Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:05 AM - Re: Tire change (Carl Pattinson)
2. 05:09 AM - Re: seals (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
3. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: seals (Fred Klein)
4. 09:09 AM - 16.5 mm Reamer (Brad Shafer)
5. 09:12 AM - Europa handling characteristics vs Tomahawk and Piper Warriar (gregoryf.flyboy)
6. 09:43 AM - Re: 16.5 mm Reamer (glenn crowder)
7. 09:57 AM - Re: TCU/Dongle (Mike Parkin)
8. 10:10 AM - Re: Europa handling characteristics vs Tomahawk and Piper Warriar (Peter Jeffers)
9. 10:13 AM - Re: Europa handling characteristics vs Tomahawk and Piper Warriar (William Harrison)
10. 10:16 AM - Re: TCU/Dongle (Rob Housman)
11. 10:29 AM - Re: Europa handling characteristics vs Tomahawk and Piper Warriar (Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com)
12. 10:29 AM - Re: TCU/Dongle (Gilles Thesee)
13. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: seals (Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com)
14. 10:38 AM - Re: Tire change (Paul Boulet)
15. 11:18 AM - Re: TCU/Dongle (Jos Okhuijsen)
16. 01:17 PM - Re: TCU/Dongle (Mike Parkin)
17. 01:42 PM - Re: TCU/Dongle (Rob Housman)
18. 02:29 PM - Re: TCU/Dongle (Jos Okhuijsen)
19. 02:51 PM - Re: Europa handling characteristics vs Tomahawk and Piper Warriar (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
20. 04:38 PM - Votex Generators (D.Hetrick)
Message 1
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I have used "slime" (green stuff) in the wheeles of my car for the last
couple of years and it has saved repairs on about 3 or 4 punctures. When
the wheels were last replaced I think about three had been dosed with
the stuff and the tyre mechanics didnt say a thing.
The manufacturer says you shouldnt exceed 60mph with the stuff but I
think they are simply covering their backsides. I have only had one
puncture unseal itself and it reverted to a slow puncture which was in
no way dangerous. It resealed itself (see below)
Its brilliant stuff and usually plugs a hole straight away. One tyre
didnt seal straight away and I simply left the car parked with the hole
pointing at the ground and the next day it was fixed - probably drove
another 5000 miles on that tyre.
If you overdo the application it can throw the wheel out of balance
though this wouldnt be an issue with an Europa.
Have a couple of cans of the stuff in the gagage and was meaning to use
some on the Europa but havent got round to it. You can buy it in tubed
or tubeless variety. The tubeless has loads of ground up rubber bits in
it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Duncan & Ami McFadyean
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tire change
I can confirm that those kits are still available, although of course
they are only for tubeless tyres.
I thought that plugging was illegal for UK road-use!
Duncan Mcf.
----- Original Message -----
From: William Harrison
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tire change
It is brilliant stuff, BUT, can I sound a note of caution from
personal experience?
A tin of it once got me almost home after a blow out on a motorbike.
100 miles later (1 mile from home...) it went again and refused to
respond to a second dose. When examined later, a 3 inch split was found
in the inner tube (caused by incorrect fitting - it had been put in with
a crease which had caused the rubber either side to abrade). The magic
aerosol held it together - amazingly - and I might have trusted it as a
permanent repair if it hadn't gone again. That's the problem: the stuff
is so good that it may, under some circumstances, be able to mask a
seriously faulty tyre.
I always carry some when touring in the car/bike/plane, (have never
needed it since though), but would always want to have a proper repair
ASAP after getting home.
Incidentally, BMW used to supply a tyre plugging kit in motorcycle
tool kits for the user to repair a puncture at the roadside without
needing to remove the tyre. They have stopped now due to fears of
product liability, I believe, although you can still get the kits. They
rely on a crochet hook type tool to instal the plug and have a cylinder
of compressed gas to reinflate the tyre.
Willie Harrison - G-BZNY
On 8 May 2007, at 11:30, Raimo Toivio wrote:
I have thought it is not only to get home
- repair should be permanent until a next
puncture happens. In my case my tyre has
been OK after aerosol, so far. And if not,
inner tyres are not expensive.
Att least I have in my mono an inner tyre...
Regards, Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Parkin
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tire change
While they work admirably, the tyre inflating aerosols have one
major drawback - if the experience with my Peugeot 206 is anything to go
by.
The 206 does not come with a spare tyre, so I used the supplied
aerosol to get me home. It worked brilliantly, but when I took the
offending item to the tyre place to have it repaired, I was told that
after using the aerosol it was impossible to repair. I had to buy a new
tyre.
Expensive puncture.
regards,
Mike
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Gert Dalgaard
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tire change
- I carry one in my AC.... could help me get home to tea one
day.
