---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/02/07: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:38 AM - Re: First Flying Finnish Europa (josok) 2. 02:24 AM - Re: First Flying Finnish Europa (Hans J. Danielsen) 3. 06:02 AM - Re: Re: Seat Backs (Justin Kennedy) 4. 10:28 AM - Re: Re: Seat Backs (Ralph K. Hallett III) 5. 11:56 AM - Re: First Flying Finnish Europa (Raimo Toivio) 6. 12:06 PM - Re: The child is born! (Raimo Toivio) 7. 12:20 PM - Re: Re: Seat Backs (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 8. 02:36 PM - Re: Re: Seat Backs (Paul Stewart) 9. 02:41 PM - Re: The child is born! (Jac van Heeswijk) 10. 03:05 PM - FW: another gas price source (Alan Burrows) 11. 03:27 PM - Re: Re: Seat Backs () 12. 03:27 PM - Re: Re: Seat Backs () 13. 04:50 PM - Re: First Flying Finnish Europa (Laptop JR) 14. 06:36 PM - Seat Thoughts (MJKTuck@cs.com) 15. 06:51 PM - Re: First Flying Finnish Europa (Keith Hickling) 16. 06:58 PM - Steorn Orbo free energy motor planning July public demo in London (glenn crowder) 17. 10:04 PM - Re: Seat Thoughts (Ralph K. Hallett III) 18. 11:53 PM - Re: First Flying Finnish Europa (Keith Hickling) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:38:27 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flying Finnish Europa From: "josok" Hi Raimo, Congrats and happy flying. Remember your project and good advise, when i came to you for information less then 4 years ago and the plane was still in canoe state. Good flying and happy landings! Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:24:03 AM PST US From: "Hans J. Danielsen" Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flying Finnish Europa Hi Raimo. Congratulations!! Must be a very good feeling!!! I'm right behind you - CAA inspection coming up shortly, and then........ About time though - only 9 yrs in the making! We'll meet some day. Hans, #334. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Seat Backs From: "Justin Kennedy" Hi All First of all congratulations to Raimo. Well done. An achievement that only those who have been through it can really appreciate. On the seat back thing. I have a bad back and did a lot trial and error to get the seat back right. At the risk of boring everyone rigid I have a little to add. I agree with all that the slope of the top half has to be continued though I added one or two improvements to this. I took a piece of 1 inch thick upholstery foam The shape of the seat back and then use a piece of high density foam one and a half inches square in section the width of the seat and rolled it into the 1 inch foam from the bottom up and stitched it in place with nylon thread. This made a lumber support on the bottom of the seat back. Wedges of foam were then glued each side to provide the bucket seat type sides and the whole lot covered in leather. The sides of the seat are in contact with the body and help to retain you in the seat and distribute the pressure on your body over a wider area. A leather flap continued over the headrest and down the back where it is attached by large Velcro patches either side of the seat belt anchorage. Velcro is very strong in tear and is easily adjustable. I then attached the seat back by positioning it so that the lumbar support fitted right into the small of my back. This is below the kink in the seat back shape and effectively provides the continuation of the seat slope at the top. An additional patch of Velcro on the front at each side and the job is done. The downside is that this takes a while to do. Something to do with why it took us 11 years to build G--ZTED The benefits, I think, are worth the trouble. When getting into the aircraft everyone puts their backside on the headrest and slides down into the seat. The flap over the back attached by Velcro retains the seat back and because it is leather the slide down into the seat does not ruin or upset the seating. The height of the lumber support is adjustable by means of the Velcro in the unlikely event that you are going to let someone else fly it from the left hand seat. The right hand seat is the same and is frequently adjusted like this to accommodate all shapes and sizes. I have a spare bit of high impact foam to go under the pax seat squab if they are weeny. I have left the area below the lumber supports empty. This allows you to sit up and lean forward a bit more comfortably by sliding your backside right back to the firewall. The gap is only 3 to 4 inches and, although not thought of at the design stage, it allows a little ventilation in this area which is again more comfortable on long trips. G-ZTED is a Europa Classic with a short footwell and this all helps with the leg stretching room. My