---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/20/07: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:13 AM - Re: More EFIS Thoughts (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 2. 12:17 AM - Re: Mod 72 (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 3. 01:09 AM - Re: Mod 72 (karelvranken) 4. 09:21 AM - Re: Lack of Europas for sale (europa flugzeug fabrik) 5. 09:44 AM - Re: Lack of Europas for sale (Sven den Boer) 6. 11:07 AM - Heathrow FBU new phone and fax numbers (nigel charles) 7. 11:16 AM - broken leg (josok) 8. 11:45 AM - Re: broken leg (R.C.Harrison) 9. 12:09 PM - Re: broken leg (Paul Boulet) 10. 12:32 PM - Re: broken leg (josok) 11. 12:45 PM - Re: broken leg (josok) 12. 12:45 PM - Re: broken leg (Raimo Toivio) 13. 01:20 PM - Re: broken leg (Paul Boulet) 14. 01:50 PM - Re: broken leg (Graham Singleton) 15. 02:13 PM - Re: broken leg (Paul McAllister) 16. 03:21 PM - Re: broken leg (R.C.Harrison) 17. 07:30 PM - Re: broken leg (Michael Grass) 18. 10:34 PM - Re: broken leg (Ralph K. Hallett III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:00 AM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: More EFIS Thoughts It just so happens to be the right size to fit under a plastic box lid that I have. It's open on the sides for wire access. Do Not Archive Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300 Sensenich R64Z N Ground Adjustable Prop ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:33 AM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 72 Erich, I measured the distance from the outer edge down into the tube until I hit the frame mounting bolt that's inside there. This way I was sure I had the room to power seat (ball peen hammer and a block of wood) the insert into place. Took a little effort, but it won't come out! Now I see why they didn't call for any adhesive. Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300 Sensenich R64Z N Ground Adjustable Prop ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:09:58 AM PST US From: "karelvranken" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 72 Erich, I had the same experience. Prepare it for definitely drive in and with a rubber hammer and a piece of wood the tubes go in at the bottom. My friend Dirk Oyen did about the same but IMHO he waited to long for the fix so that the metal painture on the tubes became dry and hard. Finally he had to cut of about 1 inch of one of the tubes because he couldn't get it out anymore. Though he assures me that it was reamed at the bottom. Succes, Karel Vranken, # 447 Mono XS, Rotax 912ULS, Airmaster AP332. ----- Original Message ----- From: Erich Trombley To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 2:02 AM Subject: Europa-List: Mod 72 For those that have completed Mod 72, did you have to drive the insert into position or did it slide all the way into position. I am able to get the insert slid most of the way into the tube leaving about 1" to be driven in with a punch. I hate to start driving the insert in only to realize that I am unable to seat it fully. Regards, Erich Trombley ________________________________________________________________________ Interested in getting caught up on today's news? Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:52 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Lack of Europas for sale From: "europa flugzeug fabrik" garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com wrote: > ...and in the nationally distributed "Trade-a-Plane" magazine which is distributed to about 800,000 people at Sun N'Fun. Not a single telephone call of inquiry. Sorry, but there's no 800,000 people who go there. The number of "discrete people" is around 40,000. This was disclosed a couple year ago following local media investigating for the truth. Oshkosh is therefore only around 70,000. A fair fraction of these people are vendors, exhibitors, and volunteers. Fred F. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108119#108119 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:55 AM PST US From: "Sven den Boer" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lack of Europas for sale Though very Happy, I still have my bird up for sale. 2001 Europa Tri-Gear XS PH-SBR Best Regards, Sven den Boer A168 PH-SBR ----- Original Message ----- From: "jturner" Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 10:31 AM Subject: Europa-List: Lack of Europas for sale > > Just and observation. > With 221 on the UK register they don't seem to come up for sale that > often. > > Looking back over previous years PFA mags there always seemed to be > several for sale at any one time, now I might see on every so often. > > Guess owners are happy. > > Jon > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:54 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: Europa-List: Heathrow FBU new phone and fax numbers For those of you filing flight plans from the southern part of the UK the phone and fax numbers for Heathrow FBU have changed. The NOTAM reads as follows:- B0729/07 NOTAMN A) EGTT B) 0704210001 C) PERM E) REF UK AIP ENR 1-10-3, SECTION 1.9.5 PARENT UNIT LONDON HEATHROW. AMEND TEL +44-(0)20-8745 3111 / 3163 TO READ +44-(0)20-8750 2615 / 2616. AMEND FAX +44-(0)20-8745 3491 / 3492 TO READ +44-(0)20-8750 2617 / 2618.) END Regards Nigel Charles ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:16:30 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: broken leg From: "josok" Hi Folks, We (Wife and i) were moving the plane back