/Gert
OY-GDS/mono/914
Den 07/05/2007 kl. 12.22 skrev Graham:
----- Original Message -----
From: William Harrison
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tire change
How does anyone rate tyre inflation/sealing aerosols for
emergency get-you-home application?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
- The Europa-List Email Forum class="Apple-converted-space"> -->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List - NEW
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space"> -->
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 2
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In a message dated 5/9/2007 2:59:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
europa-list@matronics.com writes:
My understanding is that preventing the air going over the flap, in
cruise, reduces drag, resulting in higher cruise speed, which I have
experienced. I don't have the engineering background to completely
understand what is happening to the wing, in flight. That's why I
depend on the guys on the list to keep me straight. I'm more of a "try
it and see" kinda guy... :) John's advice is based on the success that
the glider guys have had, sealing the gaps. It seems to have worked on
Baby Blue, as well. Continued testing will tell to what degree of
advantage the seals make. It may very well prove that the extra few
knots is not worth the float upon landing. I won't know until I satisfy
myself that I've explored all the angles (and strip widths)... ;)
Hey Jeff, et al,
The concept behind seals is pretty simple. In flight the wing creates a low
pressure area on the top and high pressure on the bottom. (Bernoulli at it
again) This pressure differential will try to equalize through the gap in the
flap area and the hinge line of the ailerons. This is also true to some extent
on the rudder hinge line and the trim tabs when they are deflected. This
equalization causes drag, a lot of drag. So, the idea behind seals, both flap
gap and positive seals on ailerons (and rudder and trim tabs), is to prevent
this pressure equalization.
On N245E I used PVC weather-strip to create the flap gap seal. The size will
depend on how big your gap is between the leading edge of the flap and the
flap closeout when retracted. Choose a foam that is slightly thicker than the
widest spot in the gap you have. The XS flap closeout looks as if it were
designed to be sealed, given the flat area at the bottom rear of the closeout.
If you apply the foam strip to the area where the flap "noses" into the
closeout when up it will seal this area for cruise flight, but still allow air
to
flow over the flap when extended. Use a foam that crushes easily when the flap
comes in contact with it. You don't want to use a foam that is too stiff or
too thick or else your flaps won't fully retract. PVC weather-strip is soft
and pliable and works quite well. It is also fairly UV resistant and is very
cheap. It's available at any hardware store in various thicknesses. We've
found that open cell foams tend to not last very long due to UV and they don't
seal as well as closed cell foams like PVC. I also used weather-strip on the
ends of my flaps so that they seal against the side of the fuselage when they
are in the up position. According to Bruce Carmichael, renowned Aerodynamicist
who wrote a book on drag reduction in homebuilts, the wing root/fuselage
junction is another area of high drag on most airplanes. Sealing it up helps,
too.
Aileron seals are a bit more tricky to employ. Some folks apply Mylar strips
over the hinge lines and think they've sealed their ailerons. This is not
true. Mylar is not a seal, but rather is applied to help the boundary flow stay
attached over the hinge line. Mylar is also somewhat cosmetic in that it
hides the hinge line. At high speeds the Mylar will lift up off the wing due to
the pressure equalization, thus negating the effects of any sealing the Mylar
might be offering. In some cases the Mylar will "buzz" at high speeds.
For sealing ailerons you need to install what are known as positive seals.
These seals go from the leading edge of the aileron to the rear of the
closeout. There are commercially available materials for this, including various
types of cloth and Teflon tapes. Some folks even use cloth tape along the length
of the aileron on the undersurface. This is fine on low speed gliders, but I
think at the speeds we fly this method likely creates more drag. Personally,
I like parachute cloth for making positive seals. Whatever you use it needs
to be zero porosity, i.e., allowing no airflow through the material.
Parachute cloth is thin, flexible, zero porosity and fits the bill here perfectly.
Here at the 'Possum Werks we use Parachute cloth almost exclusively to
fabricate positive seals. (it also helps that we have a parachute manufacturer
a few
miles down the road that gives us their scraps)
First remove the aileron. Then, cut a strip of parachute cloth about 3" wide
exactly the length of the aileron. The width you use might take some trial
and error to get it right. You don't want it so wide the the material bunches
up when the aileron is deflected. 2.5' to 3" width should work on most
Europas. Then, yellow contact cement is applied to the leading edge of the aileron,
the rear of the closeout and the mating surfaces of the cloth. We use a
brand of glue called Plio-bond. It's handy in that it comes in a small bottle
with a brush applicator. 3M also makes good contact cement if you can find it.
Avoid the water based stuff. It is crap.
Scuff the area to be glued with 180 to enhance the adhesion. Apply the glue
in a swath about 3/8" wide to both the seal, the aileron and closeout. Use
masking tape to keep your glue line to the prescribed width and remove the tape
once the glue is dry. You can also use the masking tape to provide a guide
when you scuff the area to be glued, but wipe it with acetone to remove dust
before putting the glue on. Allow the glue to dry, usually about 20 minutes,
remove the masking tape, then stick the seal to the leading edge of the
aileron first, preferably while on your work bench. If you screw something up
Xylene will remove the glue easily without harming your paint. The next part
takes an extra set of hands.
With one person holding the aileron close to the wing, attach the other half
of the cloth to the closeout forming an "S" pattern. Avoid wrinkles. See
this drawing for details: _http://wingsandwheels.com/page28.htm_
(http://wingsandwheels.com/page28.htm)
Then, reattach the aileron as you would normally do. Check the throw and
make sure you are not binding! If you apply the seal correctly you will not even
know it is there. I have also sealed my rudder in a similar fashion as well
as the trim tabs. They create similar drag when deflected.