wife and I have done quite a few 3 hour stints and have felt very comfortable throughout. Reading back through this, it sounds a bit complicated. At the risk of looking silly I will send it anyway. The flying season is here again so I hope to see some of you around and about the UK. Safe flying to all Regards Justin Kennedy G-ZTED Europa Classic Monowheel Rotax 912S Airmaster CP Prop ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:41 AM PST US From: "Ralph K. Hallett III" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Seat Backs Justin, Take it from someone who spends most of their time "lurking quietly" on this list, your input on the seat is well received. Thanks... Ralph Justin Kennedy wrote: > > Hi All > > > > First of all congratulations to Raimo. Well done. An achievement that > only those who have been through it can really appreciate. > > > > On the seat back thing. I have a bad back and did a lot trial and > error to get the seat back right. At the risk of boring everyone rigid > I have a little to add. > > > > I agree with all that the slope of the top half has to be continued > though I added one or two improvements to this. > > I took a piece of 1 inch thick upholstery foam The shape of the seat > back and then use a piece of high density foam one and a half inches > square in section the width of the seat and rolled it into the 1 inch > foam from the bottom up and stitched it in place with nylon thread. > This made a lumber support on the bottom of the seat back. > > Wedges of foam were then glued each side to provide the bucket seat > type sides and the whole lot covered in leather. The sides of the > seat are in contact with the body and help to retain you in the seat > and distribute the pressure on your body over a wider area. > > > > A leather flap continued over the headrest and down the back where it > is attached by large Velcro patches either side of the seat belt > anchorage. Velcro is very strong in tear and is easily adjustable. > > I then attached the seat back by positioning it so that the lumbar > support fitted right into the small of my back. This is below the kink > in the seat back shape and effectively provides the continuation of > the seat slope at the top. An additional patch of Velcro on the front > at each side and the job is done. > > > > The downside is that this takes a while to do. Something to do with > why it took us 11 years to build G--ZTED > > The benefits, I think, are worth the trouble. When getting into the > aircraft everyone puts their backside on the headrest and slides down > into the seat. The flap over the back attached by Velcro retains the > seat back and because it is leather the slide down into the seat does > not ruin or upset the seating. The height of the lumber support is > adjustable by means of the Velcro in the unlikely event that you are > going to let someone else fly it from the left hand seat. The right > hand seat is the same and is frequently adjusted like this to > accommodate all shapes and sizes. I have a spare bit of high impact > foam to go under the pax seat squab if they are weeny. I have left the > area below the lumber supports empty. This allows you to sit up and > lean forward a bit more comfortably by sliding your backside right > back to the firewall. The gap is only 3 to 4 inches and, although not > thought of at the design stage, it allows a little ventilation in this > area which is again more comfortable on long trips. G-ZTED is a Europa > Classic with a short footwell and this all helps with the leg > stretching room. > > > > My wife and I have done quite a few 3 hour stints and have felt very > comfortable throughout. > > > > Reading back through this, it sounds a bit complicated. At the risk of > looking silly I will send it anyway. > > > > The flying season is here again so I hope to see some of you around > and about the UK. > > Safe flying to all > > Regards > > Justin Kennedy > > G-ZTED Europa Classic Monowheel Rotax 912S Airmaster CP Prop > > > > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:56:12 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flying Finnish Europa Thanks Bob and keep on building, the best part of building is near of you. My pedantic counted building hours were only actual mechanic building hours and just in the workshop done by me only. Should be added also hours when thinking, drawing, writing, talking, driving, buying, mailing and searching something. Estimated this means at least double. What about those hundreds of nights when dreaming, worrying or planing or even nightmareing; these nights make it double again, easily in case of me at least. Now we have got about 10.000 hrs. Also, I have not