Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:27 AM - Re: What's up with the cost of 914? (Jos Okhuijsen)
2. 02:39 AM - Re: William & Paul (K.Pilcher)
3. 04:08 AM - Re: What's up with the cost of 914? (Graham Singleton)
4. 06:11 AM - CHT sensors and temperatures, was costs 914 (Jos Okhuijsen)
5. 07:46 AM - What's up with the cost of the 914? (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
6. 09:18 AM - Re: What's up with the cost of 914? (Gary Leinberger)
7. 09:57 AM - Re: What's up with the cost of 914? (glenn crowder)
8. 10:35 AM - Re: What's up with the cost of 914? (Alexander Kaarsberg)
9. 02:44 PM - Re: William and Paul (karelvranken)
10. 03:51 PM - Re: Woodcomp propeller controls (Bill & Sue)
11. 04:14 PM - Re: What's up with the cost of 914? (Paul McAllister)
12. 04:46 PM - Re: What's up with the cost of 914? (Graham Singleton)
13. 04:54 PM - Re: Re: Woodcomp propeller controls (Graham Singleton)
14. 05:02 PM - Re: What's up with the cost of 914? (Graham Singleton)
15. 05:56 PM - Re: What's up with the cost of 914? (Andrew Sarangan)
16. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: Woodcomp propeller controls (Karl Heindl)
17. 06:37 PM - Test (Troy Maynor)
18. 06:50 PM - Re: William and Paul (europaman)
19. 08:02 PM - Re: What's up with the cost of 914? (Paul McAllister)
20. 08:06 PM - Re: What's up with the cost of 914? (Paul McAllister)
21. 08:10 PM - Re: What's up with the cost of 914? (Paul McAllister)
22. 11:19 PM - Re: What's up with the cost of 914? (Jos Okhuijsen)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: What's up with the cost of 914? |
Hi Paul,
Number 20 for you: Mine came in at 904 lbs. 914, Woodcomp CS, and the
error was leather upholstery. Need some insolation here! Although at the
moment, with 27 C it's too hot for taxi testing :-)
What rpm and map are you reading at that speed and alitude?
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
http://www.europaowners.org/kit600
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Europa-List:William & Paul |
Hi Laura,
My heart goes out to you and both families.
Kevin Pilcher ( G-OKEV )
----- Original Message -----
From: Laura Farmer
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 7:49 AM
Subject: Europa-List: William and Paul
Hello all,
May I introduce myself as Paul Sweeting's fiance. On behalf of his
family I would like to thank every one of you for your messages of
condolence and support. They have touched us deeply and reinforced the
message that Paul and William were very well liked and highly thought
of. I personally have found great comfort in them, and I felt I needed
to thank you personally. I have also spoken to a few of you on the phone
and this has helped too - I know it is what Paul would have wanted, he
always wanted me to be involved with his flying and in particular the
Europa Club.
I was fortunate to attend your "Late Christmas Dinner" at Bosworth in
January, and meet at least a few of you. We had a thouroughly enjoyable
weekend. More recently we met up with Paddy, Alastair, another gentleman
I'm sorry I can't remember the name of, and of course William at a DOTH
at my local airport Swansea. It was great to catch up with his friends,
and "talk planes" again.
As Dave Bosomworth has said, Paul contacted him last week to ask his
advice about a Europa he was thinking of buying. Since Paul had met me
last year we had been too busy having fun to progress any further on the
construction of his own kit, and he had reached a point where he was
desperate to own his own plane and take me down to France for lunch !
Every fine day he'd say " It's a great day for flying"... "When can I
buy my plane?, when can I buy my plane?" like a child.
Paul hadn't flown since September, and asked William if he was going
on any "jollies" to take him along with him. William of course did, and
Paul was very excited and looking forward to their trip together. His
family and myself are of course devastated, but we take some comfort
from the fact that Paul passed away doing what he loved. Flying was, as
it probably is to most of you, his passion, and he was an extremely
happy man when he left us.