I can't say specifically what improvements have occurred in N245E as a
result of the seals since I've not ever flown it without them. I can tell you
that
I exceed Europas published numbers with a fixed pitch prop. I can also tell
you that on gliders we generally see 2 to 4 points increase in glide and a
noticeable decrease in sink rate, even on the old "woodies", after the
application of seals. In power planes this translates to faster cruise, better
climb
rates and better fuel economy.
Anyway, hope it helps!
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN (TN89)
N245E - Flying
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 3
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John,
Thanks for the comprehensive "treatise" (and I use the word with utmost
respect) on this fascinating subject.
Fred
do not archive
On Wednesday, May 9, 2007, at 05:08 AM, TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 5/9/2007 2:59:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> europa-list@matronics.com writes:
>
> My understanding is that preventing the air going over the flap, in
> cruise, reduces drag, resulting in higher cruise speed, which I have
> experienced.- I don't have the engineering background to completely
> understand what is happening to the wing, in flight.- That's why I
> depend on the guys on the list to keep me straight.- I'm more of a
"try
> it and see" kinda guy... :)- John's advice is based on the success
that
> the glider guys have had, sealing the gaps.- It seems to have worked
on
> Baby Blue, as well.- Continued testing will tell to what degree of
> advantage the seals make.- It may very well prove that the extra few
> knots is not worth the float upon landing.- I won't know until I
> satisfy
> myself that I've explored all the angles (and strip widths)... ;)
>
> -
> Hey Jeff, et al,
> -
> The concept behind seals is pretty simple. In flight the wing creates
> a low pressure area on the top and high pressure on the
> bottom.-(Bernoulli at it again)-This pressure differential will
try to
> equalize through the gap in the flap area and the hinge line of the
> ailerons. This is also true to some extent on the rudder hinge line
> and the-trim tabs when they are deflected.-This equalization
causes
> drag, a lot of drag. So, the idea behind seals, both flap gap and
> positive seals on ailerons (and rudder and trim tabs), is to prevent
> this pressure equalization.
> -
> On N245E I used PVC weather-strip to create the flap gap seal. The
> size will depend on how big your gap is between the leading edge of
> the flap and the flap closeout when retracted. Choose a foam that is
> slightly thicker than the widest spot in the gap you have. The XS flap
> closeout looks as if it were designed to be sealed, given the flat
> area at the bottom rear-of the closeout. If you apply the foam strip
> to the area where the flap "noses" into the closeout when up it will
> seal this area for cruise flight, but still allow air to flow over the
> flap when extended. Use a foam that crushes easily when the flap comes
> in contact with it. You-don't want to use a foam that is too stiff
or
> too thick or-else your flaps won't fully-retract. PVC
weather-strip
> is-soft and pliable and works quite well. It is also fairly UV
> resistant and is very cheap. It's available at any hardware store in
> various thicknesses. We've found that open cell foams tend to not last
> very long due to UV-and they don't seal as well as closed cell-foams
> like PVC.-I also used weather-strip on the ends of my flaps so that
> they seal against the side of the fuselage when they are in the up
> position. According to Bruce Carmichael, renowned Aerodynamicist who
> wrote a book on drag reduction in homebuilts, the wing root/fuselage
> junction is another area of high drag on most airplanes. Sealing it up
> helps, too.
> -
> Aileron seals are a bit more tricky to employ. Some folks apply Mylar
> strips over the hinge lines and think they've sealed their ailerons.
> This is not true. Mylar is not a seal, but rather is applied-to help
> the boundary flow stay attached over the hinge line.-Mylar is also
> somewhat cosmetic in that-it hides the hinge line. At high speeds
the
> Mylar will lift up off the wing due to the pressure equalization, thus
> negating the effects of any sealing the Mylar might be offering. In
> some cases the Mylar will "buzz" at high speeds.
> -
> For sealing ailerons you need to install what are known as positive
> seals. These seals go from the leading edge of the aileron to the rear
> of the closeout. There are commercially available materials for this,
> including various types of cloth and Teflon tapes. Some folks even
> use-cloth-tape along the length of the aileron on the
undersurface.
> This is fine on low speed gliders, but I think at the speeds we fly
> this method-likely creates more drag.-Personally, I like parachute
> cloth for making positive seals. Whatever you use it needs to be zero
> porosity, i.e., allowing no airflow through the material. Parachute
> cloth is thin, flexible, zero porosity and-fits the bill here
> perfectly. Here at the 'Possum Werks we use Parachute cloth almost
> exclusively to fabricate positive seals. (it also helps that we have a
> parachute manufacturer a few miles down the road that gives us their
> scraps)
> -
> First remove the aileron. Then, cut a strip of parachute cloth about
> 3" wide exactly the length of the aileron. The width you use might
> take some trial and error to get it right.-You don't want it so wide
> the-the material-bunches up when the aileron is-deflected. 2.5'
to
> 3"-width should work on most Europas. Then, yellow contact cement is
> applied to the leading edge of the aileron, the rear of the closeout
> and the mating surfaces of the cloth. We use a brand of glue-called
> Plio-bond. It's handy in that it comes in a small bottle with a brush
> applicator.-3M also makes-good contact-cement if you can find
it.
> Avoid the water based stuff. It is crap.
