---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/11/07: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:00 AM - Re: Rotax Circuit Wiring....... Help would be best and most appreciated ? (Gilles Thesee) 2. 12:33 AM - Re: Rotax Circuit Wiring....... Help would be best and most appreciated ? or ident key would help ! (ivor.phillips) 3. 01:20 AM - Re: Rotax Circuit Wiring....... Help would be best and most appreciated ? (R.C.Harrison) 4. 02:22 AM - Re: Rotax Circuit Wiring....... Help would be best and most appreciated ? or ident key would help ! (Michael Grass) 5. 02:39 AM - Re: Rotax Circuit Wiring (G-IANI) 6. 03:08 AM - Europa for Sale (Sven den Boer) 7. 03:31 AM - Re: Re: builder test flying his own creation? (Graham Singleton) 8. 06:08 AM - Re: Rotax Circuit Wiring....... Help would be best and most appreciated ? or ident key would help ! (R.C.Harrison) 9. 01:30 PM - Re: builder test flying his own creation? (Niels Kock) 10. 01:56 PM - Re: builder test flying his own creation? (Andrew Sarangan) 11. 02:14 PM - Re: builder test flying his own creation? (Graham Singleton) 12. 02:18 PM - Re: builder test flying his own creation? (Mike Parkin) 13. 05:28 PM - Re: builder test flying his own creation? (Graham Singleton) 14. 08:33 PM - Re: builder test flying his own creation? (Tom Friedland) 15. 09:48 PM - Re: builder test flying his own creation? (Fred Klein) 16. 09:48 PM - Re: Rotax Circuit Wiring (R.C.Harrison) 17. 10:11 PM - Re: builder test flying his own creation? (Mike Parkin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:00:57 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Circuit Wiring....... Help would be best and most appreciated ? R.C.Harrison a crit : > > d) two yellow shielded..and go to . ? ( I guess > between the Alternator and regulator but I thought the mag wires > needed shielding which ever they are?) > Bob, I don't know the schematics you are referring to. But, yes the two yellow shielded wires are alternator wires, each of them goes to one of the two G terminals at the regulator (G stands for "giallo", which is Italian for "yellow"). They conduct electricity from the alternator to the regulator. Nothing to do with with magneto wires, which are connected between your mag switch and the special connectors on the Rotax harness. Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:14 AM PST US From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax Circuit Wiring....... Help would be best and most appreciated ? or ident key would help ! Hi Bob Most of the info is in this document, If you need more information give me a call. Regards Ivor _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison Sent: 11 June 2007 05:42 Subject: Europa-List: Rotax Circuit Wiring....... Help would be best and most appreciated ? or ident key would help ! Hi! Guys. Apart from about 6 months getting psyched up about the Rotax and all associated with it I've been a couple of days and have done the temperature and pressure instrumentation connections (or what I haven't done I have no problem over!) NOW I'M BORED AND WANT THIS BIRD BACK IN THE AIR so I can sleep nights without wakening and having brain traumas. However really I'm quite a "bo bo" on electrics except I do have a fair capability with the English language and so am quite able to know that switches and wires all need connecting to indicator lights(some warning) all in an organised plan with positive buzz and negative buzz origins all with suitable fuses etc. (oh ! and momentarily "push to break" buttons too!) and ignition port and starboard "mag switches" grounded at both ends and so on, also.. I have the Europa /Rotax BASIC electrical circuit diagram on which, (in spite of having adequately driven a Jabiru !) is common with my panel set up, so now instead of trawling through pages of Rotax Installation CD all I need is a "paint by numbers" guide as to where a mere hand full of wire "pairs" are supposed to be connected which are all numbered as below. Is there please anyone (Rotax electrically competent!) able to assist me with marrying the blessed wire numbers with what their useful and correct destination should be ? The wire numbers are :- a) .... 10..28 are ...........and go to...... ? b) ......... 11..35 are ...........and go to...... ? c) .... 