Incidentally, we are meeting with Diana and her family this evening. I
do not have a date for Paul's funeral as yet, but will post it on here
as soon as I have it. If any of you would like to make contact with me
please do so, it is what Paul would have wanted, he always wanted me to
be as "sociable" as him.
Regards,
Laura Farmer.
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: What's up with the cost of 914? |
Jos
you need to copy Pauls radiator ducting, make sure no air can get round
the sides of the radiators and that the wide part of the prop blades
passes over the inlet {{;-)
Graham
Jos Okhuijsen wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> Number 20 for you: Mine came in at 904 lbs. 914, Woodcomp CS, and the
> error was leather upholstery. Need some insolation here! Although at
> the moment, with 27 C it's too hot for taxi testing :-)
> What rpm and map are you reading at that speed and alitude?
>
> Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
>
> http://www.europaowners.org/kit600
>
>
>
>
>
--
Graham Singleton
Tel: +441629820187
Mob: +447739582005
Message 4
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Subject: | CHT sensors and temperatures, was costs 914 |
Hi Graham,
Yes, i did close the gaps, although it could be done tighter. The problem
turned out to be no problem. I have 4 x CHT and 4 x EGT. The CHT sensors i
was monitoring are of the ring terminal type, and not the Rotax supplied
sensors. This morning i measured the CHT of the hottest cylinder the Rotax
way, and i can't get it over 95 C. The ring terminal CHT sensor then
reports 137 C and reacts much faster. The Rotax CHT sensor seems to
measure the cooling liquid temperature, it rises after shutdown, while the
ring type sensor drops immediately. So i have to apply a correction
factor. After the promised software upgrade of the Dynon 180 comes
available, I will be able to see both ways of measuring CHT.
Regards
--
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http://www.europaowners.org/kit600
Message 5
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Subject: | What's up with the cost of the 914? |
In a message dated 6/6/2007 2:58:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
europa-list@matronics.com writes:
I typically fly 2 legs of 400 nm in the 8000 ~ 12,000'
> feet range. At this altitude I see 148 knots TAS with a fuel burn of
> 5.1 ~ 5.3 US gallons per hour.
Greetings team,
On a recent 758 nm cross country I saw a TAS of 146 kts at 9500' burning 4.6
gph with my Jab 3300. This was with my wife Susan and myself on board, along
with about 60 lbs of baggage. I'm running a ground adjustable Sensenich
hollow carbon prop set to a mid range cruise pitch, spinning at 2850 RPM in
cruise flight. My bird is sealed, i.e., has positive seals on the rudder, ailerons
and trim tabs, along with flap gap seals. I should also note that
considerable time and attention was paid to the paint and mine has been color
sanded to
less than.004" waviness throughout. I have the "economy cruise" needle jet
and proprietary Jabiru "stepped" needle set up installed in the Bing carby
that is recommended by the Jabiru factory. N245E is a trigear and the empty
weight came in at 909 lbs including "standard" items that would normally be on
board such as headsets, a small tool kit, a quart of oil, fire extinguisher,
charts, knee board, CO monitor, etc. The "empty" empty weight is closer to
895lbs, and includes Mod 70 and Mod 71. I used an Odyssey battery and it is
mounted to the starboard footwell on the firewall. I did add 6 lbs of lead to
the tail to meet the narrow C of G range for the test period as suggested by
Europa, but that counterweight has since been removed.
