---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/25/07: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:54 AM - Re: First engine start (Raimo Toivio) 2. 04:35 AM - AT3000 altitude encoder (=?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Guerner?=) 3. 04:51 AM - Re: Baby Blue is back! (Jos Okhuijsen) 4. 04:59 AM - Warp Drive propeller blades (flyingphil2) 5. 05:29 AM - Re: Baby Blue is back! (Gilles Thesee) 6. 05:38 AM - Re: First engine start (Gilles Thesee) 7. 05:55 AM - Re: AT3000 altitude encoder (C Richardson) 8. 06:26 AM - Re: Warp Drive propeller blades (Graham Singleton) 9. 07:42 AM - 2nd alternator, IG circuit (josok) 10. 09:47 AM - DOTH Thur.26th Swansea (Paddy Clarke) 11. 10:55 AM - Re: Baby Blue is back! (Michel AUVRAY) 12. 11:17 AM - Re: Baby Blue is back! (Michel AUVRAY) 13. 01:49 PM - Re: A Long Pin (Raimo Toivio) 14. 06:54 PM - Re: Baby Blue is back! (Paul McAllister) 15. 09:53 PM - Re: Monowheel transition (Craig Ellison) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:54:04 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: First engine start I think those people (me too!) whose first flights are near by do have hot, red and short nerves. That must be understandable and a part of human nature. It is a battle and we wanna win. We defend hard our final solutions and that is a must: our life and health is hanging from them. We must trust them. If not - who is the pilot? It is so stimulating to really realize: I am soon in the air flying a plane builded my myself and that is a real world - not a dream or movie. (6% of the fatal accidents are the first flight accidents, they say) Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Singleton" Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 3:08 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: First engine start > > Jos > don't be too hard on Gilles, he's a BanBi man I know, but for whatever > reason chooses to subscribe here and share his experience, which I > suspect is mor valuable than mine. > My 2 sentz > Graham {;-) > > I used to have Thunderbird emoticons but they hid themselves, came back > briefly, then went again. Puzzled > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:20 AM PST US From: =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Guerner?= Subject: Europa-List: AT3000 altitude encoder Hi all, I am looking for the Installation Manual of the TERRA AT3000 altitude encoder. Does anyone have this doc available? Regards Remi Guerner F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 465 hours ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Baby Blue is back! From: "Jos Okhuijsen" Gilles Thesee kirjoitti Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:02:17 +0300: > The problem is, one needs to push, not pull, to open the throttle. Giles, i give up. Without spring yes, but THERE HAS TO BE A SPRING! My real worry is not about you. But your ill advice might one day kill somebody. That worries me. Looking at the high level of your contributions, usually well documented and investigated, it is surprising how you manage to produce and defend your last statements. The rest in PM or email please. End of thread for me. Regards, Jos Okhuijsen -- workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane http://www.europaowners.org/kit600 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:59 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Warp Drive propeller blades From: "flyingphil2" Hi, I've searched this forum to see if I can find the answer but I can't. So, can anyone tell me why on the 62" Warp Drive ground adjustable propeller, tapered blades are recommended for a Rotax 912 and broad blades are recommended for a 912S and 914? What is the issue with running a tapered blade on a 912S or a broad blade on a 912? Yours, 'Newbie to Propeller design' Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:44 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Baby Blue is back! Jos Okhuijsen a crit : > But your ill advice might one day kill somebody. Jos, The push-pull control cable is not an exotic device from one lister's troubled mind, bud a widespread and generally trouble free solution to the throttle actuation problem in an airplane. Just disagreeing on a point is no problem, whereas affirming a suggestion is ill and might kill really needs to be supported with hard facts or proven engineering considerations. Please don't lose sleep on throttle actuation. The most frequent source of engine trouble on an experimental is related to fuel supply, not throttles. Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:19 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: First engine start Graham Singleton a crit : > > don't be too hard on Gilles, he's a BanBi man I know, but for whatever > reason chooses to subscribe here Graham, Thank you for your message. The Europa and the MCR happen to use the same power plants, and their performance is in the same ballpark. I learnt a lot from the contributions of Europa builders on the installation and operation of their Rotax 91X units, and this somehow prompted me to investigate into the cooling and electrical redundancy for the Rotax 914. I have the feeling that sharing informations on power plant installation may benefit to every builder with the same type of engine. Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:06 AM PST US From: "C Richardson" Subject: Re: Europa-List: AT3000 altitude encoder Remi, Yes I have the operator / installation manual. Please give me your off list e-mail address and I will scan my copy into WORD and e-mail it to you. It may take a day or so because I am away until Friday. My e-mail is cjh.richardson@virgin.net regards John Richardson ----- Original Message ----- From: R=C3=A9mi Guerner To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 12:30 PM Subject: Europa-List: AT3000 altitude encoder Hi all, I am looking for the Installation Manual of the TERRA AT3000 altitude encoder. Does anyone have this doc available? Regards Remi Guerner F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 912S, Airmaster, 465 hours ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:06 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Warp Drive propeller blades Phil it's the power absorption. The tapered blade matches the power output of the 912, so allows the engine to develop enough rpm for the power needed for take oiff and climb.. 