---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/22/07: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:19 AM - Lost message (Carl Pattinson) 2. 12:46 AM - Oil Pressure Sender (Carl Pattinson) 3. 01:11 AM - trailer wing support profile. (Keith Hickling) 4. 01:21 AM - Re: Lost message (R.C.Harrison) 5. 01:30 AM - Re: Oil Pressure Sender (Pete Lawless) 6. 01:32 AM - Re: Oil Pressure Sender (Peter Jeffers) 7. 01:53 AM - Re: Oil Pressure Sender (Carl Pattinson) 8. 02:15 AM - Re: Oil Pressure Sender (Carl Pattinson) 9. 02:17 AM - Re: Oil Pressure Sender (Pete Lawless) 10. 02:42 AM - Re: Oil Pressure Sender (peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk) 11. 04:37 AM - Re: 914 Turbine clearance (Jim Brown) 12. 05:23 AM - Re: Lost message (Paul McAllister) 13. 07:47 AM - Re: Lost message (Jos Okhuijsen) 14. 10:21 AM - Re: Outrigger legs (Fred Klein) 15. 01:31 PM - Re: Trailer caution (Ferg Kyle) 16. 02:54 PM - Trailer caution (Erich Trombley) 17. 03:12 PM - Re: trailer wing support profile. (Raimo Toivio) 18. 03:22 PM - FW: Mode S Transponders (Alan Burrows) 19. 06:10 PM - Re: trailer wing support profile. (Steve Crimm) 20. 09:04 PM - Re: Trailer caution (Richard Schultz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:19:06 AM PST US From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: Europa-List: Lost message Is it me or is there a problem with the europa list. I posted a message last night (about the cost of oil pressure senders) and it has dissapeared somewhere (ie not made it on to the board). Just wondered - normally it only takes a couple of hours to arrive. The other possibility is that my extremely efficient spam filter (Deathtospam) has binned it. Carl Pattinson ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.C.Harrison" Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 8:47 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trailer caution > > Hi! Ferg > Sorry to hear of your misfortune, you must be "gutted". Just for the > record my wing carriers are made of spent conveyor belting lined with > carpet attached by heavy duty upholstery glue. I don't tie the wings > down but the carriers are about 12"/15" wide thereby spreading the load. > However since my trailor weighs in, loaded, at about 3 tonnes and has a > double axle linked weight transfer suspension nowt bounces! I do think > though that to spread the load is very relevant since it reduces the psi > point loading on the wing. > They are also fixed laterally by the pip pins through the spar holes. > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle > Sent: 21 May 2007 15:07 > To: EUROPALIST > Subject: Europa-List: Trailer caution > > > Cheers, > Yesterday, a buddy and I went to the airport and recovered the > Europa wings on the trailer, from the hangar. The intent was to match > same > to fuselage for purposes of rationalising feed-through sites for wiring > and > odd items. By the way, these and the other surfaces were beautifully > finished by a local firm to a tough mirror finish. > All was normal on the 30-minute trek back home, and we unloaded > same > onto brackets built to set them vertically (nose-down) prior to > installing > them. When we began the sequence, I noticed a discolouration on the port > leading edge and discovered a smashed leading edge about two inches in > diameter, right on the leading edge - right down into the blue foam. > This corresponded to the position of the wing in the rubber > strap > (lined with bubble-wrap). I noted that the pip-pin for the strap > structure > hinge release sits dead-centre under the strap. Sure enough the strap > was > pure (?) rubber and I could stretch it downward with just my fist. There > is > no question that, given the odd bump neatly handled by the trailer, > evolved > into a surge of the wing down until the pip-pin punctured the wing. > This is going to lead to at least a week's delay, in rebuilding > the > wing and then driving it about 70 miles on country roads to the > now-retired > re-finisher. He took the tools/fixtures with him to his home airport. > So this is a belated warning: > (a) reposition the clamp-folding pip-pin to another suitable site away > from > the wing leading edge, and > (b) replace the rubbery slings with some (preferably white) rubber with > cloth reinforcement to resist excess stretching. I'm still going to line > same with bubble wrap as I have saved acres of it and it works. > I will be canvassing McMaster-Carr and similar sources for same. > If > you are light years ahead of me and already possess same, please advise. > All advice gratefully accepted....... > Ferg Kyle > Classic mono 914 (ten years on 24 May) > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:46:53 AM PST US From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: Europa-List: Oil Pressure Sender With aapologies if this message gets posted twice - see below Well its finally happened, my oil pressure sender is giving up the ghost. It registers 85psi most of the time when the pressure should be nearer 50. So I thought time to replace and checked out Skydrives current price list 140 ****ing quid. When I recovered from the shock, I then did an internet search and guess what. Sonex (USA) - genuine VDO replacemet $35 ETB instruments - VDO but different connections (two instead of one) - 28 Anyone had the same experience? I would habe been happy to pay 50 for the "genuine article" but a markup of 500% - Skydrive (UK) you have got to be taking the piss ! Also whats the best way of remotely mounting the sensor so it isnt affected by vibration - I know this subject has been extensively covered before. Carl Pattinson G-LABS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Pattinson" Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:15 AM Subject: Europa-List: Lost message > > > Is it me or is there a problem with the europa list. > > I posted a message last night (about the cost of oil pressure senders) and > it has dissapeared somewhere (ie not made it on to the board). > > Just wondered - normally it only takes a couple of hours to arrive. The > other possibility is that my extremely efficient spam filter (Deathtospam) > has binned it. > > Carl Pattinson > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "R.C.Harrison" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 8:47 PM > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trailer caution > > >> >> >> Hi! Ferg >> Sorry to hear of your misfortune, you must be "gutted". Just for the >> record my wing carriers are made of spent conveyor belting lined with >> carpet attached by heavy duty upholstery glue. I don't tie the wings >> down but the carriers are about 12"/15" wide thereby spreading the load. >> However since my trailor weighs in, loaded, at about 3 tonnes and has a >> double axle linked weight transfer suspension nowt bounces! I do think >> though that to spread the load is very relevant since it reduces the psi >> point loading on the wing. >> They are also fixed laterally by the pip pins through the spar holes. >> Regards >> Bob Harrison G-PTAG >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle >> Sent: 21 May 2007 15:07 >> To: EUROPALIST >> Subject: Europa-List: Trailer caution >> >> >> Cheers, >> Yesterday, a buddy and I went to the airport and recovered the >> Europa wings on the trailer, from the hangar. The intent was to match >> same >> to fuselage for purposes of rationalising feed-through sites for wiring >> and >> odd items. By the way, these and the other surfaces were beautifully >> finished by a local firm to a tough mirror finish. >> All was normal on the 30-minute trek back home, and we unloaded >> same >> onto brackets built to set them vertically (nose-down) prior to >> installing >> them. When we began the sequence, I noticed a discolouration on the port >> leading edge and discovered a smashed leading edge about two inches in >> diameter, right on the leading edge - right down into the blue foam. >> This corresponded to the position of the wing in the rubber >> strap >> (lined with bubble-wrap). I noted that the pip-pin for the strap >> structure >> hinge release sits dead-centre under the strap. Sure enough the strap >> was >> pure (?) rubber and I could stretch it downward with just my fist. There >> is >> no question that, given the odd bump neatly handled by the trailer, >> evolved >> into a surge of the wing down until the pip-pin punctured the wing. >> This is going to lead to at least a week's delay, in rebuilding >> the >> wing and then driving it about 70 miles on country roads to the >> now-retired >> re-finisher. He took the tools/fixtures with him to his home airport. >> So this is a belated warning: >> (a) reposition the clamp-folding pip-pin to another suitable site away >> from >> the wing leading edge, and >> (b) replace the rubbery slings with some (preferably white) rubber with >> cloth reinforcement to resist excess stretching. I'm still going to line >> same with bubble wrap as I have saved acres of it and it works. >> I will be canvassing McMaster-Carr and similar sources for same. >> If >> you are light years ahead of me and already possess same, please advise. >> All advice gratefully accepted....... >> Ferg Kyle >> Classic mono 914 (ten years on 24 May) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:11:04 AM PST US From: Keith Hickling Subject: Europa-List: trailer wing support profile. Does anyone have a wing profile forward of the spar at the position of the wing support on the factory trailer? On my drawing this is 2 metres from the root spar pin bush. If anyone has one they could email or post to me I would be very grateful and it would save a lot of work trying to transcribe it from the wing. I need it to get the trailer wing supports made. Keith Hickling, New Zealand. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:21:03 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lost message Hi! Carl I can't say I noticed it but not being an authority on subject may have deleted it unwittingly. You should be able to check on the Matronics Circuit all messages which have been posted. However just noticed this msg is from Matronics owner ? Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Do not archive.... -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Pattinson Sent: 22 May 2007 08:15 Subject: Europa-List: Lost message Is it me or is there a problem with the europa list. I posted a message last night (about the cost of oil pressure senders) and it has dissapeared somewhere (ie not made it on to the board). Just wondered - normally it only takes a couple of hours to arrive. The other possibility is that my extremely efficient spam filter (Deathtospam) has binned it. Carl Pattinson ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.C.Harrison" Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 8:47 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trailer caution > > Hi! Ferg > Sorry to hear of your misfortune, you must be "gutted". Just for the > record my wing carriers are made of spent conveyor belting lined with > carpet attached by heavy duty upholstery glue. I don't tie the wings > down but the carriers are about 12"/15" wide thereby spreading the load. > However since my trailor weighs in, loaded, at about 3 tonnes and has a > double axle linked weight transfer suspension nowt bounces! I do think > though that to spread the load is very relevant since it reduces the psi > point loading on the wing. > They are also fixed laterally by the pip pins through the spar holes. > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle > Sent: 21 May 2007 15:07 > To: EUROPALIST > Subject: Europa-List: Trailer caution > > > Cheers, > Yesterday, a buddy and I went to the airport and recovered the > Europa wings on the trailer, from the hangar. The intent was to match > same > to fuselage for purposes of rationalising feed-through sites for wiring > and > odd items. By the way, these and the other surfaces were beautifully > finished by a local firm to a tough mirror finish. > All was normal on the 30-minute trek back home, and we unloaded > same > onto brackets built to set them vertically (nose-down) prior to > installing > them. When we began the sequence, I noticed a discolouration on the port > leading edge and discovered a smashed leading edge about two inches in > diameter, right on the leading edge - right down into the blue foam. > This corresponded to the position of the wing in the rubber > strap > (lined with bubble-wrap). I noted that the pip-pin for the strap > structure > hinge release sits dead-centre under the strap. Sure enough the strap > was > pure (?) rubber and I could stretch it downward with just my fist. There > is > no question that, given the odd bump neatly handled by the trailer, > evolved > into a surge of the wing down until the pip-pin punctured the wing. > This is going to lead to at least a week's delay, in rebuilding > the > wing and then driving it about 70 miles on country roads to the > now-retired > re-finisher. He took the tools/fixtures with him to his home airport. > So this is a belated warning: > (a) reposition the clamp-folding pip-pin to another suitable site away > from > the wing leading edge, and > (b) replace the rubbery slings with some (preferably white) rubber with > cloth reinforcement to resist excess stretching. I'm still going to line > same with bubble wrap as I have saved acres of it and it works. > I will be canvassing McMaster-Carr and similar sources for same. > If > you are light years ahead of me and already possess same, please advise. > All advice gratefully accepted....... > Ferg Kyle > Classic mono 914 (ten years on 24 May) > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:30:01 AM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Oil Pressure Sender Carl Demon Tweaks (race and rally cars bits) sell the VDO gauge for 44, I can't spot the sender in the catalogue but they must have it to go with the gauge. Worth a call 01978 664466 or www.demon-tweeks.co.uk . I have bought all sorts of odd bits from them and they are very slick with delivery. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Pattinson Sent: 22 May 2007 08:45 Subject: Europa-List: Oil Pressure Sender With aapologies if this message gets posted twice - see below Well its finally happened, my oil pressure sender is giving up the ghost. It registers 85psi most of the time when the pressure should be nearer 50. So I thought time to replace and checked out Skydrives current price list 140 ****ing quid. When I recovered from the shock, I then did an internet search and guess what. Sonex (USA) - genuine VDO replacemet $35 ETB instruments - VDO but different connections (two instead of one) - 28 Anyone had the same experience? I would habe been happy to pay 50 for the "genuine article" but a markup of 500% - Skydrive (UK) you have got to be taking the piss ! Also whats the best way of remotely mounting the sensor so it isnt affected by vibration - I know this subject has been extensively covered before. Carl Pattinson G-LABS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Pattinson" Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:15 AM Subject: Europa-List: Lost message > > > Is it me or is there a problem with the europa list. > > I posted a message last night (about the cost of oil pressure senders) and > it has dissapeared somewhere (ie not made it on to the board). > > Just wondered - normally it only takes