Now, with just over 100 hours on N245E, IMHO, I firmly believe the Jabiru
3300 is an excellent choice for the Europa provided that it is coupled with the
Suncoast Sportplanes cowl set. I cannot speak for other cowl sets. I have
flown 912S powered Europa's, both mono and trigear, and one 914 powered mono
with glider wings, and in comparison, I can't detect any degradation in
handling due to the few extra pounds the Jab added. However, I can appreciate
the
1800 fpm climb rate I see regularly along with the smoothness of the Jab when
compared to the 912S. Just so everybody will know I'm not here to trash
Rotax, I also own an Aeromot AMT200S Super Ximango motorglider with a certified
912S swinging a Hoffman 3 position prop. Thus, I have working familiarity with
both engines and regularly compare the two. Both are fine engines and the
912S has a slight advantage in fuel economy, (as shown in a recent 1150 nm trip
in the Ximango) but, if given the choice between the Rotax 912S and the
Jabiru 3300, for the money, the simplicity, the smoothness in running and the
outstanding performance, I'd pick the Jabiru again over the 912S for my Europa
without any hesitation or reservation whatsoever.
One thing is certain: I can hardly contain myself until Airmaster releases
the new hub for the Sensenich blades at Oshkosh!
I wish the Brussels mob were as prudent as you suggest. We pay very high
taxes whereas perhaps your mob just print extra dollars. The result is
similar
You are partly correct, Graham. FWIW, here at the 'Possum Werks we watch
exchange rates daily between the Euro and the Dollar because we buy a lot of
glider parts, cloth, resin, gel coat, etc, from various suppliers and glider
manufacturers in Germany on behalf of our customers. Truth is, we here in the
colonies have a trifecta working against us in regard to the exchange rate. Our
taxes are too high, the Federal Reserve is (and has for several years)
printing and circulating too many dollars because they are deathly afraid of even
the hint of inflation, and the elite's in Congress frivolously spend our
money like it is going out of style.
A point to ponder for us Yanks: According to the Government Accounting
Office, 2004 numbers, one-third of every dollar confiscated from you by the
Federal government in the form of taxes is wasted, stolen or otherwise cannot
be
accounted for. So, efficient they ain't! Think about that the next time you
hear a politico saying he/she wants to raise your taxes!
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN (TN89)
N245E - Flying
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 6
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Subject: | What's up with the cost of 914? |
I think the European builders (and those Americans that have worked so
hard to keep their weight down) should realize that us red white and
blue American builders have heavier planes due to the need for power
steering, power brakes, air conditioning and the 6 disc CD players (plus
of course the fridge to keep diet cokes in) that are standard on all
American Europas - obviously, as Glenn has pointed out, the correct
answer to extra weight is the American hot rod approach - there is no
substitute for cubic inches and extra horsepower -
Tongue in Cheek
Gary Leinberger
A237
Almost ready to put the cockpit module in.
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel
charles
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 1:48 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: What's up with the cost of 914?
It will be particularly interesting to see how Bob's change from the
Jabiru to the Rotax affects the performance and fuel economy of his
aircraft. I think it is the first time we will have such a conversion.
My guess is that the numbers will improve. The use of a gearbox and
liquid cooling should both contribute to better numbers. The Jabiru can
only produce full power at speeds over 3000rpm which is not good
efficiency for the prop. Air cooling (as proved by the automobile
industry) is definitely less efficient than liquid cooling. All this
should translate into better range and/or payload.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
R.C.Harrison
Sent: 06 June 2007 00:08
Subject: RE: Europa-List: What's up with the cost of 914?
Hey! Paul /Graham all
If anyone knows about costs of 914 it's me ! Just settled up for one
and a new Woodcomp prop.!
BTW Paul HP is irrelevant master of all things is the TORQUE output at
the end of the shaft the prop fits to!
And the rate of fuel expenditure !
Looking forward to some real comparison flying or proving all my fellow
fliers have been bullshitting me !
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
Robt.C.Harrison
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
McAllister
Sent: 05 June 2007 23:37
Subject: RE: Europa-List: What's up with the cost of 914?
930 lb for a typical mono ? Well perhaps.
3 years ago I took the weight of 19 completed XS 914T Mono Europa's with
CS props and came up with an average of 865 lbs. Mine came in at 860
lbs and with what I know now I believe I could build it 20 lb lighter.
With that all said, your correct, all the HP you can muster during the
take off phase is highly desirable.
