Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:54 AM - Re: First engine start (Raimo Toivio)
2. 04:35 AM - AT3000 altitude encoder (=?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Guerner?=)
3. 04:51 AM - Re: Baby Blue is back! (Jos Okhuijsen)
4. 04:59 AM - Warp Drive propeller blades (flyingphil2)
5. 05:29 AM - Re: Baby Blue is back! (Gilles Thesee)
6. 05:38 AM - Re: First engine start (Gilles Thesee)
7. 05:55 AM - Re: AT3000 altitude encoder (C Richardson)
8. 06:26 AM - Re: Warp Drive propeller blades (Graham Singleton)
9. 07:42 AM - 2nd alternator, IG circuit (josok)
10. 09:47 AM - DOTH Thur.26th Swansea (Paddy Clarke)
11. 10:55 AM - Re: Baby Blue is back! (Michel AUVRAY)
12. 11:17 AM - Re: Baby Blue is back! (Michel AUVRAY)
13. 01:49 PM - Re: A Long Pin (Raimo Toivio)
14. 06:54 PM - Re: Baby Blue is back! (Paul McAllister)
15. 09:53 PM - Re: Monowheel transition (Craig Ellison)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: First engine start |
I think those people (me too!) whose
first flights are near by do have hot,
red and short nerves. That must be
understandable and a part of human nature.
It is a battle and we wanna win.
We defend hard our final solutions and that is a must:
our life and health is hanging from them. We must
trust them. If not - who is the pilot?
It is so stimulating to really realize: I am soon in the air
flying a plane builded my myself and that is a real
world - not a dream or movie.
(6% of the fatal accidents are the first flight accidents, they say)
Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Singleton" <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 3:08 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: First engine start
>
> Jos
> don't be too hard on Gilles, he's a BanBi man I know, but for whatever
> reason chooses to subscribe here and share his experience, which I
> suspect is mor valuable than mine.
> My 2 sentz
> Graham {;-)
>
> I used to have Thunderbird emoticons but they hid themselves, came back
> briefly, then went again. Puzzled
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | AT3000 altitude encoder |
Hi all,
I am looking for the Installation Manual of the TERRA AT3000 altitude encoder.
Does anyone have this doc available?
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 465 hours
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Baby Blue is back! |
Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> kirjoitti Tue, 24 Apr 2007
22:02:17 +0300:
> The problem is, one needs to push, not pull, to open the throttle.
Giles, i give up. Without spring yes, but THERE HAS TO BE A SPRING!
My real worry is not about you. But your ill advice might one day kill
somebody. That worries me.
Looking at the high level of your contributions, usually well documented
and investigated, it is surprising how you manage to produce and defend
your last statements. The rest in PM or email please. End of thread for me.
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
--
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http://www.europaowners.org/kit600
Message 4
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Subject: | Warp Drive propeller blades |
Hi,
I've searched this forum to see if I can find the answer but I can't.
So, can anyone tell me why on the 62" Warp Drive ground adjustable propeller, tapered
blades are recommended for a Rotax 912 and broad blades are recommended
for a 912S and 914?
What is the issue with running a tapered blade on a 912S or a broad blade on a
912?
Yours,
'Newbie to Propeller design'
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Baby Blue is back! |
Jos Okhuijsen a crit :
> But your ill advice might one day kill somebody.
Jos,
The push-pull control cable is not an exotic device from one lister's
troubled mind, bud a widespread and generally trouble free solution
to the throttle actuation problem in an airplane.
Just disagreeing on a point is no problem, whereas affirming a
suggestion is ill and might kill really needs to be supported with hard
facts or proven engineering considerations.
Please don't lose sleep on throttle actuation. The most frequent source
of engine trouble on an experimental is related to fuel supply, not
throttles.
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: First engine start |
Graham Singleton a crit :
>
> don't be too hard on Gilles, he's a BanBi man I know, but for whatever
> reason chooses to subscribe here
Graham,
Thank you for your message.
The Europa and the MCR happen to use the same power plants, and their
performance is in the same ballpark.
I learnt a lot from the contributions of Europa builders on the
installation and operation of their Rotax 91X units, and this somehow
prompted me to investigate into the cooling and electrical redundancy
for the Rotax 914.
I have the feeling that sharing informations on power plant installation
may benefit to every builder with the same type of engine.
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: AT3000 altitude encoder |
Remi,
Yes I have the operator / installation manual.
Please give me your off list e-mail address and I will scan my copy into
WORD and e-mail it to you. It may take a day or so because I am away
until Friday. My e-mail is cjh.richardson@virgin.net
regards
John Richardson
----- Original Message -----
From: R=C3=A9mi Guerner
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 12:30 PM
Subject: Europa-List: AT3000 altitude encoder
Hi all,
I am looking for the Installation Manual of the TERRA AT3000
altitude encoder. Does anyone have this doc available?
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 465 hours
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Warp Drive propeller blades |
Phil
it's the power absorption. The tapered blade matches the power output of
the 912, so allows the engine to develop enough rpm for the power needed
for take oiff and climb..