on the trailer, when the port outrigger leg just snapped in two. This kit has not moved very much yet. There was no visible damage to the leg. The painter painted those legs too, with the standard paint the factory has. Could that have caused some change all through the material, or is this just a bad batch? Have these massive nylon bars broken before just by hand-moving? Good days (yesterday) and bad days (today) come and go :-) Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:45:06 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: broken leg Hi! Jos. Just out of interest what was the ambient temperature when it broke? Regards Bob Harrison. Robt.C.Harrison -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of josok Sent: 20 April 2007 19:16 Subject: Europa-List: broken leg Hi Folks, We (Wife and i) were moving the plane back on the trailer, when the port outrigger leg just snapped in two. This kit has not moved very much yet. There was no visible damage to the leg. The painter painted those legs too, with the standard paint the factory has. Could that have caused some change all through the material, or is this just a bad batch? Have these massive nylon bars broken before just by hand-moving? Good days (yesterday) and bad days (today) come and go :-) Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:09:50 PM PST US From: Paul Boulet Subject: Re: Europa-List: broken leg Hi Jos; You're lucky they brok on the trailer instead of while landing which mine did (causing about $3,000 of damage in the process). Mine were about 4 years old by the time I was flight testing and the feeling was they simply don't have a very long shelf life. Others may disagree but I'd replace them every three years if it was my bird (I've since converted to tri gear). Paul Boulet, N914PB, Malibu, California. 25 hours of flight testing complete and 15 more to go before I add paint and upholstery.... so far LOVING the way it flies (thank you Phoenix Composites!) ----- Original Message ---- From: josok Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 11:16:02 AM Subject: Europa-List: broken leg Hi Folks, We (Wife and i) were moving the plane back on the trailer, when the port outrigger leg just snapped in two. This kit has not moved very much yet. There was no visible damage to the leg. The painter painted those legs too, with the standard paint the factory has. Could that have caused some change all through the material, or is this just a bad batch? Have these massive nylon bars broken before just by hand-moving? Good days (yesterday) and bad days (today) come and go :-) Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:32:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: broken leg From: "josok" Hi Bob, It was about 4 Celcius. Nice weather, sunny. I don't think nylon, (if it is nylon), is suspectible to cold temperatures. It really baffles me, i did expect to break about everything, but not this one :-) Regards, Jos Okhuijsen ps Hope you are mounting your 914 now? Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:45:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: broken leg From: "josok" Hi Paul, Yes, it's good it happened now, although my wife, who catched the wingtip on her leg is not so happy. Her leg is not broken, "only" hurts. 4 years? My build started 3 and a half year ago, could be a batch problem. Thanks for the input, Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:45:30 PM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: broken leg Jos, not possible *. The painter painted those legs too, with the standard paint the factory has. Could that have caused some change all through the material, or is this just a bad batch? Have these massive nylon bars broken before just by hand-moving? * Must be a bad batch. Nothing to do with painting. I have painted legs also. Wish no other damages! The Best days are near of You. Raimo Good days (yesterday) and bad days (today) come and go :-) > > Regards, > > Jos Okhuijsen > > > > > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:09 PM PST US From: Paul Boulet Subject: Re: Europa-List: broken leg My kit was delivered 7 years ago so I doubt it's a batch problem Paul ----- Original Message ---- From: josok Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 12:44:55 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: broken leg Hi Paul, Yes, it's good it happened now, although my wife, who catched the wingtip on her leg is not so happy. Her leg is not broken, "only" hurts. 4 years? My build started 3 and a half year ago, could be a batch problem. Thanks for the input, Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:45 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: broken leg Jos I wonder if the nylon (I think it's 6-6 but could be wrong) could have recrystallised at very low temperatures? Hard to imagine it should. Factory did a lot of research in the early days and did break some but under considerable load. I saw legs bent level with the ground on our aircraft when Pete Clarke was agressively taxying it prior to first flight. Graham josok wrote: > > Hi Folks, > We (Wife and i) were moving the plane back on the trailer, when the port outrigger leg just snapped in two. This kit has not moved very much yet. There was no visible damage to the leg. The painter painted those legs too, with the standard paint the factory has. Could that have caused some change all through the material, or is this just a bad batch? Have these massive nylon bars broken