At the risk of sparking a debate, I found the 914 to be a game changer
for the aircrafts performance, but, I state this in the context of my
mission profile. I typically fly 2 legs of 400 nm in the 8000 ~ 12,000'
feet range. At this altitude I see 148 knots TAS with a fuel burn of
5.1 ~ 5.3 US gallons per hour.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Paul
N378PJ
617 hours and still grinning
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of glenn
crowder
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 9:40 AM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Europa-List: What's up with the cost of 914?
Well, its been a real easy lander for me, and I fly a mono
only on hard runways at high
altitudes. No ground loops, no "issues". Weight is identical
to most 914 powered monos with
CS props at 930 lbs. Too much power is just enough! Two up in
the summertime the 912S powered LSA's around my field are total dogs at
this altitude, barely clearing the power lines at the end of the field!
Glenn
- The Europa-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
- NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
--> http://forums.matronics.com
- The Europa-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
- NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
--> http://forums.matronics.com
Message 7
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Subject: | What's up with the cost of 914? |
You forgot the power ashtrays and cupholders, and vibrating seats!
Glenn
Subject: RE: Europa-List: What's up with the cost of 914?Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2
007 12:16:52 -0400From: Gary.Leinberger@millersville.eduTo: europa-list@mat
ronics.com
I think the European builders (and those Americans that have worked so hard
to keep their weight down) should realize that us red white and blue Ameri
can builders have heavier planes due to the need for power steering, power
brakes, air conditioning and the 6 disc CD players (plus of course the frid
ge to keep diet cokes in) that are standard on all American Europas - obvi
ously, as Glenn has pointed out, the correct answer to extra weight is the
American hot rod approach - there is no substitute for cubic inches and ext
ra horsepower -
Tongue in Cheek
Gary Leinberger
A237
Almost ready to put the cockpit module in.
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel charlesSent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007
1:48 AMTo: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Europa-List: What's up wit
h the cost of 914?
It will be particularly interesting to see how Bob=92s change from the Jabi
ru to the Rotax affects the performance and fuel economy of his aircraft. I
think it is the first time we will have such a conversion. My guess is tha
t the numbers will improve. The use of a gearbox and liquid cooling should
both contribute to better numbers. The Jabiru can only produce full power a
t speeds over 3000rpm which is not good efficiency for the prop. Air coolin
g (as proved by the automobile industry) is definitely less efficient than
liquid cooling. All this should translate into better range and/or payload.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mai
lto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C.HarrisonSent:
06 June 2007 00:08To: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Europa-List: Wh
at's up with the cost of 914?
Hey! Paul /Graham all
If anyone knows about costs of 914 it=92s me ! Just settled up for one and
a new Woodcomp prop.!
BTW Paul HP is irrelevant master of all things is the TORQUE output at the
end of the shaft the prop fits to!
And the rate of fuel expenditure !
Looking forward to some real comparison flying or proving all my fellow fli
ers have been bullshitting me !
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
Robt.C.Harrison
-----Original Message-----From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mai
lto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul McAllisterSen
t: 05 June 2007 23:37To: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Europa-List:
What's up with the cost of 914?
930 lb for a typical mono ? Well perhaps.
3 years ago I took the weight of 19 completed XS 914T Mono Europa's with CS
props and came up with an average of 865 lbs. Mine came in at 860 lbs and
with what I know now I believe I could build it 20 lb lighter.
With that all said, your correct, all the HP you can muster during the tak
e off phase is highly desirable.
At the risk of sparking a debate, I found the 914 to be a game changer for
the aircrafts performance, but, I state this in the context of my mission p
rofile. I typically fly 2 legs of 400 nm in the 8000 ~ 12,000' feet range.
At this altitude I see 148 knots TAS with a fuel burn of 5.1 ~ 5.3 US gal
lons per hour.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Paul
N378PJ
617 hours and still grinning
-----Original Message-----From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mai
lto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of glenn crowderSent:
Tuesday, June 05, 2007 9:40 AMTo: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Eur
opa-List: What's up with the cost of 914?
