Europa-List Digest Archive

Fri 05/18/07


Total Messages Posted: 12



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:02 AM - Re: Outrigger legs (William Mills)
     2. 02:12 AM - Re: Outrigger legs (William Mills)
     3. 02:19 AM - Re: Outrigger legs (William Mills)
     4. 02:22 AM - Re: Outrigger legs (William Mills)
     5. 03:45 AM - Outrigger legs (Justin Kennedy)
     6. 07:38 AM - Don't shoot the messenger! Mono Nylon stabiliser legs.... (R.C.Harrison)
     7. 07:47 AM - Reamer for mod 72 (Richard Iddon)
     8. 09:16 AM - Re: *SPAM* Reamer for mod 72 (danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk)
     9. 03:13 PM - Woodcomp propeller controls (Graham Higgins)
    10. 04:43 PM - Redux crystals (Fred Klein)
    11. 11:23 PM - Re: Woodcomp propeller controls (William Mills)
    12. 11:47 PM - Re: Redux crystals (William Mills)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:02:06 AM PST US
    From: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
    Subject: Re: Outrigger legs
    The original length seems to work alright and will take 90 degs of bending without affecting the ends. However, as the largest bending moment is at the top, I would suggest you allow for a little more penetration at the top rather than at the fork end. Regards, William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Sarangan" <asarangan@yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 6:49 PM Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger legs > > Just curious why the full depth available in OR1 and the wheel fork are > not utilized by the nylon legs. The nylon rod is inserted only part way > into the sockets and the bolt holes are drilled just 5mm from the rod > ends. This design seems a bit strange to me. > > I am thinking of buying slightly longer rods and using the full socket > lengths for better support of the legs. > > Also, why nylon? It would seem that a hollow aluminum tube or even PVC > might provide better strength and ligher weight. > > > -- > 12:17 > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:12:17 AM PST US
    From: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
    Subject: Re: Outrigger legs
    If you are unluckily enough to ground loop in a strong cross wind, it is very likely you will grind away the forward face of the fairing. I have repaired my port fairing twice now! I think you should be able to achieve both wheels touching with the standard legs and as mentioned previously, it is not necessary to have full penetration (if you will pardon the expression!) of the nylon rod into the sockets. My first pair of standard legs lasted for 1100 hours, but eventually took up a permanent set into a curve, that reduced their effective length, so I have just replaced them and it has made handling on take-off and landing more positive. Regards, William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:25 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Outrigger legs > > Andrew, > > I too was surprised at what you've determined...particularly if the rod is > subject to the 90 degree bending which Graham describes. > > If (presumably momentary) bending is to the 90 degree extreme, I can't > help but wonder if the forward portion of the speed kit fairing doesn't > get ground away...(?...Does this in fact occur?) > > Since mono-flyers have advised to NOT make the final drilling of the rods > until the plane is sitting on the gear w/ full weight in order to assure > that the outrigger wheels can both touch the pavement at the same time for > optimal ground handling, I will probably be ordering longer lengths of rod > in order to effect full bearing within the wheel fork...although I have no > idea whether mono-flyers routinely have done so. > > Any comments from currently flying mono-guys? > > Fred > > On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 10:49 AM, Andrew Sarangan wrote: > >> >> Just curious why the full depth available in OR1 and the wheel fork are >> not utilized by the nylon legs. > > > -- > 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 13/05/2007 12:17 > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 02:19:12 AM PST US
    From: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
    Subject: Re: Outrigger legs
    No need to replace the legs, just drill new holes to realign the wheels, which worked alright for me and didn't seem to weaken the fixing. (1100 hours without a problem) It is important to make sure the wheels track correctly, otherwise the outrigger tyres will wear on one side very badly. Regards, William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Sarangan" <asarangan@yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 10:56 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Outrigger legs > > I was not aware of this advice to not drill the rods until the final > phase. Well, mine is done, so I may have to buy a new set of rods when > the time comes. > > > --- Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote: > >> <fklein@orcasonline.com> >> >> Andrew, >> >> I too was surprised at what you've determined...particularly if the >> rod >> is subject to the 90 degree bending which Graham describes. >> >> If (presumably momentary) bending is to the 90 degree extreme, I >> can't >> help but wonder if the forward portion of the speed kit fairing >> doesn't >> get ground away...(?...Does this in fact occur?) >> >> Since mono-flyers have advised to NOT make the final drilling of the >> rods until the plane is sitting on the gear w/ full weight in order >> to >> assure that the outrigger wheels can both touch the pavement at the >> same time for optimal ground handling, I will probably be ordering >> longer lengths of rod in order to effect full bearing within the >> wheel >> fork...although I have no idea whether mono-flyers routinely have >> done >> so. >> >> Any comments from currently flying mono-guys? >> >> Fred >> >> On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 10:49 AM, Andrew Sarangan wrote: >> >> > <asarangan@yahoo.com> >> > >> > Just curious why the full depth available in OR1 and the wheel fork >> are >> > not utilized by the nylon legs. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > 12:17 > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 02:22:11 AM PST US
    From: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
    Subject: Re: Outrigger legs
    I made mine touch the ground when empty plus fuel etc, but I don't think it is that sensitive. Regards, William ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Friedland To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 12:41 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Outrigger legs My builders manual does not say to wait until the final phase to drill the rods and certainly nothing about being sure that both outrigger wheels can reach the ground when rigged. Should the leg length reach the ground when the aircraft is empty? With one person on board or two? With a full tank of fuel? I drilled the legs to the measurement called for in the manual and since I put a tire (tyre?) on that is larger in diameter, my legs are probably too short. Tom Friedland On 5/17/07, Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@yahoo.com> wrote: <asarangan@yahoo.com > I was not aware of this advice to not drill the rods until the final phase. Well, mine is done, so I may have to buy a new set of rods when the time comes. --- Fred Klein < fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote: > <fklein@orcasonline.com> > > Andrew, > > I too was surprised at what you've determined...particularly if the > rod > is subject to the 90 degree bending which Graham describes. > > If (presumably momentary) bending is to the 90 degree extreme, I > can't > help but wonder if the forward portion of the speed kit fairing > doesn't > get ground away...(?...Does this in fact occur?) > > Since mono-flyers have advised to NOT make the final drilling of the > rods until the plane is sitting on the gear w/ full weight in order > to > assure that the outrigger wheels can both touch the pavement at the > same time for optimal ground handling, I will probably be ordering > longer lengths of rod in order to effect full bearing within the > wheel > fork...although I have no idea whether mono-flyers routinely have > done > so. > > Any comments from currently flying mono-guys? > > Fred > > On Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 10:49 AM, Andrew Sarangan wrote: > > > <asarangan@yahoo.com> > > > > Just curious why the full depth available in OR1 and the wheel fork ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 13/05/2007 12:17


