---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 07/10/07: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:02 AM - Re-subscribe transmission test.... (R.C.Harrison) 2. 05:38 AM - Re: UK PFA news - Europa safety mods (R.C.Harrison) 3. 06:56 AM - Dynon (josok) 4. 08:03 AM - Classic airfoil twist (Creighton Smith) 5. 09:02 AM - Fw: Oshkosh lunch bunch! (ALAN YERLY) 6. 09:50 AM - Re: Fw: Oshkosh lunch bunch! (Brian Davies) 7. 09:57 AM - Re: Oshkosh lunch bunch (Robert Borger) 8. 12:48 PM - Re: Steorn Orbo free energy motor going live today 6PM London! (Fred Klein) 9. 01:37 PM - Re: Steorn Orbo free energy motor going live today 6PM London! (glenn crowder) 10. 01:54 PM - AAIB Special Bulletin (Laura Farmer) 11. 02:05 PM - Proposed Doth for William (bryan allsop) 12. 02:23 PM - Re: Proposed Doth for William (Steve Pitt) 13. 03:25 PM - Re: Proposed Doth for William (Alan Burrows) 14. 07:41 PM - Re: Dynon (Tony Krzyzewski) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:44 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: Europa-List: Re-subscribe transmission test.... G-PTAG Robt.C.Harrison Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:41 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: UK PFA news - Europa safety mods Hi! David/Andy/Roger Concerning Davids message below and the intentions re:- the aft wing lift pins being replaced and retained by internal nuts... IMHO to invade and so access the location would be less structural disturbance (also cosmetically easier) if the access was made through the wing to flap close out outboard of the main wing closeout/rib thereby preserving the integrity of the upper and lower wing surfaces. Would you kindly ensure that this suggestion is addressed and calculated prior to finalising the access through the wing surface options? Respectfully we were asked for contributions of ideas. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG (almost ready for flight test permit application with the 914 now installed) Robt.C.Harrison -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David.Corbett Sent: 06 July 2007 22:19 Subject: Europa-List: UK PFA news - Europa safety mods Wearing my UK PFA Executive Committee and Europa Club committee hats, I asked Francis Donaldson (PFA Chief Engineer, for those of you overseas who do not know) earlier this week if he could release a progress report on the proposed Europa factory/PFA modifications to be incorporated in UK Europae following the tragic accident to G-HOFC. You will see Francis's reply below. However, before you read it, I must ask you all to consider some other factors which Francis passed to me in a second e-mail, and confirmed by voicemail whilst I was at a funeral this afternoon. 1 We are all aware that UK AAIB are shortly to issue a Special Bulletin about the G-HOFC accident. Francis tells me that this Bulletin is not expected to give any firm conclusion about the accident - investigations are still ongoing into the very complex factors involved - and the Bulletin will basically only draw attention to the Flight Safety Bulletins issued by the PFA (see next paragraph). If the AAIB Bulletin reports as normal "Special's" do, I hope that we will at least be told publicly the scale of the damage/destruction that occurred to G-HOFC, even if no conclusions can yet be given. 2 Some Europae, like mine, have passed the inspections required by UK Europa Flight Safety Bulletins 006 and 007, but are grounded because the tailplane pip pin recesses have not been built to the dimensions in the build manual - in many cases, the dimensions are smaller, especially around the joint between the recess and the upper skin. Owners such as myself are obviously frustrated that we cannot fly but, quite understandably, Francis asks that those of us in a similar position to mine wait for the tailplane pip pin mod to come out, and do not chase PFA Engineering for individual special attention. As we can all appreciate, PFA Engineering have been severely overloaded by the investigations, and the resulting mod design work involved, that arises from this accident, and other PFA aircraft types are suffering as a result of these pressures on PFA Engineering. This situation has not been helped by the sad loss, to a job in Australia, of our recent and excellent recruit to the engineering team, Kerry Ashcroft; so PFA are short of an engineer again. 3 The proposed mods (outlined below) are currently with Europa (2004) Ltd being formatted. There will, of course, be a lead time on the supply of some mod kit parts - especially the longer wing rear pins required for Classic aircraft. I will have a discussion with Roger or John early next week to see whether they are yet prepared to go public as to the timescale for issuing the mod kits. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:48 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Dynon From: "josok" The webserver is dead, is the company ok? Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:23 AM PST US From: "Creighton Smith" Subject: Europa-List: Classic airfoil twist We took over a project and are concerned about airfoil twist. Measured from 3 points: LE root, LE tip, TE root all on the same plane, the TE tip is 0.60 inch elevated (twist) Based on the info in Don Dykins' book (constant 1.5 degree twist) and the formula: Twist (inches)=chordx(sin 1.5deg) We get a spec of 1.0 in twist@40in chord. This gives us about 0.9deg twist. This spec gives me pause and may indeed be dangerous at stall. Remember, we are talking about a classic wing here. What have other classic builders discovered as their actual twist values? What has been done to compensate/remedy the situation? I would hate to have to throw these wings away. Creighton Smith ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:28 AM PST US From: "ALAN YERLY" Subject: Europa-List: Fw: Oshkosh lunch bunch! Subject: Oshkosh lunch bunch! From: Bud Yerly Fellow Europa Builders, For those of you attending Oshkosh, it would be great to have a place to meet and greet as well as having a contact list of those of us attending to facilitate a rejoin. The forum is a great way to get everyone in a discussion group, but lunch is more open and pleasant, and a watering hole in the evening even better. I have talked with a couple of you, and a well used method of joining up was at the message board at about 11:30 local to form up and go to lunch. There we could share ideas and war stories. In the evening we could get together for refreshment to clear the dust of the day (responsibly of course). It would be convenient if we all could list our phone numbers and dates of attendance so we could have a handy reference upon arrival. Tack your name and number down on this email and I will publish a list prior to the show. Name Cell Dates Type Europa Bud Yerly 813 244-8354 24-27 Tri gear Rich Schultz 713-703-2156 21-27 Tri gear John Banhagel 623 628-2774 21-27 Tri gear ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:16 AM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: Oshkosh lunch bunch! You can add me to the list Bud, Brian Davies, cell (UK) 44 792 1083 599, 25-28, Trigear (but I dont think I will fly in :-) ) _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ALAN YERLY Sent: 10 July 2007 17:00 Subject: Europa-List: Fw: Oshkosh lunch bunch! Subject: Oshkosh lunch bunch! From: Bud Yerly Fellow Europa Builders, For those of you attending Oshkosh, it would be great to have a place to meet and greet as well as having a contact list of those of us attending to facilitate a rejoin. The forum is a great way to get everyone in a discussion group, but lunch is more open and pleasant, and a watering hole in the evening even better. I have talked with a couple of you, and a well used method of joining up was at the message board at about 11:30 local to form up and go to lunch. There we could share ideas and war stories. In the evening we could get together for refreshment to clear the dust of the day (responsibly of course). It would be convenient if we all could list our phone numbers and dates of attendance so we could have a handy reference upon arrival. Tack your name and number down on this email and I will publish a list prior to the show. Name Cell Dates Type Europa Bud Yerly 813 244-8354 24-27 Tri gear Rich Schultz 713-703-2156 21-27 Tri gear John Banhagel 623 628-2774 21-27 Tri gear "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Europa-List 17:22 17:22 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:57:44 AM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Europa-List: Re: Oshkosh lunch bunch Bud, As per your request: Tack your name and number down on this email and I will publish a list prior to the show. Name Cell Dates Type Europa Bud Yerly 813 244-8354 24-27 Tri gear Rich Schultz 713-703-2156 21-27 Tri gear John Banhagel 623 628-2774 21-27 Tri gear Bob Borger 817-992-1117 21-27 Monowheel Good building and great flying, Bob Borger ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:48:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Steorn Orbo free energy motor going live today 6PM London! From: Fred Klein Glenn...wuz happenen? > Steorn Orbo: canceled > > Posted Jul 6th 2007 7:10AM by Thomas Ricker > Holy snakeoil Batman, The Steorn Orbo exhibition has been canceled. > According to a press release by Steorn CEO (and lead shyster) Sean > McCarthy, the company "will explore alternative dates for the public > demonstration." Yeah, right. If the heat from the lights was really an > issue for the on-site built device, why didn't they: 1) turn off the > lights, or 2) fly in the so-called working "free energy" device from > Dublin? After all, they still have 9 days left to exhibit. Lame. > On Wednesday, July 4, 2007, at 10:07 AM, glenn crowder wrote: > - Heres the Steorn Orbo free energy motor going live today 6PM London > for a 10 day > 24/7 videocast from four webcams.- The device will be shown lifting a > weight. > Claimed power is .5 watt /cc, good enough for an aircraft engine! > -http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/04/steorns-orbo-free-energy-machine- > demonstrated-tomorrow/ > - > > > See what you=92re getting into=85before you go there. Check it out! ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:37:23 PM PST US From: glenn crowder Subject: RE: Europa-List: Steorn Orbo free energy motor going live today 6PM London! Sure looks like a dud for now anyway! They have a pretty entertaining fo rum. Check out the overunity hamster! http://www.steorn.com/forum/ free energy motor going live today 6PM London!From: fklein@orcasonline.comT o: europa-list@matronics.com Glenn...wuz happenen? Steorn Orbo: canceled Posted Jul 6th 2007 7:10AM by Thomas Ricker Holy snak eoil Batman, The Steorn Orbo exhibition has been canceled. According to a p ress release by Steorn CEO (and lead shyster) Sean McCarthy, the company "w ill explore alternative dates for the public demonstration." Yeah, right. I f the heat from the lights was really an issue for the on-site built device , why didn't they: 1) turn off the lights, or 2) fly in the so-called worki ng "free energy" device from Dublin? After all, they still have 9 days left to exhibit. Lame. On Wednesday, July 4, 2007, at 10:07 AM, glenn crowder wrote: Heres the Steorn Orbo free energy motor going live today 6PM London for a 10 day24/7 videocast from four webcams. The device will be shown lifting a weight.Claimed power is .5 watt /cc, good enough for an aircraft engine! http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/04/steorns-orbo-free-energy-machine-demonst rated-tomorrow/ ============= _________________________________________________________________ Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one pla ce! Find it! http://maps.live.com/?wip=69&FORM=MGAC01 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:24 PM PST US From: "Laura Farmer" Subject: Europa-List: AAIB Special Bulletin Hi All The AAIB have informed us the Special Bulletin will be published on their website tomorrow - not that it tells us anything new I'm afraid. Regards, Laura Farmer ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:45 PM PST US From: bryan allsop Subject: Europa-List: Proposed Doth for William For those who may be wondering if there has been any more progress with the proposed Doth to recognise William's participation in the Europa scene, he re is an update. We will be having one. To allow working members to join in, Paddy Clarke an d I will arrange for it to take place on the first appropriate Sunday. With so many Europas being grounded waiting for something to happen with the pi p pin problem, we cannot be more specific, and the days keep ticking by. We have decided to wait until everyone is flying again before making any more plans. The proposed venue is Shobdon, north of Hereford. This is the a fairly cent ral airfield, close to William's area, and I understand that Paul was a mem ber there. It is likely that Shobdon will be offering a free landing for th e occasion. Regards to all. Bryan Allsop _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine=92s 2007 editors=92 choice for best web mail=97award-winning Wi ndows Live Hotmail. ration_HMWL_mini_pcmag_0707 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:01 PM PST US From: "Steve Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Proposed Doth for William Thank you Brian for the update. I would like to join in as I had been looking forward to DOTHs now that I have my aircraft flying (well at least before this recent grounding). Let me know the date as soon as you are able. Regards Steve Pitt G-SMDH ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:25 PM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Proposed Doth for William Hi Bryan Kate and I get married at the end of July and will then be away in USA and Canada on holiday for most of August, but let us know when the DOTH is scheduled to take place and we do our very best to attend if we are back in the country. If not we will certainly be thinking of you all. Kind Regards Alan _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bryan allsop Sent: 10 July 2007 22:01 Subject: Europa-List: Proposed Doth for William For those who may be wondering if there has been any more progress with the proposed Doth to recognise William's participation in the Europa scene, here is an update. We will be having one. To allow working members to join in, Paddy Clarke and I will arrange for it to take place on the first appropriate Sunday. With so many Europas being grounded waiting for something to happen with the pip pin problem, we cannot be more specific, and the days keep ticking by. We have decided to wait until everyone is flying again before making any more plans. The proposed venue is Shobdon, north of Hereford. This is the a fairly central airfield, close to William's area, and I understand that Paul was a member there. It is likely that Shobdon will be offering a free landing for the occasion. Regards to all. Bryan Allsop _____ PC Magazine=92s 2007 editors=92 choice for best web mail=97award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. HYPERLINK migrati on_HMWL_mini_pcmag_0707"Check it out! "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/ Nav igator?Europa-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 10/07/2007 17:44 10/07/2007 17:44 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:31 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Dynon From: "Tony Krzyzewski" They are back online... but no new software release yet. 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