> -
> Scuff the area to be glued with 180 to-enhance the adhesion. Apply
the
> glue in a swath about 3/8" wide to both the seal, the aileron and
> closeout.-Use masking tape to keep your glue line to the prescribed
> width and remove the tape once the glue is dry.- You can also use
the
> masking tape to provide a guide when you scuff the area to be glued,
> but wipe it with acetone to remove dust before putting the-glue
> on.-Allow the glue to dry, usually about 20 minutes, remove the
> masking tape,-then stick the seal to the leading edge of the aileron
> first, preferably while on your work bench. If you-screw something
up
> Xylene will remove the glue easily without harming your paint.-The
> next part takes an extra set of hands.
> -
> With one person holding the aileron close to the wing, attach the
> other half of the cloth to the closeout forming an "S" pattern. Avoid
> wrinkles.-See this drawing for details:
> http://wingsandwheels.com/page28.htm
> -
> Then, reattach the aileron as you would normally do. Check the throw
> and make sure you are not binding! If you apply the seal correctly you
> will not even know it is there. I have also sealed my rudder in a
> similar fashion as well as the trim tabs. They create similar drag
> when deflected.
> -
> I can't say specifically-what improvements have occurred in N245E as
a
> result of the seals since I've not ever flown it without them. I can
> tell you that I exceed Europas published numbers with a fixed pitch
> prop. I can also tell you that on gliders we generally see 2 to 4
> points increase in glide and a noticeable-decrease in sink rate,
even
> on the old-"woodies",-after the application of seals.-In power
planes
> this translates to faster cruise, better climb rates-and better fuel
> economy.
> -
> Anyway, hope it helps!
>
> Regards,
> -
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN (TN89)
> N245E - Flying
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
> See what's free at AOL.com.
>
>
Message 4
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Fellow builders in North America,
I'm getting ready to do Mod 72 and was hoping to borrow a reamer for the
job. Does anyone have one to loan in the coming months?
Thanks,
Brad
Brad Shafer
773-991-2632
21707 Morningdove Ct
Kildeer, Illinois 60047
Message 5
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| Subject: | Europa handling characteristics vs Tomahawk and Piper Warriar |
This question probably cannot be answered by too many people. It would
require that someone has been up in all 3 of these craft, or intimately
knowledgeable about them all. I have the option of finishing off my flight
training in a (cheaper to operate) Piper Tomahawk, or a (what I'm used to)
Piper Warrior. I went up in the Tomahawk yesterday, but am leaning towards
the Warrior, unless the Europa flies more like a tomahawk than the Warrior.
Then I might stick with it. For those in the know, which craft does the
Europa most fly like, concerning stalls, handling, etc? Next flight is
Friday, so a decision must be made soon.
Thanks,
Greg (A050)
Do not archive
Message 6
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I just ordered one from here:
http://www.msdiscount.com/store/columnar.aspx?cat_id=5351&session_id=92
2357137&referer=&sessioncookieset
Glenn
> From: bshafer@extremenetworks.com> To: europa-list@matronics.com> Subject
: Europa-List: 16.5 mm Reamer> Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 09:08:26 -0700> > -->
Europa-List message posted by: Brad Shafer <bshafer@extremenetworks.com>> >
Fellow builders in North America,> I'm getting ready to do Mod 72 and was
hoping to borrow a reamer for the> job. Does anyone have one to loan in the
coming months?> Thanks,> Brad> > Brad Shafer> 773-991-2632> 21707 Morningd
========================> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
Change is good. See what=92s different about Windows Live Hotmail.
www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/default.html?locale=en-us&ocid=TX
T_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_changegood_0507
Message 7
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Well I am no great computer wizard. However, this is the story with regard
to G-JULZ.
When the engine was first installed, my laptop was running Windows 98 and
was quite successful in in setting up the throttle.
My new Laptop is a PC World Advent using Windows XP Home. Unfortunately it
does not have a serial connector. Sometime back I bought a USB Serial
Converter so that I could programme a sound chip - a future europa
modification I am working on.
This afternoon I connected up the laptop to the aircraft TCU and tried the
Rotax software.
My TCU Serial Number is 4418154 and the software in use is TLR 4.6a. The
connection was made with the USB converter and a standard serial cable
plugged into the TCU cable. The converter was selected to COM 2.
Double clicking on the TLR 4.6a icon brings up the programme in the
mentioned "Command Window" - I have to report that all the functions of the
programme worked perfectly, throttle calibration and setup was confirmed and
a download of the TCU worked fine.
Perhaps, my system is a one-off, I will leave the experts to work that out.
regards,
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jos Okhuijsen" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: TCU/Dongle
>
> Sorry for you folks, but the window is called a command window.
> The session looks like dos, but it is a cmd session.
> It's a Dos look a like but it is not Dos.
> It does things Dos does not do, and it can't do some mainly hardware
> connected stuff that Dos does.
> A lot of old dos stuff won't work there.
> The Rotax com stuff won't work there.
> And that was what the question was about.
>
>> Click on START > Run > (type) CMD > (press) Enter brings up the DOS
>> window in
>> Windows 2000 and XP.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
> --
> workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
> http://www.europaowners.org/kit600
>
>
> --
> 269.6.5/793 - Release Date: 07/05/2007 14:55
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Europa handling characteristics vs Tomahawk and Piper |
Warriar
Assuming your Europa is a Tri Gear then the Tomahawk is as near as
either
those you mention, BUT the Europa is much more responsive. The big
difference with the Europa is its lack of inertia and this definitely
needs
to be appreciated to avoid awkward landings. You need to keep power on
right into the flare.