a couple of hours to arrive. The > other possibility is that my extremely efficient spam filter (Deathtospam) > has binned it. > > Carl Pattinson > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "R.C.Harrison" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 8:47 PM > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trailer caution > > >> >> >> Hi! Ferg >> Sorry to hear of your misfortune, you must be "gutted". Just for the >> record my wing carriers are made of spent conveyor belting lined with >> carpet attached by heavy duty upholstery glue. I don't tie the wings >> down but the carriers are about 12"/15" wide thereby spreading the load. >> However since my trailor weighs in, loaded, at about 3 tonnes and has a >> double axle linked weight transfer suspension nowt bounces! I do think >> though that to spread the load is very relevant since it reduces the psi >> point loading on the wing. >> They are also fixed laterally by the pip pins through the spar holes. >> Regards >> Bob Harrison G-PTAG >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle >> Sent: 21 May 2007 15:07 >> To: EUROPALIST >> Subject: Europa-List: Trailer caution >> >> >> Cheers, >> Yesterday, a buddy and I went to the airport and recovered the >> Europa wings on the trailer, from the hangar. The intent was to match >> same >> to fuselage for purposes of rationalising feed-through sites for wiring >> and >> odd items. By the way, these and the other surfaces were beautifully >> finished by a local firm to a tough mirror finish. >> All was normal on the 30-minute trek back home, and we unloaded >> same >> onto brackets built to set them vertically (nose-down) prior to >> installing >> them. When we began the sequence, I noticed a discolouration on the port >> leading edge and discovered a smashed leading edge about two inches in >> diameter, right on the leading edge - right down into the blue foam. >> This corresponded to the position of the wing in the rubber >> strap >> (lined with bubble-wrap). I noted that the pip-pin for the strap >> structure >> hinge release sits dead-centre under the strap. Sure enough the strap >> was >> pure (?) rubber and I could stretch it downward with just my fist. There >> is >> no question that, given the odd bump neatly handled by the trailer, >> evolved >> into a surge of the wing down until the pip-pin punctured the wing. >> This is going to lead to at least a week's delay, in rebuilding >> the >> wing and then driving it about 70 miles on country roads to the >> now-retired >> re-finisher. He took the tools/fixtures with him to his home airport. >> So this is a belated warning: >> (a) reposition the clamp-folding pip-pin to another suitable site away >> from >> the wing leading edge, and >> (b) replace the rubbery slings with some (preferably white) rubber with >> cloth reinforcement to resist excess stretching. I'm still going to line >> same with bubble wrap as I have saved acres of it and it works. >> I will be canvassing McMaster-Carr and similar sources for same. >> If >> you are light years ahead of me and already possess same, please advise. >> All advice gratefully accepted....... >> Ferg Kyle >> Classic mono 914 (ten years on 24 May) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:24 AM PST US From: "Peter Jeffers" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Oil Pressure Sender I had exactly the same experience with a VDO oil Px sender. 130 odd + Vat + delivery from Skydrive and $35 in the States incl delivery to UK. Oh and it arrived in less than a week!!! Pete Jeffers -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Pattinson Sent: 22 May 2007 08:45 Subject: Europa-List: Oil Pressure Sender With aapologies if this message gets posted twice - see below Well its finally happened, my oil pressure sender is giving up the ghost. It registers 85psi most of the time when the pressure should be nearer 50. So I thought time to replace and checked out Skydrives current price list 140 ****ing quid. When I recovered from the shock, I then did an internet search and guess what. Sonex (USA) - genuine VDO replacemet $35 ETB instruments - VDO but different connections (two instead of one) - 28 Anyone had the same experience? I would habe been happy to pay 50 for the "genuine article" but a markup of 500% - Skydrive (UK) you have got to be taking the piss ! Also whats the best way of remotely mounting the sensor so it isnt affected by vibration - I know this subject has been extensively covered before. Carl Pattinson G-LABS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Pattinson" Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:15 AM Subject: Europa-List: Lost message > > > Is it me or is there a problem with the europa list. > > I posted a message last night (about the cost of oil pressure senders) and > it has dissapeared somewhere (ie not made it on to the board). > > Just wondered - normally it only takes a couple of hours to arrive. The > other possibility is that my extremely efficient spam filter (Deathtospam) > has binned it. > > Carl Pattinson > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "R.C.Harrison" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 8:47 PM > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trailer caution > > >> >> >> Hi! Ferg >> Sorry to hear of your misfortune, you must be "gutted". Just for the >> record my wing carriers are made of spent conveyor belting lined with >> carpet attached by heavy duty upholstery glue. I don't tie the wings >> down but the carriers are about 12"/15" wide thereby spreading the load. >> However since my trailor weighs in, loaded, at about 3 tonnes and has a >> double axle linked weight transfer suspension nowt bounces! I do think >> though that to spread the load is very relevant since it reduces the psi >> point loading on the wing. >> They are also fixed laterally by the pip pins through the spar holes. >> Regards >> Bob Harrison G-PTAG >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle >> Sent: 21 May 2007 15:07 >> To: EUROPALIST >> Subject: Europa-List: Trailer caution >> >> >> Cheers, >> Yesterday, a buddy and I went to the airport and recovered the >> Europa wings on the trailer, from the hangar. The intent was to match >> same >> to fuselage for purposes of rationalising feed-through sites for wiring >> and >> odd items. By the way, these and the other surfaces were beautifully >> finished by a local firm to a tough mirror finish. >> All was normal on the 30-minute trek back home, and we unloaded >> same >> onto brackets built to set them vertically (nose-down) prior to >> installing >> them. When we began the sequence, I noticed a discolouration on the port >> leading edge and discovered a smashed leading edge about two inches in >> diameter, right on the leading edge - right down into the blue foam. >> This corresponded to the position of the wing in the rubber >> strap >> (lined with bubble-wrap). I noted that the pip-pin for the strap >> structure >> hinge release sits dead-centre under the strap. Sure enough the strap >> was >> pure (?) rubber and I could stretch it downward with just my fist. There >> is >> no question that, given the odd bump neatly handled by the trailer, >> evolved >> into a surge of the wing down until the pip-pin punctured the wing. >> This is going to lead to at least a week's delay, in rebuilding >> the >> wing and then driving it about 70 miles on country roads to the >> now-retired >> re-finisher. He took the tools/fixtures with him to his home airport. >> So this is a belated warning: >> (a) reposition the clamp-folding pip-pin to another suitable site away >> from >> the wing leading edge, and >> (b) replace the rubbery slings with some (preferably white) rubber