---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/28/07: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:55 AM - Re: N81EU incident - the culprit (Richard Holder) 2. 02:29 AM - Re: Tailplane Retention (Trevpond@aol.com) 3. 02:37 AM - Tailplane Recess (Tim Ward) 4. 05:30 AM - Re: N81EU incident - the culprit (CHUCK RHOADS) 5. 08:35 AM - tailplane (danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk) 6. 11:43 AM - Re: tailplane (Tony Wickens) 7. 01:47 PM - Re: Tailplane Retention (Mike Parkin) 8. 03:39 PM - Re: Tailplane Recess (Graham Singleton) 9. 03:41 PM - Re: Tailplane Recess (Raimo Toivio) 10. 03:41 PM - Re: tailplane (Graham Singleton) 11. 04:09 PM - Fuel filters (Raimo Toivio) 12. 04:25 PM - Re: Fuel filters (Graham Singleton) 13. 05:08 PM - Re: Fuel filters (Fred Klein) 14. 05:16 PM - Re: Fuel filters (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:55:53 AM PST US From: Richard Holder Subject: Re: Europa-List: N81EU incident - the culprit Thomas Scherer wrote: > Hi All, > > today I can report with confidence that the reason for > the power loss in N81EU on Feb 24 was fuel starvation. > > I had changed the fuel filter on the main-line the day > before the incident and as you can see on this > photograph: > > the fuel line was worn (10 year old factory supplied > original). One strand of the tube did get into the fuel > filter inlet and restricted fuel flow. > > I had sufficient fuel in the line for the take-off > roll, yet during the early part of the climb-out the > engine quit. > > ~~~~~~~~ > > I shall later report on the moments right after that > and the sequence of the forced landing. Would like to > discuss it with Kim Prout though first to make it more > authoritative. > Thomas That looks like the original blue cotton covered fuel line. I have replaced all mine, and indeed so have most here as the rubber was not good quality and it helped the gas smell inside. However your line looks so old and mangy it should be replaced anyway. Europa initially replaced this blue cotton covered fuel hose with a rather nice looking stainless steel covered hose. It looked good but the rubber was almost as thin as the blue covered stuff. At the third attempt they came up with a fuel line which was much thicker rubber with a strengthener _within_ the rubber. I am sure you can get it from Aircraft Spruce ! Richard Holder G-OWWW High Cross ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:29:54 AM PST US From: Trevpond@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tailplane Retention Hi Mike, If we both start swimming now, we should meet up near the reservoir at Rotheram - I'll be wearing the Red Fins!!!! Best to Jules. Trev ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:37:53 AM PST US From: "Tim Ward" Subject: Europa-List: Tailplane Recess Hi Europa Builders from the deep cold south, In regard to the recent tragic events and the PFA Airworthiness Information that eventuated from it, I decided to go ahead with a quick fix to the Tailplane pip-pin recess. I am one of those 'non compliance' builders with regard to the recess, using, like many others I think, a circular plastic plumbers end fitting with a screw top end. See photo. Sent to me by a UK builder back in 1997!!! This circular recess entered the tailplane touching TP 6 Sleeve with a screw top lid. I found, to my horror, that the position of the pip-pin head could just about move the distance of the TP12 bushes if the TP 6 outboard sleeve became loose. I did not have any bid over the TP 6 Sleeve as per the manual. It was necessary therefore to have a backup and not allow the head of the pip-pin to move at all restraining the tailplane from moving outwards. I cut 2 x 16mm diameter aluminium tube to fit over the pip-pin head and glued those into position to the TP6 sleeve. I established those positions by wrapping insulating tape around the pip-pin head to increase their diameter to fit snugly into the tube and installing the pip-pin in the TP6 sleeve. I put grease on the insulating tape to stop gluing the pip-pin to the tube just in case. I then filled the surrounding area within the circular plastic fitting with epoxy plus flox up to the level of the aluminium tube holding the pip-pin. On one of the tailplanes I had to use a PVC tube( increasing the diameter slightly by using black insulating tape, greased the tape,) and placed it in the TP4 hole to form a circular floor (boundary) up against the TP4 ceiling where the floor broke through the blue foam to stop flox running into the TP 4 cavity. See photos to make better sense. I had another Europa builder visit today to check it out.He liked it. The tailplanes can now only move 1/2mm before the head comes up against the aluminium tube sides as a good backup. Email me if you think you may do likewise and need some help. Cheers, Tim ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:33 AM PST US From: CHUCK RHOADS Subject: Re: Europa-List: N81EU incident - the culprit __________________________________________________________ Chuck Rhoads cfrhoads@yahoo.com 322 Links Dr. Simpsonville, KY 40067 (502) 410-1357 ----- Original Message ---- From: Richard Holder Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 3:54:25 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: N81EU incident - the culprit Thomas Scherer wrote: > Hi All, > > today I can report with confidence that the reason for > the power loss in N81EU on Feb 24 was fuel starvation. > > I had changed the fuel filter on the main-line the day > before the incident and as you can see on this > photograph: > > the fuel line was worn (10 year old factory supplied > original). One strand of the tube did get into the fuel > filter inlet and restricted fuel flow. > > I had sufficient fuel in the line for the take-off > roll, yet during the early part of the climb-out the > engine quit. > > ~~~~~~~~ > > I shall later report on the