Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:32 AM - Fw: How can I view PFA Safety Bulletin? (David Joyce)
2. 01:32 AM - Fw: How can I view PFA Safety Bulletin? (David Joyce)
3. 01:32 AM - Re: Fuel Tanks (Jeremy Davey)
4. 01:52 AM - Re: Fuel Tanks (David Joyce)
5. 12:11 PM - Re: Fuel Tanks (Andrew Sarangan)
6. 12:19 PM - Undercarriage Not Retracting (Robert Hatton)
7. 01:19 PM - Re: Undercarriage Not Retracting (Carl Pattinson)
8. 02:26 PM - Re: Undercarriage Not Retracting (Bill and Sue)
9. 02:58 PM - Re: Europa Incident (DaveBuzz@aol.com)
10. 03:43 PM - Re: Undercarriage Not Retracting (karelvranken)
11. 05:16 PM - Europa Incident (Fred Klein)
12. 05:48 PM - Re: Europa Incident (Tom Friedland)
Message 1
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| Subject: | How can I view PFA Safety Bulletin? |
Ron, This was posted yesterday but failed to get through as oversize. Have
removed Page 3 which will follow David Joyce
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: How can I view PFA Safety Bulletin?
> Ron, I attach scanned copies of the two bulletins. In fact they add little
> to the directives just issued as they are largely based on them. The
> original bulletins were issued to inspectors and the culture in the UK is
> such that ordinary mortals cannot readily get hold of them (another thing
> that you do better in the US!) Regards, David Joyce G-XSDJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:11 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: How can I view PFA Safety Bulletin?
>
>
> >
> > Can someone direct this Yank where I can view (or post file):
> > PFA Europa Safety Bulletin 247/FSB-002 dated 18.04.00
> >
> > I took a look at:
> > http://www.pfa.org.uk/index.asp
> > But couldn't find it.
> >
> > It was referenced in:
> > PFA 247/FSB-006 (how to check movement between TP04 torque tube and TP09
> > torque tube drive horn)
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> > Ron Parigoris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | How can I view PFA Safety Bulletin? |
Page 3 herewith.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: How can I view PFA Safety Bulletin?
> Ron, I attach scanned copies of the two bulletins. In fact they add little
> to the directives just issued as they are largely based on them. The
> original bulletins were issued to inspectors and the culture in the UK is
> such that ordinary mortals cannot readily get hold of them (another thing
> that you do better in the US!) Regards, David Joyce G-XSDJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:11 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: How can I view PFA Safety Bulletin?
>
>
> >
> > Can someone direct this Yank where I can view (or post file):
> > PFA Europa Safety Bulletin 247/FSB-002 dated 18.04.00
> >
> > I took a look at:
> > http://www.pfa.org.uk/index.asp
> > But couldn't find it.
> >
> > It was referenced in:
> > PFA 247/FSB-006 (how to check movement between TP04 torque tube and TP09
> > torque tube drive horn)
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> > Ron Parigoris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Message 3
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Andrew,
I think Paul is right. There is a direct parallel in the mechanism he refers
to in the Concorde accident in Paris - there debris hit the very full tank
causing a segment of the wall to be blown out at the weakest point. It might
not have happened had the tanks not been brimmed.
With the Europa tank, what the Land Rover unscientific demonstration tells
us is that the tank can flex hugely without splitting. What any materials
scientist will tell us is that the material will have a limit to the tension
loads it can take: it is possible for a full tank taking an impact to split
in tension; that tension arises because the contents will not allow if to
flex.
Taking your can analogy: fill it with a dense foam (compressible) and throw
it against a wall, hard. It will likely not split. Fill it with liquid and
throw it similarly: it will likely split.
If the above stands scrutiny, it does tell us that brimming the tanks "just
because there is space so I might as well use it" is not always the wisest
policy if that fuel is not required.