If yours is a Mono then practice in a Cub would be much more useful to
you.
I hope this helps a little
Pete
UK kit 52
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gregoryf.flyboy
Sent: 09 May 2007 17:11
Subject: Europa-List: Europa handling characteristics vs Tomahawk and
Piper
Warriar
This question probably cannot be answered by too many people. It would
require that someone has been up in all 3 of these craft, or intimately
knowledgeable about them all. I have the option of finishing off my
flight
training in a (cheaper to operate) Piper Tomahawk, or a (what I=92m used
to)
Piper Warrior. I went up in the Tomahawk yesterday, but am leaning
towards
the Warrior, unless the Europa flies more like a tomahawk than the
Warrior.
Then I might stick with it. For those in the know, which craft does the
Europa most fly like, concerning stalls, handling, etc? Next flight is
Friday, so a decision must be made soon.
Thanks,
Greg (A050)
Do not archive
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/
Nav
igator?Europa-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
08/05/2007
14:23
08/05/2007
14:23
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Europa handling characteristics vs Tomahawk and Piper |
Warriar
Hello Greg
I went from many years of flying the Warrior to a trigear Europa. I
expected the Europa to be a bit like the Warrior but it isn't. Main
differences are:
Europa is much more responsive to all controls - its smaller,
lighter, has stick not yoke, aerobatic (if you don't live in the UK).
It feels frisky at first.
Europa in noticeably less draggy than the Warrior, eg taking more
time to slow to flap extension speed in the circuit.
Unlike the Warrior, the Europa is unforgiving of being landed too
fast (fragile nose gear and tendency to PIO/porpoise on a bumpy
runway, if allowed)
Castoring nosewheel means brakes needed for first few metres of
takeoff run. Also, the nosewheel can have shimmying issues if not set
up right.
Warrior is built like a brick s**thouse, Europa isn't and needs much
more mechanical sympathy.
Stalling is equally benign, in my experience.
If you are building a mono wheel then get advice from experienced
monowheel pilots.
I can't comment on the Tomahawk.
Whatever you do, pick someone good to do your conversion training
when the time comes.
Best wishes
Willie Harrison
On 9 May 2007, at 17:11, gregoryf.flyboy wrote:
>
>
> This question probably cannot be answered by too many people. It
> would require that someone has been up in all 3 of these craft, or
> intimately knowledgeable about them all. I have the option of
> finishing off my flight training in a (cheaper to operate) Piper
> Tomahawk, or a (what I=92m used to) Piper Warrior. I went up in the
> Tomahawk yesterday, but am leaning towards the Warrior, unless the
> Europa flies more like a tomahawk than the Warrior. Then I might
> stick with it. For those in the know, which craft does the Europa
> most fly like, concerning stalls, handling, etc? Next flight is
> Friday, so a decision must be made soon.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Greg (A050)
>
>
> Do not archive
>
> ========================
> ========================
>
Message 10
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Jos, you might be right about the TCU software but for those who want to try
running it under Windows XP (I haven't) the attached file tells how to go
about it. This file is a few relevant pages copied from the digital version
of the book "Microsoft Windows XP Inside Out" published by Microsoft Press.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jos Okhuijsen
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: TCU/Dongle
Sorry for you folks, but the window is called a command window.
The session looks like dos, but it is a cmd session.
It's a Dos look a like but it is not Dos.
It does things Dos does not do, and it can't do some mainly hardware
connected stuff that Dos does.
A lot of old dos stuff won't work there.
The Rotax com stuff won't work there.
And that was what the question was about.
> Click on START > Run > (type) CMD > (press) Enter brings up the DOS
> window in
> Windows 2000 and XP.
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
--
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http://www.europaowners.org/kit600
Message 11
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| Subject: | Europa handling characteristics vs Tomahawk and Piper |
Warriar
Greg,
If you can find one locally, a Diamond Katana would probably give the
closest approximation of a tri-gear.
Lots of them in use here ( London, Ont, Canada, where they are built)
Dave A061
"Peter Jeffers" <pjeffers@talktalk.net>
Sent by: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
05/09/2007 01:10 PM
Please respond to europa-list
To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
cc:
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa handling characteristics vs
Tomahawk and Piper
Warriar
Assuming your Europa is a Tri Gear then the Tomahawk is as near as either
those you mention, BUT the Europa is much more responsive. The big
difference with the Europa is its lack of inertia and this definitely
needs to be appreciated to avoid awkward landings. You need to keep power
on right into the flare.
If yours is a Mono then practice in a Cub would be much more useful to
you.
I hope this helps a little
Pete
UK kit 52
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gregoryf.flyboy
Sent: 09 May 2007 17:11
Subject: Europa-List: Europa handling characteristics vs Tomahawk and Piper
Warriar
This question probably cannot be answered by too many people. It would
require that someone has been up in all 3 of these craft, or intimately
knowledgeable about them all. I have the option of finishing off my flight
training in a (cheaper to operate) Piper Tomahawk, or a (what I'm used to)
Piper Warrior. I went up in the Tomahawk yesterday, but am leaning towards
the Warrior, unless the Europa flies more like a tomahawk than the
Warrior. Then I might stick with it. For those in the know, which craft
does the Europa most fly like, concerning stalls, handling, etc? Next
flight is Friday, so a decision must be made soon.