moments right after that > and the sequence of the forced landing. Would like to > discuss it with Kim Prout though first to make it more > authoritative. > Thomas That looks like the original blue cotton covered fuel line. I have replaced all mine, and indeed so have most here as the rubber was not good quality and it helped the gas smell inside. However your line looks so old and mangy it should be replaced anyway. Europa initially replaced this blue cotton covered fuel hose with a rather nice looking stainless steel covered hose. It looked good but the rubber was almost as thin as the blue covered stuff. At the third attempt they came up with a fuel line which was much thicker rubber with a strengthener _within_ the rubber. I am sure you can get it from Aircraft Spruce ! Richard Holder G-OWWW High Cross Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:39 AM PST US From: "danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk" Subject: Europa-List: tailplane Hi All, Just been reading an article in the August Flyer. "Ivan Shaw flying from Dubai to Doncaster" and I wondered if the XL2 has the same set up for the elevators (tailplane) as our Europa's. Are the elevators composite or metal? It would be interesting to know if they changed it, and what changes, if any. Just a thought Danny G-c.e.r.i ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:43:37 AM PST US From: "Tony Wickens" Subject: Re: Europa-List: tailplane Hi Danny Good point. I suspect the XL2 might be significantly different as there was not the design objective to keep it on a trailer at home. Perhaps someone can enlighten. Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 4:34 PM Subject: Europa-List: tailplane > > > Hi All, Just been reading an article in the August Flyer. "Ivan Shaw > flying from Dubai to Doncaster" and I wondered if the XL2 has the same set > up for the elevators (tailplane) as our Europa's. Are the elevators > composite or metal? It would be interesting to know if they changed it, > and what changes, if any. > > Just a thought > > Danny G-c.e.r.i > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:47:26 PM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tailplane Retention I am afraid that Jules lost a major sense of humour failure about midday on monday as the filthy water rose above her ankles in the middle of her newly decorated dining room. Oh Gawd!!!! regards, Mike do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Trevpond@aol.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:27 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tailplane Retention Hi Mike, If we both start swimming now, we should meet up near the reservoir at Rotheram - I'll be wearing the Red Fins!!!! Best to Jules. Trev ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 28/06/2007 17:57 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:58 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tailplane Recess Tim Is it really cold in Christchurch? Cold in UK right now! I reckon all the 747 vapour trails are reflecting heat out and helping to cool the planet! I admit to trying to guess what Andy is thinking but my understanding is that the object of the proposed exercise is to prevent the pip pin from pulling through the tailplane structure and uncoupling the drive pins. This is just a back up in case of failure of the TP6 bush bonding. I was puzzled by the insistence on a "Minimum" area of BID lay up fore and aft. However this will be more difficult to pull through the foam core ( and the skin) than the cylindrical structure many of us have built. The PFA amendment also insists on a flox corner with the skin, no doubt for the same reason. Open to correction? Any comment Nev? Graham Tim Ward wrote: > Hi Europa Builders from the deep cold south, > In regard to the recent tragic events and the PFA Airworthiness > Information that eventuated from it, I decided to go ahead with a quick > fix to the Tailplane pip-pin recess. > Cheers, > > Tim > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- Graham Singleton Tel: +441629820187 Mob: +447739582005 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:41:16 PM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tailplane Recess Tim, I had planned to make something similar but your plan & realization is much much more sophisticated. *** Can somebody there out see anything wrong in it ?!?! *** If I did my tailplanes again, I should fit also one long internal sleeve instead of two short ones. Rigging would be not so irritating event... Thank you, Raimo ============= ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Ward To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 12:37 PM Subject: Europa-List: Tailplane Recess Hi Europa Builders from the deep cold south, In regard to the recent tragic events and the PFA Airworthiness Information that eventuated from it, I decided to go ahead with a quick fix to the Tailplane pip-pin recess. I am one of those 'non compliance' builders with regard to the recess, using, like many others I think, a circular plastic plumbers end fitting with a screw top end. See photo. Sent to me by a UK builder back in 1997!!! This circular recess entered the tailplane touching TP 6 Sleeve with a screw top lid. I found, to my horror, that the position of the pip-pin head could just about move the distance of the TP12 bushes if the TP 6 outboard sleeve became loose. I did not have any bid over the TP 6 Sleeve as per the manual. It was necessary therefore to have a backup and not allow the head of the pip-pin to move at all restraining the tailplane from moving outwards. I cut 2 x 16mm diameter aluminium tube to fit over the pip-pin head and glued those into position to the TP6 sleeve. I established those positions by wrapping insulating tape around the pip-pin head to increase their diameter to fit snugly into the tube and installing the pip-pin in the TP6 sleeve. I