Regards,
Jeremy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan
Sent: 18 June 2007 04:01
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Tanks
I am not sure about that theory. It is easier to crush an empty soda
can than a full one. Air is more compressible than liquid. When a full
tank is impacted, the liquid will transfer that energy to all surfaces
with little or no compression. A partial tank on the other hand will
compress until the air inside is squeezed to match the liquid. By then
the tank might have undergone enough bending stress to break it. Again,
just a theory.
--- Paul McAllister <paul.mcallister@qia.net> wrote:
> <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I recall watching Ivan Shaw's impromptu demonstration of a Landrover
> driving
> over a Europa fuel tank.
>
> I remember thinking at the time, wondering if it would fare as well
> if it
> was full of liquid. I suspect that the hydraulic pressure would
> easily
> rupture the tank, no matter what it was constructed of.
>
> I would offer up a hypothesis that a full tank in a Europa that was
> subjected to a high G load would rupture, but one that has had fuel
> burnt
> off would have sufficient airspace in it that could be compressed and
> not
> cause the tank to burst.
>
> Just a theory.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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Paul, Being in the process of building a long range fuel tank at present, I
have had to look out the VLA regs for this, which will be applied by the PFA
before approval. Key requirements are: The tank needs to be able to
withstand a pressure of 24 kPa (about 3.48 lbs/sq. in) without rupture or
leakage. The tank must have an expansion space of minimum 2% of volume. The
tank must be restrained to resist inertial forces in forced landings, etc -
I have not got precise figures to hand but believe this to be to withstand
10g.
3.48 psi may not sound a lot but a tank with a side measuring 18 by
24 ins will need to withstand1503 lbs on that side to give an idea of the
strength required, and a 110 litre tank weighing about 200 lbs full should
have a restraining system of 2000 lbs strength. I wonder whether any system
sitting in the luggage bay can meet these requirements, as opposed to one
sitting in the passenger seat and using the passenger seat belt system as
restraint
Regards, David Joyce G-XSDJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 2:22 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Tanks
<paul.mcallister@qia.net>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I recall watching Ivan Shaw's impromptu demonstration of a Landrover
driving
> over a Europa fuel tank.
>
> I remember thinking at the time, wondering if it would fare as well if it
> was full of liquid. I suspect that the hydraulic pressure would easily
> rupture the tank, no matter what it was constructed of.
>
> I would offer up a hypothesis that a full tank in a Europa that was
> subjected to a high G load would rupture, but one that has had fuel burnt
> off would have sufficient airspace in it that could be compressed and not
> cause the tank to burst.
>
> Just a theory.
>
> Paul
>
>
Message 5
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I think you have a point. I just spoke to one of my students who does
failure analysis of aircraft parts. They have giant machines that pulls
and pushes a part until it breaks, and they take high speed photos
during the process for analysis. He seems to think that the tank being
full or not can go either way depending on the construction. In an
empty tank, the impact will tend to buckle the walls until the
structure collapses. In a full tank the fluid will equalize the forces
on all contacting surfaces, and will cause it to fail at the weakest
point, usually a weld joint. He seems to think that on welded
structures a full tank is probably worse, in agreement with Paul's
message.
--- Jeremy Davey <europaflyer_3@msn.com> wrote:
> <europaflyer_3@msn.com>
>
> Andrew,
>
> I think Paul is right. There is a direct parallel in the mechanism he
> refers
> to in the Concorde accident in Paris - there debris hit the very full
> tank
> causing a segment of the wall to be blown out at the weakest point.
> It might
> not have happened had the tanks not been brimmed.
>
> With the Europa tank, what the Land Rover unscientific demonstration
> tells
> us is that the tank can flex hugely without splitting. What any
> materials
> scientist will tell us is that the material will have a limit to the
> tension
> loads it can take: it is possible for a full tank taking an impact to
> split
> in tension; that tension arises because the contents will not allow
> if to
> flex.
>
> Taking your can analogy: fill it with a dense foam (compressible) and
> throw
> it against a wall, hard. It will likely not split. Fill it with
> liquid and
> throw it similarly: it will likely split.