25..14 are ...........and go to...... ? d) ....two yellow shielded..........and go to ...... ? ( I guess between the Alternator and regulator but I thought the mag wires needed shielding which ever they are?) Oh! and that brings to mind the fact that my mag. switches are already grounded but where do I ground the other end ..when I find the shielding ? Of course wires 19.31.7 and 14..2 all link the turbo waste gate operational motor with the Turbo Control Unit. Rotax were kind enough to have preassembled that ! Here's hoping I get some response this time since I received a stony silence over my previous posting raising the question of "preferable rotational timing" of a three blade propeller to the "top dead centre" position of No 1 cylinder firing stroke ? (on a 4 cylinder Rotax!) Best regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG still sat in the garage after past 12 months and counting ! Robt.C.Harrison ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:20:46 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax Circuit Wiring....... Help would be best and most appreciated ? Hi! Gilles Thanks for the pronto reply, and thanks for the confirmation of the yellow to regulator GG. I'm stuck for identifying the rest (other than spending time (of which I'm short) searching the installation CD. There doesn't seem to be any special Rotax type ends on any of the remaining pairs. Regards Bob H -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles Thesee Sent: 11 June 2007 08:00 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Circuit Wiring....... Help would be best and most appreciated ? R.C.Harrison a crit : > > d) two yellow shielded..and go to . ? ( I guess > between the Alternator and regulator but I thought the mag wires > needed shielding which ever they are?) > Bob, I don't know the schematics you are referring to. But, yes the two yellow shielded wires are alternator wires, each of them goes to one of the two G terminals at the regulator (G stands for "giallo", which is Italian for "yellow"). They conduct electricity from the alternator to the regulator. Nothing to do with with magneto wires, which are connected between your mag switch and the special connectors on the Rotax harness. Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:22:31 AM PST US From: "Michael Grass" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Circuit Wiring....... Help would be best and most appreciated ? or ident key would help ! Bob, The wire numbers are :- a) 10..28 are 12 V Warning light red "Boost" (28 is the positive side and 10 is the negative side) The newest English installation manual has an error here. The older English manual is correct and is also identical with the newest German installation manual. b) 11..35 are 12 V Warning light orange "Caution" (35 is the positive side and 11 is the negative side) For a+b: Caution !!! Do not connect the negative side to ground and do not connect the positive side to +12V bus!!! c1) 25 goes to the aircraft ground bus c2) 1 goes via a 2 amp fuse to your 12 V bus c3) 14 + 2 is for the 2 pole servo isolation switch. The isolating switch has to be installed directly into the lines from the 36 pole plug receptacle to servo motor. Be careful not to change the polarity. Cut firs wire and connect to the switch before you move to the second one. d) two yellow shielded alternator output and go to the G terminals of the regulator. No polarity required but do not connect them together into one terminal? You find very detailed information in chapter 19 of the 914 installation manual. Again, caution with chapter 19.4.10 of the Juli 01/2006 manual. The polarity has been marked wrong in the English translation. Best regards Michael Grass A266 Trigear, Detroit ----- Original Message ----- From: R.C.Harrison To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 12:42 AM Subject: Europa-List: Rotax Circuit Wiring....... Help would be best and most appreciated ? or ident key would help ! Hi! Guys. Apart from about 6 months getting psyched up about the Rotax and all associated with it I've been a couple of days and have done the temperature and pressure instrumentation connections (or what I haven't done I have no problem over!) NOW I'M BORED AND WANT THIS BIRD BACK IN THE AIR so I can sleep nights without wakening and having brain traumas. However really I'm quite a "bo bo" on electrics except I do have a fair capability with the English language and so am quite able to know that switches and wires all need connecting to indicator lights(some warning) all in an organised plan with positive buzz and negative buzz origins all with suitable fuses etc. (oh ! and momentarily "push to break" buttons too!) and ignition port and starboard "mag switches" grounded at both ends and so on, also.. I have the Europa /Rotax BASIC electrical circuit diagram on which, (in spite of having adequately driven a Jabiru !) is common with my panel set up, so now instead of trawling through pages of Rotax Installation CD all I need is a "paint by numbers" guide as to where a mere hand full of wire "pairs" are supposed to be connected which are all numbered as below. Is there please anyone (Rotax electrically competent!) able to assist me with marrying the blessed wire numbers with what their useful and correct destination should be ? The wire numbers are :- a) .... 10..28 are ...........and go to...... ? b) ......... 11..35 are ...........and go to...... ? c) .... 