Thanks,
Greg (A050)
Do not archive
08/05/2007 14:23
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Message 12
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Mike,
> Sometime back I bought a USB Serial Converter .....
Interesting data.
May I ask what type USB Serial Converter you are using ?
Thanks,
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 13
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Yes, good stuff.
I've got Mylar strips on the top of my ailerons, no sign of lifting or
buzzing.
Also per the local glider guy, I used white "duct" cloth tape on the
underside hinge line, I really don't think it causes any drag that far
back on the wing.
No idea if this makes any difference to speed, but it does make the
aileron response crisper.
Dave A061
Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Sent by: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
05/09/2007 11:43 AM
Please respond to europa-list
To: europa-list@matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: seals
John,
Thanks for the comprehensive "treatise" (and I use the word with utmost
respect) on this fascinating subject.
Fred
do not archive
On Wednesday, May 9, 2007, at 05:08 AM, TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 5/9/2007 2:59:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> europa-list@matronics.com writes:
>
> My understanding is that preventing the air going over the flap, in
> cruise, reduces drag, resulting in higher cruise speed, which I have
> experienced.- I don't have the engineering background to completely
> understand what is happening to the wing, in flight.- That's why I
> depend on the guys on the list to keep me straight.- I'm more of a "try
> it and see" kinda guy... :)- John's advice is based on the success that
> the glider guys have had, sealing the gaps.- It seems to have worked on
> Baby Blue, as well.- Continued testing will tell to what degree of
> advantage the seals make.- It may very well prove that the extra few
> knots is not worth the float upon landing.- I won't know until I
> satisfy
> myself that I've explored all the angles (and strip widths)... ;)
>
> -
> Hey Jeff, et al,
> -
> The concept behind seals is pretty simple. In flight the wing creates
> a low pressure area on the top and high pressure on the
> bottom.-(Bernoulli at it again)-This pressure differential will try t
o
> equalize through the gap in the flap area and the hinge line of the
> ailerons. This is also true to some extent on the rudder hinge line
> and the-trim tabs when they are deflected.-This equalization causes
> drag, a lot of drag. So, the idea behind seals, both flap gap and
> positive seals on ailerons (and rudder and trim tabs), is to prevent
> this pressure equalization.
> -
> On N245E I used PVC weather-strip to create the flap gap seal. The
> size will depend on how big your gap is between the leading edge of
> the flap and the flap closeout when retracted. Choose a foam that is
> slightly thicker than the widest spot in the gap you have. The XS flap
> closeout looks as if it were designed to be sealed, given the flat
> area at the bottom rear-of the closeout. If you apply the foam strip
> to the area where the flap "noses" into the closeout when up it will
> seal this area for cruise flight, but still allow air to flow over the
> flap when extended. Use a foam that crushes easily when the flap comes
> in contact with it. You-don't want to use a foam that is too stiff or
> too thick or-else your flaps won't fully-retract. PVC weather-strip
> is-soft and pliable and works quite well. It is also fairly UV
> resistant and is very cheap. It's available at any hardware store in
> various thicknesses. We've found that open cell foams tend to not last
> very long due to UV-and they don't seal as well as closed cell-foams
> like PVC.-I also used weather-strip on the ends of my flaps so that
> they seal against the side of the fuselage when they are in the up
> position. According to Bruce Carmichael, renowned Aerodynamicist who
> wrote a book on drag reduction in homebuilts, the wing root/fuselage
> junction is another area of high drag on most airplanes. Sealing it up
> helps, too.
> -
> Aileron seals are a bit more tricky to employ. Some folks apply Mylar
> strips over the hinge lines and think they've sealed their ailerons.
> This is not true. Mylar is not a seal, but rather is applied-to help
> the boundary flow stay attached over the hinge line.-Mylar is also
> somewhat cosmetic in that-it hides the hinge line. At high speeds the
> Mylar will lift up off the wing due to the pressure equalization, thus
> negating the effects of any sealing the Mylar might be offering. In
> some cases the Mylar will "buzz" at high speeds.
> -
> For sealing ailerons you need to install what are known as positive
> seals. These seals go from the leading edge of the aileron to the rear
> of the closeout. There are commercially available materials for this,
> including various types of cloth and Teflon tapes. Some folks even
> use-cloth-tape along the length of the aileron on the undersurface.
> This is fine on low speed gliders, but I think at the speeds we fly
> this method-likely creates more drag.-Personally, I like parachute
> cloth for making positive seals. Whatever you use it needs to be zero
> porosity, i.e., allowing no airflow through the material. Parachute
> cloth is thin, flexible, zero porosity and-fits the bill here
> perfectly. Here at the 'Possum Werks we use Parachute cloth almost
> exclusively to fabricate positive seals. (it also helps that we have a
> parachute manufacturer a few miles down the road that gives us their
> scraps)
> -
> First remove the aileron. Then, cut a strip of parachute cloth about
> 3" wide exactly the length of the aileron. The width you use might
> take some trial and error to get it right.-You don't want it so wide
> the-the material-bunches up when the aileron is-deflected. 2.5' to
> 3"-width should work on most Europas. Then, yellow contact cement is
> applied to the leading edge of the aileron, the rear of the closeout
> and the mating surfaces of the cloth. We use a brand of glue-called
> Plio-bond. It's handy in that it comes in a small bottle with a brush
> applicator.-3M also makes-good contact-cement if you can find it.