Well, its been a real easy lander for me, and I fly a mono only on hard
runways at highaltitudes. No ground loops, no "issues". Weight is identic
al to most 914 powered monos withCS props at 930 lbs. Too much power is ju
st enough! Two up in the summertime the 912S powered LSA's around my field
are total dogs at this altitude, barely clearing the power lines at the en
d of the field! Glenn
- The Europa-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?Europa-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://for
ums.matronics.com - The Europa-List Email Forum - --> http:/
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB F
ORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Subject: | What's up with the cost of 914? |
I have recently heard of Diesel Air Limited (dair.co.uk) that is said to
weigh in at 93 kg- the site looks fine but has ''UKL on application'' und
er the heading price.
Can anybody enlighten those in the dark about this beast?
Two stroke flat four opposed-pistons, sounds as if could be simple enough
to work well- and noo gearbox...cruising at 2000 rpm, reminds me of my o
ld BSA one pot 500cc, (B33) a put per lightpole in fourth gear or so
Alex, kit 529 in wraps waiting for a good engine, instruments, paint and
the million other minor things like closing wings and fitting the other f
lap and aileron.
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: William and Paul |
Dear Laura,
Pilots like William and Paul don't die. They fly away!
Karel Vranken, F-PKRL
----- Original Message -----
From: Laura Farmer
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 8:49 AM
Subject: Europa-List: William and Paul
Hello all,
May I introduce myself as Paul Sweeting's fiance. On behalf of his
family I would like to thank every one of you for your messages of
condolence and support. They have touched us deeply and reinforced the
message that Paul and William were very well liked and highly thought
of. I personally have found great comfort in them, and I felt I needed
to thank you personally. I have also spoken to a few of you on the phone
and this has helped too - I know it is what Paul would have wanted, he
always wanted me to be involved with his flying and in particular the
Europa Club.
I was fortunate to attend your "Late Christmas Dinner" at Bosworth in
January, and meet at least a few of you. We had a thouroughly enjoyable
weekend. More recently we met up with Paddy, Alastair, another gentleman
I'm sorry I can't remember the name of, and of course William at a DOTH
at my local airport Swansea. It was great to catch up with his friends,
and "talk planes" again.
As Dave Bosomworth has said, Paul contacted him last week to ask his
advice about a Europa he was thinking of buying. Since Paul had met me
last year we had been too busy having fun to progress any further on the
construction of his own kit, and he had reached a point where he was
desperate to own his own plane and take me down to France for lunch !
Every fine day he'd say " It's a great day for flying"... "When can I
buy my plane?, when can I buy my plane?" like a child.
Paul hadn't flown since September, and asked William if he was going
on any "jollies" to take him along with him. William of course did, and
Paul was very excited and looking forward to their trip together. His
family and myself are of course devastated, but we take some comfort
from the fact that Paul passed away doing what he loved. Flying was, as
it probably is to most of you, his passion, and he was an extremely
happy man when he left us.
Incidentally, we are meeting with Diana and her family this evening. I
do not have a date for Paul's funeral as yet, but will post it on here
as soon as I have it. If any of you would like to make contact with me
please do so, it is what Paul would have wanted, he always wanted me to
be as "sociable" as him.
Regards,
Laura Farmer.
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Woodcomp propeller controls |
The recent discussion on propellers has been really illuminating but inevitably
I now realise how little I know about propellers in general.
I had in mind the Woodcomp for our trigear -but inevitably there now seem to be
lots of other props each offering various advantages but no clear winner.
In general terms, could anyone explain the benefits of a three-blade prop over
a two blade, and whether these outweigh the weight penalty?
And, while Im seeking enlightenment, how do the benefits of electric CS props compare
with the hydraulic variety?
Bill
Trigear 465
P.S.
