Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:55 AM - Re: N81EU incident - the culprit (Richard Holder)
2. 02:29 AM - Re: Tailplane Retention (Trevpond@aol.com)
3. 02:37 AM - Tailplane Recess (Tim Ward)
4. 05:30 AM - Re: N81EU incident - the culprit (CHUCK RHOADS)
5. 08:35 AM - tailplane (danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk)
6. 11:43 AM - Re: tailplane (Tony Wickens)
7. 01:47 PM - Re: Tailplane Retention (Mike Parkin)
8. 03:39 PM - Re: Tailplane Recess (Graham Singleton)
9. 03:41 PM - Re: Tailplane Recess (Raimo Toivio)
10. 03:41 PM - Re: tailplane (Graham Singleton)
11. 04:09 PM - Fuel filters (Raimo Toivio)
12. 04:25 PM - Re: Fuel filters (Graham Singleton)
13. 05:08 PM - Re: Fuel filters (Fred Klein)
14. 05:16 PM - Re: Fuel filters (Fred Klein)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: N81EU incident - the culprit |
Thomas Scherer wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> today I can report with confidence that the reason for
> the power loss in N81EU on Feb 24 was fuel starvation.
>
> I had changed the fuel filter on the main-line the day
> before the incident and as you can see on this
> photograph:
>
> the fuel line was worn (10 year old factory supplied
> original). One strand of the tube did get into the fuel
> filter inlet and restricted fuel flow.
>
> I had sufficient fuel in the line for the take-off
> roll, yet during the early part of the climb-out the
> engine quit.
>
> ~~~~~~~~
>
> I shall later report on the moments right after that
> and the sequence of the forced landing. Would like to
> discuss it with Kim Prout though first to make it more
> authoritative.
>
Thomas
That looks like the original blue cotton covered fuel line.
I have replaced all mine, and indeed so have most here as
the rubber was not good quality and it helped the gas
smell inside.
However your line looks so old and mangy it should be
replaced anyway.
Europa initially replaced this blue cotton covered fuel
hose with a rather nice looking stainless steel covered
hose. It looked good but the rubber was almost as thin as
the blue covered stuff.
At the third attempt they came up with a fuel line which
was much thicker rubber with a strengthener _within_ the
rubber. I am sure you can get it from Aircraft Spruce !
Richard Holder
G-OWWW High Cross
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Tailplane Retention |
Hi Mike,
If we both start swimming now, we should meet up near the reservoir at
Rotheram - I'll be wearing the Red Fins!!!! Best to Jules.
Trev
Message 3
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| Subject: | Tailplane Recess |
Hi Europa Builders from the deep cold south,
In regard to the recent tragic events and the PFA Airworthiness
Information that eventuated from it, I decided to go ahead with a quick
fix to the Tailplane pip-pin recess.
I am one of those 'non compliance' builders with regard to the recess,
using, like many others I think, a circular plastic plumbers end fitting
with a screw top end. See photo. Sent to me by a UK builder back in
1997!!!
This circular recess entered the tailplane touching TP 6 Sleeve with a
screw top lid. I found, to my horror, that the position of the pip-pin
head could just about move the distance of the TP12 bushes if the TP 6
outboard sleeve became loose. I did not have any bid over the TP 6
Sleeve as per the manual. It was necessary therefore to have a backup
and not allow the head of the pip-pin to move at all restraining the
tailplane from moving outwards.
I cut 2 x 16mm diameter aluminium tube to fit over the pip-pin head and
glued those into position to the TP6 sleeve. I established those
positions by wrapping insulating tape around the pip-pin head to
increase their diameter to fit snugly into the tube and installing the
pip-pin in the TP6 sleeve. I put grease on the insulating tape to stop
gluing the pip-pin to the tube just in case. I then filled the
surrounding area within the circular plastic fitting with epoxy plus
flox up to the level of the aluminium tube holding the pip-pin.
On one of the tailplanes I had to use a PVC tube( increasing the
diameter slightly by using black insulating tape, greased the tape,) and
placed it in the TP4 hole to form a circular floor (boundary) up against
the TP4 ceiling where the floor broke through the blue foam to stop flox
running into the TP 4 cavity.
See photos to make better sense. I had another Europa builder visit
today to check it out.He liked it. The tailplanes can now only move
1/2mm before the head comes up against the aluminium tube sides as a
good backup.
Email me if you think you may do likewise and need some help.
Cheers,
Tim
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: N81EU incident - the culprit |
__________________________________________________________
Chuck Rhoads
cfrhoads@yahoo.com
322 Links Dr.
Simpsonville, KY 40067
(502) 410-1357
----- Original Message ----
From: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 3:54:25 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: N81EU incident - the culprit
Thomas Scherer wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> today I can report with confidence that the reason for
> the power loss in N81EU on Feb 24 was fuel starvation.
>
> I had changed the fuel filter on the main-line the day
> before the incident and as you can see on this
> photograph:
>
> the fuel line was worn (10 year old factory supplied
> original). One strand of the tube did get into the fuel
> filter inlet and restricted fuel flow.