>
> If the above stands scrutiny, it does tell us that brimming the tanks
> "just
> because there is space so I might as well use it" is not always the
> wisest
> policy if that fuel is not required.
>
> Regards,
> Jeremy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
> Sarangan
> Sent: 18 June 2007 04:01
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Tanks
>
> <asarangan@yahoo.com>
>
> I am not sure about that theory. It is easier to crush an empty soda
> can than a full one. Air is more compressible than liquid. When a
> full
> tank is impacted, the liquid will transfer that energy to all
> surfaces
> with little or no compression. A partial tank on the other hand will
> compress until the air inside is squeezed to match the liquid. By
> then
> the tank might have undergone enough bending stress to break it.
> Again,
> just a theory.
>
>
>
> --- Paul McAllister <paul.mcallister@qia.net> wrote:
>
> > <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I recall watching Ivan Shaw's impromptu demonstration of a
> Landrover
> > driving
> > over a Europa fuel tank.
> >
> > I remember thinking at the time, wondering if it would fare as well
> > if it
> > was full of liquid. I suspect that the hydraulic pressure would
> > easily
> > rupture the tank, no matter what it was constructed of.
> >
> > I would offer up a hypothesis that a full tank in a Europa that was
> > subjected to a high G load would rupture, but one that has had fuel
> > burnt
> > off would have sufficient airspace in it that could be compressed
> and
> > not
> > cause the tank to burst.
> >
> > Just a theory.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Undercarriage Not Retracting |
Has anyone experienced undue stiffness when retracting the mono-wheel
undercarriage, or its absolute refusal to retract? I have experienced this
and I am trying to figure out how to cure the issue. Any ideas?
Robert Hatton
A128 N741JH
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Undercarriage Not Retracting |
I assume the distance between the rubber block upper and lower reaction
plates is correct - ie: 133mm. If it is too small, the undercarriage
will not retract fully or lock in place.
The most likely suspect is that the swinging arm bearings have been over
tightened. If they are too tight you will need to insert shims between
the bearing shells to loosen them up.
You dont say if the retraction mechanism ever worked or if the aircraft
is flying.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Hatton
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 8:18 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Undercarriage Not Retracting
Has anyone experienced undue stiffness when retracting the mono-wheel
undercarriage, or its absolute refusal to retract? I have experienced
this and I am trying to figure out how to cure the issue. Any ideas?
Robert Hatton
A128 N741JH
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Undercarriage Not Retracting |
Yes I had this early on.
After checking all of the mechanism I finally tracked it down to the
lever binding in the slot as it tried to move forward. The lever was not
tight in the slot but I think may have been twisting slightly as I tried
to retract. The cure was to polish the lever and each side of the slot,
squirt in some silicone lubricant and it solved it completely.
Sue & Bill
ZK CHV
XS Mono
914/Airmaster
580hrs
Robert Hatton wrote:
>
> Has anyone experienced undue stiffness when retracting the mono-wheel
> undercarriage, or its absolute refusal to retract? I have experienced
> this and I am trying to figure out how to cure the issue. Any ideas?
>
>
>
> Robert Hatton
>
> A128 N741JH
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2337 (20070618) Information __________
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Europa Incident |
It was with shock that I read the email about Ken's crash on saturday. Such a sad
loss to flying in general and the Europa community in particular, my sincere
condolences go to his family and friends.
dave bosomworth
>
>My condolences go out to the family of Ken Hill. I had the pleasure of
>meeting Ken about 5 years ago when he was in Florida for the Sun N'Fun
>fly-in. I offered to take him up in my Europa which he gratefully accepted.
>We had a great flight and I turned the controls over to Ken. He was an
>excellent pilot and a genuinely nice guy. We'll all miss him.
>
>Garry Stout
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Undercarriage Not Retracting |
Robert,
If your undercarriage worked already well before, than it is perhaps a
lubricating problem of the undercarriage hinges. They are not greased
once and forever. They can only function with regular appliance of some
kind of creap oil.
