---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/15/07: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:39 AM - Re: brake hose routing XS mono (Keith Hickling) 2. 02:31 AM - Re: brake hose routing XS mono (William Mills) 3. 04:58 AM - Re: EFIS thoughts (Trevpond@aol.com) 4. 05:02 AM - Re: EFIS thoughts (Trevpond@aol.com) 5. 05:03 AM - Re: EFIS thoughts (Trevpond@aol.com) 6. 06:16 AM - Re: EFIS thoughts (EuropaXSA276@aol.com) 7. 08:34 AM - Re: EFIS thoughts (Trevpond@aol.com) 8. 08:52 AM - Re: EFIS thoughts (Europa List) 9. 09:18 AM - Re: EFIS thoughts (William Daniell) 10. 09:35 AM - YAESU Aviator Pilot II (William Daniell) 11. 09:54 AM - Re: YAESU Aviator Pilot II (Pete Lawless) 12. 11:01 AM - Re: EFIS thoughts (Peter Rees) 13. 11:17 AM - Re: Fw: Tour de France 2007 June 2-10th (Dari Sagar) 14. 12:04 PM - Re: EFIS thoughts (D Wysong) 15. 12:46 PM - Axle NUts (Al Stills) 16. 05:53 PM - Re: YAESU Aviator Pilot II (William Daniell) 17. 11:39 PM - Re: YAESU Aviator Pilot II (Pete Lawless) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:22 AM PST US From: Keith Hickling Subject: Re: Europa-List: brake hose routing XS mono Thanks William. Did you route yours along the wall of the tunnel going forward from the master cylinder? I have considered this routing - forward and down from the master cylinder, crossing the rudder cable just behind the tufnol rubbing block and against the tunnel wall (my rudder cables are in nylaflow tubing anyway). Then a gentle curve passing a little behind the swing arm bearings, then back down the swing arm. As you say, my cable is just long enough for this route. And I'll avoid cable ties! No problems with your redo? Regards, Keith. ----- Original Message ----- From: William Mills To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 5:18 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: brake hose routing XS mono Keith et al, I know of at least two Europa Monos that lost all braking owing to a leak in the brake pipe, because the brake pipes were retained by plastic cable ties. Apparently the cable ties eventually wear through the nylon and release all the brake pressure when it is needed! I replaced mine before it happened, but this time I routed the pipe to cut the corner, i.e. the bend is inside the swinging arm pivot point. This way I can keep a check on the whole length of pipe and I also use rubber lined "P" clips to retain it in position and a sleeve of split silicone tube to protect it where it might rub on the walls of the U/C tunnel. If you consider routing yours this way, I would expect your pipe is long enough. Regards, William ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Hickling To: Eurpoa List Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:02 AM Subject: Europa-List: brake hose routing XS mono Evening all, Can someone please help me with the routing of the brake hose? The manual says to rout it from the brake caliper up the swing arm, forward of the LG08 retraction arms and over the top of the large horizontal tube of the LG mounting frame that the LG09 shaft goes through, up to the top of the tunnel and back to the master cylinder. But my hose is 15 - 20 cm too short for that routing. It is 121 cm long from the screw fittings, and this is not long enough even to go directly from the master cylinder directly forward to the large tube on the LG mounting frame and directly back to the slave cylinder. Roger Bull tells me that 121 cm is the standard length. So have I misunderstood the manual? Has anyone else had this problem? Can someone with it accessible please measure the length of their hose for me? Thanks, Keith Hickling, New Zealand, Kit 613 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:31:46 AM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: brake hose routing XS mono Yes, that is the exact route. A nice gentle curve against the tunnel wall from the master cylinder forwards and down to the top of the swinging arm passing inside the rudder cables. Most Monos have rotated the slave cylinder rear-wards, so that it is horizontal when the U/C is retracted; inline with the forks. It is less vulnerable when on the ground and is out of the slipstream when retracted. No problems with the redo. Regards, William ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Hickling To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 8:35 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: brake hose routing XS mono Thanks William. Did you route yours along the wall of the tunnel going forward from the master cylinder? I have considered this routing - forward and down from the master cylinder, crossing the rudder cable just behind the tufnol rubbing block and against the tunnel wall (my rudder cables are in nylaflow tubing anyway). Then a gentle curve passing a little behind the swing arm bearings, then back down the swing arm. As you say, my cable is just long enough for this route. And I'll avoid cable ties! No problems with your redo? Regards, Keith. ----- Original Message ----- From: William Mills To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 5:18 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: brake hose routing XS mono Keith et al, I know of at least two Europa Monos that lost all braking owing to a leak in the brake pipe, because the brake pipes were retained by plastic cable ties. Apparently the cable ties eventually wear through the nylon and release all the brake pressure when it is needed! I replaced mine before it happened, but this time I routed the pipe to cut the corner, i.e. the bend is inside the swinging arm pivot point. This way I can keep a check on the whole length of pipe and I also use rubber lined "P" clips to retain it in position and a sleeve of split silicone tube to protect it where it might rub on the walls of the U/C tunnel. If you consider routing yours this way, I would expect your pipe is long enough. Regards, William ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Hickling To: Eurpoa List Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:02 AM Subject: Europa-List: brake hose routing XS mono Evening all, Can someone please help me with the routing of the brake hose? The manual says to rout it from the brake caliper up the swing arm, forward of the LG08 retraction arms and over the top of the large horizontal tube of the LG mounting frame that the LG09 shaft goes through, up to the top of the tunnel and back to the master cylinder. But my hose is 15 - 20 cm too short for that routing. It is 121 cm long from the screw fittings, and this is not long enough even to go directly from the master cylinder directly forward to the large tube on the LG mounting frame and directly back to the slave cylinder. Roger Bull tells me that 121 cm is the standard length. So have I misunderstood the manual? Has anyone else had this problem? Can someone with it accessible please measure the length of their hose for me? Thanks, Keith Hickling, New Zealand, Kit 613 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 11/04/2007 17:14 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:45 AM PST US From: Trevpond@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Hi Brian, Yes, it is a little solid state Horizon. Trev ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:09 AM PST US From: Trevpond@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Hi Keith, I had an original EFIS Lite that was upgraded with a remote screen. The Horizon continually toppled and BMA replaced the unit with the latest G4 Sport. BMA are good to deal with and you need to speak to Larry Romig about any queries you may have. Map is very good and everything works as on the Tin but earthing is a problem as the unit generates quite a lot of "noise". I have put ferrites on all of the cables coming out of the plugs on the EFIS and this has certainly helped along with a separate earth strap to the case of the unit to the Earth Bus. Trev G-LINN ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:43 AM PST US From: Trevpond@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Keith, Definately speak to Larry Romig at BMA!! Trev ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:21 AM PST US From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts In a message dated 4/15/2007 6:59:27 AM Central Daylight Time, Trevpond@aol.com writes: Hi Brian, Yes, it is a little solid state Horizon. Thanks Trev. Brand name please? Brian Skelly Europa XS TriGear #A276 North Texas USA You can see my build photos at: http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:16 AM PST US From: Trevpond@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Hi Keith, Yes, it's: _http://www.pcflightsystems.com/_ (http://www.pcflightsystems.com/) . regards Trev ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:31 AM PST US From: "Europa List" Subject: Re: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Hi Martin, I have purchased the Grand Rapids Technology dual screen Efis and EIS. Unfortunately, I have not wired it all up yet. I'm severly challanged when it comes to sparks. Their drawings and instructions are easy to follow and they are extremely responsive if I call with a question. I'm just having trouble withe the wiring of a second 40 amp alternator as my primary source of power. I have the GPS built into the unit and though not IFR certified, all who have used it love it. With two screens, there is no limit as to how you can display attitude, engine and GPS info. Since I bought the unit, they have added terrain, weather, and mode s traffic. Anything that they add can be added to my set-up, but weather and mode-s info is an additional cost (also when purchased new). You can buy a single screen system and upgrade to dual screen later for the same cost as buying dual screen initially. I can also add dual AHRS and Magetometers if I want electronic redundancy. What really made the sale for me was the brilliance of their screen, especially since their booth at Sun n Fun faced the big open hanger doors. Some of the units yhat I looked at were not as clear even thouht they were in a dark corner of the booth. Here is a link to their web site. Check it out if you have not already. http://www.grtavionics.com/ Vaughn Teegarden XS mono, 914 with Airmaster planned ----- Original Message ----- From: MJKTuck@cs.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 3:20 PM Subject: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Hi Folks, I'm thinking (dreaming I think at this stage) to upgrade my panel to EFIS. I like the combined EFIS/EMS by the likes of Dynon. Anyone got any panel shots of an EFIS equipped Europa as I'm interested to see how the water temp as well as oil temps and pressures are displayed. Also I figure just a VFR panel is all I need. I'm not so keen on having all your primary instrumentation in one box. If the box gets a fault in flight you loose everything so I figure some kind of mechanical backup (or secondary EMS of some kind) is necessary. Any thoughts on what instrumentation should have backup and how? Regards, Martin Tuck Europa N152MT Wichita, Kansas ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:26 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts It might seem a little unsophisticated but I have had one of these pcflight systems egyro connected to an iPaq as a portable backup for rentals and latterly in my own Zenith. I bought on spec thinking that the price was sufficiently low for it not to be a disaster if it didn't work. In the event it has worked very well. Craig Sellers has always responded rapidly to questions and he quickly replaced a unit which did not "talk" to my GPS. Will http://www.pcflightsystems.com/ _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of EuropaXSA276@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 15:58 Subject: Re: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Hi Trev. I'm looking very close to your same setup. But using the large Dynon in place of the Blue Mountain. What is that back up instrument between the Airspeed and the Altimeter? It's not an electronic miniature horizon is it? It is not clear to me if full size ASI ALT and AI will fit in the panel under a Dynon D100. It looks too tight. There are a number of option for 2 1/2" AS and ALT but few Attitude indicators. The only one I have found is from Mid West Instruments. They offer a small trio pack. ASI ALT and AI The 2" trio backup set from Mid West is unbelievably expensive. I would like to consider options to that same setup Brian Skelly Europa XS TriGear #A276 North Texas USA You can see my build photos at: http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS _____ See what's free at AOL.com . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:17 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: Europa-List: YAESU Aviator Pilot II Has anyone "plumbed in" opne of these portables. I think I saw one attached to a panel but I can't remember where. Apparently it is not as simple as just connecting the headset and an antenna extension. You get a strong whine through the headset. I am told by Yaesu helpdesk that you need a ferrite choke. Not wishing to appear ignorant.but what the hell is a ferrite choke? Will ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:11 AM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: YAESU Aviator Pilot II Hi Will A ferrite choke is a coil of wire wound onto a ferrite rod. It has the effect of passing DC ok but offering a high resistance to AC. If you put it in the supply line to whatever an Aviator Pilot is it stops the stray AC getting through and kills the whine. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 15 April 2007 17:32 Subject: Europa-List: YAESU Aviator Pilot II Has anyone "plumbed in" opne of these portables. I think I saw one attached to a panel but I can't remember where. Apparently it is not as simple as just connecting the headset and an antenna extension. You get a strong whine through the headset. I am told by Yaesu helpdesk that you need a ferrite choke. Not wishing to appear ignorant.but what the hell is a ferrite choke? Will -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:16 AM PST US From: "Peter Rees" Subject: Re: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Thats a big surprise - we've updated the firmware on our Dynon EFIS about 4 times (not through necessity - they keep adding new features for free!). Always goes seamlessly and takes about 2 minutes. We have never found the screen brightness on our Dynon unreadable even in direct sunlight. Have to say that I'm a very happy Dynon customer - the D10A is a really great product and I've always found them to be very responsive to queries / suggestions. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: glenn crowder To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 5:46 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Just talked to a guy tonite at the EAA meeting who was finishing up an RV7 and has had nothing but problems with the Dynon engine monitoring system. (The Dynon flight instrument system has been good tho) He says even their downloadable updates don't work. Very unhappy customer! Glenn ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 16:58:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts To: europa-list@matronics.com Hi Trev. I'm looking very close to your same setup. But using the large Dynon in place of the Blue Mountain. What is that back up instrument between the Airspeed and the Altimeter? It's not an electronic miniature horizon is it? It is not clear to me if full size ASI ALT and AI will fit in the panel under a Dynon D100. It looks too tight. There are a number of option for 2 1/2" AS and ALT but few Attitude indicators. The only one I have found is from Mid West Instruments. They offer a small trio pack. ASI ALT and AI The 2" trio backup set from Mid West is unbelievably expensive. I would like to consider options to that same setup Brian Skelly Europa XS TriGear #A276 North Texas USA You can see my build photos at: http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- See what's free at AOL.com. arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List p://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Live Search Maps ' find all the local information you need, right when you need it. Find it! ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:13 AM PST US From: "Dari Sagar" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: Tour de France 2007 June 2-10th William, Do I understand that you'll be in the UK shortly? If so, why not spend a few days with us here in beautiful Upton Snodsbury? You are most welcome. I sold my Europa on my return home from our South American trip, but am still flying as I have joined a syndicate which operate a mono-wheel Europa. It's unlikely that we'll be going on the Tour de France trip this time around as we've got a few other committments which clash tour dates. Anyway, if you are in the country give me a bell. (Home): 01905 381688 (Mobile): 07900 056343. Gail sends regards. Cheers, Dari >From: "William Daniell" >To: >Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: Tour de France 2007 June 2-10th Date: >Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:14:28 -0500 > >Anyone want a co-pilot? > > > _____ > >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Hitchcock >Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 14:03 >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: Fw: Tour de France 2007 June 2-10th > > >Last call > > >The flavour of the tour will be unchanged: essentially it is a fairly >gentle >trip allowing plenty of time to experience the delights of France. > > While most participants are experienced, it is the ideal trip for first >time cross-channel pilots and for wives who dont think that being in a >plane all day is what makes a perfect holiday! > >We intend to include a visit to La Fert Alais where there is a magnificent >collection of old aircraft. Contact Bob (robert.hitchcock@virgin.net