counted those hours which were done by my wife, children or friends who were helping me. Also some experts hours like my painter and a com-man. This means again couple of thousand hours easily. I think if we all are honest it tooks too many hours (if rated only by common and cool sense). Anyway - it tooks months or even years to reach only one mountain top like Everest. This was my mountain (or one of them). Basically building a plane was for me a selftest and a developing process - not a way to flying. Also I wanna point hard - I have learned to know wonderful and talent people all around the world. Without this project no chance to do it. This is an extremely huge value. I have also calculated value of every bit, nut and stick Again all except things like electric, using car, time itself, outcomes from capital etc. I consider if publishing them. First I should be brave enough to tell the horrible truth to my wife... Raimo OH-XRT, test flying ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laptop JR" Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 6:54 PM Subject: (SPAM) Re: Europa-List: First Flying Finnish Europa Congratulations Raimo!b And to your family. By contrast I have done over 4000 build hours and just starting filling the flying surfaces with engine and instrument console etc etc, yet to do. Best wishes Bob Gowing UK Kit 327 in Australia do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raimo Toivio" Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 3:18 PM Subject: Europa-List: First Flying Finnish Europa All Our "Lady Windmaker" Tuuli-Ilmatar Europa XS Monowheel OH-XRT #417 took-off on Sunday 29/4/07 at the Tampere-Pirkkala airport EFTP. Runway 24 in use, wind 14 knots gusting 19 knots from 330 degrees (my first taxi practise was earlier after first run-upp during night and snow storm at -20C so why not first flight with some side wind?). We asked our very good family friend Dirk Oyen from Belgium to check the plane and we made a deal that if he feels comfortable in it he would fly it. So it went and during 17 minutes flight everything was just normal. Landing was really an interesting moment and I wanna state it was so beautiful. We had a good company of some relatives, friends and those people who are Europa-related and had champagn and strawberries etc in a party afterwards. Next day - yesterday - was my turn to get some fast taxi practise. It was practically my first real tailwheel experience and it was exciting. Wind conditions were still bad but I was able to fast taxi at the speed of 40 knots (very near by our Europas rotating speed 45 knots). Even complex things are easy to learn with an excellent teacher! So it went that today it was finally my moment to get airborne. After remarkable short take-off I climbed up to 3000 feet and what a climber it is: I saw 1200 f/m with two of us in it! There was about 5 engine hours completed w/o any worries and so we decided to visit my home near by and show some of its flying characteristics to my Ladies who were watching down there. Here is Dirkss statement of our Europa OH-XRT: "The weather was not particularly good; strong side winds and gusting. Marke (Raimos wife) and I taxied to holding Juliet 06. The plane felt quite normal except for the white leather interior, I felt like sitting in my Europa XS OO-145. Due to the gusting wind, Lady Windmaker was swinging from one outrigger to the other all the time. Back to the apron, Marke got out and now there was no excuse anymore... The ATC wished me good luck (yes, he did, it is on tape!) and the Lady Windmaker took of the sky: she felt happy to climb, cruise, bank and stall and after 17 of flight landed safely back on earth EFTP! Congratulation to RT and his family." Building took 8 years with several long delays (I got married, got childrens and developed my business) Actual building hours were 2576 and half of them during 2006 and this year. Understanding "it will really be completed soon" stimulated me at the final. Classically I did not understood I was in a situation 80 % done 80 % still to do. The best part was doing panel and and installing electrics and some equipments. To see it as painted was also a great moment - thanks to my wifes painting schema and decoration plans. I wanna thank first of all my wife and daughters Arla, Tuuli and Merete, friends and all the Europa community and of course Europa factory and my brave and competent maiden flyer Dirk, famous adventurer from Belgium. I am happy but I wanna also say:I have no special Europa grins at all, this is just a one good part of my wonderful life with my lovely Ladies. Regards, Raimo Raimo M W Toivio 37500 Lempaala Finland tel +358 3 3753 777 fax +358 3 3753 100 gsm + 358 40 590 1450 Cessna C172 OH-CVK, totally restored, coming soon back home from Polar Circle Beechcraft C45 OH-BLL, waiting DC3 -mechanic Europa XS Monowheel OH-XRT #417, test flying ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:34 PM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: The child is born! Jac I share your feelings - be proud but do not explode. Our rate of building has been quite same (#394 vs 417). Congrats! Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: Jac van Heeswijk To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 3:20 PM Subject: Europa-List: The child is born! After eight years of stumbling down and getting up again, hope and despair, many nights of puzzling and as many of working, lying still for weeks and taking up the thread again, it is finally so far. PH-LOB (nr. 394) took to the air on Wednesday 25 April 2007 in the capable hands of it's developer and test-pilot Ivan Shaw. Ivan's comment on the first line of the journal: "All controls and stability good. No wing drop. An excellent flying aircraft." The fun can start now. And I am not just a little proud of that! Jack ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:46 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Seat Backs Justin, No, it's not too lengthy. Sounds like a lot of thought was given to the comfort of both pilot and passenger. Do you happen to have any photos of your design that you might be able to provide? Do Not Archive Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300 Sensenich R64Z N Ground Adjustable Prop ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:36:09 PM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Seat Backs Justin Thanks for your addition to the thread. As with Mike, if you had a photo I'd be very keen to see. Regards Paul G-GIDY ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:41:27 PM PST US From: "Jac van Heeswijk" Subject: RE: Europa-List: The child is born! Thank you Raimo and of course also my congratulations to you. Sorry for being so late with that. As a matter of fact we are three 8-year builders with a maiden flight within one week. Together with me Ivan also made a first flight with Klaas de Geus' monowheel XS PH-GES on the same day. His builder's number was 391. A good chance that the three of us will meet sometime in future. Must be a nice picture: Two mono's with one tri in between. OH-XRT --- PH-LOB --- PH-GES. Enjoy flying your pride and joy after all these years! Hals- und Beinbruch, Jack _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio Sent: woensdag 2 mei 2007 21:09 Subject: Re: Europa-List: The child is born! Jac I share your feelings - be proud but do not explode. Our rate of building has been quite same (#394 vs 417). Congrats! Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: Jac van Heeswijk Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 3:20 PM Subject: Europa-List: The child is born! After eight years of stumbling down and getting up again, hope and despair, many nights of puzzling and as many of working, lying still for weeks and taking up the thread again, it is finally so far. PH-LOB (nr. 394) took to the air on Wednesday 25 April 2007 in the capable hands of it's developer and test-pilot Ivan Shaw. Ivan's comment on the first line of the journal: "All controls and stability good. No wing drop. An excellent flying aircraft." The fun can start now. And I am not just a little proud of that! Jack ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:09 PM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: Europa-List: FW: another gas price source This is for our American friends (who I have joined for the winter months). It came to me from a good friend in the USA and I thought I would share it. Eat your heart out the rest of you :-) (smiles). As we in the U.K. presently pay around $9 per gallon. I know most of us use regular auto gas, but it may be worth having the information anyway. Cheers Alan I've been using HYPERLINK "http://www.airnav.com"www.airnav.com and came across this other gas price checker. I don't know if it it any more current than airnav. It was advertised on xm weather website. HYPERLINK "http://www.100ll.com"www.100ll.com 14:16 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:27:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Seat Backs From: Here's our solution for lumbar seat inserts that follow CPM slope. We made them out of foam and balsa. The Factory rear seat cushion needed to be raised 1" so the Velcro on it was aligned with the headrest, so we incorporated a 1" piece of foam with the insert. We cut the insert by marking the foam and using Rapid Epoxy to stick on a piece of 1"x2" as a guide for the saw. A Carpenter's wood saw works, but we liked better using a power hacksaw blade laying around. No matter have one person on each side, sawing goes fast. We have another concern, that is when air-brake cables get installed, the insert needs to accommodate. We put 1/4" balsa on the front of the insert which will allow us to cut foam for air-brake cables, and the 1/4" balsa has enough strength on its own to keep the insert together. The rest of the Balsa is 1/8". The large part of the insert is made from Aircraft Spruce Polystyrene Large Cell Foam, the 1" bottom laminate is Styrofoam Small Cell. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:27:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Seat Backs From: Here's our solution for lumbar seat inserts that follow CPM slope. We made them out of foam and balsa. The Factory rear seat cushion needed to be raised 1" so the Velcro on it was aligned with the headrest, so we incorporated a 1" piece of foam with the insert. We cut the insert by marking the foam and using Rapid Epoxy to stick on a piece of 1"x2" as a guide for the saw. A Carpenter's wood saw works, but we liked better using a power hacksaw blade laying around. No matter have one person on each side, sawing goes fast. We have another concern, that is when air-brake cables get installed, the insert needs to accommodate. We put 1/4" balsa on the front of the insert which will allow us to cut foam for air-brake cables, and the 1/4" balsa has enough strength on its own to keep the insert together. The rest of the Balsa is 1/8". The large part of the insert is made from Aircraft Spruce Polystyrene Large Cell Foam, the 1" bottom laminate is Styrofoam Small Cell. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:21 PM PST US From: "Laptop JR" Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flying Finnish Europa Dear Raimo YOU HAVE EXPOSED THE NAKED TRUTH! Thank you for those thoughts. JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raimo Toivio" Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 11:57 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flying Finnish Europa > > Thanks Bob > > and keep on building, the best part of > building is near of you. > > My pedantic counted building hours > were only actual mechanic building hours > and just in the workshop done by me only. > > Should be added also hours when > thinking, drawing, writing, talking, driving, > buying, mailing and searching something. > Estimated this means at least double. > > What about those hundreds of nights when > dreaming, worrying or planing or even nightmareing; > these nights make it double again, easily in case of me at least. > > Now we have got about 10.000 hrs. > > Also, I have not counted those hours which were done > by my wife, children or friends who were helping me. > Also some experts hours like my painter and a com-man. > This means again couple of thousand hours easily. > > I think if we all are honest it tooks too many hours > (if rated only by common and cool sense). > > Anyway - it tooks months or even years to reach only one > mountain top like Everest. This was my mountain > (or one of them). Basically building a plane was for me > a selftest and a developing process - not a way to flying. > > Also I wanna point hard - I have learned to know wonderful > and talent people all around the world. Without this project > no chance to do it. This is an extremely huge value. > > I have also calculated value of every bit, nut and stick > Again all except things like electric, using car, time itself, > outcomes from capital etc. I consider if publishing them. > First I should be brave enough to tell the horrible truth to my wife... > > Raimo > OH-XRT, test flying > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Laptop JR" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 6:54 PM > Subject: (SPAM) Re: Europa-List: First Flying Finnish Europa > > > > Congratulations Raimo!b > And to your family. > > By contrast I have done over 4000 build hours and just starting filling > the > flying surfaces with engine and instrument console etc etc, yet to do. > > Best wishes > Bob Gowing UK Kit 327 in Australia > do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raimo Toivio" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 3:18 PM > Subject: Europa-List: First Flying Finnish Europa > > > All > > Our "Lady Windmaker" Tuuli-Ilmatar Europa XS Monowheel > OH-XRT #417 took-off on Sunday 29/4/07 at the Tampere-Pirkkala > airport EFTP. Runway 24 in use, wind 14 knots gusting 19 knots from > 330 degrees (my first taxi practise was earlier after first run-upp during > night and snow storm at -20C so why not first flight with some side > wind?). > > We asked our very good family friend Dirk Oyen from Belgium > to check the plane and we made a deal that if he feels comfortable in > it he would fly it. So it went and during 17 minutes flight everything > was just normal. Landing was really an interesting moment and I > wanna state it was so beautiful. > > We had a good company of some relatives, friends and those people > who are Europa-related and had champagn and strawberries etc > in a party afterwards. > > Next day - yesterday - was my turn to get some fast taxi practise. > It was practically my first real tailwheel experience and it was exciting. > Wind conditions were still bad but I was able to fast taxi at the speed > of 40 knots (very near by our Europas rotating speed 45 knots). > Even complex things are easy to learn with an excellent teacher! > > So it went that today it was finally my moment to get airborne. > After remarkable short take-off I climbed up to 3000 feet and what > a climber it is: I saw 1200 f/m with two of us in it! There was about > 5 engine hours completed w/o any worries and so we decided to visit > my home near by and show some of its flying characteristics to my > Ladies who were watching down there. > > Here is Dirkss statement of our Europa OH-XRT: > > "The weather was not particularly good; strong side winds and gusting. > Marke (Raimos wife) and I taxied to holding Juliet 06. The plane felt > quite normal except for the white leather interior, I felt like sitting in > my Europa XS OO-145. Due to the gusting wind, Lady Windmaker was > swinging from one outrigger to the other all the time. Back to the apron, > Marke got out and now there was no excuse anymore... > The ATC wished me good luck (yes, he did, it is on tape!) and the Lady > Windmaker took of the sky: she felt happy to climb, cruise, bank and stall > and after 17 of flight landed safely back on earth EFTP! Congratulation > to > RT and his family." > > Building took 8 years with several long delays (I got married, got > childrens > and developed my business) Actual building hours were 2576 and half of > them during 2006 and this year. Understanding "it will really be completed > soon" stimulated me at the final. Classically I did not understood I was > in > a situation 80 % done 80 % still to do. The best part was doing panel and > and installing electrics and some equipments. To see it as painted was > also > a great moment - thanks to my wifes painting schema and decoration plans. > > I wanna thank first of all my wife and daughters Arla, Tuuli and Merete, > friends and all the Europa community and of course Europa factory > and my brave and competent maiden flyer Dirk, famous adventurer > from Belgium. > > I am happy but I wanna also say:I have no special Europa grins at all, > this is just a one good part of my wonderful life with my lovely Ladies. > > Regards, Raimo > Raimo M W Toivio > 37500 Lempaala > Finland > > tel +358 3 3753 777 > fax +358 3 3753 100 > gsm + 358 40 590 1450 > > Cessna C172 OH-CVK, totally restored, coming soon back home from Polar > Circle > Beechcraft C45 OH-BLL, waiting DC3 -mechanic > Europa XS Monowheel OH-XRT #417, test flying > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:47 PM PST US From: MJKTuck@cs.com Subject: Europa-List: Seat Thoughts Hi Folks, My own experience of my seats is that when in the seated position for an hour or so there is a definite pressure point right on my butt cheeks mainly I think because my foam seat isn't quite thick enough or is too soft. I end up feeling the flat floor of the glassed foam inserts covering the pushrod tunnel. I want to do it again as part of a refurb and think the best thing to use is to determine what shape I would need for total (wrap-around) support. Isn't there some way of sitting on a bag of polystyrene beads and then sucking all the air out? I believe race car drivers custom fit their seats somehow this way. Anyone know of a kit or something? Once you have the basic shape you could get a better idea of what the final shape ought to be. My guess is that given the posture you end up with in a Europa there would be a lot more foam in the lumbar area (and below) as well as under the legs. My 2c worth. Regards, Martin Tuck Europa N152MT Wichita, Kansas ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:47 PM PST US From: Keith Hickling Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flying Finnish Europa Dear Alexander, Sorry for the delay in replying to your earlier email. I will attach the four programmes combined as a microsoft word file - hopefully that should be OK. Let me know if you still don't receive it. The general principles of the algorithms are described in my 2001 AJRCCM paper, which you have. Let me know if you need any clarifications. Kind regards, Keith Hickling. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laptop JR" Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 3:55 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flying Finnish Europa > > Dear Raimo > > YOU HAVE EXPOSED THE NAKED TRUTH! > > Thank you for those thoughts. > > JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz > > do not archive > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raimo Toivio" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 11:57 AM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flying Finnish Europa > > >> >> Thanks Bob >> >> and keep on building, the best part of >> building is near of you. >> >> My pedantic counted building hours >> were only actual mechanic building hours >> and just in the workshop done by me only. >> >> Should be added also hours when >> thinking, drawing, writing, talking, driving, >> buying, mailing and searching something. >> Estimated this means at least double. >> >> What about those hundreds of nights when >> dreaming, worrying or planing or even nightmareing; >> these nights make it double again, easily in case of me at least. >> >> Now we have got about 10.000 hrs. >> >> Also, I have not counted those hours which were done >> by my wife, children or friends who were helping me. >> Also some experts hours like my painter and a com-man. >> This means again couple of thousand hours easily. >> >> I think if we all are honest it tooks too many hours >> (if rated only by common and cool sense). >> >> Anyway - it tooks months or even years to reach only one >> mountain top like Everest. This was my mountain >> (or one of them). Basically building a plane was for me >> a selftest and a developing process - not a way to flying. >> >> Also I wanna point hard - I have learned to know wonderful >> and talent people all around the world. Without this project >> no chance to do it. This is an extremely huge value. >> >> I have also calculated value of every bit, nut and stick >> Again all except things like electric, using car, time itself, >> outcomes from capital etc. I consider if publishing them. >> First I should be brave enough to tell the horrible truth to my wife... >> >> Raimo >> OH-XRT, test flying >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Laptop JR" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 6:54 PM >> Subject: (SPAM) Re: Europa-List: First Flying Finnish Europa >> >> >> >> Congratulations Raimo!b >> And to your family. >> >> By contrast I have done over 4000 build hours and just starting filling >> the >> flying surfaces with engine and instrument console etc etc, yet to do. >> >> Best wishes >> Bob Gowing UK Kit 327 in Australia >> do not archive >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Raimo Toivio" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 3:18 PM >> Subject: Europa-List: First Flying Finnish Europa >> >> >> All >> >> Our "Lady Windmaker" Tuuli-Ilmatar Europa XS Monowheel >> OH-XRT #417 took-off on Sunday 29/4/07 at the Tampere-Pirkkala >> airport EFTP. Runway 24 in use, wind 14 knots gusting 19 knots from >> 330 degrees (my first taxi practise was earlier after first run-upp >> during >> night and snow storm at -20C so why not first flight with some side >> wind?). >> >> We asked our very good family friend Dirk Oyen from Belgium >> to check the plane and we made a deal that if he feels comfortable in >> it he would fly it. So it went and during 17 minutes flight everything >> was just normal. Landing was really an interesting moment and I >> wanna state it was so beautiful. >> >> We had a good company of some relatives, friends and those people >> who are Europa-related and had champagn and strawberries etc >> in a party afterwards. >> >> Next day - yesterday - was my turn to get some fast taxi practise. >> It was practically my first real tailwheel experience and it was >> exciting. >> Wind conditions were still bad but I was able to fast taxi at the speed >> of 40 knots (very near by our Europas rotating speed 45 knots). >> Even complex things are easy to learn with an excellent teacher! >> >> So it went that today it was finally my moment to get airborne. >> After remarkable short take-off I climbed up to 3000 feet and what >> a climber it is: I saw 1200 f/m with two of us in it! There was about >> 5 engine hours completed w/o any worries and so we decided to visit >> my home near by and show some of its flying characteristics to my >> Ladies who were watching down there. >> >> Here is Dirkss statement of our Europa OH-XRT: >> >> "The weather was not