912S & 914 need more blade area to absorb the power. Tapered blades will
over rev too easily. Tapering a broad blade is maybe the cheap way to do
it, they can use the same mould for either then cut to suit. My guess
anyway.
Graham
flyingphil2 wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I've searched this forum to see if I can find the answer but I can't.
>
> So, can anyone tell me why on the 62" Warp Drive ground adjustable propeller,
tapered blades are recommended for a Rotax 912 and broad blades are recommended
for a 912S and 914?
>
> What is the issue with running a tapered blade on a 912S or a broad blade on
a 912?
>
> Yours,
>
> 'Newbie to Propeller design'
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Graham Singleton
Tel: +441629820187
Mob: +447739582005
Message 9
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Subject: | 2nd alternator, IG circuit |
The second alternator has a built-in regulator, and according to the Rotax installation
manual, can be switched off by switching the IG sense wire open circuit.
Other information points to "always to be connected to the bat+"
The alternator is a Denso 18504-6220, could not find any detail about it on the
net. So the question is: Can the IG connection of a built in regulator be switched?
Could try it of course, but i hate smoke :-)
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 10
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Subject: | DOTH Thur.26th Swansea |
Hi Folks,
How about a DOTH to Swansea tomorrow ( Thursday )?. Hopefully the
cafe will be open this time. 1200ish, voucher in Pilot.
Cheers, Paddy
Paddy Clarke
Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM
Message 11
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Subject: | Baby Blue is back! |
Hi Jos,
During the mod 72 I have some problems with throttle cables. I take a
decision to replace the cable by Stainless steel spring wire diameter 1.5 mm
The curves have big radius and no wire difficluty to slide into her sleeves.
I have now 10 hours without no troubles.
One friend of me use the piano wire since 5 years on the Monowheel with 914
also no problems.
In addition I use graphite grease into the sleeve I introduce the grease
with oil squirt.
Also I note that the carburettors setting is more easy with metallic wires.
Regards
Michel AUVRAY
Builder N145 monowheel 300 hours flight
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Jos
Okhuijsen
Envoy : mardi 24 avril 2007 10:23
: europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : Re: Europa-List: Baby Blue is back!
Hi Gilles,
>> Do you really advise here to get rid of a safety feature?
> Not all aircraft rely on spring tension to open the throttle against the
> friction in the outer case. Some have a push-pull cable and the throttle
> valve will stay where it is, should the control fail.
We are talking about the Rotax engine, and the Europa. In the Rotax
documentation it is quite clear, why the spring is there and that the
spring should be able to pull the cable. Rotax even offers two methods for
improvent if the supplied spring is not strong enough. Removing the spring
is not one of them. If the valve remains shut on final, when you would
like to compensate for a stronger then estimated head wind you will
discover the reason.
> Hundreds of MCRs have been flying for years with a piano wire to replace
> the stranded cable and spring, without any problem whatsoever. The
> linkage is far far safer with a push-pull control than with a flimsy
> stranded cable and puny spring. You can even keep the spring for your
> peace of mind !
A solid wire is per definition more prone to breaking. In a Europa, that
wire has to go around corners, it can not be straight. Therefore, in a
Europa, where this list/forum is about, it will break sooner then a
stranded cable, especially if routed wrong in the first place. If you
think the factory supplied throttle cable is flimsy, i suggest to try to
break it. By hand. I guess you need about 600 kg of pulling force. I
can't take remarks like that very serious. Advising to remove safety
components on the other hand is very serious business.
> natural sweeps instead of turns. The usual place for breaking a cable is
> at a wrongly rigged portion between throttle lever and cable case. So a
> careful design of this portion, and some provision for pivoting is key.
Again, it's all in the manual, this case the Europa Builders Manual. Have
you ever looked at it?
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
--
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http://www.europaowners.org/kit600
Message 12
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Subject: | Baby Blue is back! |
In addition, before you take a decision to use metallic wire in replacement
of cables, check the radius of yours sleeve cables and install the wire and
re-check the good slip capacity.
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Michel
AUVRAY
Envoy : mercredi 25 avril 2007 19:55
: europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : RE: Europa-List: Baby Blue is back!
Hi Jos,
During the mod 72 I have some problems with throttle cables. I take a
decision to replace the cable by Stainless steel spring wire diameter 1.5 mm
The curves have big radius and no wire difficluty to slide into her sleeves.
I have now 10 hours without no troubles.
One friend of me use the piano wire since 5 years on the Monowheel with 914
also no problems.
In addition I use graphite grease into the sleeve I introduce the grease
with oil squirt.
Also I note that the carburettors setting is more easy with metallic wires.
Regards
Michel AUVRAY
Builder N145 monowheel 300 hours flight
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Jos
Okhuijsen
Envoy : mardi 24 avril 2007 10:23
: europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : Re: Europa-List: Baby Blue is back!
Hi Gilles,
>> Do you really advise here to get rid of a safety feature?
> Not all aircraft rely on spring tension to open the throttle against the
> friction in the outer case. Some have a push-pull cable and the throttle
> valve will stay where it is, should the control fail.