912S & 914 need more blade area to absorb the power. Tapered blades will over rev too easily. Tapering a broad blade is maybe the cheap way to do it, they can use the same mould for either then cut to suit. My guess anyway. Graham flyingphil2 wrote: > > Hi, > I've searched this forum to see if I can find the answer but I can't. > > So, can anyone tell me why on the 62" Warp Drive ground adjustable propeller, tapered blades are recommended for a Rotax 912 and broad blades are recommended for a 912S and 914? > > What is the issue with running a tapered blade on a 912S or a broad blade on a 912? > > Yours, > > 'Newbie to Propeller design' > > > > > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > > > > > > > -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: +447739582005 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:46 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: 2nd alternator, IG circuit From: "josok" The second alternator has a built-in regulator, and according to the Rotax installation manual, can be switched off by switching the IG sense wire open circuit. Other information points to "always to be connected to the bat+" The alternator is a Denso 18504-6220, could not find any detail about it on the net. So the question is: Can the IG connection of a built in regulator be switched? Could try it of course, but i hate smoke :-) Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:51 AM PST US From: Paddy Clarke Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Thur.26th Swansea Hi Folks, How about a DOTH to Swansea tomorrow ( Thursday )?. Hopefully the cafe will be open this time. 1200ish, voucher in Pilot. Cheers, Paddy Paddy Clarke Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:46 AM PST US From: "Michel AUVRAY" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Baby Blue is back! Hi Jos, During the mod 72 I have some problems with throttle cables. I take a decision to replace the cable by Stainless steel spring wire diameter 1.5 mm The curves have big radius and no wire difficluty to slide into her sleeves. I have now 10 hours without no troubles. One friend of me use the piano wire since 5 years on the Monowheel with 914 also no problems. In addition I use graphite grease into the sleeve I introduce the grease with oil squirt. Also I note that the carburettors setting is more easy with metallic wires. Regards Michel AUVRAY Builder N145 monowheel 300 hours flight -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Jos Okhuijsen Envoy : mardi 24 avril 2007 10:23 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet : Re: Europa-List: Baby Blue is back! Hi Gilles, >> Do you really advise here to get rid of a safety feature? > Not all aircraft rely on spring tension to open the throttle against the > friction in the outer case. Some have a push-pull cable and the throttle > valve will stay where it is, should the control fail. We are talking about the Rotax engine, and the Europa. In the Rotax documentation it is quite clear, why the spring is there and that the spring should be able to pull the cable. Rotax even offers two methods for improvent if the supplied spring is not strong enough. Removing the spring is not one of them. If the valve remains shut on final, when you would like to compensate for a stronger then estimated head wind you will discover the reason. > Hundreds of MCRs have been flying for years with a piano wire to replace > the stranded cable and spring, without any problem whatsoever. The > linkage is far far safer with a push-pull control than with a flimsy > stranded cable and puny spring. You can even keep the spring for your > peace of mind ! A solid wire is per definition more prone to breaking. In a Europa, that wire has to go around corners, it can not be straight. Therefore, in a Europa, where this list/forum is about, it will break sooner then a stranded cable, especially if routed wrong in the first place. If you think the factory supplied throttle cable is flimsy, i suggest to try to break it. By hand. I guess you need about 600 kg of pulling force. I can't take remarks like that very serious. Advising to remove safety components on the other hand is very serious business. > natural sweeps instead of turns. The usual place for breaking a cable is > at a wrongly rigged portion between throttle lever and cable case. So a > careful design of this portion, and some provision for pivoting is key. Again, it's all in the manual, this case the Europa Builders Manual. Have you ever looked at it? Regards, Jos Okhuijsen -- workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane http://www.europaowners.org/kit600 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:58 AM PST US From: "Michel AUVRAY" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Baby Blue is back! In addition, before you take a decision to use metallic wire in replacement of cables, check the radius of yours sleeve cables and install the wire and re-check the good slip capacity. -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Michel AUVRAY Envoy : mercredi 25 avril 2007 19:55 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet : RE: Europa-List: Baby Blue is back! Hi Jos, During the mod 72 I have some problems with throttle cables. I take a decision to replace the cable by Stainless steel spring wire diameter 1.5 mm The curves have big radius and no wire difficluty to slide into her sleeves. I have now 10 hours without no troubles. One friend of me use the piano wire since 5 years on the Monowheel with 914 also no problems. In addition I use graphite grease into the sleeve I introduce the grease with oil squirt. Also I note that the carburettors setting is more easy with metallic wires. Regards Michel AUVRAY Builder N145 monowheel 300 hours flight -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Jos Okhuijsen Envoy : mardi 24 avril 2007 10:23 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet : Re: Europa-List: Baby Blue is back! Hi Gilles, >> Do you really advise here to get rid of a safety feature? > Not all aircraft rely on spring tension to open the throttle against the > friction in the outer case. Some have a push-pull cable and the throttle > valve will stay where it is, should the control fail. We are talking about the Rotax engine, and the Europa. In the Rotax documentation it is quite clear, why the spring is there and that the spring should be able to pull the cable. Rotax even offers two