I ordered something from Europa by phone one lunchtime last week and was opening
the package over breakfast the following morning. Credit due for excellent
service methinks!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116936#116936
Message 11
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Subject: | What's up with the cost of 914? |
Jos,
I took my data from the Europa club files for 914 Mono's about 3 years ago.
I am sure that the sample size is bigger now.
I was disappointed that mine came in at 860, I was hoping for about 840
pounds. Some of the things that I could have done better was to put on less
paint and filler, particularly primer.
The welding cable for the battery in the rear was weighted a lot, I think I
should have used CCA cable.
Another thing I wish I had investigated was the weight difference between
aluminum and rubber fuel lines.
Lastly, I have just put in a glass panel. This took out 6 pounds, but if I
had done it from the beginning the panel would have weighted less.
With that all said, I am not about to build another Europa, or rebuild the
one I have, I am having way too much fun flying it.
To answer your question on power settings. I typically fly at 28" @ 5000
rpm at around 8~12,000 feet. I see around 146 ~ 152 knots TAS, depending on
the altitude.
I have done one set of calibrations on the glass panel for TAS and I don't
think its all that far off, however my panel will dump out the following
(and more) parameters to a USB stick:
IAS
GPS ground speed
GPS Heading
Magnetic heading
Pitch
VSI
OAT
Pressure altitude
RPM
MAP
Fuel flow
One of these evenings I am going to fly a bunch of circles at different
altitudes and calculate out the TAS for myself to see if what my panel is
saying is correct or not.
Paul
BTW. I saw a reference to taxi testing. I would encourage you to read my
article in the Europa flyer on the topic of flight testing. After my
experiences my recommendation is not to do taxi testing for the mono.
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: What's up with the cost of 914? |
Jos
Paul is right, don't do any serious taxi testing, unless you still have
a couple of feet of ice on your lake. I guess it's melted by now.
Certainly not on tarmac.
Are you going to make Ivan an offer? (btw I don't think he monitors this
list.) Unless you have a convenient into wind grass runway I don't
recommend you do your own first flight. Otherwise wait till the lake
freezes again and do it on snow.
Paul
have you considered a data logger. My friend Glenn Waters has one in his
amazing Berkut and it's real luxury but we ordinary mortals can't afford
a Pi Systems unit. Shouldn't be too hard for you to do it with a PDA or
Tablet?
Graham
Paul McAllister wrote:
>
> Jos,
>
> BTW. I saw a reference to taxi testing. I would encourage you to read my
> article in the Europa flyer on the topic of flight testing. After my
> experiences my recommendation is not to do taxi testing for the mono.
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Woodcomp propeller controls |
Bill
A three blade prop will balance both mass and yaw forces. A two blade
won't. There will always be a yawing vibration with a 2 blade whenever
there is significant angle of attack. (Downgoing blade sees a different
AoA to Upgoing one)
End result is that in general 3 bladers are smoother than 2 blades.
imho electric is cheaoer than hydraulic but not as fast so electric is
no good for aerobatics.
Graham
Bill & Sue wrote:
> In general terms, could anyone explain the benefits of a three-blade prop over
a two blade, and whether these outweigh the weight penalty?
> And, while Im seeking enlightenment, how do the benefits of electric CS props
compare with the hydraulic variety?
>
> Bill
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: What's up with the cost of 914? |
Alexander
there is a gearbox. It has two crankshafts which need to be geared
together. It's like the old Junkers Jumo (??) engine of WW2 but
horizontal instead of vertical
Graham
Alexander Kaarsberg wrote:
> I have recently heard of Diesel Air Limited (dair.co.uk) that is said to
> weigh in at 93 kg- the site looks fine but has ''UKL on application''
> under the heading price.
>
> Can anybody enlighten those in the dark about this beast?