with >> cloth reinforcement to resist excess stretching. I'm still going to line >> same with bubble wrap as I have saved acres of it and it works. >> I will be canvassing McMaster-Carr and similar sources for same. >> If >> you are light years ahead of me and already possess same, please advise. >> All advice gratefully accepted....... >> Ferg Kyle >> Classic mono 914 (ten years on 24 May) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > 07:54 07:54 - Special message from TalkTalk - Please help in the search for Madeleine McCann Madeleine's aunt, Philomena McCann, has devised an email poster as she fears that Madeleine may have been taken to Spain where the girl's disappearance has generated less attention. You can download the poster from here http://news.aol.co.uk/web-appeal-over-missing-madeleine/article/20070510063809990001. Anyone with information should contact the Portuguese police direct on 00 351 282 405 400 (international call rates apply) or contact Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:46 AM PST US From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil Pressure Sender I will certainly put Demon Tweaks on my list. The people I was referring to ETB are mainly bike and race car but they seem to have all the Guages and sensors we use in the Europa and all at very reasonable prices. http://www.etbinstruments.com/Sensors_ancillaries.htm The oil sender they stock is the two pin variety which I understand is the one reccommended for use with the flydat. Presumably all that is required is to earth one of the terminals - shouldnt be too difficult to figure with an ohmmeter. Alternately they may be able to supply the normal one with one connection. They list a single connection sensor but only up to 5bar pressure. The Rotax one needs 10bar. I will try and give them a ring. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Lawless" Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 9:29 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Oil Pressure Sender > > Carl > > Demon Tweaks (race and rally cars bits) sell the VDO gauge for 44, I > can't > spot the sender in the catalogue but they must have it to go with the > gauge. > Worth a call 01978 664466 or www.demon-tweeks.co.uk . I have bought all > sorts of odd bits from them and they are very slick with delivery. > > Regards > > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl > Pattinson > Sent: 22 May 2007 08:45 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Oil Pressure Sender > > > > With aapologies if this message gets posted twice - see below > > Well its finally happened, my oil pressure sender is giving up the ghost. > It > registers 85psi most of the time when the pressure should be nearer 50. > > So I thought time to replace and checked out Skydrives current price list > 140 ****ing quid. When I recovered from the shock, I then did an > internet > search and guess what. > > Sonex (USA) - genuine VDO replacemet $35 > ETB instruments - VDO but different connections (two instead of one) - 28 > > Anyone had the same experience? > > I would habe been happy to pay 50 for the "genuine article" but a markup > of > 500% - Skydrive (UK) you have got to be taking the piss ! > > Also whats the best way of remotely mounting the sensor so it isnt > affected > by vibration - I know this subject has been extensively covered before. > > Carl Pattinson > G-LABS > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carl Pattinson" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:15 AM > Subject: Europa-List: Lost message > > >> >> >> Is it me or is there a problem with the europa list. >> >> I posted a message last night (about the cost of oil pressure senders) >> and > >> it has dissapeared somewhere (ie not made it on to the board). >> >> Just wondered - normally it only takes a couple of hours to arrive. The >> other possibility is that my extremely efficient spam filter >> (Deathtospam) > >> has binned it. >> >> Carl Pattinson >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "R.C.Harrison" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 8:47 PM >> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trailer caution >> >> >>> >>> >>> Hi! Ferg >>> Sorry to hear of your misfortune, you must be "gutted". Just for the >>> record my wing carriers are made of spent conveyor belting lined with >>> carpet attached by heavy duty upholstery glue. I don't tie the wings >>> down but the carriers are about 12"/15" wide thereby spreading the load. >>> However since my trailor weighs in, loaded, at about 3 tonnes and has a >>> double axle linked weight transfer suspension nowt bounces! I do think >>> though that to spread the load is very relevant since it reduces the psi >>> point loading on the wing. >>> They are also fixed laterally by the pip pins through the spar holes. >>> Regards >>> Bob Harrison G-PTAG >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle >>> Sent: 21 May 2007 15:07 >>> To: EUROPALIST >>> Subject: Europa-List: Trailer caution >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Yesterday, a buddy and I went to the airport and recovered the >>> Europa wings on the trailer, from the hangar. The intent was to match >>> same >>> to fuselage for purposes of rationalising feed-through sites for wiring >>> and >>> odd items. By the way, these and the other surfaces were beautifully >>> finished by a local firm to a tough mirror finish. >>> All was normal on the 30-minute trek back home, and we unloaded >>> same >>> onto brackets built to set them vertically (nose-down) prior to >>> installing >>> them. When we began the sequence, I noticed a discolouration on the port >>> leading edge and discovered a smashed leading edge about two inches in >>> diameter, right on the leading edge - right down into the blue foam. >>> This corresponded to the position of the wing in the rubber >>> strap >>> (lined with bubble-wrap). I noted that the pip-pin for the strap >>> structure >>> hinge release sits dead-centre under the strap. Sure enough the strap >>> was >>> pure (?) rubber and I could stretch it downward with just my fist. There >>> is >>> no question that, given the odd bump neatly handled by the trailer, >>> evolved >>> into a surge of the wing down until the pip-pin punctured the wing. >>> This is going to lead to at least a week's delay, in rebuilding >>> the >>> wing and then driving it about 70 miles on country roads to the >>> now-retired >>> re-finisher. He took the tools/fixtures with him to his home airport. >>> So this is a belated warning: >>> (a) reposition the clamp-folding pip-pin to another suitable site away >>> from >>> the wing leading edge, and >>> (b) replace the rubbery slings with some (preferably white) rubber with >>> cloth reinforcement to resist excess stretching. I'm still going to line >>> same with bubble wrap as I have saved acres of it and it works. >>> I will be canvassing McMaster-Carr and similar sources for same. >>> If >>> you are light years ahead of me and already possess same, please advise. >>> All advice gratefully accepted....... >>> Ferg Kyle >>> Classic mono 914 (ten years on 24 May) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:15:26 AM PST US From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil Pressure Sender Correcton to the last message. Just spoken to ETB and the sender body is earth. The two terminals are for the pressure guage and the other a warning light - presumably shorts to earth when there is no oil pressure. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Pattinson" Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 9:52 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil Pressure Sender > > > I will certainly put Demon Tweaks on my list. > > The people I was referring to ETB are mainly bike and race car but they > seem to have all the Guages and sensors we use in the Europa and all at > very reasonable prices. > > http://www.etbinstruments.com/Sensors_ancillaries.htm > > The oil sender they stock is the two pin variety which I understand is the > one reccommended for use with the flydat. Presumably all that is required > is to earth one of the terminals - shouldnt be too difficult to figure > with an ohmmeter. > > Alternately they may be able to supply the normal one with one connection. > They list a single connection sensor but only up to 5bar pressure. The > Rotax one needs 10bar. > > I will try and give them a ring. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pete Lawless" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 9:29 AM > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Oil Pressure Sender > > >> >> Carl >> >> Demon Tweaks (race and rally cars bits) sell the VDO gauge for 44, I >> can't >> spot the sender in the catalogue but they must have it to go with the >> gauge. >> Worth a call 01978 664466 or www.demon-tweeks.co.uk . I have bought all >> sorts of odd bits from them and they are very slick with delivery. >> >> Regards >> >> Pete >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl >> Pattinson >> Sent: 22 May 2007 08:45 >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Europa-List: Oil Pressure Sender >> >> >> >> With aapologies if this message gets posted twice - see below >> >> Well its finally happened, my oil pressure sender is giving up the ghost. >> It >> registers 85psi most of the time when the pressure should be nearer 50. >> >> So I thought time to replace and checked out Skydrives current price list >> 140 ****ing quid. When I recovered from the shock, I then did an >> internet >> search and guess what. >> >> Sonex (USA) - genuine VDO replacemet $35 >> ETB instruments - VDO but different connections (two instead of one) - >> 28 >> >> Anyone had the same experience? >> >> I would habe been happy to pay 50 for the "genuine article" but a markup >> of >> 500% - Skydrive (UK) you have got to be taking the piss ! >> >> Also whats the best way of remotely mounting the sensor so it isnt >> affected >> by vibration - I know this subject has been extensively covered before. >> >> Carl Pattinson >> G-LABS >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Carl Pattinson" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:15 AM >> Subject: Europa-List: Lost message >> >> >>> >>> >>> Is it me or is there a problem with the europa list. >>> >>> I posted a message last night (about the cost of oil pressure senders) >>> and >> >>> it has dissapeared somewhere (ie not made it on to the board). >>> >>> Just wondered - normally it only takes a couple of hours to arrive. The >>> other possibility is that my extremely efficient spam filter >>> (Deathtospam) >> >>> has binned it. >>> >>> Carl Pattinson >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "R.C.Harrison" >>> To: >>> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 8:47 PM >>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trailer caution >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi! Ferg >>>> Sorry to hear of your misfortune, you must be "gutted". Just for the >>>> record my wing carriers are made of spent conveyor belting lined with >>>> carpet attached by heavy duty upholstery glue. I don't tie the wings >>>> down but the carriers are about 12"/15" wide thereby spreading the >>>> load. >>>> However since my trailor weighs in, loaded, at about 3 tonnes and has a >>>> double axle linked weight transfer suspension nowt bounces! I do think >>>> though that to spread the load is very relevant since it reduces the >>>> psi >>>> point loading on the wing. >>>> They are also fixed laterally by the pip pins through the spar holes. >>>> Regards >>>> Bob Harrison G-PTAG >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >>>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus >>>> Kyle >>>> Sent: 21 May 2007 15:07 >>>> To: EUROPALIST >>>> Subject: Europa-List: Trailer caution >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Yesterday, a buddy and I went to the airport and recovered the >>>> Europa wings on the trailer, from the hangar. The intent was to match >>>> same >>>> to fuselage for purposes of rationalising feed-through sites for wiring >>>> and >>>> odd items. By the way, these and the other surfaces were beautifully >>>> finished by a local firm to a tough mirror finish. >>>> All was normal on the 30-minute trek back home, and we unloaded >>>> same >>>> onto brackets built to set them vertically (nose-down) prior to >>>> installing >>>> them. When we began the sequence, I noticed a discolouration on the >>>> port >>>> leading edge and discovered a smashed leading edge about two inches in >>>> diameter, right on the leading edge - right down into the blue foam. >>>> This corresponded to the position of the wing in the rubber >>>> strap >>>> (lined with bubble-wrap). I noted that the pip-pin for the strap >>>> structure >>>> hinge release sits dead-centre under the strap. Sure enough the strap >>>> was >>>> pure (?) rubber and I could stretch it downward with just my fist. >>>> There >>>> is >>>> no question that, given the odd bump neatly handled by the trailer, >>>> evolved >>>> into a surge of the wing down until the pip-pin punctured the wing. >>>> This is going to lead to at least a week's delay, in rebuilding >>>> the >>>> wing and then driving it about 70 miles on country roads to the >>>> now-retired >>>> re-finisher. He took the tools/fixtures with him to his home airport. >>>> So this is a belated warning: >>>> (a) reposition the clamp-folding pip-pin to another suitable site away >>>> from >>>> the wing leading edge, and >>>> (b) replace the rubbery slings with some (preferably white) rubber with >>>> cloth reinforcement to resist excess stretching. I'm still going to >>>> line >>>> same with bubble wrap as I have saved acres of it and it works. >>>> I will be canvassing McMaster-Carr and similar sources for same. >>>> If >>>> you are light years ahead of me and already possess same, please >>>> advise. >>>> All advice gratefully accepted....... >>>> Ferg Kyle >>>> Classic mono 914 (ten years on 24 May) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and >> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is >> believed to be clean. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:17:52 AM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Oil Pressure Sender Hi Carl Demon listed both low and high range VDO gauges in the catalogue and I noticed after I sent the first mail they said they held a lot of VDO bits not listed and to call with your requirements. Let me know what you manage to get - if the cost is sensible I may well get one in as a spare. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Pattinson Sent: 22 May 2007 09:53 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil Pressure Sender I will certainly put Demon Tweaks on my list. The people I was referring to ETB are mainly bike and race car but they seem to have all the Guages and sensors we use in the Europa and all at very reasonable prices. http://www.etbinstruments.com/Sensors_ancillaries.htm The oil sender they stock is the two pin variety which I understand is the one reccommended for use with the flydat. Presumably all that is required is to earth one of the terminals - shouldnt be too difficult to figure with an ohmmeter. Alternately they may be able to supply the normal one with one connection. They list a single connection sensor but only up to 5bar pressure. The Rotax one needs 10bar. I will try and give them a ring. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Lawless" Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 9:29 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Oil Pressure Sender > > Carl > > Demon Tweaks (race and rally cars bits) sell the VDO gauge for 44, I > can't > spot the sender in the catalogue but they must have it to go with the > gauge. > Worth a call 01978 664466 or www.demon-tweeks.co.uk . I have bought all > sorts of odd bits from them and they are very slick with delivery. > > Regards > > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl > Pattinson > Sent: 22 May 2007 08:45 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Oil Pressure Sender > > > > With aapologies if this message gets posted twice - see below > > Well its finally happened, my oil pressure sender is giving up the ghost. > It > registers 85psi most of the time when the pressure should be nearer 50. > > So I thought time to replace and checked out Skydrives current price list > 140 ****ing quid. When I recovered from the shock, I then did an > internet > search and guess what. > > Sonex (USA) - genuine VDO replacemet $35 > ETB instruments - VDO but different connections (two instead of one) - 28 > > Anyone had the same experience? > > I would habe been happy to pay 50 for the "genuine article" but a markup > of > 500% - Skydrive (UK) you have got to be taking the piss ! > > Also whats the best way of remotely mounting the sensor so it isnt > affected > by vibration - I know this subject has been extensively covered before. > > Carl Pattinson > G-LABS > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carl Pattinson" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:15 AM > Subject: Europa-List: Lost message > > >> >> >> Is it me or is there a problem with the europa list. >> >> I posted a message last night (about the cost of oil pressure senders) >> and > >> it has dissapeared somewhere (ie not made it on to the board). >> >> Just wondered - normally it only takes a couple of hours to arrive. The >> other possibility is that my extremely efficient spam filter >> (Deathtospam) > >> has binned it. >> >> Carl Pattinson >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "R.C.Harrison" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 8:47 PM >> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trailer caution >> >> >>> >>> >>> Hi! Ferg >>> Sorry to hear of your misfortune, you must be "gutted". Just for the >>> record my wing carriers are made of spent conveyor belting lined with >>> carpet attached by heavy duty upholstery glue. I don't tie the wings >>> down but the carriers are about 12"/15" wide thereby spreading the load. >>> However since my trailor weighs in, loaded, at about 3 tonnes and has a >>> double axle linked weight transfer suspension nowt bounces! I do think >>> though that to spread the load is very relevant since it reduces the psi >>> point loading on the wing. >>> They are also fixed laterally by the pip pins through the spar holes. >>> Regards >>> Bob Harrison G-PTAG >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle >>> Sent: 21 May 2007 15:07 >>> To: EUROPALIST >>> Subject: Europa-List: Trailer caution >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Yesterday, a buddy and I went to the airport and recovered the >>> Europa wings on the trailer, from the hangar. The intent was to match >>> same >>> to fuselage for purposes of rationalising feed-through sites for wiring >>> and >>> odd items. By the way, these and the other surfaces were beautifully >>> finished by a local firm to a tough mirror finish. >>> All was normal on the 30-minute trek back home, and we unloaded >>> same >>> onto brackets built to set them vertically (nose-down) prior to >>> installing >>> them. When we began the sequence, I noticed a discolouration on the port >>> leading edge and discovered a smashed leading edge about two inches in >>> diameter, right on the leading edge - right down into the blue foam. >>> This corresponded to the position of the wing in the rubber >>> strap >>> (lined with bubble-wrap). I noted that the pip-pin for the strap >>> structure >>> hinge release sits dead-centre under the strap. Sure enough the strap >>> was >>> pure (?) rubber and I could stretch it downward with just my fist. There >>> is >>> no question that, given the odd bump neatly handled by the trailer, >>> evolved >>> into a surge of the wing down until the pip-pin punctured the wing. >>> This is going to lead to at least a week's delay, in rebuilding >>> the >>> wing and then driving it about 70 miles on country roads to the >>> now-retired >>> re-finisher. He took the tools/fixtures with him to his home airport. >>> So this is a belated warning: >>> (a) reposition the clamp-folding pip-pin to another suitable site away >>> from >>> the wing leading edge, and >>> (b) replace the rubbery slings with some (preferably white) rubber with >>> cloth reinforcement to resist excess stretching. I'm still going to line >>> same with bubble wrap as I have saved acres of it and it works. >>> I will be canvassing McMaster-Carr and similar sources for same. >>> If >>> you are light years ahead of me and already possess same, please advise. >>> All advice gratefully accepted....... >>> Ferg Kyle >>> Classic mono 914 (ten years on 24 May) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:15 AM PST US From: "peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil Pressure Sender Paul Sistern has them on his website for 30 - 50 depending on which one you want: www.partsforaircraft.co.uk/ You could get on from Spruce but by the time you've paid postage etc, you may as well buy it from Paul and get it a lot quicker. Peter ___________________________________________________________ Tiscali Broadband only 9.99 a month for your first 3 months! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:49 AM PST US From: "Jim Brown" Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Turbine clearance Ron The turbo bearings are lubricated by engine oil under pressure when engine is running. I suspect that the bearings, since the engine is new, do not have any oil in them. I think that the bearing clearances will tighten up once the engine is run. If you have the 914 maintenance manual, you will find the wear limits on the turbo in the back of the manual. Jim Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 8:15 PM Subject: Europa-List: 914 Turbine clearance > > Temporarily hung 914 for the first time this past weekend. > > Turned crank a few times to keep things lubed. > > I took the cap off the cold air side of the turbo to feel a new turbo. In > and out motion on the turbine was only a few thousands, but up and down > motion was ~.016" at the turbine > > Pushing hard I can get the turbine to hit the housing. > > If 914 owners don't mind, please measure their up and down motion and if > you can get the turbine to hit the housing and post results. > > Another request is for axial and radial limits for the Rotax 914 Turbo if > someone knows. > > In all fairness up and down motion should be measured on the shaft between > the hot and cold bearing, pushing just on the cold side, I suspect the > cantilevered leverage is pushing the hot side of the shaft in the opposite > direction. That said if all others have half what I do and can't get > turbine to hit housing, I think I may have a problem and further > investigation required. > > My 1983 Volvo Turbo had a Garrett turbo, oil cooled only, the turbine > looked very similar and after many miles had less play than my new 914. > Could not get turbine to hit housing. I have a 1992 745 Volvo turbo with > 255K miles and a Mitsubishi water cooled turbo and play is way less than > 1/2 of the 914. Can't get the turbine to