>
> I had sufficient fuel in the line for the take-off
> roll, yet during the early part of the climb-out the
> engine quit.
>
> ~~~~~~~~
>
> I shall later report on the moments right after that
> and the sequence of the forced landing. Would like to
> discuss it with Kim Prout though first to make it more
> authoritative.
>
Thomas
That looks like the original blue cotton covered fuel line.
I have replaced all mine, and indeed so have most here as
the rubber was not good quality and it helped the gas
smell inside.
However your line looks so old and mangy it should be
replaced anyway.
Europa initially replaced this blue cotton covered fuel
hose with a rather nice looking stainless steel covered
hose. It looked good but the rubber was almost as thin as
the blue covered stuff.
At the third attempt they came up with a fuel line which
was much thicker rubber with a strengthener _within_ the
rubber. I am sure you can get it from Aircraft Spruce !
Richard Holder
G-OWWW High Cross
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo!
Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
Message 5
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Hi All,
Just been reading an article in the August Flyer. "Ivan Shaw
flying from Dubai to Doncaster" and I wondered if the XL2 has the same
set up for the elevators (tailplane) as our Europa's. Are the elevators
composite or metal? It would be interesting to know if they changed it,
and what changes, if any.
Just a thought
Danny G-c.e.r.i
Message 6
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Hi Danny
Good point. I suspect the XL2 might be significantly different as there was
not the design objective to keep it on a trailer at home. Perhaps someone
can enlighten.
Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 4:34 PM
Subject: Europa-List: tailplane
> <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk>
>
> Hi All, Just been reading an article in the August Flyer. "Ivan Shaw
> flying from Dubai to Doncaster" and I wondered if the XL2 has the same set
> up for the elevators (tailplane) as our Europa's. Are the elevators
> composite or metal? It would be interesting to know if they changed it,
> and what changes, if any.
>
> Just a thought
>
> Danny G-c.e.r.i
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Tailplane Retention |
I am afraid that Jules lost a major sense of humour failure about midday
on monday as the filthy water rose above her ankles in the middle of her
newly decorated dining room.
Oh Gawd!!!!
regards,
Mike
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Trevpond@aol.com
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tailplane Retention
Hi Mike,
If we both start swimming now, we should meet up near the reservoir at
Rotheram - I'll be wearing the Red Fins!!!! Best to Jules.
Trev
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
28/06/2007 17:57
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Tailplane Recess |
Tim
Is it really cold in Christchurch? Cold in UK right now! I reckon all
the 747 vapour trails are reflecting heat out and helping to cool the
planet!
I admit to trying to guess what Andy is thinking but my understanding is
that the object of the proposed exercise is to prevent the pip pin from
pulling through the tailplane structure and uncoupling the drive pins.
This is just a back up in case of failure of the TP6 bush bonding.
I was puzzled by the insistence on a "Minimum" area of BID lay up fore
and aft. However this will be more difficult to pull through the foam
core ( and the skin) than the cylindrical structure many of us have
built. The PFA amendment also insists on a flox corner with the skin, no
doubt for the same reason.
Open to correction?
Any comment Nev?
Graham
Tim Ward wrote:
> Hi Europa Builders from the deep cold south,
> In regard to the recent tragic events and the PFA Airworthiness
> Information that eventuated from it, I decided to go ahead with a quick
> fix to the Tailplane pip-pin recess.
> Cheers,
>
> Tim
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
--
Graham Singleton
Tel: +441629820187
Mob: +447739582005
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Tailplane Recess |
Tim,
I had planned to make something similar
but your plan & realization is much much
more sophisticated.
***
Can somebody there out see anything wrong in it ?!?!
***
If I did my tailplanes again, I should fit also one long
internal sleeve instead of two short ones. Rigging
would be not so irritating event...
Thank you, Raimo
=============
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Ward
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 12:37 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Tailplane Recess
Hi Europa Builders from the deep cold south,
In regard to the recent tragic events and the PFA Airworthiness
Information that eventuated from it, I decided to go ahead with a quick
fix to the Tailplane pip-pin recess.
I am one of those 'non compliance' builders with regard to the recess,
using, like many others I think, a circular plastic plumbers end fitting
with a screw top end. See photo. Sent to me by a UK builder back in
1997!!!
This circular recess entered the tailplane touching TP 6 Sleeve with a
screw top lid. I found, to my horror, that the position of the pip-pin
head could just about move the distance of the TP12 bushes if the TP 6
outboard sleeve became loose. I did not have any bid over the TP 6
Sleeve as per the manual. It was necessary therefore to have a backup
and not allow the head of the pip-pin to move at all restraining the
tailplane from moving outwards.
I cut 2 x 16mm diameter aluminium tube to fit over the pip-pin head
and glued those into position to the TP6 sleeve. I established those
positions by wrapping insulating tape around the pip-pin head to
increase their diameter to fit snugly into the tube and installing the
pip-pin in the TP6 sleeve. I put grease on the insulating tape to stop
gluing the pip-pin to the tube just in case. I then filled the
surrounding area within the circular plastic fitting with epoxy plus
flox up to the level of the aluminium tube holding the pip-pin.