>
> Two stroke flat four opposed-pistons, sounds as if could be simple
> enough to work well- and noo gearbox...cruising at 2000 rpm, reminds me
> of my old BSA one pot 500cc, (B33) a put per lightpole in fourth gear or so
>
>
>
> Alex, kit 529 in wraps waiting for a good engine, instruments, paint and
> the million other minor things like closing wings and fitting the other
> flap and aileron.
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Graham Singleton
Tel: +441629820187
Mob: +447739582005
Message 15
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Subject: | What's up with the cost of 914? |
Paul
I wish there was some general advice on how to build light. At first,
the builder is led to believe that squeegeeing every drop of epoxy is
important, but I am not so sure if that is as important as painting and
instrumentation. Does anyone have data on how much weight is gained
after finishing and painting?
--- Paul McAllister <paul.mcallister@qia.net> wrote:
> <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
>
> Jos,
>
> I took my data from the Europa club files for 914 Mono's about 3
> years ago.
> I am sure that the sample size is bigger now.
>
> I was disappointed that mine came in at 860, I was hoping for about
> 840
> pounds. Some of the things that I could have done better was to put
> on less
> paint and filler, particularly primer.
>
> The welding cable for the battery in the rear was weighted a lot, I
> think I
> should have used CCA cable.
>
> Another thing I wish I had investigated was the weight difference
> between
> aluminum and rubber fuel lines.
>
> Lastly, I have just put in a glass panel. This took out 6 pounds,
> but if I
> had done it from the beginning the panel would have weighted less.
>
>
> With that all said, I am not about to build another Europa, or
> rebuild the
> one I have, I am having way too much fun flying it.
>
> To answer your question on power settings. I typically fly at 28" @
> 5000
> rpm at around 8~12,000 feet. I see around 146 ~ 152 knots TAS,
> depending on
> the altitude.
>
> I have done one set of calibrations on the glass panel for TAS and I
> don't
> think its all that far off, however my panel will dump out the
> following
> (and more) parameters to a USB stick:
>
> IAS
> GPS ground speed
> GPS Heading
> Magnetic heading
> Pitch
> VSI
> OAT
> Pressure altitude
> RPM
> MAP
> Fuel flow
>
> One of these evenings I am going to fly a bunch of circles at
> different
> altitudes and calculate out the TAS for myself to see if what my
> panel is
> saying is correct or not.
>
> Paul
>
> BTW. I saw a reference to taxi testing. I would encourage you to
> read my
> article in the Europa flyer on the topic of flight testing. After my
> experiences my recommendation is not to do taxi testing for the mono.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Woodcomp propeller controls |
Bill,
I have the SR3000/2W 2-blade with narrow ends and wide root with a lot of
twist. It is now running very smoothly, although I had a lot of problems
initially with vibration, which was due to carbs not well balanced. A
3-blade seems to cancel out a lot of uneven combustion. The instrumentation
was hopeless and I am now installing the Mark Burton controller.
Advantages are: less weight, cheaper, better visibility when feathered for
gliding, less drag, and it comes to you fully assembled ready to bolt on.
There are supposed to be other advantages like high altitude performance,
but have not done any serious testing yet.
Apparently Kim Prout has the best performing prop ? With a weight of 13 1/2
pounds that is half the weight of most cs props.
If you are building a mono, then my prop would be too long for you,
Karl
>From: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Woodcomp propeller controls
>Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 00:56:32 +0100
>
><grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>
>Bill
>A three blade prop will balance both mass and yaw forces. A two blade
>won't. There will always be a yawing vibration with a 2 blade whenever
>there is significant angle of attack. (Downgoing blade sees a different AoA
>to Upgoing one)
>End result is that in general 3 bladers are smoother than 2 blades.
>imho electric is cheaoer than hydraulic but not as fast so electric is no
>good for aerobatics.
>Graham
>Bill & Sue wrote:
>><Billandsue@billbell.co.uk>
>
>>In general terms, could anyone explain the benefits of a three-blade prop
>>over a two blade, and whether these outweigh the weight penalty?