put grease on the insulating tape to stop gluing the pip-pin to the tube just in case. I then filled the surrounding area within the circular plastic fitting with epoxy plus flox up to the level of the aluminium tube holding the pip-pin. On one of the tailplanes I had to use a PVC tube( increasing the diameter slightly by using black insulating tape, greased the tape,) and placed it in the TP4 hole to form a circular floor (boundary) up against the TP4 ceiling where the floor broke through the blue foam to stop flox running into the TP 4 cavity. See photos to make better sense. I had another Europa builder visit today to check it out.He liked it. The tailplanes can now only move 1/2mm before the head comes up against the aluminium tube sides as a good backup. Email me if you think you may do likewise and need some help. Cheers, Tim ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:27 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: tailplane The tailplanes were designed for easy removal but I don't think it is identical, looked more complicated and the FAA may have redesigned it for him! Graham danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk wrote: > > > Hi All, Just been reading an article in the August Flyer. "Ivan > Shaw flying from Dubai to Doncaster" and I wondered if the XL2 has the > same set up for the elevators (tailplane) as our Europa's. Are the > elevators composite or metal? It would be interesting to know if they > changed it, and what changes, if any. > > Just a thought > > Danny G-c.e.r.i ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:40 PM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters All I have in OH-XRT original Purolator-filters as per manual. During the very first flight (about 10 hrs) I had an engine quit situation /fuel pressure was near 0 and that was at the height of 4000 ft - so no dramatic at all. Switching reserve and fuel pump and Rotax was happy again. Reason: the main filter was full of stuff which was sanding dust (I sent the sample to the fuel lab). I had changed filters in every two hours but that was not enough. I was happy about my dual filter system. Some engine hours later the main filter was broken: Reason for that unknown, maybe it was too tight or what so ever. I changed those glass filters to the original Rotax filters. Those filters are plastic, one piece, no O-rings, throw-away-when-dirt and no possible to assemble wrong way. I do like them. You can be sure I was happy I have extra fuel drainages below both seat pans. Just in case. Otherwise there would have been a fuel bath in the cockpit. Fly safe and dry... Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Scherer To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 6:58 AM Subject: Europa-List: N81EU incident - the culprit Hi All, today I can report with confidence that the reason for the power loss in N81EU on Feb 24 was fuel starvation. I had changed the fuel filter on the main-line the day before the incident and as you can see on this photograph: culprit the fuel line was worn (10 year old factory supplied original). One strand of the tube did get into the fuel filter inlet and restricted fuel flow. I had sufficient fuel in the line for the take-off roll, yet during the early part of the climb-out the engine quit. ~~~~~~~~ I shall later report on the moments right after that and the sequence of the forced landing. Would like to discuss it with Kim Prout though first to make it more authoritative. be well - safe Landings ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:03 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters Raimo the best filter imho is an Andair gascolator. Easy to check for contamination before every flight, which used to be routine. I do not like the Purolator filters. Easily broken, easily assembled wrong and easily blocked by debrie. Grahm Raimo Toivio wrote: > All > > I have in OH-XRT original Purolator-filters as per manual. > During the very first flight (about 10 hrs) I had an engine quit > situation /fuel pressure > was near 0 and that was at the height of 4000 ft - so no dramatic at all. > Switching reserve and fuel pump and Rotax was happy again. > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters From: Fred Klein I have never been clear on the difference (if any) between a filter and a gascolator...could someone please enlighten me? Fred On Thursday, June 28, 2007, at 04:27 PM, Graham Singleton wrote: > > > Raimo > the best filter imho is an Andair gascolator. Easy to check for > contamination before every flight, which used to be routine. > I do not like the Purolator filters. Easily broken, easily assembled > wrong and easily blocked by debrie. > Grahm > > Raimo Toivio wrote: >> All >> I have in OH-XRT original Purolator-filters as per manual. >> During the very first flight (about 10 hrs) I had an engine quit >> situation /fuel pressure >> was near 0 and that was at the height of 4000 ft - so no dramatic at >> all. >> Switching reserve and fuel pump and Rotax was happy again. >> > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters From: Fred Klein If one uses the Andair gascolator, would it be redundant to install Mod 33? Fred On Thursday, June 28, 2007, at 04:27 PM, Graham Singleton wrote: > > > Raimo > the best filter imho is an Andair gascolator. Easy to check for > contamination before every flight, which used to be routine. > I do not like the Purolator filters. Easily broken, easily assembled > wrong and easily blocked by debrie. > Grahm > > Raimo Toivio wrote: >> All >> I have in OH-XRT original Purolator-filters as per manual. >> During the very first flight (about 10 hrs) I had an engine quit >> situation /fuel pressure >> was near 0 and that was at the height of 4000 ft - so no dramatic at >> all. >> Switching reserve and fuel pump and Rotax was happy again. >> > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.