25..14 are ...........and go to...... ? d) ....two yellow shielded..........and go to ...... ? ( I guess between the Alternator and regulator but I thought the mag wires needed shielding which ever they are?) Oh! and that brings to mind the fact that my mag. switches are already grounded but where do I ground the other end ..when I find the shielding ? Of course wires 19.31.7 and 14..2 all link the turbo waste gate operational motor with the Turbo Control Unit. Rotax were kind enough to have preassembled that ! Here's hoping I get some response this time since I received a stony silence over my previous posting raising the question of "preferable rotational timing" of a three blade propeller to the "top dead centre" position of No 1 cylinder firing stroke ? (on a 4 cylinder Rotax!) Best regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG still sat in the garage after past 12 months and counting ! Robt.C.Harrison ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:09 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax Circuit Wiring Bob The diagram that Ivor has sent you is the correct one.. Some of the wires (which you are unlikely to get wrong as they are already connected) are not marked on the diagram. For information here are the rest. These are shown on the wiring harness diagram. I have a very tatty paper copy but have never found a PDF. 12,24,17 and 36 are the serial connection (for setting the throttle etc) 7, 13 and 19 also go to the turbo servo but are not shown on the diagram 3 and 4 are the air box temperature sensor 15 and 27 are the taco connections 5 and 22 are the card air box solenoid 8,20 and 32 go to the throttle position sensor Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:08:30 AM PST US From: "Sven den Boer" Subject: Europa-List: Europa for Sale Very happy with the Europa, but moving to a bigger bird. Description The most beautiful Europa XS Trigear available. Full leather interior. Full avionics. Additional window ventilation, you will not be cooked in this one ! Brandnew Constant Speed prop. Woodcomp SR3000 Airplane time state Airplane and engine 150 hours TT Rotax 912ULS, 100 HP Prop. under 10 hours Interior 9/10 Full leather New XL panel 2005. Exterior 9/10 New paint 2004 Avionics - Horizon - Gyrocompass - Manifold pressure - RPM indicator - Prop constant speed computer. - King GNC250 GPS/Radio - King KTA 76 A TSO Mode C transponder - Flightcom intercom - Tachometer - Garmin GPS 196 Options New constant speed prop . Wingtip Nav/strobe lights Speed Kit Wheel pants Naca air vents and window vents Parking brake Allweather aircraftcover. Collection of spares, rotatables and tools included. Optional roadtrailer for 2000,- Euro's; drive to your nearest airport and fly away in just 30 minutes; save massive money on full size hangaring. See also February 07 issue Aurokurier at aerokurier.de for flight test of this aircraft. Remarks All Mod's, AD's and SB's performed. Mod 72 inspection completed and ok. Always hangared. Fresh annual till 03-2008 Enquiries; mail or call +31-6-54984343 More info at: http://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=6510 Best Regards, Sven den Boer PH-SBR / A168 Bennebroek The Netherlands ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:15 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: builder test flying his own creation? thanks Fred Graham europa flugzeug fabrik wrote: > > > grahamsingleton(at)btinte wrote: > >>In the USA the number of accidents to builders first flighting is depressingly high, (not just Europas) we spend all our waking hours thinking and doing the build and tend to neglect our flying skills. Then we try and fly an aircraft with unknown characteristics which might not even be true to type. > > > This is actually old history. One can take NTSB's raw data file each year and analyze amateur-built accidents by A/C type and airframe hours at the time of the accident. We will first see that around 90% of completions are now kitplanes, and accidents due to mechanical causes are way down. So are pilot error accidents, because these are becoming infrequent with fewer planes with difficult flight characteristics and not enough of them built to get some dual before first flight. > > With kits we have standardization of construction instructions and further support from the kit mfr. We have type-specific support available on the internet. There still are some accidents, mostly due to a builders "better" way of implementing the fuel system or installing a used automobile engine in a poor way. > > Fred F. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117416#117416 > > > > > > > > > > > -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: +447739582005 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:46 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax Circuit Wiring....... Help would be best and most appreciated ? or ident key would help ! Thanks Michael, along with Ivor Phillips you are stars. Problems solved, initiated not only by my apparent inability to understand the instructions but also since I was looking for the mag kill wires which Rotax don't do ! Woops! I must be careful I might give the impression I'm half intelligent on these matters. I've been looking for "bullet" connectors but now have been pointed in the direction of an A4 photo copy of pictures of the replacement for the "bullets"being tiny spade connectors . The photo copy was stapled to the rear of the first prime up of lubrication! REGARDS and thanks Bob H G-PTAG Robt.C.Harrison -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Grass Sent: 11 June 2007 10:20 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Circuit Wiring....... Help would be best and most appreciated ? or ident key would help ! Bob, The wire numbers are :- a) 10..28 are 12 V Warning light red "Boost" (28 is the positive side and 10 is the negative side) The newest English installation manual has an error here. The older English manual is correct and is also identical with the newest German installation manual. b) 11..35 are 12 V Warning light orange "Caution" (35 is the positive side and 11 is the negative side) For a+b: Caution !!! Do not connect the negative side to ground and do not connect the positive side to +12V bus!!! c1) 25 goes to the aircraft ground bus c2) 1 goes via a 2 amp fuse to your 12 V bus c3) 14 + 2 is for the 2 pole servo isolation switch. The isolating switch has to be installed directly into the lines from the 36 pole plug receptacle to servo motor. Be careful not to change the polarity. Cut firs wire and connect to the switch before you move to the second one. d) two yellow shielded alternator output and go to the G terminals of the regulator. No polarity required but do not connect them together into one terminal? You find very detailed information in chapter 19 of the 914 installation manual. Again, caution with chapter 19.4.10 of the Juli 01/2006 manual. The polarity has been marked wrong in the English translation. Best regards Michael Grass A266 Trigear, Detroit ----- Original Message ----- From: R.C.Harrison Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 12:42 AM Subject: Europa-List: Rotax Circuit Wiring....... Help would be best and most appreciated ? or ident key would help ! Hi! Guys. Apart from about 6 months getting psyched up about the Rotax and all associated with it I've been a couple of days and have done the temperature and pressure instrumentation connections (or what I haven't done I have no problem over!) NOW I'M BORED AND WANT THIS BIRD BACK IN THE AIR so I can sleep nights without wakening and having brain traumas. However really I'm quite a "bo bo" on electrics except I do have a fair capability with the English language and so am quite able to know that switches and wires all need connecting to indicator lights(some warning) all in an organised plan with positive buzz and negative buzz origins all with suitable fuses etc. (oh ! and momentarily "push to break" buttons too!) and ignition port and starboard "mag switches" grounded at both ends and so on, also.. I have the Europa /Rotax BASIC electrical circuit diagram on which, (in spite of having adequately driven a Jabiru !) is common with my panel set up, so now instead of trawling through pages of Rotax Installation CD all I need is a "paint by numbers" guide as to where a mere hand full of wire "pairs" are supposed to be connected which are all numbered as below. Is there please anyone (Rotax electrically competent!) able to assist me with marrying the blessed wire numbers with what their useful and correct destination should be ? The wire numbers are :- a) .... 10..28 are ...........and go to...... ? b) ......... 11..35 are ...........and go to...... ? c) .... 25..14 are ...........and go to...... ? d) ....two yellow shielded..........and go to ...... ? ( I guess between the Alternator and regulator but I thought the mag wires needed shielding which ever they are?) Oh! and that brings to mind the fact that my mag. switches are already grounded but where do I ground the other end ..when I find the shielding ? Of course wires 19.31.7 and 14..2 all link the turbo waste gate operational motor with the Turbo Control Unit. Rotax were kind enough to have preassembled that ! Here's hoping I get some response this time since I received a stony silence over my previous posting raising the question of "preferable rotational timing" of a three blade propeller to the "top dead centre" position of No 1 cylinder firing stroke ? (on a 4 cylinder Rotax!) Best regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG still sat in the garage after past 12 months and counting ! Robt.C.Harrison href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronh ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:30:54 PM PST US From: "Niels Kock" Subject: Re: Europa-List: builder test flying his own creation? Hello, Tom. You are right. The ground loop was last Saturday, and my first flight ,which I had no qualms about and which went just fine, was exacty 8 years ago. And your last paragraph is my point exactly, because no matter how extensively your Europa has been test flown by another person, your first flight will still be your first flight. But I think - if I am not remembering wrong - that Graham and Paul Mcallister's poin was that the safest way was to have some experienced hand at your side initially. Niels ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Friedland To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 5:15 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: builder test flying his own creation? Hi Niels I am sorry to hear about your ground loop. I don't understand your regrets about doing your first flight. Evidently that was ok and you had the loop problem on a subsequent flight. Is that correct? If someone else had done the first flight and you flew afterward, would you not have been just as likely to have the aircraft get away from you? What am I missing here? Tom Friedland, A 079, N96V On 6/10/07, Niels Kock wrote: Mike, It just proves that one cannot rely on one's own experience alone, but should benefit from those of others, before opening one's big mouth. The message is that what is true for some is not for others. regards, Niels ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Parkin" To: < europa-list@matronics.com> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 10:14 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: builder test flying his own creation? > > > What I mean is that > 1. All Europas having been cleared by their inspectors will, almost per > definition, be > well behaving when airborne. > 2. I seriously doubt that an eventual accompanying flying-instructor can > prevent a ground > loop if the builder has initiated one. The extra weight of the > instructor only increases the > inertia. > 3. The ongoing horror stories about the proneness of the mono to > groundloop are, I feel, somewhat > exaggerated, and, what is worse, they will unavoidably add to the > likely pre-take off apprehension > of the builder. Which may increase his concentration, but as likely > will deteriorate his flying perfor- > mance. And weeks or months of waiting for the availability of a > suitable test pilot serves > only to increase the apprehension . > 4. Finally, one should not ignore the significance of the marvellous > moment where you yourself take > that blasted, expensive, beautiful toy, gestated, perhaps, in spite of > your wife's silent misgivings, > aloft for the very first time. And,afterwards, having parked and shut > down the engine, can lean back, > shut your eyes and enjoy one of the rare moments in life, where you > are truly in awe. > > > Niels, > > Just goes to show how wrong you can be. You are not the first and you > will not be the last. I didn't test fly my mono, but with a good measure > of overconfidence in a 20 knot crosswind, it bit me also. > > At least you are safe and just have the embarrassment of paying for a new > prop. > > How would you now modify your previous statements -- repeated > above. > > regards, > > Mike > > > > > > > -- Jeg beskyttes af den gratis SPAMfighter til privatbrugere. Den har indtil videre sparet mig for at f=E5 432 spam-mails. Betalende brugere f=E5r ikke denne besked i deres e-mails. Hent gratis SPAMfighter her: http://www.s===================== === ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronic s.====================== ========= ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:42 PM PST US From: Andrew Sarangan Subject: Re: Europa-List: builder test flying his own creation? It appears to me from these discussions that what is needed most is a good transition training program. Perhaps this is something that the Europa company could offer as another source of revenue. I am sure builders would travel to the UK to get this training, but I don't know if the UK regs allow this. In the U.S, transition flight training in an experimental is permitted. --- Tom Friedland <96victor@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Niels > > I am sorry to hear about your ground loop. I don't understand your > regrets > about doing your first flight. Evidently that was ok and you had the > loop > problem on a subsequent flight. Is that correct? > > If someone else had done the first flight and you flew afterward, > would you > not have been just as likely to have the aircraft get away from you? > > What am I missing here? > > Tom Friedland, A 079, N96V > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:27 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: builder test flying his own creation? Niels Certainly I recommend that pilots need to be checked out on a Europa at least once. My other point is that for first flight, because the airplane may not be exactly typical of Europas, a pilot current on type will spot any serious differences straight away, whereas if the test pilot has no Europa experience he may not notice it isn't right. An inspection will not reveal subtle differences in flight characteristics, which could be due to small variations in airfoil profile. Graham Niels Kock wrote: > But I think - if I am not remembering wrong - that Graham and Paul > Mcallister's