>>And, while Im seeking enlightenment, how do the benefits of electric CS
>>props compare with the hydraulic variety?
>>
>>Bill
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk
Message 17
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This is a test to see why my posts are being stopped by a firewall.
Do not archive
Troy Maynor
N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic
Left to finish:
Paint,(some) interior,engine install, (some) wiring.
Weaverville, NC USA
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: William and Paul |
So sad to hear this about William and Paul. I pray that the families and friends
will find comfort, hold on to the fond memories, and continue with life all
the more vigorously in their stead. They have mounted up with wings as eagles
now.
Troy Maynor
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 19
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Subject: | What's up with the cost of 914? |
Andrew,
I wish I could give you a "one liner" but I can't, although it has been said
that Burt Rutan proposed a test. He said that if you were thinking of
adding something to your aircraft then throw it in the air. If it doesn't
stay there then it probably shouldn't be put on your aircraft.
Seriously though, its a more of a mind set thing. You win the battle by
shaving off grams, not kilograms. Put a 100 grams here, a 100 grams there,
and next thing you have added a kilo or two.
The lightest Europa built was around 730 pounds I believe which was an
amazing achievement. I suspect that the builder just scrutinized absolutely
every thing. The things that add weight are:
- Modifications
- Modifications
- Modifications
- Filler
- Primer
- Paint
- Upholstery
- Constant speed propellers
- Instrumentation
- High redundancy electrical systems.
Some trade offs you choose to have, for example a high redundancy electrical
system (I have one) but, once you talk yourself into one thing its a
slippery slope.
If you want to get specific help, see if you can get a listing of the Europa
weights and contact the builders who have built light aircraft. The
lightest 914 mono I could find was 790 pounds.... I sure wish mine was that
light.
Paul
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Subject: | What's up with the cost of 914? |
Graham,
Essential the GRT EFIS has all of the functionality of a data logger. I am
planning on doing some data collection to nail the Vx and Vy speeds. If
this works the way I think it does I reckon I can collect enough data in one
flight to figure it out.
One cool thing you can do is to do collect data during a flight, run it
though a conversion program to strip out the GPS lat/lon data and feed it
into Google Earth. When you play it Google Earth generates an image as
viewed from the cockpit.... really cool stuff.
Paul
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Subject: | What's up with the cost of 914? |
Jos,
Please read my article on test flying. Honestly mate, its a really, really
bad idea to test fly your own aircraft, try and avoid it if at all possible.
I spent months trying to find someone to test fly mine and I only did it
myself as a last resort. To this day I still would have preferred not to.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Graham
Singleton
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: What's up with the cost of 914?
<grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
Jos
Paul is right, don't do any serious taxi testing, unless you still have
a couple of feet of ice on your lake. I guess it's melted by now.
Certainly not on tarmac.
Are you going to make Ivan an offer? (btw I don't think he monitors this
list.) Unless you have a convenient into wind grass runway I don't
recommend you do your own first flight. Otherwise wait till the lake
freezes again and do it on snow.
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: What's up with the cost of 914? |
Paul, Graham,
No, i won't certainly do the first flight myself. Ivan has kindly agreed
to do that and bring me on type.
As for taxi testing, i don't do fast testing, and only crawled on tarmac.
At least i know that the Winter ASI is working, it showed 20 knots with a
nice headwind. No reaction of the Dynon yet though.
Weight: No vacuum pump, no steam gauges saves a bit. The factory supplied
filler with epoxy was used, about 2 pounds, of which at least half was
sanded away. About a pound of heavier car filler was used for fine
scratches. The painter did a good job, there is still paint left from a
one gallon batch. Added a generator and a second battery, both small. The
interior however is heavier then i would like it to be. I remember Paul's
speckle paint interior, it was looking good and must be much lighter.
Well, i know an area where i can easely save 20 pounds: my owl pot belly
:-)
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
--
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http://www.europaowners.org/kit600
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