> Avoid the water based stuff. It is crap.
> -
> Scuff the area to be glued with 180 to-enhance the adhesion. Apply the
> glue in a swath about 3/8" wide to both the seal, the aileron and
> closeout.-Use masking tape to keep your glue line to the prescribed
> width and remove the tape once the glue is dry.- You can also use the
> masking tape to provide a guide when you scuff the area to be glued,
> but wipe it with acetone to remove dust before putting the-glue
> on.-Allow the glue to dry, usually about 20 minutes, remove the
> masking tape,-then stick the seal to the leading edge of the aileron
> first, preferably while on your work bench. If you-screw something up
> Xylene will remove the glue easily without harming your paint.-The
> next part takes an extra set of hands.
> -
> With one person holding the aileron close to the wing, attach the
> other half of the cloth to the closeout forming an "S" pattern. Avoid
> wrinkles.-See this drawing for details:
> http://wingsandwheels.com/page28.htm
> -
> Then, reattach the aileron as you would normally do. Check the throw
> and make sure you are not binding! If you apply the seal correctly you
> will not even know it is there. I have also sealed my rudder in a
> similar fashion as well as the trim tabs. They create similar drag
> when deflected.
> -
> I can't say specifically-what improvements have occurred in N245E as a
> result of the seals since I've not ever flown it without them. I can
> tell you that I exceed Europas published numbers with a fixed pitch
> prop. I can also tell you that on gliders we generally see 2 to 4
> points increase in glide and a noticeable-decrease in sink rate, even
> on the old-"woodies",-after the application of seals.-In power plan
es
> this translates to faster cruise, better climb rates-and better fuel
> economy.
> -
> Anyway, hope it helps!
>
> Regards,
> -
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN (TN89)
> N245E - Flying
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
> See what's free at AOL.com.
>
>
Message 14
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Hi Carl;
thanks for the info. I've tried slime too and have always had a devil of a time
trying to get it into the tube. It seems to clog up and then won't go in- even
when the tire is completely flat and the valve is at the 10 or 2 o'clock position.
What's your secret?
Paul Boulet, N914PB- test flying my tri gear convert (still!)
Malibu, CA
----- Original Message ----
From: Carl Pattinson <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2007 12:03:51 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tire change
I have used "slime" (green stuff) in the wheeles of my car for the last couple
of years and it has saved repairs on about 3 or 4 punctures. When the wheels were
last replaced I think about three had been dosed with the stuff and the tyre
mechanics didnt say a thing.
The manufacturer says you shouldnt exceed 60mph with the stuff but I think they
are simply covering their backsides. I have only had one puncture unseal itself
and it reverted to a slow puncture which was in no way dangerous. It resealed
itself (see below)
Its brilliant stuff and usually plugs a hole straight away. One tyre didnt seal
straight away and I simply left the car parked with the hole pointing at the
ground and the next day it was fixed - probably drove another 5000 miles on that
tyre.
If you overdo the application it can throw the wheel out of balance though this
wouldnt be an issue with an Europa.
Have a couple of cans of the stuff in the gagage and was meaning to use some on
the Europa but havent got round to it. You can buy it in tubed or tubeless variety.
The tubeless has loads of ground up rubber bits in it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Duncan & Ami McFadyean
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tire change
I can confirm that those kits are still available, although of course they are
only for tubeless tyres.
I thought that plugging was illegal for UK road-use!
Duncan Mcf.
----- Original Message -----
From: William Harrison
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tire change
It is brilliant stuff, BUT, can I sound a note of caution from personal experience?
A tin of it once got me almost home after a blow out on a motorbike. 100 miles
later (1 mile from home...) it went again and refused to respond to a second dose.
When examined later, a 3 inch split was found in the inner tube (caused by
incorrect fitting - it had been put in with a crease which had caused the rubber
either side to abrade). The magic aerosol held it together - amazingly -
and I might have trusted it as a permanent repair if it hadn't gone again. That's
the problem: the stuff is so good that it may, under some circumstances, be
able to mask a seriously faulty tyre.
I always carry some when touring in the car/bike/plane, (have never needed it since
though), but would always want to have a proper repair ASAP after getting
home.
Incidentally, BMW used to supply a tyre plugging kit in motorcycle tool kits for
the user to repair a puncture at the roadside without needing to remove the
tyre. They have stopped now due to fears of product liability, I believe, although
you can still get the kits. They rely on a crochet hook type tool to instal
the plug and have a cylinder of compressed gas to reinflate the tyre.
Willie Harrison - G-BZNY
On 8 May 2007, at 11:30, Raimo Toivio wrote:
I have thought it is not only to get home
- repair should be permanent until a next
puncture happens. In my case my tyre has
been OK after aerosol, so far. And if not,
inner tyres are not expensive.
Att least I have in my mono an inner tyre...