On one of the tailplanes I had to use a PVC tube( increasing the
diameter slightly by using black insulating tape, greased the tape,) and
placed it in the TP4 hole to form a circular floor (boundary) up against
the TP4 ceiling where the floor broke through the blue foam to stop flox
running into the TP 4 cavity.
See photos to make better sense. I had another Europa builder visit
today to check it out.He liked it. The tailplanes can now only move
1/2mm before the head comes up against the aluminium tube sides as a
good backup.
Email me if you think you may do likewise and need some help.
Cheers,
Tim
Message 10
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The tailplanes were designed for easy removal but I don't think it is
identical, looked more complicated and the FAA may have redesigned it
for him!
Graham
danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk wrote:
> <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk>
>
> Hi All, Just been reading an article in the August Flyer. "Ivan
> Shaw flying from Dubai to Doncaster" and I wondered if the XL2 has the
> same set up for the elevators (tailplane) as our Europa's. Are the
> elevators composite or metal? It would be interesting to know if they
> changed it, and what changes, if any.
>
> Just a thought
>
> Danny G-c.e.r.i
Message 11
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All
I have in OH-XRT original Purolator-filters as per manual.
During the very first flight (about 10 hrs) I had an engine quit
situation /fuel pressure
was near 0 and that was at the height of 4000 ft - so no dramatic at
all.
Switching reserve and fuel pump and Rotax was happy again.
Reason: the main filter was full of stuff which was sanding dust
(I sent the sample to the fuel lab). I had changed filters in every two
hours but that was not enough. I was happy about my dual filter system.
Some engine hours later the main filter was broken: Reason for that
unknown,
maybe it was too tight or what so ever. I changed those glass filters to
the
original Rotax filters. Those filters are plastic, one piece, no
O-rings,
throw-away-when-dirt and no possible to assemble wrong way.
I do like them. You can be sure I was happy I have
extra fuel drainages below both seat pans. Just in case.
Otherwise there would have been a fuel bath in the cockpit.
Fly safe and dry...
Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Scherer
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 6:58 AM
Subject: Europa-List: N81EU incident - the culprit
Hi All,
today I can report with confidence that the reason for the power loss
in N81EU on Feb 24 was fuel starvation.
I had changed the fuel filter on the main-line the day before the
incident and as you can see on this photograph:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tosstudio/644899802/"
title="Photo Sharing"><img
src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1252/644899802_5320589274.jpg"
width="500" height="367" alt="culprit" /></a>
the fuel line was worn (10 year old factory supplied original). One
strand of the tube did get into the fuel filter inlet and restricted
fuel flow.
I had sufficient fuel in the line for the take-off roll, yet during
the early part of the climb-out the engine quit.
~~~~~~~~
I shall later report on the moments right after that and the sequence
of the forced landing. Would like to discuss it with Kim Prout though
first to make it more authoritative.
be well - safe Landings
<Thomas, N81EU>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel filters |
Raimo
the best filter imho is an Andair gascolator. Easy to check for
contamination before every flight, which used to be routine.
I do not like the Purolator filters. Easily broken, easily assembled
wrong and easily blocked by debrie.
Grahm
Raimo Toivio wrote:
> All
>
> I have in OH-XRT original Purolator-filters as per manual.
> During the very first flight (about 10 hrs) I had an engine quit
> situation /fuel pressure
> was near 0 and that was at the height of 4000 ft - so no dramatic at all.
> Switching reserve and fuel pump and Rotax was happy again.
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel filters |
I have never been clear on the difference (if any) between a filter and
a gascolator...could someone please enlighten me?
Fred
On Thursday, June 28, 2007, at 04:27 PM, Graham Singleton wrote:
> <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>
> Raimo
> the best filter imho is an Andair gascolator. Easy to check for
> contamination before every flight, which used to be routine.
> I do not like the Purolator filters. Easily broken, easily assembled
> wrong and easily blocked by debrie.
> Grahm
>
> Raimo Toivio wrote:
>> All
>> I have in OH-XRT original Purolator-filters as per manual.
>> During the very first flight (about 10 hrs) I had an engine quit
>> situation /fuel pressure
>> was near 0 and that was at the height of 4000 ft - so no dramatic at
>> all.
>> Switching reserve and fuel pump and Rotax was happy again.
>>
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel filters |
If one uses the Andair gascolator, would it be redundant to install Mod
33?
Fred
On Thursday, June 28, 2007, at 04:27 PM, Graham Singleton wrote:
> <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>
> Raimo
> the best filter imho is an Andair gascolator. Easy to check for
> contamination before every flight, which used to be routine.
> I do not like the Purolator filters. Easily broken, easily assembled
> wrong and easily blocked by debrie.
> Grahm
>
> Raimo Toivio wrote:
>> All
>> I have in OH-XRT original Purolator-filters as per manual.
>> During the very first flight (about 10 hrs) I had an engine quit
>> situation /fuel pressure
>> was near 0 and that was at the height of 4000 ft - so no dramatic at
>> all.
>> Switching reserve and fuel pump and Rotax was happy again.
>>
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
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