My personnal experience,
Karel Vranken, # 447 Monowheel F-PKRL.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Hatton
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:18 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Undercarriage Not Retracting
Has anyone experienced undue stiffness when retracting the mono-wheel
undercarriage, or its absolute refusal to retract? I have experienced
this and I am trying to figure out how to cure the issue. Any ideas?
Robert Hatton
A128 N741JH
Message 11
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Dave and Dale,
I offer my most sincere condolences to you and all the friends and
family of Ken Hill and his passenger. Since you two appear to have had
personal relationships with Ken, I hope you will continue to share any
information on the accident with the Europa community.
Fred
>
> After reading about the crash, I called my friend Ken Hill who flies
> out of Livermore. His wife Sandy, who was sobbing, told me it was,
> in fact, her husband Ken who had died in the crash. Ken was a
> terrific guy, former military pilot with a lot of hours. Another
> terrible loss.
> Dale Hetrick
On Sunday, June 17, 2007, at 09:44 AM, David DeFord wrote:
> Mike,
> -
> Ken had long range tanks, which could have been installed at the time
> of the crash.- Here is a description of the tanks, which he posted
> about a year ago:
> -
> The tanks are 6 gal. Evinrude Johnson "Duratank" from the local boat
> dealer. I use quick disconnect fittings from Europa and the pump is
> Facet 40105 from Aircraft Spruce. The tanks are strapped to the wing
> tie bar for restraint.
> -
> I last saw Ken's airplane in his garage about a year ago, not long
> after his return from a long trip, and the tanks were in the airplane
> at that time.- Whether he left them there-at all times, I don't know,
> nor can I comment on the crash worthiness of the tie-downs he used to
> hold them in place.- I am only suggesting that the fire in this
> accident might not be representative of what is likely to happen to
> other Europas in a similar crash.- (Third-hand accounts I have heard
> of the accident say that the impact was nearly vertical.)
> -
> Dave DeFord
> N135TD
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Europa Incident |
A bit of information. Ken was very experienced and an airforce c-130
pilot/instructor. He flew his Europa frequently like once a week.
He took off West into the prevailing wind and to the West there is a large
golf course under the approach to the runway. The crash site is between the
runway and the golf course.
It seems strange. A pilot with his experience and one would think if he had
an engine failure that he would elect the natural emegency site ahead. Can
that mean that there was a control failure or perhaps a sudden medical
cause? We may never know.
Tom
On 6/18/07, Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
>
> Dave and Dale,
>
> I offer my most sincere condolences to you and all the friends and
> family of Ken Hill and his passenger. Since you two appear to have had
> personal relationships with Ken, I hope you will continue to share any
> information on the accident with the Europa community.
>
> Fred
>
> >
> > After reading about the crash, I called my friend Ken Hill who flies
> > out of Livermore. His wife Sandy, who was sobbing, told me it was,
> > in fact, her husband Ken who had died in the crash. Ken was a
> > terrific guy, former military pilot with a lot of hours. Another
> > terrible loss.
> > Dale Hetrick
>
> On Sunday, June 17, 2007, at 09:44 AM, David DeFord wrote:
>
> > Mike,
> >
> > Ken had long range tanks, which could have been installed at the time
> > of the crash. Here is a description of the tanks, which he posted
> > about a year ago:
> >
> > The tanks are 6 gal. Evinrude Johnson "Duratank" from the local boat
> > dealer. I use quick disconnect fittings from Europa and the pump is
> > Facet 40105 from Aircraft Spruce. The tanks are strapped to the wing
> > tie bar for restraint.
> >
> > I last saw Ken's airplane in his garage about a year ago, not long
> > after his return from a long trip, and the tanks were in the airplane
> > at that time. Whether he left them thereat all times, I don't know,
> > nor can I comment on the crash worthiness of the tie-downs he used to
> > hold them in place. I am only suggesting that the fire in this
> > accident might not be representative of what is likely to happen to
> > other Europas in a similar crash. (Third-hand accounts I have heard
> > of the accident say that the impact was nearly vertical.)
> >
> > Dave DeFord
> > N135TD
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
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