    Message 5


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    Time: 03:45:36 AM PST US
    Subject: Outrigger legs
    From: "Justin Kennedy" <justin@systemwise.co.uk>
    Hi All I will be going to Wick, weather permitting, so hope to meet up with you Northern Lights Tour boys then. Outrigger Legs My outrigger legs had to be drilled very close to the end to make them long enough. If I could buy a set of new ones that were say 2 inches longer. I would. They would then have a more satisfactory seating in the top housing. I worry that they are only just in far enough though I have had a heavy landing or three and they haven't given up. The other great outrigger mystery is the toe in. In an attempt to work out exactly how much toe in was required to stop the wheels being warn unevenly I came up with a revelation. If you draw the tracking out on paper or CAD it shows that you need some toe out. However in practice you need toe in as the outriggers are being worn more on the inboard side. I can't get to the bottom if this one at all. I don't intend to bother with it anymore and set a 5 degree toe in which I think will be the practical answer. If I have missed something here please tell me. Aileron sealing. I was speaking to a Long EZ man who said the whole sealing aileron thing had caused a big stir with them some time back. Their ailerons are hinged at the top in the same way as ours are at the bottom. One of the ways they seal them was to put cling film along the outside if the hinge line gap and squeeze a small bead of silicon sealant on the inside for the whole length. Remove excess with finger. Then pull of the cling film off when it is set. Flexible sealed joint results. Sounds good but I couldn't find anyone who had actually done it this way. Just thought I would mention it. Cheers Justin G-ZTED Classic Monowheel 912S Airmaster.


