is a photo of my BM EFIS GPS terrain display, showing only red and white and breaking up round the coastline. Regards, Keith Hickling, New Zealand. ----- Original Message ----- From: Trevpond@aol.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 8:03 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Hi Martin, Saw your note on the Europa Web and thought you would like a picture of my panel. Note that I also have a complete set of miniature guages - I feel that they are essential. The EFIS is a Blue Mountain Lite plus Gen 4 and it is pretty good although the earlier ones were very troublesome. kind regards Trev Pond G-LINN ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:30 PM PST US From: Kim Prout Subject: Re: Europa-List: Sun n Fun Hey Nigel! I will be helping my friends at the IK Technologies booth located in Bldg C, #074. Please come by to see me. kp ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:49 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: RE: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Hi Martin, I installed the GRT Sport and I am delighted with it. I already had the GRT EIS engine monitor so it made the decision a bit easier. I liked the Dyon but despite the manufacturers claim it isn't very readable in the sun light. The Dyon has a bigger display, and although bigger is better I couldn't have done the panel layout that you see in the photos, which is really what I wanted to do. The EFIS Sport worked perfectly right out of the box with the minimum on fuss. I intend to exchange the T&B for a 2 1/4 ADI from TruTrack when it becomes available. The ADI is a and AH + digital heading, almost like an AH & a DG in one instrument. Nice box but it is a bit expensive. Contact me off forum if you would like to know more. Regards, Paul ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:32 PM PST US From: glenn crowder Subject: RE: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Just talked to a guy tonite at the EAA meeting who was finishing up an RV7 and has had nothing but problems with the Dynon engine monitoring system. (The Dynon f light instrument system has been good tho) He says even their downloadable updates don't wor k. Very unhappy customer! Glenn From: EuropaXSA276@aol.comDate: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 16:58:13 -0400Subject: Re: Europa-List: EFIS thoughtsTo: europa-list@matronics.com Hi Trev. I'm looking very close to your same setup. But using the large Dynon in p lace of the Blue Mountain. What is that back up instrument between the Airspeed and the Altimeter? It' s not an electronic miniature horizon is it? It is not clear to me if full size ASI ALT and AI will fit in the panel und er a Dynon D100. It looks too tight. There are a number of option for 2 1/2" AS and ALT but few Attitude indica tors. The only one I have found is from Mid West Instruments. They offer a small trio pack. ASI ALT and AI The 2" trio backup set from Mid West is unbelievably expensive. I would lik e to consider options to that same setup Brian SkellyEuropa XS TriGear #A276North Texas USAYou can see my build phot os at:http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS See what's free at AOL.com. _________________________________________________________________ Live Search Maps ' find all the local information you need, right when yo u need it. http://maps.live.com/?icid=wlmtag2&FORM=MGAC01 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:30 PM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: brake hose routing XS mono Keith et al, I know of at least two Europa Monos that lost all braking owing to a leak in the brake pipe, because the brake pipes were retained by plastic cable ties. Apparently the cable ties eventually wear through the nylon and release all the brake pressure when it is needed! I replaced mine before it happened, but this time I routed the pipe to cut the corner, i.e. the bend is inside the swinging arm pivot point. This way I can keep a check on the whole length of pipe and I also use rubber lined "P" clips to retain it in position and a sleeve of split silicone tube to protect it where it might rub on the walls of the U/C tunnel. If you consider routing yours this way, I would expect your pipe is long enough. Regards, William ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Hickling To: Eurpoa List Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:02 AM Subject: Europa-List: brake hose routing XS mono Evening all, Can someone please help me with the routing of the brake hose? The manual says to rout it from the brake caliper up the swing arm, forward of the LG08 retraction arms and over the top of the large horizontal tube of the LG mounting frame that the LG09 shaft goes through, up to the top of the tunnel and back to the master cylinder. But my hose is 15 - 20 cm too short for that routing. It is 121 cm long from the screw fittings, and this is not long enough even to go directly from the master cylinder directly forward to the large tube on the LG mounting frame and directly back to the slave cylinder. Roger Bull tells me that 121 cm is the standard length. So have I misunderstood the manual? Has anyone else had this problem? Can someone with it accessible please measure the length of their hose for me? Thanks, Keith Hickling, New Zealand, Kit 613 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.