hit the housing. > > Thx. > Ron Parigoris > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:54 AM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lost message Carl, I find "lost messages" when posting to the list happen from time to time, perhaps 1 in 20 or 30 messages for me. Paul ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lost message From: "Jos Okhuijsen" Hi Paul, Should not happen and should not be allowed to happen. Did you ask for a trace? Regards, Jos Okhuijsen -- workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane http://www.europaowners.org/kit600 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Outrigger legs From: Fred Klein On Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 03:20 PM, Andrew Sarangan wrote: > I also noticed that the nylon legs are preventing my flaps from fully > retracting. The upper limit of the flap movement seems to be limited by > the nylon legs coming in contact with the FL3 plate, and this is > slightly short of the condition required to get the flap and aileron > perfectly aligned. Anyone else notice this? > > One thought was to locally shave the nylon legs where the FL3 is coming > in contact. All I would need is another 3mm of travel at the FL3, which > would translate into something larger at the trailing edge of the flap. Andrew, The condition you describe is not something I've encountered nor do I recall any postings by others which might indicate this is a common problem. Before you start shaving things...if I was in your shoes...I would consider checking all the elements which contribute to the geometry in question; e.g., I would set the outrigger mechanism aside and verify that the flap positioning is correct, the gap between wing closeout and flap LE is constant, and reposition the large template over the top of the wing. I would de-mount the flaps, and pull out the template used to position the FL plates. I would check the template itself for correct dimensions and angles. Something seems amiss to generate the contact you describe. Hope this helps, Fred ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:31:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trailer caution From: "Ferg Kyle" Just a quick note to those who kindly replied to my message about the punched wing leading edge - [i]Thank you[/i]. It's always an advantage to hear from others and get the true word. This is first time I've used this form of reply so hope it works Ferg A064 Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:03 PM PST US From: "Erich Trombley" Subject: Europa-List: Trailer caution Ferg, I had the same happen to me last year, only I have the foam inserts not the rubber sling. On a long haul from the airport to the house (at nigh t) I was unaware that the foam had split allowing the wing to slide down and make contact. Very frustrating. Mine wings had been painted for t wo years, however, I had been fortunate up to that point in that the pai nt was in pristine condition. So, I definitely feel your pain. I have since made a new wing support for the trailer which is 12" wide, thus sp reading out the load. Good luck Erich Trombley" N28ET Classic Mono 914 Subject: Europa-List: Trailer caution Cheers, Yesterday, a buddy and I went to the airport and recovered the Europa wings on the trailer, from the hangar. The intent was to match sa me to fuselage for purposes of rationalising feed-through sites for wiring and odd items. By the way, these and the other surfaces were beautifully finished by a local firm to a tough mirror finish. All was normal on the 30-minute trek back home, and we unloaded same onto brackets built to set them vertically (nose-down) prior to installi ng them. When we began the sequence, I noticed a discolouration on the port leading edge and discovered a smashed leading edge about two inches in diameter, right on the leading edge - right down into the blue foam. This corresponded to the position of the wing in the rubber strap (lined with bubble-wrap). I noted that the pip-pin for the strap structu re hinge release sits dead-centre under the strap. Sure enough the strap wa s pure (?) rubber and I could stretch it downward with just my fist. There is no question that, given the odd bump neatly handled by the trailer, evol ved into a surge of the wing down until the pip-pin punctured the wing. This is going to lead to at least a week's delay, in rebuilding the wing and then driving it about 70 miles on country roads to the now-reti red re-finisher. He took the tools/fixtures with him to his home airport. So this is a belated warning: (a) reposition the clamp-folding pip-pin to another suitable site away f rom the wing leading edge, and (b) replace the rubbery slings with some (preferably white) rubber with cloth reinforcement to resist excess stretching. I'm still going to line same with bubble wrap as I have saved acres of it and it works. I will be canvassing McMaster-Carr and similar sources for same. If you are light years ahead of me and already possess same, please advise. All advice gratefully accepted....... Ferg Kyle Classic mono 914 (ten years on 24 May)

Ferg,

I had the same happen to me last year, only I have the foam inserts n ot the rubber sling.  On a long haul from the airport to the house (at night) I was unaware that the foam had split allowing the wing to sl ide down and make contact.  Very frustrating.  Mine wings had been painted for two years, however, I had been fortunate up to tha t point in that the paint was in pristine condition.  So, I definit ely feel your pain.  I have since made a new wing support for the t railer which is 12" wide, thus spreading out the load.  Good luck

Erich Trombley"
N28ET Classic Mono 914

 


Subject: Europa-List: Trailer caution


C heers,
Yesterday, a buddy and I went to  the airport and recovered the
Europa w ings on the trailer, from the hangar.  ;The intent was to match same
to fusela ge for purposes of rationalising feed-through&n bsp;sites for wiring and
odd items. By  the way, these and the other surfaces  ;were beautifully
finished by a local firm&n bsp;to a tough mirror finish.
All was n ormal on the 30-minute trek back home,&nbs p;and we unloaded same
onto brackets built&n bsp;to set them vertically (nose-down) prior&nb sp;to installing
them. When we began the&nbs p;sequence, I noticed a discolouration on  the port
leading edge and discovered a  smashed leading edge about two inches indiameter, right on the leading edge -&nb sp;right down into the blue foam.
This  corresponded to the position of the wing&n bsp;in the rubber strap
(lined with bubble-w rap). I noted that the pip-pin for th e strap structure
hinge release sits dead-ce ntre under the strap. Sure enough the  ;strap was
pure (?) rubber and I could& nbsp;stretch it downward with just my fist . There is
no question that, given the& nbsp;odd bump neatly handled by the traile r, evolved
into a surge of the wing&nbs p;down until the pip-pin punctured the win g.
This is going to lead to at lea st a week's delay, in rebuilding the
wi ng and then driving it about 70 miles  on country roads to the now-retired
re -finisher. He took the tools/fixtures with  ;him to his home airport.
So this is&nb sp;a belated warning:
(a) reposition the cla mp-folding pip-pin to another suitable site&nbs p;away from
the wing leading edge, and 
(b) replace the rubbery slings with so me (preferably white) rubber with
cloth rein forcement to resist excess stretching. I'm  ;still going to line
same with bubble w rap as I have saved acres of it  and it works. 
I will be canvassing&nbs p;McMaster-Carr and similar sources for same.&n bsp;If
you are light years ahead of me& nbsp;and already possess same, please advise.All advice gratefully accepted.......