tel. >01773 825864. > > _________________________________________________________________ Solve the Conspiracy and win fantastic prizes. http://www.theconspiracygame.co.uk/ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:35 PM PST US From: "D Wysong" Subject: Re: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts Hello Keith, Sounds like you're seeing a lack of terrain data (white, or red/white checks). BMA had issues around the US coastline, too, but the recent terrain database (Feb 07) "fixes" the problem and it doesn't look as bad. You might try a software update to see if the "fix" applies to the NZ coastline, too. I wouldn't bet on it... but it's worth a shot. It shouldn't affect the operation of the unit at all, but it will certainly be annoying seeing all of that checkerboarded terrain! If the software update doesn't change things, send notes to both Greg and Ross directly (greg@ and ross@bluemountainavionics.com) to see if they can work the problem. They're busy, but it's uncommon for them not to respond at all. Good luck! D Time: 05:19:53 PM PST US > From: Keith Hickling > Subject: Re: Europa-List: EFIS thoughts > > Hi Trev, > I also have the BM EFIS lite plus G4 - I think one of the early ones > they shipped. Not yet installed, but on bench testing it seems fine > apart from the GPS terrain display, which breaks up into quite large > white triangles around the coastline, and shows only red and white. I'm > not sure if this is a problem with the New Zealand terrain software or > with the unit itself. I have emailed BM several times and sent them > photos of this and have had no response. > > What are the problems with the early units that you mentioned? Any > suggestions about this problem? Does anyone else have a BM EFIS lite G4, > and is it working OK? > > Could someone going to Sun ' Fun please ask BM about this problem and > why they haven't responded to my emails - many thanks. > > Regards, > Keith Hickling, > New Zealand, > XS mono kit 613. > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:27 PM PST US From: "Al Stills" Subject: Europa-List: Axle NUts Does anyone know the size of the Tri-gear axle nuts=85=85The factory number is AN960-2016. I think it=92s 1 =BC=94 X 16 thread but need to be sure Al Stills N625AZ 40 Hrs flown off=85=85=85..what a thrill ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:41 PM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: YAESU Aviator Pilot II Thanks Pete The radio is a self contained handheld. It has an adapter for use with headphones. It works fine without headset but when you use the adapter you get the whine. The yaesu email help desk said use this ferrite choke thing (I now know what they mean) but not where to put it.. I am assuming that the ferrite choke would go on the headset cable? Is it the same thing as you get round laptop power cables? Will _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 11:52 Subject: RE: Europa-List: YAESU Aviator Pilot II Hi Will A ferrite choke is a coil of wire wound onto a ferrite rod. It has the effect of passing DC ok but offering a high resistance to AC. If you put it in the supply line to whatever an Aviator Pilot is it stops the stray AC getting through and kills the whine. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 15 April 2007 17:32 Subject: Europa-List: YAESU Aviator Pilot II Has anyone "plumbed in" opne of these portables. I think I saw one attached to a panel but I can't remember where. Apparently it is not as simple as just connecting the headset and an antenna extension. You get a strong whine through the headset. I am told by Yaesu helpdesk that you need a ferrite choke. Not wishing to appear ignorant.but what the hell is a ferrite choke? Will -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:28 PM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: YAESU Aviator Pilot II Morning Will There seem to be two sorts one which is a component and is actually connected in series with the wire and another that simply wraps around the outside of the cable those are the bumps on the PC cables (I think). I would ask Yaesu for more information (make and model number and where in the set up it goes) I would guess round the headset cable to cut out the stray hum. Radios are strange things, the one that has always worked most reliably for me has been my Icom handheld (Now 15 years old) with or without headset plugged in. Good luck. Pete If it whines when away from the aeroplane you could take to whole setup to say Radio Shack and try the fix in the shop. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 16 April 2007 01:50 Subject: RE: Europa-List: YAESU Aviator Pilot II Thanks Pete The radio is a self contained handheld. It has an adapter for use with headphones. It works fine without headset but when you use the adapter you get the whine. The yaesu email help desk said use this ferrite choke thing (I now know what they mean) but not where to put it.. I am assuming that the ferrite choke would go on the headset cable? Is it the same thing as you get round laptop power cables? Will _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 11:52 Subject: RE: Europa-List: YAESU Aviator Pilot II Hi Will A ferrite choke is a coil of wire wound onto a ferrite rod. It has the effect of passing DC ok but offering a high resistance to AC. If you put it in the supply line to whatever an Aviator Pilot is it stops the stray AC getting through and kills the whine. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 15 April 2007 17:32 Subject: Europa-List: YAESU Aviator Pilot II Has anyone "plumbed in" opne of these portables. I think I saw one attached to a panel but I can't remember where. Apparently it is not as simple as just connecting the headset and an antenna extension. You get a strong whine through the headset. I am told by Yaesu helpdesk that you need a ferrite choke. Not wishing to appear ignorant.but what the hell is a ferrite choke? Will http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.