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:38:15 AM PST US
    From: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
    Subject: Don't shoot the messenger! Mono Nylon stabiliser legs....
    Hi! All ROGER Cullum Builder 100 has requested me to place a message here concerning the tread which has been running on suitability of the nylon supplied by Europa for Mono Kits. In his opinion he can't see why the 30 year tried and tested Schriber Motorfalk Glider legs couldn't be used for this function. Unfortunately he hasn't the material specification but thinks it to be alkathyne tubing. They seemingly have been known to accommodate the usual gliding away landings such as rough fields c/w mole hills etc. etc. Regards Bob Harrison 337 G-PTAG


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:47:03 AM PST US
    From: "Richard Iddon" <riddon@sent.com>
    Subject: Reamer for mod 72
    Hi everyone. I have been away for a bit and only just re-subscribed to the forum. I understand that the club has a couple of 16.5mm. reamers for doing mod 72. How do I get hold of one? Richard Iddon G-RIXS 17/05/2007 17:18


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:16:32 AM PST US
    From: "danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk" <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Reamer for mod 72
    Hi Richard, Get in touch with Pete Jeffers, he sent me one which I sent on to the next builder. Cheers Danny G-c.e.r.i. Richard Iddon wrote: > > Hi everyone. > > > > I have been away for a bit and only just re-subscribed to the forum. > > > > I understand that the club has a couple of 16.5mm. reamers for doing > mod 72. How do I get hold of one? > > > > Richard Iddon G-RIXS > > > 17/05/2007 17:18 > * > > > *


    Message 9


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    Time: 03:13:01 PM PST US
    From: "Graham Higgins" <ghiggins@nsw.chariot.net.au>
    Subject: Woodcomp propeller controls
    Does anyone have any info or experience in using the reverse thrust in anger? My experience of being unable to stop on rollout,( aborted takeoff) and hitting that cane drain, has been relived many times. It is not a pleasant experience( broken back, broken aircraft). I have often wondered if reverse thrust prop would have been more effective than the single mono wheel brake on dew laden grass, lightly loaded aircraft. I would imagine the aerodynamics involved would be rather complex. Graham Higgins in Oz, still rebuilding.


    Message 10


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    Time: 04:43:57 PM PST US
    Subject: Redux crystals
    From: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
    Seems I recall some posts regarding "cooking" redux to remove crystals in Redux/Araldite but darned if I can find them w/ our search engine. When I've mixed up a small batch recently and seem to have created some small, flat flakes which concerns me...are these the crystals some have posted about? The yellow paste seems fine coming out of the can...nice and gooey w/ no solids. These flakes seem to form after I've added the hardener and mixed it with the paste. Can anyone give me either a heads up warning, reassurances, and/or a "fix"? Fred cockpit module On Friday, May 18, 2007, at 03:11 PM, Graham Higgins wrote: > <ghiggins@nsw.chariot.net.au> > > Does anyone have any info or experience in using the reverse thrust in > anger? My experience of being unable to stop on rollout,( aborted > takeoff) and hitting that cane drain, has been relived many times. It > is not a pleasant experience( broken back, broken aircraft). I have > often wondered if reverse thrust prop would have been more effective > than the single mono wheel brake on dew laden grass, lightly loaded > aircraft. > I would imagine the aerodynamics involved would be rather complex. > Graham Higgins in Oz, still rebuilding. > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. >