particularly good; strong side winds and gusting. >> Marke (Raimos wife) and I taxied to holding Juliet 06. The plane felt >> quite normal except for the white leather interior, I felt like sitting >> in >> my Europa XS OO-145. Due to the gusting wind, Lady Windmaker was >> swinging from one outrigger to the other all the time. Back to the apron, >> Marke got out and now there was no excuse anymore... >> The ATC wished me good luck (yes, he did, it is on tape!) and the Lady >> Windmaker took of the sky: she felt happy to climb, cruise, bank and >> stall >> and after 17 of flight landed safely back on earth EFTP! Congratulation >> to >> RT and his family." >> >> Building took 8 years with several long delays (I got married, got >> childrens >> and developed my business) Actual building hours were 2576 and half of >> them during 2006 and this year. Understanding "it will really be >> completed >> soon" stimulated me at the final. Classically I did not understood I was >> in >> a situation 80 % done 80 % still to do. The best part was doing panel and >> and installing electrics and some equipments. To see it as painted was >> also >> a great moment - thanks to my wifes painting schema and decoration >> plans. >> >> I wanna thank first of all my wife and daughters Arla, Tuuli and Merete, >> friends and all the Europa community and of course Europa factory >> and my brave and competent maiden flyer Dirk, famous adventurer >> from Belgium. >> >> I am happy but I wanna also say:I have no special Europa grins at all, >> this is just a one good part of my wonderful life with my lovely Ladies. >> >> Regards, Raimo >> Raimo M W Toivio >> 37500 Lempaala >> Finland >> >> tel +358 3 3753 777 >> fax +358 3 3753 100 >> gsm + 358 40 590 1450 >> >> Cessna C172 OH-CVK, totally restored, coming soon back home from Polar >> Circle >> Beechcraft C45 OH-BLL, waiting DC3 -mechanic >> Europa XS Monowheel OH-XRT #417, test flying >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:44 PM PST US From: glenn crowder Subject: Europa-List: Steorn Orbo free energy motor planning July public demo in London An Irish credit card security company Steorn Ltd has planned a July public demo in London of their controversial "Orbo" free energy motor. Their first produc t is rumored to be a water pump to be used in the third world. This device is c laimed to require no energy input or fuel, be linearly scaleable and produce in the a rea of .5 watt/cc. If one does the math, this translates to 19 hp/cu ft. A version of 5 cu ft would be roughly 95 hp. Might be a nice change from $9/gal dynosaur droppin gs! http://www.steorn.com/orbo/ Steorn has their own on site forum where believers and bashers can all co ntribute! Join the fun! http://www.steorn.com/forum/ Glenn _________________________________________________________________ Discover the new Windows Vista E ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:03 PM PST US From: "Ralph K. Hallett III" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Seat Thoughts Martin, I made a seat for a f.ford years ago by sitting on a garbage bag with two part foam mix in it. The trick is to be in the position you want to be in as the mix makes the seat around you. After making the mold, I glassed it to make a neater package. Interesting project. :) Ralph MJKTuck@cs.com wrote: > Hi Folks, > > My own experience of my seats is that when in the seated position for > an hour or so there is a definite pressure point right on my butt > cheeks mainly I think because my foam seat isn't quite thick enough or > is too soft. I end up feeling the flat floor of the glassed foam > inserts covering the pushrod tunnel. > > I want to do it again as part of a refurb and think the best thing to > use is to determine what shape I would need for total (wrap-around) > support. Isn't there some way of sitting on a bag of polystyrene beads > and then sucking all the air out? I believe race car drivers custom > fit their seats somehow this way. Anyone know of a kit or something? > > Once you have the basic shape you could get a better idea of what the > final shape ought to be. My guess is that given the posture you end up > with in a Europa there would be a lot more foam in the lumbar area > (and below) as well as under the legs. > > My 2c worth. > > Regards, > Martin Tuck > Europa N152MT > Wichita, Kansas > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:16 PM PST US From: Keith Hickling Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flying Finnish Europa Apologies all, I must have hit reply on the wrong message - please ignore my last email to the list with this subject line. Keith Hickling. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.