methods for improvent if the supplied spring is not strong enough. Removing the spring is not one of them. If the valve remains shut on final, when you would like to compensate for a stronger then estimated head wind you will discover the reason. > Hundreds of MCRs have been flying for years with a piano wire to replace > the stranded cable and spring, without any problem whatsoever. The > linkage is far far safer with a push-pull control than with a flimsy > stranded cable and puny spring. You can even keep the spring for your > peace of mind ! A solid wire is per definition more prone to breaking. In a Europa, that wire has to go around corners, it can not be straight. Therefore, in a Europa, where this list/forum is about, it will break sooner then a stranded cable, especially if routed wrong in the first place. If you think the factory supplied throttle cable is flimsy, i suggest to try to break it. By hand. I guess you need about 600 kg of pulling force. I can't take remarks like that very serious. Advising to remove safety components on the other hand is very serious business. > natural sweeps instead of turns. The usual place for breaking a cable is > at a wrongly rigged portion between throttle lever and cable case. So a > careful design of this portion, and some provision for pivoting is key. Again, it's all in the manual, this case the Europa Builders Manual. Have you ever looked at it? Regards, Jos Okhuijsen -- workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane http://www.europaowners.org/kit600 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:49:04 PM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: A Long Pin Thanks Ron, you had some great ideas and one of them was a real succes! ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 1:11 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: A Long Pin > Another, I have read about friction grease used for tri nose wheel. Get > hold of some and pack a little around bearing to hold it in place I did so and oolalaa my port wings flap pin goes into his bearing happily. Small thing makes rigging fun, fast and easy - now it is for me possible to do it from the trailer in 5 minutes as advertised. I have to point also: my bearings are fully pushed into their housings and they cannot go any deeper (yes - I have hammered them) and they are still rotating free 360 degrees. But because of Rons thick magic grease they are unsensitive enough today (for me at least). Cheers, Raimo ========= Raimo M W Toivio OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417, FCAA permitted for test flights, first flight is scheduled OH-CVK C172 Skyhawk, reinterioring completed, still behind the Polar Circle OH-BLL Beechcraft C45, w radial engines, singing this summer? 37500 Lempaala Finland tel + 358 3 3753 777 fax + 358 3 3753 100 gsm + 358 40 590 1450 raimo.toivio@rwm.fi www.rwm.fi ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:04 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Baby Blue is back! Jos, I don't wish for this discussion to degenerate into who is right and who is wrong, but here is a valid data point. A few years ago a Europa in the US crashed on while attempting a go around. What happened is that the pilot set himself up for a landing, didn't like the picture and decided to go around. In his haste he jammed the throttle forward, the springs didn't take up the cable slack quickly enough, kinked and jammed. The aircraft stalled at about 2 meters off the ground, landed heavily and was destroyed. It was enough for me to sit up and take notice. From that day on I have always been gentle on pushing the throttle forward. When it comes time to replace my throttle cables I intend to use solid cables. This is not an uncommon practice in the aviation industry. In terms of forum courtesy, in my reading of Gilles contributions and his WEB site I find that they are extremely well researched and thought out. I seem to recall that he is a professional aviator an as such would have exposure to training and flying time that you and I could only dream about. I for one consider his contributions always worthy of consideration. Paul -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jos Okhuijsen Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 6:50 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Baby Blue is back! Gilles Thesee kirjoitti Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:02:17 +0300: > The problem is, one needs to push, not pull, to open the throttle. Giles, i give up. Without spring yes, but THERE HAS TO BE A SPRING! My real worry is not about you. But your ill advice might one day kill somebody. That worries me. Looking at the high level of your contributions, usually well documented and investigated, it is surprising how you manage to produce and defend your last statements. The rest in PM or email please. End of thread for me. Regards, Jos Okhuijsen -- workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane http://www.europaowners.org/kit600 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:34 PM PST US From: "Craig Ellison" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel transition Hi Tom, I was in the same place a year ago but with much less experience and no tailwheel time. Peter Timm from Pemberton BC was most helpful giving me a chance to transition in his airplane with his excellent instruction. Last I spoke with him his engine was out for annual so I don't know it he could help right now. You might try giving him a call. Last time I looked his # was in the Flyer. If your listening Peter, thanks again for your help and gererosity! craig ellison N205CN 76hr ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Friedland To: Europa Forum Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 1:19 PM Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel transition Hi Ephiles Does anyone in the UK know of a monowheel instructor that has a monowheel availabe to use for transition training? My mono (XS) is close to flying and I would like to get some left seat time before going skyward. I have about 3000 hours total time and about 1/2 of that in tailwheels (Aeronca up to Otters) but only a couple hours in the past year. I would love to go to the UK for however long it takes this Summer and of course will pay the usual rate. Any help appreciated. Tom Friedland, Ellensburg WA USA N96V ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.