Ferg Kyle
Classic mono 914 (ten years on 24  ;May)




________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:12:28 PM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: trailer wing support profile. Hi Keith I did not like those original rubber straps and removed them. I made new supporters just like you described them. They are 2" /50 mm thick wooden blocks (birch plywood board) and I shaped them by CNC cutter. They match well to the wing section and between there are very soft self adhesive stuf, douple layers. If you like to get the drawing, please contact me direct. Because the pip pins let the supporters to move a bit, I secure supporters to the trailer also by extra 13 mm / =BD" bolt & nut. There are still some movements between wings and trailer supporters - to prevent any damages in my first class wing surfaces I cover the wings by kitchen film before dropping them to the trailer. The spars are secured by clamps tightened by bolts - not only by pip - pins like original factory trailer. I do not wanna get any damages to the spars=B4main pip pin holes. I have also some other modifications like douple axle for security reasons. Look at the pics. The riskiest part to operate Europa in my case has been so far when pushing it to the trailer: - I have almost destroyed my rudder by hitting it to the back door of my van=B4s (it was open) - main wheel gate opened when towing the trailer (I was lucky Europa did not dropped to the road because it was fixed by bolts in the tail wheel and it was not on it=B4s side because I have extra side supporters). To prevent this situation meet me again I connected those turnbuckles keeping gate up together by a strong rubber string with hooks which prevent them to open spontaneously. - tail wheel dropped from the rail and transponder /DME antenna went broken - tail wheel dropped yesterday again from the rail and Dynon=B4s OAT sensor went broken and penetrated through Europas stomach (so I have a similar extra hole in my Europa=B4s fuselage as Ferg Kyle has his wing=B4s leading edge!) Personally I think the only almost safe way to carry Europa on the roads is to carry it in a big enough lorry /truck with closed coach. No towing at all. Only flying... Raimo ==== Raimo M W Toivio OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417, 3h42min and 12 landings in the log book OH-CVK C172 Skyhawk, reinterioring completed, engine will be overhauled also for surprise OH-BLL Beechcraft C45, w radial engines (grounded for ever) 37500 Lempaala Finland tel + 358 3 3753 777 fax + 358 3 3753 100 gsm + 358 40 590 1450 raimo.toivio@rwm.fi www.rwm.fi ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Hickling To: Eurpoa List Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:41 AM Subject: Europa-List: trailer wing support profile. Does anyone have a wing profile forward of the spar at the position of the wing support on the factory trailer? On my drawing this is 2 metres from the root spar pin bush. If anyone has one they could email or post to me I would be very grateful and it would save a lot of work trying to transcribe it from the wing. I need it to get the trailer wing supports made. Keith Hickling, New Zealand. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:15 PM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: Europa-List: FW: Mode S Transponders Hi All Having been away in the U.S. for the last 6 months I am somewhat behind the curve with regard to the Mode S situation. Can anyone tell me if I actually need to fit this piece of kit right now or not? I have tried reading the CAA website, but quite frankly I am even more confused. I want to fly both VFR and IFR so can someone please help Do I need it or not Many Thanks Alan ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:42 PM PST US From: "Steve Crimm" Subject: RE: Europa-List: trailer wing support profile. Ramio, Great pictures, I am attaching a couple of pics showing the following: Ramp I made to lessen the angle on the ramp so one person can easily push the A/C into the wheel cradle. An eye bolt that I use to secure the tail to the trailer as well as a tie down point for the airframe. This prevents it from going forward, just in case. Trailer safety chains. The wing support straps that I made to hold the wing. Now I have some questions. The wheel ramp attachment bar, where did it come from? Was it with the trailer or did you make it. Did the mud guards come with the trailer or did you add them. As you can see I don't any. Thanks, Steve N42AH Still for sale www.stephenscott.com/Europa -- ____________________________________________________________ Steve Crimm - BIT, CDIA+, OCSA, OCWA Stephen Scott & Associates, Inc. Your Exclusive Source for Automated Data Capture Solutions Email: steve.crimm@stephenscott.com Web Site: www.stephenscott.com Phone: 678-461-7957 Fax 678-461-7958 "The agony of poor service lasts much longer than the thrill of low price" ____________________________________________________________ Confidentiality Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this information, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please reply to the sender immediately and delete the message from your computer. Thank You _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 18:15 Subject: Re: Europa-List: trailer wing support profile. Hi Keith I did not like those original rubber straps and removed them. I made new supporters just like you described them. They are 2" /50 mm thick wooden blocks (birch plywood board) and I shaped them by CNC cutter. They match well to the wing section and between there are very soft self adhesive stuf, douple layers. If you like to get the drawing, please contact me direct. Because the pip pins let the supporters to move a bit, I secure supporters to the trailer also by extra 13 mm / =BD" bolt & nut. There are still some movements between wings and trailer supporters - to prevent any damages in my first class wing surfaces I cover the wings by kitchen film before dropping them to the trailer. The spars are secured by clamps tightened by bolts - not only by pip - pins like original factory trailer. I do not wanna get any damages to the spars=B4main pip pin holes. I have also some other modifications like douple axle for security reasons. Look at the pics. The riskiest part to operate Europa in my case has been so far when pushing it to the trailer: - I have almost destroyed my rudder by hitting it to the back door of my van=B4s (it was open) - main wheel gate opened when towing the trailer (I was lucky Europa did not dropped to the road because it was fixed by bolts in the tail wheel and it was not on it=B4s side because I have extra side supporters). To prevent this situation meet me again I connected those turnbuckles keeping gate up together by a strong rubber string with hooks which prevent them to open spontaneously. - tail wheel dropped from the rail and transponder /DME antenna went broken - tail wheel dropped yesterday again from the rail and Dynon=B4s OAT sensor went broken and penetrated through Europas stomach (so I have a similar extra hole in my Europa=B4s fuselage as Ferg Kyle has his wing=B4s leading edge!) Personally I think the only almost safe way to carry Europa on the roads is to carry it in a big enough lorry /truck with closed coach. No towing at all. Only flying... Raimo ==== Raimo M W Toivio OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417, 3h42min and 12 landings in the log book OH-CVK C172 Skyhawk, reinterioring completed, engine will be overhauled also for surprise OH-BLL Beechcraft C45, w radial engines (grounded for ever) 37500 Lempaala Finland tel + 358 3 3753 777 fax + 358 3 3753 100 gsm + 358 40 590 1450 raimo.toivio@rwm.fi www.rwm.fi ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Hickling Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:41 AM Subject: Europa-List: trailer wing support profile. Does anyone have a wing profile forward of the spar at the position of the wing support on the factory trailer? On my drawing this is 2 metres from the root spar pin bush. If anyone has one they could email or post to me I would be very grateful and it would save a lot of work trying to transcribe it from the wing. I need it to get the trailer wing supports made. Keith Hickling, New Zealand. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:51 PM PST US From: "Richard Schultz" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trailer caution The link below will give you some photos of a wing support and holder that I have used. I have used it several times to carry the aircraft in excess of 1000 miles without so much as a hint of damage. I work in the oil and gas industry we do a lot of work with vibration dampening. I asked the guys that run the shake tables about a design to prevent road damage to my wing and reduce stress on both the leading edge and spar. The outcome was a firm blocking system clamping down on the spar with the bell cranks tight up against and additionally a bungee cord holding the aileron bell crank to the hold down. The wing tip is supported by two layers of floor carpet. The first layer is held in place with a metal clamp attached to another bungee cord running over a boat roller and designed to support and hold the wing. A second layer of carpet is placed loose over the first and a plastic bin liner is added to the wing skin to prevent the carpet from scratching the paint. It ends up that the carpet fibers are a really great vibration damper. I use the 3m Blue painters tape to hold the plastic liner in place and also to wrap around the flap hinges to prevent the flaps from moving or bouncing up and down. http://home.houston.rr.com/n262ae/trailer.htm Rich Schultz N262AE 122 hours and the most fun I have ever had. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.