poin was that the safest way was to have some experienced > hand at your side initially. > > Niels ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:51 PM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: Re: Europa-List: builder test flying his own creation? OK Guys, You can talk your way around this subject until you are blue in the face !!!! I am sure the sense of achievement is enhanced beyond measure - and it is the individual owners own choice. But be very clear, I don't care what your experience is - but if you test fly your own monowheel without a reasonable amount of experience on type you are placing all your hard work at the mercy of your overconfidence/ego. It is entirely up to the individual. Perhaps I am underconfident these days and I have flown a few things between Slingsby Swallow thru Chipmunk on the slow side to F15 on the fast side, and it is very obvious to me and what has happened to different individuals over recent years that an inexperienced europa builder flying his own pride and joy is putting himself and his creation at an increased risk - that's all. Ya pays ya money and ya takes ya chance. (But please do not cause my insurance to increase.) regards, Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Niels Kock To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 9:29 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: builder test flying his own creation? Hello, Tom. You are right. The ground loop was last Saturday, and my first flight ,which I had no qualms about and which went just fine, was exacty 8 years ago. And your last paragraph is my point exactly, because no matter how extensively your Europa has been test flown by another person, your first flight will still be your first flight. But I think - if I am not remembering wrong - that Graham and Paul Mcallister's poin was that the safest way was to have some experienced hand at your side initially. Niels ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Friedland To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 5:15 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: builder test flying his own creation? Hi Niels I am sorry to hear about your ground loop. I don't understand your regrets about doing your first flight. Evidently that was ok and you had the loop problem on a subsequent flight. Is that correct? If someone else had done the first flight and you flew afterward, would you not have been just as likely to have the aircraft get away from you? What am I missing here? Tom Friedland, A 079, N96V On 6/10/07, Niels Kock wrote: Mike, It just proves that one cannot rely on one's own experience alone, but should benefit from those of others, before opening one's big mouth. The message is that what is true for some is not for others. regards, Niels ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Parkin" To: < europa-list@matronics.com> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 10:14 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: builder test flying his own creation? > > > What I mean is that > 1. All Europas having been cleared by their inspectors will, almost per > definition, be > well behaving when airborne. > 2. I seriously doubt that an eventual accompanying flying-instructor can > prevent a ground > loop if the builder has initiated one. The extra weight of the > instructor only increases the > inertia. > 3. The ongoing horror stories about the proneness of the mono to > groundloop are, I feel, somewhat > exaggerated, and, what is worse, they will unavoidably add to the > likely pre-take off apprehension > of the builder. Which may increase his concentration, but as likely > will deteriorate his flying perfor- > mance. And weeks or months of waiting for the availability of a > suitable test pilot serves > only to increase the apprehension . > 4. Finally, one should not ignore the significance of the marvellous > moment where you yourself take > that blasted, expensive, beautiful toy, gestated, perhaps, in spite of > your wife's silent misgivings, > aloft for the very first time. And,afterwards, having parked and shut > down the engine, can lean back, > shut your eyes and enjoy one of the rare moments in life, where you > are truly in awe. > > > Niels, > > Just goes to show how wrong you can be. You are not the first and you > will not be the last. I didn't test fly my mono, but with a good measure > of overconfidence in a 20 knot crosswind, it bit me also. > > At least you are safe and just have the embarrassment of paying for a new > prop. > > How would you now modify your previous statements -- repeated > above. > > regards, > > Mike > > > > > > > -- Jeg beskyttes af den gratis SPAMfighter til privatbrugere. Den har indtil videre sparet mig for at f=E5 432 spam-mails. Betalende brugere f=E5r ikke denne besked i deres e-mails. Hent gratis SPAMfighter her: http://www.s===================== === ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronic s.