before just by hand-moving? Good days (yesterday) and bad days (today) come and go :-) > > Regards, > > Jos Okhuijsen > > > > > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > > > > > > > -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: +447739582005 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:40 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: RE: Europa-List: broken leg Jos, These legs are made from Nylon 66. My experience is that they are very flexible (even in winter) but I change mine every year when I do my annual. I doubt if they need changing that often but the material is inexpensive to buy in the US so I just do it. Paul ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:44 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: broken leg Hi! Jos Hope your "managers" leg is now mending OK ......and of course the aircraft one ? I paid for the 914 today at Kirbymoorside, and hope to collect it next Wednesday although still have to do some preparation on the fuselage . Regards Bob. Robt.C.Harrison ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:57 PM PST US From: "Michael Grass" Subject: Re: Europa-List: broken leg All, I made a little while an interesting observation with tie raps (not sure about spelling) which I believe are made from similar nylon material as your outrigger legs. I have a lot of experience with the cable tie raps based on my previous job where I used a lot of them. You can rely totally abuse them and they stay flexible. Last year when I bonded the top on, I realized that some of the tie raps got really brittle like hard plastic. I wondered why. The only thing I could come up with is that they got in contact with acetone. Now I made a test. I wiped a couple of tie raps with acetone and left them for a day. After this 1 day waiting time I just bended the tie rap and they broke just like hard plastic. Totally weird. The only thing I can come up with is that the Acetone changed the outer surface properties of the tie rap and made it very brittle. So with this observation: Could it be that you experienced the same thing here? Did you or the painter cleaned the legs with acetone? Or did the paint changed some of the properties of the nylon? Again, I do not know what exactly the Acetone did to my tie raps but the more educated chemist might be able to chip in here with an explanation. Blue skies up Michael Grass Europa XS Tri Gear Detroit, Mi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raimo Toivio" Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 3:47 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: broken leg > > Jos, not possible > > *. The painter painted those legs too, with the standard paint the factory > has. Could that have caused some change all through the material, or is > this just a bad batch? Have these massive nylon bars broken before just by > hand-moving? > * > > Must be a bad batch. Nothing to do with painting. > I have painted legs also. Wish no other damages! > > The Best days are near of You. > > Raimo > > Good days (yesterday) and bad days (today) come and go :-) >> >> Regards, >> >> Jos Okhuijsen >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:10 PM PST US From: "Ralph K. Hallett III" Subject: Re: Europa-List: broken leg Michael, Great input! You might have something there... Ralph MG Reno, NV Michael Grass wrote: > > All, > > I made a little while an interesting observation with tie raps (not > sure about spelling) which I believe are made from similar nylon > material as your outrigger legs. I have a lot of experience with the > cable tie raps based on my previous job where I used a lot of them. > You can rely totally abuse them and they stay flexible. > > Last year when I bonded the top on, I realized that some of the tie > raps got really brittle like hard plastic. I wondered why. The only > thing I could come up with is that they got in contact with acetone. > > Now I made a test. I wiped a couple of tie raps with acetone and left > them for a day. After this 1 day waiting time I just bended the tie > rap and they broke just like hard plastic. Totally weird. The only > thing I can come up with is that the Acetone changed the outer surface > properties of the tie rap and made it very brittle. > > So with this observation: Could it be that you experienced the same > thing here? Did you or the painter cleaned the legs with acetone? Or > did the paint changed some of the properties of the nylon? > > Again, I do not know what exactly the Acetone did to my tie raps but > the more educated chemist might be able to chip in here with an > explanation. > > Blue skies up > > Michael Grass > Europa XS Tri Gear > Detroit, Mi > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raimo Toivio" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 3:47 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: broken leg > > >> >> Jos, not possible >> >> *. The painter painted those legs too, with the standard paint the >> factory has. Could that have caused some change all through the >> material, or is this just a bad batch? Have these massive nylon bars >> broken before just by hand-moving? >> * >> >> Must be a bad batch. Nothing to do with painting. >> I have painted legs also. Wish no other damages! >> >> The Best days are near of You. >> >> Raimo >> >> Good days (yesterday) and bad days (today) come and go :-) >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Jos Okhuijsen >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.