We are talking about the Rotax engine, and the Europa. In the Rotax
documentation it is quite clear, why the spring is there and that the
spring should be able to pull the cable. Rotax even offers two methods for
improvent if the supplied spring is not strong enough. Removing the spring
is not one of them. If the valve remains shut on final, when you would
like to compensate for a stronger then estimated head wind you will
discover the reason.
> Hundreds of MCRs have been flying for years with a piano wire to replace
> the stranded cable and spring, without any problem whatsoever. The
> linkage is far far safer with a push-pull control than with a flimsy
> stranded cable and puny spring. You can even keep the spring for your
> peace of mind !
A solid wire is per definition more prone to breaking. In a Europa, that
wire has to go around corners, it can not be straight. Therefore, in a
Europa, where this list/forum is about, it will break sooner then a
stranded cable, especially if routed wrong in the first place. If you
think the factory supplied throttle cable is flimsy, i suggest to try to
break it. By hand. I guess you need about 600 kg of pulling force. I
can't take remarks like that very serious. Advising to remove safety
components on the other hand is very serious business.
> natural sweeps instead of turns. The usual place for breaking a cable is
> at a wrongly rigged portion between throttle lever and cable case. So a
> careful design of this portion, and some provision for pivoting is key.
Again, it's all in the manual, this case the Europa Builders Manual. Have
you ever looked at it?
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
--
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http://www.europaowners.org/kit600
Message 13
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Thanks Ron,
you had some great ideas and one of them was a real succes!
----- Original Message -----
From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: A Long Pin
> Another, I have read about friction grease used for tri nose wheel. Get
> hold of some and pack a little around bearing to hold it in place
I did so and oolalaa my port wings flap pin goes into his bearing happily.
Small thing makes rigging fun, fast and easy - now it is for me possible
to do it from the trailer in 5 minutes as advertised.
I have to point also: my bearings are fully pushed into their housings
and they cannot go any deeper (yes - I have hammered them) and
they are still rotating free 360 degrees. But because of Rons thick
magic grease they are unsensitive enough today (for me at least).
Cheers, Raimo
=========
Raimo M W Toivio
OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417, FCAA permitted for test flights, first flight is scheduled
OH-CVK C172 Skyhawk, reinterioring completed, still behind the Polar Circle
OH-BLL Beechcraft C45, w radial engines, singing this summer?
37500 Lempaala
Finland
tel + 358 3 3753 777
fax + 358 3 3753 100
gsm + 358 40 590 1450
raimo.toivio@rwm.fi
www.rwm.fi
Message 14
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Subject: | Baby Blue is back! |
Jos,
I don't wish for this discussion to degenerate into who is right and who is
wrong, but here is a valid data point.
A few years ago a Europa in the US crashed on while attempting a go around.
What happened is that the pilot set himself up for a landing, didn't like
the picture and decided to go around. In his haste he jammed the throttle
forward, the springs didn't take up the cable slack quickly enough, kinked
and jammed. The aircraft stalled at about 2 meters off the ground, landed
heavily and was destroyed.
It was enough for me to sit up and take notice. From that day on I have
always been gentle on pushing the throttle forward. When it comes time to
replace my throttle cables I intend to use solid cables. This is not an
uncommon practice in the aviation industry.
In terms of forum courtesy, in my reading of Gilles contributions and his
WEB site I find that they are extremely well researched and thought out. I
seem to recall that he is a professional aviator an as such would have
exposure to training and flying time that you and I could only dream about.
I for one consider his contributions always worthy of consideration.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jos
Okhuijsen
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Baby Blue is back!
Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> kirjoitti Tue, 24 Apr 2007
22:02:17 +0300:
> The problem is, one needs to push, not pull, to open the throttle.
Giles, i give up. Without spring yes, but THERE HAS TO BE A SPRING!
My real worry is not about you. But your ill advice might one day kill
somebody. That worries me.
Looking at the high level of your contributions, usually well documented
and investigated, it is surprising how you manage to produce and defend
your last statements. The rest in PM or email please. End of thread for me.
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
--
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http://www.europaowners.org/kit600
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Monowheel transition |
Hi Tom,
I was in the same place a year ago but with much less experience and no
tailwheel time. Peter Timm from Pemberton BC was most helpful giving me
a chance to transition in his airplane with his excellent instruction.
Last I spoke with him his engine was out for annual so I don't know it
he could help right now. You might try giving him a call. Last time I
looked his # was in the Flyer.
If your listening Peter, thanks again for your help and gererosity!
craig ellison
N205CN
76hr
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Friedland
To: Europa Forum
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 1:19 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel transition
Hi Ephiles
Does anyone in the UK know of a monowheel instructor that has a
monowheel availabe to use for transition training?
My mono (XS) is close to flying and I would like to get some left seat
time before going skyward. I have about 3000 hours total time and about
1/2 of that in tailwheels (Aeronca up to Otters) but only a couple hours
in the past year. I would love to go to the UK for however long it
takes this Summer and of course will pay the usual rate.
Any help appreciated.
Tom Friedland, Ellensburg WA USA N96V
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