====================== ========= href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 10/06/2007 13:39 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:06 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: builder test flying his own creation? and Mike knows an awful lot more about flying than most of us! Graham Mike Parkin wrote: > OK Guys, > > You can talk your way around this subject until you are blue in the face > !!!! > > But be very clear, I don't care what your experience is - but if you > test fly your own monowheel without a reasonable amount of experience on > type you are placing all your hard work at the mercy of your > overconfidence/ego. It is entirely up to the individual. > Ya pays ya money and ya takes ya chance. (But please do not cause my > insurance to increase.) > > regards, > > Mike ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:47 PM PST US From: "Tom Friedland" <96victor@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Europa-List: builder test flying his own creation? Mike: " Mike: " But be very clear, I don't care what your experience is - but if you > test fly your own monowheel without a reasonable amount of experience on > type you are placing all your hard work at the mercy of your > overconfidence/ego. It is entirely up to the individual." Ah, yes. That sounds great. Please next tell me where I should get the experience on type... I have searched and not found a single source.. Maybe you will give me experience on type? Tom Friedland A079 N96V On 6/11/07, Graham Singleton wrote: > > grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> > > and Mike knows an awful lot more about flying than most of us! > Graham > > Mike Parkin wrote: > > OK Guys, > > > > You can talk your way around this subject until you are blue in the face > > !!!! > > > But be very clear, I don't care what your experience is - but if you > > test fly your own monowheel without a reasonable amount of experience on > > type you are placing all your hard work at the mercy of your > > overconfidence/ego. It is entirely up to the individual. > > > Ya pays ya money and ya takes ya chance. (But please do not cause my > > insurance to increase.) > > > > regards, > > > > Mike > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: builder test flying his own creation? From: Fred Klein Tom...have you talked w/ Bud Yerly or perhaps Bob Berube? Fred -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:54 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax Circuit Wiring Hi! Ian Thanks for helping with my frustration! Your numbers help close the circle somewhat ..further brain scans likely ! It would have helped if Skydrive had put their photocopy of a picture of connecting the mags to the panel anywhere but stapled to the back of the oil priming documents ! Regards Bob H Robt.C.Harrison -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI Sent: 11 June 2007 10:38 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax Circuit Wiring ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:35 PM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: Re: Europa-List: builder test flying his own creation? Tom, I don't have the solution to your problem. Having just lost 2 friends in a Europa crash, I just want you and everyone in your position to fully understand the risks. It may be that in the end you have no choice but to go it alone, in which case I wish you all the best. There are plenty of experienced monowheel pilots on this forum that can give you advice. regards, Mike. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Friedland To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 4:32 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: builder test flying his own creation? Mike: " Mike: " But be very clear, I don't care what your experience is - but if you > test fly your own monowheel without a reasonable amount of experience on > type you are placing all your hard work at the mercy of your > overconfidence/ego. It is entirely up to the individual." Ah, yes. That sounds great. Please next tell me where I should get the experience on type... I have searched and not found a single source.. Maybe you will give me experience on type? Tom Friedland A079 N96V On 6/11/07, Graham Singleton wrote: grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> and Mike knows an awful lot more about flying than most of us! Graham Mike Parkin wrote: > OK Guys, > > You can talk your way around this subject until you are blue in the face > !!!! > > But be very clear, I don't care what your experience is - but if you > test fly your own monowheel without a reasonable amount of experience on > type you are placing all your hard work at the mercy of your > overconfidence/ego. It is entirely up to the individual. > Ya pays ya money and ya takes ya chance. (But please do not cause my > insurance to increase.) > > regards, > > Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- 10/06/2007 13:39 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.