Regards, Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Parkin
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tire change
While they work admirably, the tyre inflating aerosols have one major drawback
- if the experience with my Peugeot 206 is anything to go by.
The 206 does not come with a spare tyre, so I used the supplied aerosol to get
me home. It worked brilliantly, but when I took the offending item to the tyre
place to have it repaired, I was told that after using the aerosol it was impossible
to repair. I had to buy a new tyre.
Expensive puncture.
regards,
Mike
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Gert Dalgaard
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tire change
- I carry one in my AC.... could help me get home to tea one day.
/Gert
OY-GDS/mono/914
Den 07/05/2007 kl. 12.22 skrev Graham:
----- Original Message -----
From: William Harrison
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tire change
How does anyone rate tyre inflation/sealing aerosols for emergency get-you-home
application?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 15
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Hi Mike,
Interesting,
The version i have is def. 4.6, never saw a 4.6a, although the maintenance
manual talks about it.
The executable name is TRL46.exe and is 167kb.
Could you please check yours and let us know?
It would be interesting to know if there are really different versions
around.
Did you try to print the content of the log?
As said before, i got mine running from a memory stick, but hangs on
printing.
But i could find out the engine had been running for 42 minutes from which
5 minutes at 5800 rpm, before i got it out of the box.
Rob, the MS dos compatible instructions are good for "well-behaved"
programs, which are programs that do not try to manupulate hardware
directly. Try to run for instance an old Dos game, and you will see what
happens with some games.
But It could very well be, that a 4.6a version would be "well behaved" and
cause no problems.
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen.
--
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http://www.europaowners.org/kit600
Message 16
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Jos, (and any 914 owners interested)
Printing from the laptop of the TCU memory dump is fine.
The list will not accept a .exe file. If anyone would like me to email to
them I could change the .exe to .doc???
and email it.
Jos, perhaps you could post it on the europa list?
regards,
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jos Okhuijsen" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: TCU/Dongle
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Interesting,
> The version i have is def. 4.6, never saw a 4.6a, although the maintenance
> manual talks about it.
> The executable name is TRL46.exe and is 167kb.
> Could you please check yours and let us know?
> It would be interesting to know if there are really different versions
> around.
>
> Did you try to print the content of the log?
> As said before, i got mine running from a memory stick, but hangs on
> printing.
> But i could find out the engine had been running for 42 minutes from which
> 5 minutes at 5800 rpm, before i got it out of the box.
>
> Rob, the MS dos compatible instructions are good for "well-behaved"
> programs, which are programs that do not try to manupulate hardware
> directly. Try to run for instance an old Dos game, and you will see what
> happens with some games.
> But It could very well be, that a 4.6a version would be "well behaved" and
> cause no problems.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen.
>
> --
> workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
> http://www.europaowners.org/kit600
>
>
> --
> 269.6.6/794 - Release Date: 08/05/2007 14:23
>
>
Message 17
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Right you are, Jos.
I'm guessing that the developers were not so clever as to write code that
bypasses DOS. Plus, Microsoft would have us believe (What, me, a skeptic?)
that even some less than well behaved code will run in compatibility mode.
For those without ancient PC hardware and some flavor of DOS it would still
be worth a try.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jos Okhuijsen
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: TCU/Dongle
Hi Mike,
Interesting,
The version i have is def. 4.6, never saw a 4.6a, although the maintenance
manual talks about it.
The executable name is TRL46.exe and is 167kb.
Could you please check yours and let us know?
It would be interesting to know if there are really different versions
around.
Did you try to print the content of the log?
As said before, i got mine running from a memory stick, but hangs on
printing.
But i could find out the engine had been running for 42 minutes from which
5 minutes at 5800 rpm, before i got it out of the box.
Rob, the MS dos compatible instructions are good for "well-behaved"
programs, which are programs that do not try to manupulate hardware
directly. Try to run for instance an old Dos game, and you will see what
happens with some games.
But It could very well be, that a 4.6a version would be "well behaved" and
cause no problems.
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen.
--
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http://www.europaowners.org/kit600
Message 18
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Thanks Mike,
It has been added to the document section of the europa owners forum
http://www.europaowners.org as a zip, and can be freely downloaded. Unzip
it in some directory you remember and run it from there.
Please folks, play with it and communicate the results.
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
--
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http://www.europaowners.org/kit600
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Europa handling characteristics vs Tomahawk and Piper |
Warriar
At 2007-05-09 09:11 -0700 gregoryf.flyboy wrote:
>I have the option of finishing off my flight training in a (cheaper
>to operate) Piper Tomahawk, or a (what I'm used to) Piper Warrior
>which craft does the Europa most fly like, concerning stalls, handling, etc
Greg - from my personal experience of flying all 3 types, the
immediate answer is "none of the above"!
However, I think the Tomahawk might be the best choice as it will be
nearer the weight and inertia of the Europa.
After you get your licence, you'll need a type conversion course to
drive your Europa safely and satisfactorily - and if it's a monowheel
that will be a non-trvial exercise.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson PFA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/
| 750 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Votex Generators |
All,
Has anyone installed Vortex Generators on their Europa Aircraft?? If
not, why not? If you have, would you please share your findings?
Thank you very much.
Dale Hetrick
Europa XS, Tri-Gear, Jabiru
80 hours
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