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:23:53 PM PST US
    From: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
    Subject: Re: Woodcomp propeller controls
    Hi Graham, Very sorry to hear of your mishap, particularly your back injury and I hope you have now recovered and will soon be back in the air. I have a mono with a Woodcomp SR 3000/3 with reverse and I use it every time I land at my strip instead of using the brake (obstacles on both approaches). It is extremely effective for stopping, but whether I could activate it quickly enough for an abortive take-off (in a panic), is an unknown. For safety reasons there are a sequence of actions before reverse can be activated; U/C down, mode switch changed, throttle closed, guard lifted and reverse switch activated. All but the last two can be done in preparation for landing. Of course the U/C will already be down and no doubt you will close the throttle instinctively when you decide to abort, so if you can do the others, the prop will go into reverse in under two seconds. If you are thinking clearly and have quick reactions, I imagine it is do-able. The mono is extra wobbly on tarmac (because of reduced rudder authority), but most hard runways are long enough anyway. On grass it is fine, once the roll-out has been established. It is also very effective for losing height in the air (VSI off the clock), but Woodcomp forbid this (no doubt because of litigation) and the PFA exclude it on the "Limitations" placard. I have never had the courage to try a landing, in case there is insufficient energy for the round-out, but it might be OK if 80 knots is maintained all the way down the glide path. Apparently, C 130s can land in reverse for extremely short landings; perhaps Nigel can comment on this. Regards, William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Higgins" <ghiggins@nsw.chariot.net.au> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:11 PM Subject: Europa-List: Woodcomp propeller controls > <ghiggins@nsw.chariot.net.au> > > Does anyone have any info or experience in using the reverse thrust in > anger? My experience of being unable to stop on rollout,( aborted > takeoff) and hitting that cane drain, has been relived many times. It is > not a pleasant experience( broken back, broken aircraft). I have often > wondered if reverse thrust prop would have been more effective than the > single mono wheel brake on dew laden grass, lightly loaded aircraft. > I would imagine the aerodynamics involved would be rather complex. > Graham Higgins in Oz, still rebuilding. > > > -- > 269.7.3/809 - Release Date: 17/05/2007 17:18 > >


    Message 12


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    Time: 11:47:14 PM PST US
    From: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
    Subject: Re: Redux crystals
    Fred, The crystals are hard, they form on the top of the resin like a crust and convert any residue on the sides of the container, but they will disperse if you lower the container into hot or near boiling water for a while. It works well and apparently does not affect the quality of resin. However, I have never experienced flakes forming after mixing. Perhaps it is something to do with the hardener? Regards, William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 12:42 AM Subject: Europa-List: Redux crystals > > Seems I recall some posts regarding "cooking" redux to remove crystals in > Redux/Araldite but darned if I can find them w/ our search engine. When > I've mixed up a small batch recently and seem to have created some small, > flat flakes which concerns me...are these the crystals some have posted > about? The yellow paste seems fine coming out of the can...nice and gooey > w/ no solids. These flakes seem to form after I've added the hardener and > mixed it with the paste. Can anyone give me either a heads up warning, > reassurances, and/or a "fix"? > > Fred > cockpit module > > On Friday, May 18, 2007, at 03:11 PM, Graham Higgins wrote: > >> <ghiggins@nsw.chariot.net.au> >> >> Does anyone have any info or experience in using the reverse thrust in >> anger? My experience of being unable to stop on rollout,( aborted >> takeoff) and hitting that cane drain, has been relived many times. It is >> not a pleasant experience( broken back, broken aircraft). I have often >> wondered if reverse thrust prop would have been more effective than the >> single mono wheel brake on dew laden grass, lightly loaded aircraft. >> I would imagine the aerodynamics involved would be rather complex. >> Graham Higgins in Oz, still rebuilding. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and >> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is >> believed to be clean. >> > > > -- > 269.7.3/809 - Release Date: 17/05/2007 17:18 > >




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